My wife recently caught me masturbating even though I thought I was being discreet. It happened once before, a few years ago, and she was quite upset about it.

I don't cheat on my wife. I'm not having an affair. I don't indulge in pornography but I guess I occasionally have fantasies about other women (that I think about sometimes during masturbation)--someone on TV, a movie actress, or even a friend or neighbor. More often than not, I fantasize about sex with my wife--particularly giving her oral sex--something we never do because she thinks it's wrong or sinful.

Anyway, I've never thought of my behavior as being harmful. Just a physical release of tension. But since she finds it so offensive, am I being wrong or selfish to continue?

Help. I need advise.

There is not an easy answer to this, but readign Archibald Hart's "The Sexual Man" gave me a lot of insight that helped me with what place sex and masturbation had in my life vs. what place they should have for e to have the healthiest and most satisfying sex life possible. The short answer is that I think both you and your wife have issues, but to be more specific than that would take more time than I have, and wouldn't necessarily get to their root, anyway. Read the book. Reflect. Discuss it with your wife. I think the exercise will be much more worthwhile than a short answer from me.

From a female's viewpoint....I would prefer my husband ask me to "do the job" or ask for sex. I'd feel somewhat betrayed if he didn't.

Study the POJA concept and that will help you understand why you shouldn't do it.

These are why I object to my husband doing it:

1. It's a juvenile behavior - and embarrassing - or you wouldn't talk about being "discreet" and you wouldn't be hiding it from her. We are more than our biology - and masturbation is a totally limbic brain activity - lacking logic or intelligence for a grown man to be doing, when he can get his "biological" release by working a little harder on his relationship with his wife.

2. My husband's personality changes - meaning, he becomes irritable, dissatisfied, angry, and intolerant of the simplest thing that has nothing to do with sex. In other words, his frequency of lovebusters increases proportionally to him being less than faithful in his sexuality to me - and masterbation is a sexual act that has nothing to do with marital sex - so it's totally selfish and technically being unfaithful!

3. Since I know that fantasy is involved, and I'm insecure about how I look, I don't care to try and keep up with phony competition - airbrushed, plastic surgery and padding, compared to real-live flesh and blood me.

4. You want a good marriage and your wife doesn't like it - whatever her reasons? Don't do it! Period. You work it out with her. Don't look to this board or any "expert" you can find to justify your behavior. The Policy of Joint Agreement is the best guideline you will find for working this out with your wife.

Now, if you find your behavior is compulsive and you simply can't control yourself and you put your marriage at risk - I would seek help from a 12 step recovery program. But I don't know that this is the point where you are. Right now, by disregarding your wife's feelings about the behavior, you are telling her that your own selfish desires are more important to you than her, her feelings, her values, etc. And you are telling her that masturbation is more important than improving your marriage.

<small>[ July 20, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

kp:

I think that you are going to have to supply us with more information than you have in order for us to provide you with any appropriate insight. I guess the ultimate question becomes - Why do you masturbate? Is it simply to "release tension" or is it because of lack of sex from spouse? Also, does your wife masturbate?

I find it extremely difficult to believe that there are adults out there that do not masturbate at all. I strongly disagree with KaylaAndy's opinion that masturbating is "juvenile behavior" or that it is "a totally limbic brain activity - lacking logic or intelligence for a grown man to be doing." If that is the case than having sex with your wife for pleasure and not to produce children would also be considered "lacking logic." Sex, whether it be masturbation or intercourse, is mainly for our own selfish pleasure, there is no logic or intelligence behind it. We, as humans, do things that give us pleasure. That is normal. I'm not saying that you should let your masturbation take over your life, but I do not see it as something that is immoral or childish. I truly believe that in order to have a satisfying sex life you first have to be able to please yourself before you can please someone else.

Now it sounds like KaylaAndy's husband had problems outside of his masturbation. He love busted and apparently did not meet his wife's emotional needs. Therefore, when he did masturbate she felt that he was cheating her out of their relationship. I don't know if that is what you are doing, but I don't think so. Your wife may have some valid insecurities and religious reasons for not condoning masturbation. I guess I must be one of the luckier guys out there because both my wife and I masturbate. We are very open to one another about that. You should definitely talk to your wife openly about masturbation in general. Find out her reasons for disliking it so much. Maybe then the two of you can find a common ground upon which to stand. Good luck

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: jsg ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jsg:
<strong>I find it extremely difficult to believe that there are adults out there that do not masturbate at all. I strongly disagree with KaylaAndy's opinion that masturbating is "juvenile behavior" or that it is "a totally limbic brain activity - lacking logic or intelligence for a grown man to be doing." If that is the case than having sex with your wife for pleasure and not to produce children would also be considered "lacking logic." Sex, whether it be masturbation or intercourse, is mainly for our own selfish pleasure, there is no logic or intelligence behind it. We, as humans, do things that give us pleasure. That is normal. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like I wasn't specific enough. I'm not talking about mutual stimulation when I refer to masturbation, nor do I think this man's wife or he himself sees it that way. He's shamed and guilty or he would openly stimulate himself regardless of his wife's feelings about it.

Masturbation, as a solitary sexual act removes the need for someone to build an intimate relationship with someone else to have their SF needs met. It's the lazy man's way out of intimacy. This is a MARRIAGE BUILDER'S forum - designed to focus on activities that bring a couple closer together. And solitary, hidden sexual activities, whether with oneself or with an OW/OM, harms the marriage, because the person has taken a short cut to building their marriage to get their needs met. That is the ultimate selfish act.

Limbic brain operators care nothing for a relationship. They don't work POJAs. They seek only their own pleasure and gratification at someone else's expense if necessary.

Marriage Builders is for higher brained operators. Those who get their pleasure from pleasing and being pleased by their spouse, and their spouse only. It's harder work. But if the marriage is more important than the selfish alternative, it is way more worth it to save yourself for your marriage partner.

As I see it you have two options for SF -
1. shortcuts like affairs or masturbation which take away from the opportunity for marriage partner meeting the need.
2. work on communication, openness and honesty, financial support, domestic support, recreational companionship, good parent, etc. and see what happens to SF as a result.

Masturbation (again, specifically defined as hiding in a closet or bathroom or some other isolated place so that your spouse doesn't catch you doing it) robs the marriage SF.

Have you ever read the book "LoveBusters??" it has a example just like this one. In response to it, he says that it does not matter whether it is right or wrong. It is a offensive habit to your wife.

Well, I may not be qualified at all to respond to this...and I agree with others that more info is needed.

And please read this with a bit of comedy...and seriousness.

And I suggest you read the trhead about husbands overwhelming needs by mp22 (I'm bp22, her husband) to understand me.

I think KaylaAndy is nuts!

Yes, sounds like there's other issues...and you should serious think and relfect on these. Why do you do it? Are you just horny and wife isn't? Or do you like it better without her? Why are you to not fulfillig each other??

But I personally don't think I'd be alive without masterbation! LOL

Sex in my marriage was less than once a month...I lived through my 20's and had sex, as a married man since 20, less than 80 times I'm certain! In 10 years!

Maybe that's enough for you...or for your wife. But personally, it isn't for me.

KaylaAndy states: "Marriage Builders is for higher brained operators"

Maybe this is more of MB's secret code I am not familiar with...but holy cats! Becareful! I guess if you can associate "trust in jesus" with "higher brained operators" then please ignore anything I ever say. LOL

I make no effort to hide my personal activity from my wife...often I'll do it in front of her. She is very indifferent to it...with more dislike than like I suspect. I don't think she minds that I do it...she just doens't like sex or sexual things. You'd think maybe she might want to be more involved.

And I can't resist...to the woman that posted she'd like to know so she could do it for her husband...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. He is a lucky man. Many years ago I suggested this to my wife...that since we don't have sex more than once every 6 weeks or so...maybe she should please me with her hand. After awhile, she said OK...but have to wear rubber gloves! LOL But no joke.

Seriously, you two should discuss it. Be honest with yourself...that IS the hardest thing to do. Just becareful, you might not want to see what you find.

But, PLEASE don't think that everyone thinks like some of the poster's here. But if you need to hide it, I think that's a HUGE SIGN something is amiss. HIDING anything is a sign...Heck, my new house has no doors...I hide nothing. (Well, pocket doors everywhere...I hate doors...I hate secrets...)

Have fun! (LOL)

(Please read with humor AND seriousness...)

OK, just asked my wife is she is bothered by my masterbation...and she said "No, I'm thankful for it!!!!" With a huge emphasis indeed!

LOL

bp22,

I would and have pleased my husband in that way. I find it almost as much of a turn on as actual intercourse. I'm sorry your wife doesn't feel that way, but whatever makes him happy, makes me happy.

I think if you read this you can see a not to categorize people or sterotype, for the most part that women and men view the act of sex (in this case masterbation) differently. I have long thought that females view it as bonding or intimacy (love) and males for the most part view it as a purely mechanical function (breathing).. I don't think it's good or bad, it just is what it is. If you are a woman and seriously offended by your guy's "habit" then step up to the plate and and take a swing at it.. My 2 cents. And lastly for years I thought it was "sinful" or "wrong" growing up... And all it did was make me wierd, pent up and a little pissed off at the world that told me that it was abnormal when in fact NOT doing it is abnormal. My 4 cents now.

Good God! I have no idea how I would exist if I didn't masturbate. I would explode.LOL My wife seems not to care. We have little to no sex. Sad, I am ready for an affair.

This is quite an interesting discussion, isn't it?

I also do this for my husband and he sometimes participates when I do it for myself. I don't think there's anything wrong with it unless it replaces your sf with your wife. Then that's a problem. I like to watch my h and he likes to watch me.

Has she told you why she dislikes it? I have some huge insecurities about my looks, too, but I realize that I can't own my husband's thoughts. If he's gonna think about other women, he's gonna do it...I can't stop it. As long as he stays faithful to me, what's the harm. Our thoughts are the only things that are truly ours.

There's nothing wrong with this---sometimes I'm tired but need the release and my h is busy with something. What's the harm?

KaylaAndy, lighten up, baby.

Frankly, I do lighten up - all the time.

Ya know - this is a marriage builder's web site, yet throughout this thread, I have seen people talk about their relationships as if they are functional. I mean - get a clue - the wife encourages masturbation so she doesn't have to meet his need for SF? That's an ideal marriage we should role model? Do either of these people have a clue as to how Marriage Builders works, or what the program is all about?

Someone spouting off that he has the answers, and can't get his wife to meet his SF need and she's all-fired happy about his self-sex... dare I say it? nah! he wouldn't get it!

A strong vote for KaylaAndy and her side of the table. I resent my husband's masturbation (yes, it's spelled with a "u") immensely because it replaces ME. I am out of the equation and out of the opportunity to meet his SF. And my H practices this in secret (and thinks I am too stupid to know). We have talked about it, and I've told him how I feel about it. He thinks women just don't understand a man's SF and needs. Big time cop-out. Today my C talked about SF in general and he said something I like: Sex isn't a physical exercise alone, it is physical expression of an EMOTION (namely, love, caring, tenderness). And perhaps that is why it hurts most of all, because my feelings are, indeed, at the bottom of the list for my husband. He'd rather have a self-induced orgasm than involve me in lovemaking. I think that is really sad.

Asgoodasitgets- I see your and KaylaAndy's point of view and thinking, but I would say that women that I have known with siilar thinking are a shred insecure (I know aren't we all). Lastly and I may be off on this but I do want to comment on "Today my C talked about SF in general and he said something I like: Sex isn't a physical exercise alone, it is physical expression of an EMOTION (namely, love, caring, tenderness)."-I can almost assure you that that is for WOMEN ONLY. For most guys it is truly a mechanical (unemotional) function..And that is yet another reason why relationshipsare so hard... My .02

Thanks for your insight, Jack. You're right. I am a tad insecure--knowing that my husband prefers a hot shower and his own hands to me in bed . . . that's a bit graphic, but there you have it. I agree completely with your view that men see SF as unemotional and purely physical. The question is, how do we bridge the gap between men and women on meeting SF needs? Any answers?

Here's my take on the subject. To me masturbation is something I know my husband does, but I dont want to see it or know about it. Its a big turn off to me !! I have only walked in on him once and it just completely turned me off everytime I seen him after that for about a week.

To me its kinda like ..well dont wanna get gross here but going to the bathroom. I dont let him come in the bathroom when I am sitting on the toilet or leave the door wide open. There are just some things to me that are private and should stay private. No matter how long you been married.

To me if a man is gonna masturbate thats fine, just do it where you know your not gonna get walked in on by your wife or kids. Have some common courtesy if you know she dont like it or gets repulsed by it.

And I am not a doc but if your husband is more interested in masturbating than having sex with you, then it sounds more like he may have some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder to me. I dont know. Thats just my take on it.

It seems that where the masurbation becomes a problem is when one prefers it to actual sex with your spouse. This is confusing, but perhaps Jack72 gave us a clue. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> males for the most part view it as a purely mechanical function (breathing).. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a hard time believing when my H masturbates it feels the same as when we make love. There's emotion involved on both parts. If it was all mechanical there would be no point in making love in the first place IMO.

While masturbation is normal and almost everyone does it, doing it constantly and compulsively isn't and would signify a problem with intimacy, especially if there was a willing partner with real emotions available.

Ok, I've been lurking this thread and I only have one question...

Don't any of you women masturbate? We are all deriding men (or supporting them) for their "mechanical functions". What about the women?

I will come out of the closet--I do it. It helps me get to know my own body and has greatly improved my sex life overall--if I know what to do, I can teach my H. In fact, after 6 years that is one of the few things we do well together.

I don't get the big deal--its the same as eating a bowl of ice cream or going to a movie--a little fun that hurts no one (in fact, ice cream may be more hurtful).

Clueless about the drama,
EJ