Lupolady - wow!

Hey it's amazing how some thoughts on a board like this can lift your spirits so much. I had been thinking along those lines myself, and yes allowing myself a bit of hope again knowing that things have changed. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

She's already told me that she's broken it off, but as you say I know how easy it would be to continue contact, I thought I would give her another week (because I won't see her on her own much till MUM goes away) then bring it up again and force through the ABSOLUTELY no contact point. It also gives her a couple of weeks since it happened to think it through. Although I know his name, I actually don't know any more. No doubt I could find out but I must say I'd rather stay well away from him. What amazed me was the lack of reaction or grief from her having supposedly finished it.

As far as the backing off goes, so many times over the last few months, I've proved that if I back away, she comes and gets me, not that she notices what's happening of course. I never get closer because when I give in (as I do every time!) she just backs away again. I know it's right to force the issue and yes I think I can do that although I have to think really carefully about how to do it (yes please more advice!!).

My one worry is that she just goes completely into herself. I think she is very close to a breakdown right now. It's so obvious that she's in "victim" mode that I need to be really careful to break her out of that and not send her deeper into it.

<small>[ January 01, 2005, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: graeme ]</small>

Hi I am new here. I've posted once here and once in GQII. I haven't really gotten any responses. Is anyone here willing to help? D/D-Lonely Christmas
GQII-WH moved on, What next for me?

Ok so the plan at the moment is this ...

I'm going to ask her to meet me in a neutral space (a bar or something). I'm going to ask if there has been any contact with the OM. Whatever she says I'm going to ask for her cell phone. I will take his number and call him there and then. I'll tell him to disappear or he'll be explaining it to his W. I'll use my phone & if he then rings her I'll give him the biggest fright of his life.

Then I am going to tell my W that it's time we both sorted out our lives, that she needs to be able to move on and be happy, and that I too need to stop hoping for a reconciliation. Being friends won't work we're either married or we're not. I will tell her that my one dream has been that we start on the recovery process to being a happy couple again, however long that takes, but that if she can't commit to that then I will have to file the papers. I'm not going to spend yet another year hoping in vain.

I know it's really critical I get the right words together as I see this as my last chance. I'm not good with words so I'm going to spend time writing out what I want to say and learning it.

Must say I'm terrified that I get the answer I don't want & have to carry it through, but I think in the long term we both have to get out of this nightmare.

Any help or thoughts would be very welcome (even if you think I should have given up a long time ago! I need the truth not encouragement)

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: graeme ]</small>

(duplicate post)

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: graeme ]</small>

Hi,i have been following your post for sometime now,still not sure if i should reply cause im pretty new myself.

IMO,i would get the om phone number another way besides asking your wife for it.

I would also build up as much love units as possible before going into plan B.Even if she doesnt respond well to you trying to fill her EN to fill up her love bank,at least she will remember how hard you tried to make her happy when you do go to plan B.

The other man is married so IMO weather you expose there affair or not,the relationship will never really go anywere,and you doing plan b,she may relize that the other man isnt worth pursuing anymore and she may relize how much shes misses you and all you do for her.Hope i kinda made sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Maybe im wrong here,but IMO exposing her affair to the om wife isnt a good idea because you were the one who caused your marriage to be were it is today,you exposing A may cause your wife to lose even more trust and see you as more controlling.I would let her end it in her own due time.

Like i said om is married,That A isnt going to go any farther or he would have left his marriage already.I just dont have a good feeling about you telling OM wife about the Affair only because of the way everything turned out in your marriage.I would feel different if your situation were different, like if W had been the one who left you and lived with another man.

I would try to fill her love bank for a certain amount of time,Then go to plan B if you see no results to plan A.

But I would not bring up OM,she already said she didnt want to make marriage work,so you bringing up him to her will probly make her feel mad ,lost of trust,being controlled, this can be what she may think and feel and may even say to you, "you have alot of nerve after what you put me through,and you have no right to interfer".
That is JMO in how she may think or feel,B/C i probly would if my H did me wrong.
I really hope your wife oneday forgives you and wants to work on you marriage.

I hope I really made sense,sometimes i confuses myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> sorry hit wrong key

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Amanda,P,33 ]</small>

Hi Amanda,
Firstly just let me thank you for your thoughts. I value others opinions on this very much. I don't think it makes any difference how long you have been on this board, all of us have experience of life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>IMO,i would get the om phone number another way besides asking your wife for it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know his name is on the computer in the house (and it's not a common name) so I can easily get his details "undercover" so to speak. Are you saying this because you think I should not let my W know that I have contacted him? I do feel it's critical that I stop this dead in the water.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I would also build up as much love units as possible before going into plan B.Even if she doesnt respond well to you trying to fill her EN to fill up her love bank,at least she will remember how hard you tried to make her happy when you do go to plan B.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been trying that for the best part of 2004, we did have a few very pleasant days together at Christmas. I do realise that the OM has been around all that time, and has provided a lot of her needs. I do agree that it may be different with him out of the picture. One of my concerns was whether or not I should "wait and see".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>The other man is married so IMO weather you expose there affair or not,the relationship will never really go anywere,and you doing plan b,she may relize that the other man isnt worth pursuing anymore and she may relize how much shes misses you and all you do for her.Hope i kinda made sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Maybe im wrong here,but IMO exposing her affair to the om wife isnt a good idea because you were the one who caused your marriage to be were it is today,you exposing A may cause your wife to lose even more trust and see you as more controlling.I would let her end it in her own due time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have absolutely no intentions of telling his W. I have no wish at all to cause his W to enter this nightmare! - And of course the last thing I want is for her to throw him out and make him a free man!

What's your gut feeling about my story - is there hope?

Thanks again

<small>[ January 03, 2005, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: graeme ]</small>

graeme,HI again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[QUOTE]I know his name is on the computer in the house (and it's not a common name) so I can easily get his details "undercover" so to speak. Are you saying this because you think I should not let my W know that I have contacted him? I do feel it's critical that I stop this dead in the water.

graeme,I understand you want this to stop dead in the water.But IMO I just feel that you contacting OM will really piss your wife off to were she may resent you for it b/c of how you have caused her pain and everything else from the past.She may feel it is none of your business b/c she told you she just wanted to be friends.

All this may do is push her farther away,and she may feel that you are causing the relationship with this om to end sooner then she may want,which then she will resent you and push her away even more.

I feel that if the relationship is still going on with the OM,you should stay out of it, as hard as it may be.Let her find out for herself that the relationship is something that will not go any farther than the way it is now.That way she cannot blame you for the way the A turns out.

I feel this way only b/c you were the one who ended the marriage to begin with,and i dont mean that to sound mean.I just mean you shouldnt exspect her to turn her life around the way that you want it to be,and exspect her to end an A b/c you want this marriage to work out.She waited for you for 3 yrs.She may not be ready to end the affair or work on the M.She has a right to feel that way.

[QUOTE] I've been trying that for the best part of 2004, we did have a few very pleasant days together at Christmas. I do realise that the OM has been around all that time, and has provided a lot of her needs. I do agree that it may be different with him out of the picture. One of my concerns was whether or not I should "wait and see".

graeme, Your were trying to fill up her love bank and trying to fill her EN while she was with the OM.SO then nothing you did worked.Now he may be out of the picture I would try it all over again.Fill up her love bank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you find out he is still in the picture I would go on to plan B.As i Stated before if you do plan B,she will relize that the OM is never going to fully commit to her and she will remember how hard you tried to fill her needs,she will probly miss you and all that you do for her.


IMO,during her A with OM she seemed to keep you close,and when you wouldn't
call or go over to her house she seemed to want you to come in and talk or whatever,So to me she dont want to let you go.But at the same time didnt know how the relationship with OM was going to turn out.

I would try plan A again,see how she response to it.If it not the results you want,go to plan B.

If the affair is over with OM,give her time to withdraw,Then go to plan A.

I wish i could tell you how this would all turn out.

Just be patient alittle while longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


ps,How do you make lines to separeate the quotes and paragrahs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>graeme,I understand you want this to stop dead in the water.But IMO I just feel that you contacting OM will really piss your wife off to were she may resent you for it b/c of how you have caused her pain and everything else from the past.She may feel it is none of your business b/c she told you she just wanted to be friends.

All this may do is push her farther away,and she may feel that you are causing the relationship with this om to end sooner then she may want,which then she will resent you and push her away even more.

I feel that if the relationship is still going on with the OM,you should stay out of it, as hard as it may be.Let her find out for herself that the relationship is something that will not go any farther than the way it is now.That way she cannot blame you for the way the A turns out.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where I am confused. Most of the other advice I have had says I need to get it out and stopped right away. We are still married and when I asked before if there was anyone she said no. So at the very least she has lied to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>graeme, Your were trying to fill up her love bank and trying to fill her EN while she was with the OM.SO then nothing you did worked.Now he may be out of the picture I would try it all over again.Fill up her love bank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand you perfectly, and half of me thinks the same way, but again, a lot of the advice I get says strike while the iron is hot... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If you find out he is still in the picture I would go on to plan B.As i Stated before if you do plan B,she will relize that the OM is never going to fully commit to her and she will remember how hard you tried to fill her needs,she will probly miss you and all that you do for her. IMO,during her A with OM she seemed to keep you close,and when you wouldn't
call or go over to her house she seemed to want you to come in and talk or whatever,So to me she dont want to let you go.But at the same time didnt know how the relationship with OM was going to turn out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks - that's exactly how I see it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Just be patient alittle while longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the really hard one. Of course I know the answer is to work on myself, but easier said than done!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>ps,How do you make lines to separeate the quotes and paragrahs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now to the important stuff!
When you "quote" a post, you will notice that it starts with "quote" in square brackets, and ends with "/quote" in square brackets. The "/" is the "off" command. Similarly "qb" and "/qb" are used for bold - everything in between the 2 commands are in bold.

If you want to split up the quote, then you have to add these at the start and end of each section. Use preview to see what it looks like..

graeme,thanks i will try to do what you said for my quoteing,if it doesnt work,then i guess i didn't understand,lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where I am confused. Most of the other advice I have had says I need to get it out and stopped right away. We are still married and when I asked before if there was anyone she said no. So at the very least she has lied to me

Now remember this is JMO,I feel if your M was fine and one day you relized she has been cheating with OM then I would agree to expose affair.

Your case is different,You are the one who left,moved in with another woman,caused your W much pain and her hopeing to work out the M for 3 yrs.
You relized you wanted to make M work,Your W didn't feel the same anymore,told you she did't want to work M out and only wanted to be friends.

To me the only thing your wife has done to you was lie about OM.She did't cheat on you b/c you were no longer a couple.So there for I feel you have no right to expose anything,To me it will cause more harm then good.

Wife lied to you cause she probly felt ashamed b/c om is married,and maybe she did't want you to find out cause she knew it was't gong to last with om.She was enjoying being wanted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand you perfectly, and half of me thinks the same way, but again, a lot of the advice I get says strike while the iron is hot...

Be patient,fill the love bank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Remember,she didn't cheat on you,it may feel that way,but it's not the case.
You need to treat your situation the way it is.

How can you exspose an A when you were't cheated on?

Why exspose to cause her resentment towards you,or to seem controlling?

Your exsposer may come across to her as you saying to her"your going to bemine oneway or another no matter who i have to hurt to get you" Again controlling,isn't that one of her complaints to you that you were controlling?

Like i said if A is over with OM,she maybe going through withdraw,give it a while and do plan A.

She waited 3yrs for you,its your turn to wait for her if you want your M to work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks, all of that makes a lot of sense. Oh I don't know what to do anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If I could only see that she wanted things to improve then time would not be a problem at all.

WoW I made sense,lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ,I thought i was going to confuse you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Keep us updated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm totally confused

lol, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

i guess the only way to see if she wants the M to work out will be how she response to plan A.

EXCUSE ME!! HELLOOOO!!!!!!!

Graeme,

PLEASE!! We had this "talk" just this week-end. You had a plan, a good plan. Don't go getting all confused now!

Amanda, begging your pardon, dear, but -
You've only been at this what? A month? There IS a method to this system. Dr. Harley has followed the marital "messes" of literally hundreds of couples for many, many years; and he's come up with this system that this website is based on.

Have you read the Concepts? Have you ordered any of the books? There really are important concepts to follow, which have tried and true results.

I understand what you are telling graeme about his W and her OM, vs. graeme and what he did to lead to this turn of events. But, Amanda, here's the thing: Regardless of why graeme is in this mess, the fact of the matter is that his w IS having an A with OM, and graeme is now the one who is seeking to repair the damage created by him. Graeme's W going out and finding OM is NOT OK.

Two wrongs don't make a right. In this case, greame's W has NO RIGHT to be seeing someone else(as I don't believe they are div'd). If she wants to "move on" without him, then I'd suggest they go through w/a div. first. At that point, she would be free to see anyone else (although M'd men still wouldn't be fair game).

Graeme, my advice to you at this point would be that you look for another way to find OM's phone # (as per Amanda's advice), but my other advice to you stands as I wrote it the other day. Get on with Plan B, man.

BTW - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have absolutely no intentions of telling his W. I have no wish at all to cause his W to enter this nightmare</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with this statement. Graeme, think for a moment....

Her H is having an A with your W. She IS in this nightmare...... Would you want someone to "spare" you that bright spot at an otherwise incredibly dark time? Or would you want them to break this kind of news to you while having something positive to add to it? I would truly consider calling her anyway, simply to give her survival skills for what she is going to encounter when she finds out (and she will, you know it).

Go back and re-read Harley's concepts pages. It's all clearly defined in there.

I'm behind ya either way, my friend. I KNOW this is a terribly, horribly confusing time....a time for worrying about a possible misstep which might impact the whole rest of your life. Although I don't truly believe it's all that critical......but I do believe we think it's that critical while we're passing through it.

Take care my friend.

lupolady,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Amanda, begging your pardon, dear, but you only been hear about a month-

[QUOTE] I understand what you are telling graeme about his W and her OM, vs. graeme and what he did to lead to this turn of events. But, Amanda, here's the thing: Regardless of why graeme is in this mess, the fact of the matter is that his w IS having an A with OM, and graeme is now the one who is seeking to repair the damage created by him. Graeme's W going out and finding OM is NOT OK. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok,to me graeme has been separated for a few years now b/c of his doing,right?
How is W having an A if they are separated?

She already told him she didnot want to continue to be married right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Two wrongs don't make a right. In this case, greame's W has NO RIGHT to be seeing someone else(as I don't believe they are div'd). If she wants to "move on" without him, then I'd suggest they go through w/a div. first. At that point, she would be free to see anyone else (although M'd men still wouldn't be fair game </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No two wrong do not make a right,i agree.
And I agree she shouldn't see anyone until D is finale if thats what they choose to do.


All I was saying to greame was what his wife maybe thinking. I also told him everything i was saying was JMO.

I feel you were a little rude to state that since i only been here a month that im not as good as anyone else to state my opions.

I didnot tell him to do anything,Just gave him MO.

And at this time I donot feel he shouls ask his W for the OM phone number,or call the OM.If you read my replies I state why It may do more harm then good.

His W at this time maynot see it as cheating b/c H already betrayed her and ended the M 3yrs ago.

Im just trying to see things through his wifes eyes.Im not trying to tell him what to do or how to go about it,im just stateing MO.

Yes i have read for months all of concepts,orderd a few books,yes i am new,but i feel i am able to post MO just like anyone else.

greame knows in his heart what he feels,and his is the only one who sees his W reactions to him to know weather he should confront her about om or just go to plan A.

please lets get along <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wow! Don't fight over me now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's true we're not divorced. Any time the subject has come up my W has said "there is no us", and consistently said she does not want a divorce (and wouldn't agree to one).

She met the OM when we were "half" together (I don't know the extent of it but there were lots of emails before we went off for a week in NYC), so I don't have any doubt she was in the wrong.

She is in denial that it was any more than a good friend (probably to herself as much as me). I'm not even sure that she thinks it's wrong (except that he's M'd).

My worries about confronting OM are that she already told me that she ended it so if she knows I have contacted him then to her mind I am showing lack of trust in her and trying to control her life.

I must say that at this moment in time I want to sit down with her and say that enoughs enough it's time we were both free and that it's time we moved on, and with the D. I have not spoken to her since I called to say happy new year at midnight on the 31st.

But who knows what will be in my mind tomorrow!!

I can do nothing till her mum leaves on friday anyway, so plenty time to continue the debate! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

lupolady,I forgot to add something in last post.

greame stated when he first told his wife that he wanted to make M work and told her how he made a mistake,He also stated he thought she may have been seeing someone.Wife told him she wasn't,he belived her.Now he thinks along she has been seeing OM,even before he told her that he wanted to work on M

So she didnot go out and look for om after greame wanted to make M work.OM has been in the picture the whole time while he was doing plan A.

BTW i think you give awsome advice and i know im new.You are probly better giving advice then I am. I just see that his wife may look at the situation different.She may not see it as cheating since to her they have been separated for a couple of years.

I am sorry if i came off alittle upset,But i felt i was being attack for giving MO after i stated a few times thats all it was is MO,and did state that I was new.

I will not give anymore of MO if it will cause trouble or harm to anyone.

Greame good luck to you,I will pray for you and you wife to work things out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I will no longer post b/c maybe i may be giving bad advice.
lupolady has been giving you great advice,so im sorry to have intruoded.

Amanda,

Please carry on posting. I'm sure lupolady would agree that there is no right or wrong way for these things - oh how I wish there was!! Discussion on these subject is helpful to us all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amanda,P,33:
<strong> lupolady,I forgot to add something in last post.

greame stated when he first told his wife that he wanted to make M work and told her how he made a mistake,He also stated he thought she may have been seeing someone.Wife told him she wasn't,he belived her.Now he thinks along she has been seeing OM,even before he told her that he wanted to work on M

So she didnot go out and look for om after greame wanted to make M work.OM has been in the picture the whole time while he was doing plan A.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is definitly the case. I know they were in contact before I asked her and before i got into plan A.