Well that's 8 hours 34 minutes and 10 seconds so far! Not that I'm counting..... I could do with one but am resisting!!!

Graeme

Hi again, I'm in letter writing mood tonight... I know I won't/can't send it just now but it helps a bit and I thought that one day maybe I could....


W,

Yes another letter! But I haven't written for a while so I hope you'll forgive me!

I just wanted to say a few things, we don't talk much about relationship stuff these days so this seems as good a way as any.

I know you must be worrying about where we go next. Like you, I know that the one thing we can't do is stay in this "no mans land" for ever. Well at the end of the day, whichever way you decide to go, I'm sure will be the right thing for you.

I've done a huge amount of thinking and soul searching the last few months. You don't know this but I have been seeing a councellor for some time, since you gave me the "shock awakening". In the sessions we talk about me, and the things I can do to improve myself, for myself. I know myself so much better now and I really think I am starting to become a better person. I really feel as if I have walked out of a thick fog - one that didn't just last 3 years, but back to when we didn't have problems.

3 years ago you asked if I would go to councelling with you, stupidly I didn't. Now that I know how valuable and helpful it can be I want to say that if you still think it could be useful to us in reaching a decision, then I would love to go.


Go on then - rip it to bits! lol

graeme:

I'm not going to "rip it to bits" - but to congratulate you on working through your "issues."

It's a good thing to look inside yourself, to improve yourself. Whether W ever reads these letters or not (I KNOW you're not sending them!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> is not even at issue. What is the most important thing here is that YOU are doing it, YOU are becoming aware of your "junk" and can see how it wounded your W.

This is all GOOD!!!

Listen, my friend, when I started this journey.....about 3 years ago as well......H was G-O-N-E. I NEVER thought he'd turn around, or let me talk to him about any of this.....

I was learning soooooo much and wanted so desperately to share it with him. I was SO SURE it would open his eyes, and he'd jump right on the bandwagon, and we'd HEAL TOGETHER.

Didn't happen. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It's not that he didn't need it. It's just that - from what I've learned here - couples usually go through "this stuff" at a different pace. Usually one before the other, and the one who's going through CANNOT drag the other with them!! It won't work, and it won't have any effect.

In other words, Till she's ready to look inward, make changes in HER, let herself heal, look back towards YOU, and try to repair your M, there's nothing you can say or do (write her letters) that will push her in that direction.

Graeme, listen, here's what I'm saying. Keep doing what you're doing. I KNOW it seems like NOTHING. It's NOT!! What you're doing is huge. You are healing YOU.

YOU will be a stronger, more confident, capable partner to help fix your M when she's ready to make the turn and come toward you instead of turning away.

You're doing fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless,

It's not that he didn't need it. It's just that - from what I've learned here - couples usually go through "this stuff" at a different pace. Usually one before the other, and the one who's going through CANNOT drag the other with them!! It won't work, and it won't have any effect.

How about giving her just a nudge! lol

YOU will be a stronger, more confident, capable partner to help fix your M when she's ready to make the turn and come toward you instead of turning away.

How will I know when she's ready?

Oh what silly questions - I know already what the answers are. But it's nice to post & chat here!

Graeme

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
<strong>
How will I know when she's ready?

Oh what silly questions - I know already what the answers are. But it's nice to post & chat here!

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

GG/Lupolady, I could do with some thoughts on what's happening....

No worries about me - I'm getting along fine, but I just don't understand what's going on with my W.

Not sure if I said already, I was made redundant 6 weeks ago (no worries it was expected..) so money will become an issue if I don't get another job soon..

Well W should be worried about what will happen with money, and the house, but she never asks anything (remember I still pay the mortgage and give her a decent amount every month.
She never goes out. I'm sure there's no-one else involved.

When we do talk - sometimes it's good, sometimes bad for no particular reason, most of the time she just wants to be on her own I think.

I was in the house with the kids today & I found some writings she does (short prose type things) - now ok I know I shouldn't be looking but who could resist! Anyway, the stuff is very doom & gloom - it smacks of depression to me.

She never takes the kids out (ok they're 14 & 17 and can amuse themselves) but as they've all just been off school/work for a week I would have thought at least a day out??

So of course I want her to want me again, but I'm also worried about her, it looks very much like she has depression to me...

What do you think?
Graeme

How doom and gloom? Are we talking suicide here? It makes a difference. If there's a lot about death and/or suicide, I'd confront her and try to get her help.

If it's just dark, I'd let it go for now. If she's depressed and you confront her, she may pull further away which won't help either of you.

I speak as one who has suffered 3 clinical depressions, not to mention minor shadow depressions.

If you think she's suicidal, you need to ask her directly and get a direct response. This is hard to do. It's scary for both people.The big questions are Are you thinking about hurting yourself? and Do you have a plan? Yes to the first means get help a.s.a.p. A yes to the second means take her to the psychiatric emergency room adn have her admitted.

I know it sounds really drastic but you're not living in the house to get a real sense of the danger. And many suicide attmepts surprise those who live with the victim/perpetrator.

So, I guess the answer is "It depends."

How old is your wife?

Hi, She has just turned 39 - and I know it bothers her, She has said for a long time that one day she will just disappear, and there have been veiled "wish i could just die" comments, but no I don't really think so. She has always said one day she will just disappear, it just sounds like talk to me. The writing is stuff like

- I'm beautiful inside no-one sees it
- The kids are making an awful noise
- My friends are so valuable
- I will get my own pad soon
- I should have gone to the doctor by now

I worry that she does not talk to anyone and seems not to care about anything, if something doesn't get her out of it, then I think she will sink deeper into it.

Graeme

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graeme:
<strong>
I worry that she does not talk to anyone and seems not to care about anything, if something doesn't get her out of it, then I think she will sink deeper into it.

Graeme </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, Graeme.

Can you talk to your kids about how their mother "acts" at home? You need to make sure they understand you are not "spying" on her, but you see her demeanor, and are concerned about her mental health.....

I do agree that she seems depressed, and might even sink deeper into a depression.

Is there a pastor or close friend she might be pursuaded to talk with?

I'm sorry I don't have any words of wisdom for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am still praying for you.

Hi, well the eldest (17) just will not get involved at all. He won't talk about any emotional stuff. I did say to him when they were all off that they should all go out somewhere he just said "she won't go".

The youngest (14) does talk to me, although I do try not to get him involved, as I did too much in the past. However I did ask him not so long ago and he said she was "snappy" and didn't seem to have any feelings about anything.

She does put on a very good front - she has always been very protective of what people think of her. She met the parents of my sons girlfriend the other week and she made a point of saying to me - "they were surprised how happy and bubbly i was" strange thing to say I thought. It was obviously very important to her.

What she would call friends are really just colleagues from work. I doubt very much that she would have talked deeply to them and may resent them trying to talk to her. In any case I only know them very vaguely. She most certainly wouldn't talk to her family - they are 500 miles away anyway, she would listen to her sister, but I'm not her favourite person so I don't even know if she would talk to me! I guess I could call them, but not sure!

I'm trying to think of my options:

- do nothing
- send flowers as you mentioned earlier (might make her smile)
- get my councellor to try and talk to her (although she doesn't know her)
- go and see her colleague at work who she sees as her best friend (I don't know her but I guess I could find her)
- call her sister

Can't think of any others!

Hi, well had a session with councellor today. She thinks definitely depression, although the signs are that it's not at self hurt depth. She thinks it's time I wrote her a letter, and that there's not much I can lose by doing this given the state she's in...

What do you think.

Ok so just in case you DON'T tell me not to write, here's what I'm thinking:

==========================
Yes another letter! But I haven't written for a while so I hope you'll forgive me.
We don't talk much these days and I just wanted to drop you a note.

Something I'm really missing is the communication with you - the times we just sat and talked, I know it's a long time since we could talk really closely, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten what it was like to be your best friend. We used to talk endlessly for hours and hours.

Now that I am seeing a councellor, I really regret not doing as you wanted 3 years ago and going together. I've found the benefits in getting to know myself, the good and the bad, and learning how to do something about it is immense. It really does make me feel that I can walk out of the "fog" and become a much better person.

I have a terrible feeling inside when I think of all the pain you have been through, you are a truly beautiful person and you should not have to have suffered as you did.

I do hope that one day we can make a start on healing the things between us. In the meantime, I'm always about if you need a friend, or even a decent goulash!

=======================

P.S. - yes I'm a good cook and make a great Goulash!!!

Hi, Graeme,

I finally got back around to checking in..........
Let me see if I can shed some light on your letter.

First of all, I think writing a letter now IS a good thing. Of course, I also think it shouldn't be too "heavy." Yup, keep it light and "fun."

Let's have a look at your proposal, and see if it fits the bill:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes another letter! But I haven't written for a while so I hope you'll forgive me.
We don't talk much these days and I just wanted to drop you a note.

Something I'm really missing is the communication with you - the times we just sat and talked, I know it's a long time since we could talk really closely, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten what it was like to be your best friend. We used to talk endlessly for hours and hours.

Now that I am seeing a councellor, I really regret not doing as you wanted 3 years ago and going together. I've found the benefits in getting to know myself, the good and the bad, and learning how to do something about it is immense. It really does make me feel that I can walk out of the "fog" and become a much better person.

I have a terrible feeling inside when I think of all the pain you have been through, you are a truly beautiful person and you should not have to have suffered as you did.

I'm always about if you need a friend, or even a decent goulash!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I only made a few little adjustments, and I think it would be OK. It doesn't put any "pressure" on her, yet tells her you are taking your own responsibility for healing YOU, and becoming a better man, and you are taking on yourself some of the responsibility for some of her unhappiness.

I LIKE IT!!

God Bless,

Hiya, thanks so much for that!

It looks to me like all you did was take out a bit of the last paragraph, is that right? Was that a "pressure" line?

Graeme

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It looks to me like all you did was take out a bit of the last paragraph, is that right? Was that a "pressure" line?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh, yup, it felt like it to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yep, it was pressure. Pressure to "heal" things.

But I think it's good.

Remember, she's not going to react to it. No expectations. None. Zero.

Hi,

Well I also sent it to my councellor, she sent back the following - changes in bold (i hope). Can't say I'm too comfortable with these, but would welcome your opinions...


Yes another letter! But I haven't written for a while so I hope you'll forgive me.
We don't talk much these days and I just wanted to drop you a note.

Something I'm really missing is the communication with you - the times we just sat and talked, I know it's a long time since we could talk really closely together , but that doesn't mean I have forgotten what it was like to be your best friend. i remember so well we used to talk endlessly for hours and hours.

Now that I am seeing a councellor, I deeply regret not doing as you wanted 3 years ago and going together. I've found the benefits in getting to know myself, the good and the bad, and learning how to do something about it is immense. It really does make me feel that I can walk out of the "fog", redirect myself and become a better, and a more understanding person.

I have a terrible feeling inside when I think of all the pain you have been through, you are a truly beautiful person and you should not have to have suffered as you did. I am so sorry W.

I do hope that one day it might be possible to heal things between us, that there might be a chance together.
I'm always about if you need a friend, or even a decent goulash!

Graeme,

GO WITH YOUR GUT. Do what feels right to you. Don't worry about what counselor thinks. You know what your W likes or doesn't like, or will accept or won't.......

But remember what GG said, NO ExPECTATIONS!!! This is most important of all. You've got to go into this with absolutely NO expectations that your W will suddenly OPEN HER EYES and turn completely around and come running back, all forgiven.

This is a process, albeit a strange, twisted and L-O-N-G one! It all takes time.

God Bless,

What you mean I won't be able to move back in 5 minutes after she reads it ???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks again, I know that some of the councellors stuff just shouldn't be in there, even to me I can see that it is a "pressure" letter, and one of the things I read everywhere is not to say sorry.

So I will go with the version we came up with!

The most I expect from it is that she will be surprised that I am getting councelling and it may plant a seed to help her out of her depression.


Graeme