Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
I've been married for 29 years. About 14 years ago I discovered my spouse was having an affair with a man with whom she was intimate prior to our marriage. I called him and was told that she told him that I beat her. I pretty much got over that affair and what I believed was a subsequent affair in which she was visiting a single man in his apartment and leaving our three pre-teen children sitting in the vehicle in the parking lot at 1:00 AM.

Three and a half years ago I realized she was having an internet relationship with another old boyfriend with whom she was intimate before we met. I called her on it before it was consumated but she went down to the HS reunion and spent the weekend with him anyway. I confronted her when she returned and she told me that "God had changed her and shown her that what she did was wrong. Nine months after that I discovered she was still in contact with him and was now trading suggestive emails with another man from HS who was married and had a child. I also suspect at least one other affair but have no evidence.

She accumulated over 30k in credit debt and as recently as last October I caught her on the internet at 1:30 AM and lying about it. She logged off before I could see what was going on.

She has lied regularly and repeatedly. She is still claiming that she had changed but after 3-5 affairs, financial irresponsibility, and a total lack of respect, I have lost all desire and committment to her. I believe she is still using me and claims to want to work it out are because the subject of her latest affair does not want her. I'm down to being her 2 choice at best. I've filed for divorce simply as a matter of self-preservation and self respect. Can someone like this ever be trusted?

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
I lived through a very similar situation in my first marriage and discovered that a multiple affair unfaithful spouse is usually a very sick person that is in need of therapy to address unresolved pre-marital issues before he/she is well enough to be in a committed relationship. Your marriage can't heal until she accepts that she is sick and seeks professional help.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
Well, guess what TMCM..this is my BH (canttrust her) posting the previous message.
As you have responded to my posts also, you have seen what I have previously written and that I have asked for help and advice on how to save my marriage. I can assure you that I have been and am still seeking professional help and working through all of this with God's help and many Christian friends prayers and support also. I have been in counseling for over a year now and have also coached with Steve.
Because I was honest and told my betrayed husband what I was doing on the computer and told him that Steve suggested that I use this site for support...now...it is being used as a sounding board against me for him to seek approval for filing for divorce. He has not told you everything about me going to counseling and seeking help for our marriage and that he will not go with me. I am doing everything I know to save our marriage.
He has not told you that I have been making huge deposits in his Love Bank without expecting or receiving any in return. I know that I have hurt him deeply and have been doing everything I know to repair, restore and rebuild our marriage.
I am very upset that he has come on here and has used the same assumptions and accusations from the past to plead his case and will not do anything himself to move forward to healing our msrriage. I

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
Well, guess what TMCM..this is my BH (canttrust her) posting the previous message.
As you have responded to my posts also, you have seen what I have previously written and that I have asked for help and advice on how to save my marriage. I can assure you that I have been and am still seeking professional help and working through all of this with God's help and many Christian friends prayers and support also. I have been in counseling for over a year now and have also coached with Steve.
Because I was honest and told my betrayed husband what I was doing on the computer and told him that Steve suggested that I use this site for support...now...it is being used as a sounding board against me for him to seek approval for filing for divorce. He has not told you everything about me going to counseling and seeking help for our marriage and that he will not go with me. I am doing everything I know to save our marriage.
He has not told you that I have been making huge deposits in his Love Bank (for 3 years)without expecting or receiving any in return.

I know that I have hurt him deeply and I have been doing everything I know to repair, restore and rebuild our marriage with the help of pastors, counselors, praying and supportive friends and family.

I am very upset that he has come on here and has used the same assumptions and accusations from the past to plead his case and will not do anything himself to move forward to healing our marriage.

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 42
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 42
It really sounds like you guys need to talk to the counsel about sexual addiction. It appear to me that both are really hurting and if either of you really wanted out you would not be here. I suspect that the wife was sexually abused as a child and has some clear issues about intimacy and confusing sex for love. Just a thought hey.

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 67
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 67
MHD, unfortunatly, once you've established yourself as a chronic liar and cheat, your credibility is shot. I think you need to wake up to the possibility that he may never trust you again. And without trust, a successful marriage is impossible, and the situation is utter hell for the betrayed spouse.

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
can'ttrusther and MyHeartsDesire,

I am going to post this same post on both of your threads, and I am going to warn you now...I doubt if either one of you is going to like this.

There is one thing that is glaringly obvious about BOTH of you, and that is that neither one of you presented a full, complete, and honest picture of what is going on. can'ttrusther, you made your pursuit of divorce more justifiable by printing all the affairs but completely leaving out the last three years worth of the WS going to individual counseling and marriage counseling and trying to save the marriage. And MyHeartsDesire, you LB'ed right in front of us. You lied by omission about have FIVE affairs, not just one 14 years ago and one lately. Furthermore, you have taken a place where your H--the spouse you betrayed repeatedly--came to talk to others who were also betrayed--and you threadjacked his topic and publicly "corrected" and probably discouraged him from ever coming on here and learning any of the concepts or anything. This is now an UNSAFE place for him to write his real feelings, because any time it is not matching YOUR reality, he is now going to be publicly LB'ed by the wife that says she's trying to save the marriage.

SOOOooo...with all that in mind, I suggest that you two GET REAL with yourselves and with us, and tell the whole, entire truth. can'ttrusther, it is clear to me that whether she had two affairs or five, you feel REPEATEDLY violated and betrayed, and despite saying, "please don't do this, it hurts me and harms our marriage" she continues to do the things that betray you and then say "but I want to stay married to you.' And MyHeartsDesire, it is clear to me that you are minimizing the depth of the hurt and betrayal that your actions have caused to your husband, and if you really want to remain married, I would suggest that ON YOUR OWN, of your own willingness to become a better woman and person, you consider:
1) pulling the plug on your computer and taking a sledgehammer to it so that you never, NEVER, NEVER get another email or get tempted by the PC again.
2) going to SLAA--Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous--because you obviously have issues relating to continuously turning to other men for your "love" fix.
3) being completely, transparently honest with your partner and ALLOW him to see anything you ever do on the PC (before you destroy it of course), allow him to see your cell phone and bills, allow him to know your schedule and where you are and with whom, and always take a witness so that you can live uprightly and beyond reproach--avoiding even the APPEARANCE of something wrong.

can'ttrusther, if you truly believe she has cheated on you emotionally, if not physically, five times, I do not blame you for not trusting her. However, I would say that 30 years is a lot of time invested to end it without a fight from you. This means that you have to change too. Speaking as a BS myself, you do have some responsibility in this relationship, and part of your vows when you became husband and wife was a promise that you would consider her as you make decisions, that you would meet her needs, that you would spend time with her and protect her. Are you doing those things? What are her emotional needs? Could she be turning to those OM because she gets NO emotional needs met at home? Yes, she ultimately makes the decision to stray, so don't think I'm putting her responsibility on you--but it makes common sense that if she's treated like a doorknob at home and desperately WANTS to have those needs met at home, but she's continuously rejected, LB'ed, and spurned at home--eventually she'll go elsewhere.

Both of you take your eyes off yourself for a moment at look at your partner. You promised to love, honor, and cherish that person. Ask your own self if your actions (past and PRESENT) are actions that are demonstrating love, honor, and cherish. If they are not, then sincerely repent, get things right with God and then get things right with your partner. Accept the consequences of your choices to be unloving, dishonorable, and disrespectful and if ya did the crime, do the time! Then, CHANGE YOUR SELF. Stop waiting for your partner to change or for some miracle--change yourself. can'ttrusther, meet ONE of her needs and tell her you are doing it!!! MyHeartsDesire, start ACTING in ways that are trustworthy and OPEN.


CJ

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
to FaithfulnewCJ..what you don't know isn't on this thread..
I have been posting on here and did not want to start defending myself on this thread. I am trying to save our marriage.
I have been open and honest and have been doing everything I know to save our marriage.
Several things that my betrayed husband has said on here are assumptions and not true.
He has always been suspicious and accusatory through out our whole marriage. If a guy even looked at me..I was accused of flirting.
Again, I am not on here to defend myself to you.
You do not know the whole story...
I have been trying to restore trust and rebuild and restore our marriage.
I have been going to counseling for over a year.
I have not hidden my cell phone bills. I have been letting him see what I do on the computer..because of my honesty, he has now gotten on here and is using it against me and using it as a platform for his justifying his decision for a divorce and not being totally honest about me having 5 affairs (those are only in his imagination)
Also, the part about being on the computer...well he did not tell the whole story there either.

After reading Dr Harleys site..I know we have both NOT been meeting each others emotional needs.
I am going to respond to all of his accusations and assumptions on here.
It is sad that he has chosen to come here to say these things that are not all entirely true, yet, he will not go to counseling with me to restore our marriage and learn how to fix what is wrong and lacking in our marriage.
I do hope and pray that God will soften his heart and open his eyes to see that he can heal and restore and fix our marriage with help.
I am praying for restoration and healing in our marriage.
I know God can heal and I hope and pray that others will join me support of healing and pray for us.
Thank you for your prayers.....

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
MyHeartsDesire:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MyHeartsDesire:

"now...it is being used as a sounding board against me for him to seek approval for filing for divorce."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MHD,

Notice that I said:

"Your marriage can't heal until she accepts that she is sick and seeks professional help."

I still stand by it and I am glad that you have been getting professional help to resolve your personal issues.

But just as you are accusing your H of omitting things about your story, you also omitted to us on the Infidelity General Questions II board the fact that you had a previous affair when you posted on the Infidelity General Questions board. Why did you do that? Except for your H, can'ttrusther, nobody her knows your name, where you live or what you look like. What were you risking in not being totally forthright with a bunch of strangers like us? It seems that you still have some ways to go before you make honesty one of your highest priorities in your relationships.


can'ttrusther

I'm in no way defending MHD but she has made a conscious choice to save and rebuild the marriage, not it is your turn to decide once and for all if you want the same. Your W's affairs are inexcusable but aren't you also in a way getting the benefits of marriage [sex and companionship] without making a committment to it [stating to her for the past 3 years that you want to divorce her]? Even though you were the BS, your choice to continue to sit on the fence is much akin to what many WS do when they are having an affair [have their cake and eat it to]. It's time to make a choice.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 6,950
MyHeartsDesire

If its true what your H said about you incurring 30K in debt then I humbly suggest that you pay off that debt yourself. It is not fair that your H should be the one left footing the bill for a debt he did not approve or assumed. If you do this, then it just may one less negative against you that your H will feel resentment over.


can'ttrusther

Oh one last thing, you state that you don't trust her and how she racked up a 30K debt yet it SEEMS that when it comes to sex you have no trouble at all trusting her with your first wealth, your health.

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
MHD,

You say you have been making big deposits in your H's love bank. I would say you may be doing things that SHOULD be or you FEEL SHOULD BE big love deposits but from the tone of his post, they were not. That is the point of you two doing a needs questionaire, so that you KNOW how to make the correct deposits with the correct currency.

Your H said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has lied regularly and repeatedly. She is still claiming that she had changed but after 3-5 affairs, financial irresponsibility, and a total lack of respect, I have lost all desire and committment to her. I believe she is still using me and claims to want to work it out are because the subject of her latest affair does not want her. I'm down to being her 2 choice at best. I've filed for divorce simply as a matter of self-preservation and self respect. Can someone like this ever be trusted? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What part of the first sentences is NOT true? But, more importantly did you read the part I put into bold? He is not here justifying, he is TELLING you why he has filed for divorce. He feels he is your "2 choice at best." And he feels you don't respect him. He concludes with a question and a very good one I would say. "Can someone like this ever be trusted?"

He is afraid MHD, pure and simple he is afraid of you. This post was NOT an attack on you, it was a cry for help. Your response did not address any of this, and so I have a question for you.

Do you pay as much attention to your H at home as you did his post here? If the answer is yes, then no wonder he wants a divorce. You have NOT faced what you have done to him. You have not paid attention to the things he is saying. You are too busy defending yourself, when in actuality he has just given you a huge amount of information and a lot to talk about.

Please reread his thread. Whether you had 5 Affairs or "just" two, the point is that he doesn't feel he can trust you, and I would say that one of the reasons is that you don't listen to him and validate his feelings, suggesting that you are NOT focused on him, but simply looking good...hence the strong defense against what was not an attack but only a statement of feelings and fear.

Please stop and think about this. Please see if you can talk to him about this.


And Can'tTrusther, the best money and time you will ever spend will be with Steve Harley. You have questions very reasonable questions. Talk with him about this. Make sure you are divorcing because you and Steve Harley think "she cannot be trusted". He is not a marriage at all costs type of person and he can help you alot, so that if you do divorce much of the baggage you have will be left with this marriage and your next relationship and perhaps marriage will be much better.

Frankly, CTH, the counseling with Harley will do you more good than it will do your W. Actually, it is described more like "coaching" than counseling. He is not going to put you on the virtual couch and take you back to your childhood. HE is going to deal with what you are facing RIGHT NOW.

And to answer you real question...Yes, someone like this can be trusted IF they really address their issues. You being there and talking to the Harley's will help assure that they are addressed and THEN you can make your decision with a clear conscience.

I hope both of you really really thing about what this thread has indicated to each of you.

God Bless,

JL

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11
TooMCM,JustLearning, CMTS1964and FaithfulNewCJ
Thank you so much for all your help and advice.

I do want to respond to a few things with an aching, repentive, humble heart...
To start off..I was not trying to mislead or mis-inform anyone of my situation or past.
I came on here initially to seek some quick advice and input. I realize I didn't go into a lot of detail in my first post. I was mainly asking for immediate help and advice.
I am sorry that anyone has felt I was being misleading. That was not my intention.
I did not go into all details regarding my past, but, I did attempt( after seeing what others had posted )to put my status on my signature line.
Still wan't sure if I did it right or not, but I tried. I'm still trying to learn what all the abbreviations mean... : )

Yes, I did accrue debt without my husbands knowledge. What BH did not tell you was that I have also taken full responsibility for that debt.

Everything that BH posted has been over 3 years ago.

I did lie about things in the beginning of discovery. Those are the "repeated lies" BH is referring to. Again, that was over 3 years ago.

With the exception of my lying about being on my laptop(yes, that was 1 yr ago) I am not going into a long explanation here. I will only say that the only thing I am guilty of was initially lying about being my laptop. I was not conversing or communicating with any one else. I knew (because of past experience with BH )that I would be accused of that, even if I wasn't, so, I didn't want him to see me on my computer. Again, the only thing I was guilty of was lying initially about being on the computer..period.
I immediately felt sick inside and said I was sorry for lying. But, I knew he would assume that I was talking to someone and I knew he accuse me of doing something wrong, even if I wasn't.

BH will not let go of the past and work to move forward to healing and restoring and rebuilding.
He has been holding on to all of this and will not go to counseling. What you are seeing is his 3 + years of hurt and not moving on to healing.

I do not take his hurt lightly. I know I have put a deep wound in him and it will take time to heal. My heart hurts everyday, and I can not stop feeling sick inside, thinking about the pain I have caused my husband and our family. I have been doing everything I can for the past 3 years to heal his wound.

Through my own healing process over the last few years and counseling, I have come to realize that all of my actions have been done from trying to meet my "emotional needs".
Yes, even the spending $$$.

I do not have any sexual addictions.
My actions were a result of emotional needs and weaknesses.
I did come from a very dysfunctional family and learned behaviors that were not appropriate and accurate for a committed,loving relationship.
I am not making excuses at all for any of my actions. I take full responsibility for all my actions.
I guess you would say that I finally grew up...or I have come to an awakening and realization to what the problem was and what I needed to do to change my behaviors from the past.
I have been going to counseling, seeking help from other Christian mentors and peers, and being accountable for my time, actions, etc. and staying in God's word and praying daily.

In response to the comment that my BH made regarding being 2nd choice..
I want to clarify. That is my BH's assumption.
I am the one that ended and broke off the relationship from the OM. I am the one that chose my husband and family over OM.
I want with all my heart (hence my login-MyHeartsDesire,from Psalm 37:4) to repair the damage I have done. I want to heal the deep wound.
I know I can not change the past.
I do know that I can change the future.
I do know that I can do everything possible to heal the wound and rebuild the trust
that my husband has lost in me.
It has been over 3 years that all of this has happened and I have been doing everything possible to heal our relationship.

I had just recently discovered this website, from the advice of my counselor about looking at the book, "His Needs, Her Needs".
I have been reading alot of the information on the MB website and I do believe that our marriage can be saved.

Thank you for your support and prayers for healing in our marriage....
Psaml 37:4

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
MHD,

You said somethings I thought I would respond to. I would hope that your H will come back as I think we need to talk as well.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In response to the comment that my BH made regarding being 2nd choice..
I want to clarify. That is my BH's assumption.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it is his assumption MHD. And it is the assumption he will go with until something displaces it. You need to accept that this is how he feels, and you need to ask him why. Then ask him is there something you could do to remove that "feeling" from him. You see the art of this is understanding HIS needs and meeting them as HE would like them met. It is a common flaw in all of us to assume that our needs are their needs and that they would like it if we met them as WE would like them met.

You really need to validate his feelings. I am sorry actually does not do this. While it is a good thing to say, it does not address that his pain, his needs, his fears ARE REAL to him. He fears you MHD.

It seems that while you have spent 3 years trying to get things back in order, he has not healed. Perhaps it won't there are people that cannot get beyond the pain and the fear. But, most do better if they feel they are being heard, respected, and validated.

Comments such as "I am sorry", "I love you", "I have always loved you" do not address what I was talking about in the previous paragraph. Do you see what I mean??


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am the one that ended and broke off the relationship from the OM. I am the one that chose my husband and family over OM.
I want with all my heart (hence my login-MyHeartsDesire,from Psalm 37:4) to repair the damage I have done. I want to heal the deep wound.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MHD, I believe your are sincere. Clearly you have done good things with regard to ending it. But, don't forget there was more than one affair, how many is subject to debate. That is damaging to your H's faith in himself. You don't seem to understand, but the problem here is very likely that he has no "faith" that he can be a good enough husband to you, to prevent this from happening again, short of just being your slave, and he is probably not sure that will work. Here is where you understanding him, and where he is coming from will help.

He needed a plan and thus he came up with one: to divorce you. Perhaps you and he can come up with another plan and postpone the divorce. If you do decide to do this, be specific, not the general stuff. I will do this... I won't do this... You will do this... and you will do that...

Do you see what I am talking about?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I can not change the past.
I do know that I can change the future.
I do know that I can do everything possible to heal the wound and rebuild the trust
that my husband has lost in me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah! MHD, just remember he also lost his trust in himself. He KNOWS he cannot tell if you are in an affair. He KNOWS he is not good enough to keep you happy. He KNOWS he feels like a fool for trusting you, because he "should" have known.

Those things he KNOWS are what are hanging him up. That is my guess. These things can be addressed one by one if you have a detailed plan that recognizes these or other issues, and then some action for the two of you is decided upon. Here is where a counselor like Steve Harley can help.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It has been over 3 years that all of this has happened and I have been doing everything possible to heal our relationship.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it has been three years and he has hung in there, but something has made him give up. I think he has not seen you smile enough. I think he has not had you listen to him enough. I think his fears have not been addressed. I think his hope has not been restored.

Now all of this is not on you, but you can help him if you can get him to talk with you. This time listen. You see your reaction to his posts sort of illustrates what concerns me. It was not an attack, and frankly the details of the number of affairs is not as important as there was more than one, and one went undetected for years. Yet, you called him on the details. He needs absolute honesty from you, he has been checking, and he is NOT convinced. But he could be if you will quit defending, quit apologizing so much, and start to be his friend. Start to listen to him and work with him on things.

I may be too late, but even if it is this effort will help you a lot and it will help him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had just recently discovered this website, from the advice of my counselor about looking at the book, "His Needs, Her Needs".
I have been reading alot of the information on the MB website and I do believe that our marriage can be saved. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do to, but he needs to give you some time to really understand what is here and learn to use it. He may not be willing as he feels time is moving along, but even if he proceeds with the divorce, you can work on this with him, even after divorce you can. It is possible.

I would like to suggest that you look up "hopeful_person" (I think I recall her name). She had a 4 year affair and her divorced her. She continued to work to restore the marriage and after over a year and a half, after the divorce, she did. It is a painful story but it might offer you some insight. Look it up I think it is in the "recovery" section or in the GQII section.

Keep working on this and keep posting, and see if your H will come back. Whether he stays or goes he needs to address some things in counseling. He has been pretty battered by a lot of this and he needs to heal in order to be happy (with or without you).

God Bless,

JL

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 600
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 600
MHD

I hope you continue to read Marriage Builders material, and I hope you will get professional help for yourself, even if your husband doesn't choose to go.

One person can't save a marriage.

Where your husband's feelings are concerned, I don't think you have a clue about what is going on inside him. If you read Dr. Harley's articles on infidelity, you will find that he describes it as the absolute worst form of spousal abuse. I am, among other things, a betrayed spouse. You are just starting, you haven't really even scratched the surface yet. Your writing seems to me to be an exercise in minimization and denial.

There are no quick fixes. There is no instant recovery. What you say you want to accomplish could take years.

MHD, you can't change other people, the only person you can change is yourself.

<small>[ September 16, 2004, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Bumperii ]</small>

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
C
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
I'm pretty impressed with the insight provided by some of those contributing. For the most part you're right on the money. I still don't think I want to stay with her. Unfortunately I hate the idea of getting divorced. I don't know if its that or a fear of going out on my own that kept me here this long. I'm no spring chicken. One of my big hurdles is that during a counseling session subsequent to the first affair I was told that she never loved me and married me on the rebound from an old boyfriend who happened to be the object of her affection during the first affair. First of which I'm aware anyway. I don't have a desire to commit to her or provide for her anymore. This latest affair was also with an old flame. This hurt in my heart is terrible and my self respect is non-existent.

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
can'ttrusther,

Fellow "not-such-a-spring-chicken" here responding to your "not-such-a-spring-chicken" post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> May I make a suggestion? There is no particular reason to rush into the decision to pursue the divorce or not to pursue it. Why not take a little time to think about it? On your own, in quietness and with your own thoughts, why not reach your own conclusions and timeframes? Why not take some time to decide what you want and what you need, and directly ask for what you need? Why not just do some sitting back and see if there are changes and if they are real?

I can only speak for myself here, but one of the major reasons I divorced my serial cheater exH was that I had promised myself that I would never go through another affair--and then when he HAD another affair (on his 40th birthday), I cried and cried because I knew that if I DIDN'T do something, I couldn't trust MYSELF. I knew that if I gave him "one more chance" (after 13!!) that I was just lying to myself and I could not depend on myself to keep me safe from all this emotional damage. My suspicion is that is somewhat where you are. You believed her promises...then again...then again...and then told yourself you would not go through this again, and part of you just died when you DID go through the pain of another A again because you think you can not trust YOURSELF to keep protect yourself.

However, your spouse has something my spouse never had. She is trying to do actions that show you that she wants it. Actions speak a million times louder than words, and although her actions may be misguided and missing the mark, she is at least ACTING (in my instance, my exH was unwilling to change any of his behaviors or ACT any different).

This is why I suggest just laying back a bit. I myself took some time to myself and was able to verbalize three distinct areas that were intolerable to me and my emotional health, and I spoke clearly and told my exH exactly what I needed. Then I asked if he was willing to do those things for me beginning immediately...not "some day" or "when he was ready" but tommorow. His answer was no.

BTW, my three areas were: 1. A marriage that was mutually satisfying--meaning meeting some of my needs too--and 100% faithful--meaning NO affairs of any kind. Consider the possibility of sexual addiction or maybe sex/love addiction. 2. Deal with and accept diabetes and don't deny it; and deal with and accept the mental illnesses and don't just take a pill. Go to the doctor or psychiatrist, read and learn, go to support groups, etc. 3. Protect me and the children from the physical, emotional, mental and verbal abuse of raging. Take responsibility for raging and make appropriate plans to deal with it.

So, can'ttrusther, what do you say? Want to take a little time and get back to YOU and feel more sure about your decision??


CJ

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
Can'ttrusther,

Listen to CJ, I think she offers you some good advice. I'll offer you a little philosophy from someone OLDER than you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It has been my observation that the world seems to offer us ONLY two options in most matters. But, it is my observation, that really there are more, they just take creativity to see and use.

Let me offer you an example. You have heard the statement that you "cannot be a litle pregnant". Actually you and I cannot be pregnant at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So let me offer you a scenario that is seen on this board. Say a W becomes pregnant with OM's child. It would seem that the options are to abort, or carry the child to term. But, if one decides on the second choice, then new options open up. There may be miscarriage or the child may be born. Even here there are more options, keep the child, put the child up for adoption, give the child to OM. So from what seemed to be a yea/nea situation many options arise.

Now let's look at marriage. You are deciding between staying married or divorcing. That seems to be the only options, but actually there are more. You could stay married now, and the marriage gets worse. Or you could stay married and the marriage gets better, OR you could decide to really change your marriage and how you two interact. So there are options with in options.

Likewise you could decide to divorce and never see one another again, or you could decide to divorce, and later become friends and lovers and remarry.

My point is that it seems to me you are basing your decision on how your W has acted in the past, and who can fault you. That sort of leaves it in the "take it or leave it" category. However, the other options is to NOT accept the old marriage, but NOT divorce. You could with the help of your W decide to have a NEW marriage, complete with new insights, new behavior, and renewed love for one another.

My suggestion dovetails with CJ's give this some thought. In the best of worlds would you happily stay married to your W if things changed? If so what would those things need to be?

From you posts I could probably guess at a few:

1. That she actually loved you over all other men.

2. That she was faithful to you in body and soul.

3. That she was HAPPY to be in such a marriage with you.

4. She would have to be honest, caring, and loving.

5. She could have no more secrets.

6. You would have to love her as well.

7. She would have to respect you and you her.


So how am I doing? Am I close? Make your list of what it would take, and then discuss it with your W and a marriage counselor. Draw up a plan with decision points, guidelines and action items for both of you, and the use the POJA to address any areas where you and your W don't see eye to eye.

Talk about this with her, your counselor. Then if you cannot find the common ground and assurances you seek, consider divorce.

You have plenty of time to address this and then lead a long life. You are good for at least another 30 years and perhaps more. So if you married in 5 years you are still looking at 25 years. Take you time and look at ALL of your options and the nuances of each.

That is my suggestion to you.

God Bless,

JL

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4
you've been married almost thirty years to a woman who has repeatedly lied to you, cheated on you, and ran up enormous debt. The BIG question for you is...are you better off with her or without her? After 30 years of this roller coaster...don't you deserve AT LEAST some peace for yourself? It's time you started to listen to your guts...do what's right FOR YOU. Your kids are grown, believe me there is life out there for you - it's up to you to make the choice and follow the path BEST FOR YOU. If you do not feel good about who you are....there is no way that you can salvage the relationship with your wife. I say, get some distance...divorce her...take care of YOU...and perhaps down the road you will find your way back to each other. It's a leap of faith...in YOURSELF.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4
C
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4
This is for "myheartsdesire".

You need to stand on your own two feet, without a husband, lover, or your "God". Sounds like you are trying to take ownership...but are unwilling to go the entire distance. I don't think that either of you can see anything clearly about your history together or any possible future due to all of the lousy baggage you both carry. Take care of YOURSELF....meaning move out, get a job, support yourself, heal yourself....etc.....THEN maybe yo can find your way back to each other. The way it stands now...living together...both of you posting to a website about the other....basically pouring salt in all the wounds....not veyr healthy at all. Sometimes you can't see the forest if all the trees are in the way...


Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
2 members (2 invisible), 39 guests, and 53 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Almak, A3W, OnTheRocks, Alise245, CVT
71,702 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,537
Posts2,322,697
Members71,702
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5