My Wife Hates My Masturbation - Marriage Builders® Forums

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My wife recently caught me masturbating even though I thought I was being discreet. It happened once before, a few years ago, and she was quite upset about it.

I don't cheat on my wife. I'm not having an affair. I don't indulge in pornography but I guess I occasionally have fantasies about other women (that I think about sometimes during masturbation)--someone on TV, a movie actress, or even a friend or neighbor. More often than not, I fantasize about sex with my wife--particularly giving her oral sex--something we never do because she thinks it's wrong or sinful.

Anyway, I've never thought of my behavior as being harmful. Just a physical release of tension. But since she finds it so offensive, am I being wrong or selfish to continue?

Help. I need advise.

There is not an easy answer to this, but readign Archibald Hart's "The Sexual Man" gave me a lot of insight that helped me with what place sex and masturbation had in my life vs. what place they should have for e to have the healthiest and most satisfying sex life possible. The short answer is that I think both you and your wife have issues, but to be more specific than that would take more time than I have, and wouldn't necessarily get to their root, anyway. Read the book. Reflect. Discuss it with your wife. I think the exercise will be much more worthwhile than a short answer from me.

From a female's viewpoint....I would prefer my husband ask me to "do the job" or ask for sex. I'd feel somewhat betrayed if he didn't.

Study the POJA concept and that will help you understand why you shouldn't do it.

These are why I object to my husband doing it:

1. It's a juvenile behavior - and embarrassing - or you wouldn't talk about being "discreet" and you wouldn't be hiding it from her. We are more than our biology - and masturbation is a totally limbic brain activity - lacking logic or intelligence for a grown man to be doing, when he can get his "biological" release by working a little harder on his relationship with his wife.

2. My husband's personality changes - meaning, he becomes irritable, dissatisfied, angry, and intolerant of the simplest thing that has nothing to do with sex. In other words, his frequency of lovebusters increases proportionally to him being less than faithful in his sexuality to me - and masterbation is a sexual act that has nothing to do with marital sex - so it's totally selfish and technically being unfaithful!

3. Since I know that fantasy is involved, and I'm insecure about how I look, I don't care to try and keep up with phony competition - airbrushed, plastic surgery and padding, compared to real-live flesh and blood me.

4. You want a good marriage and your wife doesn't like it - whatever her reasons? Don't do it! Period. You work it out with her. Don't look to this board or any "expert" you can find to justify your behavior. The Policy of Joint Agreement is the best guideline you will find for working this out with your wife.

Now, if you find your behavior is compulsive and you simply can't control yourself and you put your marriage at risk - I would seek help from a 12 step recovery program. But I don't know that this is the point where you are. Right now, by disregarding your wife's feelings about the behavior, you are telling her that your own selfish desires are more important to you than her, her feelings, her values, etc. And you are telling her that masturbation is more important than improving your marriage.

[ July 20, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]

kp:

I think that you are going to have to supply us with more information than you have in order for us to provide you with any appropriate insight. I guess the ultimate question becomes - Why do you masturbate? Is it simply to "release tension" or is it because of lack of sex from spouse? Also, does your wife masturbate?

I find it extremely difficult to believe that there are adults out there that do not masturbate at all. I strongly disagree with KaylaAndy's opinion that masturbating is "juvenile behavior" or that it is "a totally limbic brain activity - lacking logic or intelligence for a grown man to be doing." If that is the case than having sex with your wife for pleasure and not to produce children would also be considered "lacking logic." Sex, whether it be masturbation or intercourse, is mainly for our own selfish pleasure, there is no logic or intelligence behind it. We, as humans, do things that give us pleasure. That is normal. I'm not saying that you should let your masturbation take over your life, but I do not see it as something that is immoral or childish. I truly believe that in order to have a satisfying sex life you first have to be able to please yourself before you can please someone else.

Now it sounds like KaylaAndy's husband had problems outside of his masturbation. He love busted and apparently did not meet his wife's emotional needs. Therefore, when he did masturbate she felt that he was cheating her out of their relationship. I don't know if that is what you are doing, but I don't think so. Your wife may have some valid insecurities and religious reasons for not condoning masturbation. I guess I must be one of the luckier guys out there because both my wife and I masturbate. We are very open to one another about that. You should definitely talk to your wife openly about masturbation in general. Find out her reasons for disliking it so much. Maybe then the two of you can find a common ground upon which to stand. Good luck

[ July 22, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: jsg ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jsg:
I find it extremely difficult to believe that there are adults out there that do not masturbate at all. I strongly disagree with KaylaAndy's opinion that masturbating is "juvenile behavior" or that it is "a totally limbic brain activity - lacking logic or intelligence for a grown man to be doing." If that is the case than having sex with your wife for pleasure and not to produce children would also be considered "lacking logic." Sex, whether it be masturbation or intercourse, is mainly for our own selfish pleasure, there is no logic or intelligence behind it. We, as humans, do things that give us pleasure. That is normal. <hr /></blockquote>Sounds like I wasn't specific enough. I'm not talking about mutual stimulation when I refer to masturbation, nor do I think this man's wife or he himself sees it that way. He's shamed and guilty or he would openly stimulate himself regardless of his wife's feelings about it.

Masturbation, as a solitary sexual act removes the need for someone to build an intimate relationship with someone else to have their SF needs met. It's the lazy man's way out of intimacy. This is a MARRIAGE BUILDER'S forum - designed to focus on activities that bring a couple closer together. And solitary, hidden sexual activities, whether with oneself or with an OW/OM, harms the marriage, because the person has taken a short cut to building their marriage to get their needs met. That is the ultimate selfish act.

Limbic brain operators care nothing for a relationship. They don't work POJAs. They seek only their own pleasure and gratification at someone else's expense if necessary.

Marriage Builders is for higher brained operators. Those who get their pleasure from pleasing and being pleased by their spouse, and their spouse only. It's harder work. But if the marriage is more important than the selfish alternative, it is way more worth it to save yourself for your marriage partner.

As I see it you have two options for SF -
1. shortcuts like affairs or masturbation which take away from the opportunity for marriage partner meeting the need.
2. work on communication, openness and honesty, financial support, domestic support, recreational companionship, good parent, etc. and see what happens to SF as a result.

Masturbation (again, specifically defined as hiding in a closet or bathroom or some other isolated place so that your spouse doesn't catch you doing it) robs the marriage SF.

Have you ever read the book "LoveBusters??" it has a example just like this one. In response to it, he says that it does not matter whether it is right or wrong. It is a offensive habit to your wife.

Well, I may not be qualified at all to respond to this...and I agree with others that more info is needed.

And please read this with a bit of comedy...and seriousness.

And I suggest you read the trhead about husbands overwhelming needs by mp22 (I'm bp22, her husband) to understand me.

I think KaylaAndy is nuts!

Yes, sounds like there's other issues...and you should serious think and relfect on these. Why do you do it? Are you just horny and wife isn't? Or do you like it better without her? Why are you to not fulfillig each other??

But I personally don't think I'd be alive without masterbation! LOL

Sex in my marriage was less than once a month...I lived through my 20's and had sex, as a married man since 20, less than 80 times I'm certain! In 10 years!

Maybe that's enough for you...or for your wife. But personally, it isn't for me.

KaylaAndy states: "Marriage Builders is for higher brained operators"

Maybe this is more of MB's secret code I am not familiar with...but holy cats! Becareful! I guess if you can associate "trust in jesus" with "higher brained operators" then please ignore anything I ever say. LOL

I make no effort to hide my personal activity from my wife...often I'll do it in front of her. She is very indifferent to it...with more dislike than like I suspect. I don't think she minds that I do it...she just doens't like sex or sexual things. You'd think maybe she might want to be more involved.

And I can't resist...to the woman that posted she'd like to know so she could do it for her husband...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. He is a lucky man. Many years ago I suggested this to my wife...that since we don't have sex more than once every 6 weeks or so...maybe she should please me with her hand. After awhile, she said OK...but have to wear rubber gloves! LOL But no joke.

Seriously, you two should discuss it. Be honest with yourself...that IS the hardest thing to do. Just becareful, you might not want to see what you find.

But, PLEASE don't think that everyone thinks like some of the poster's here. But if you need to hide it, I think that's a HUGE SIGN something is amiss. HIDING anything is a sign...Heck, my new house has no doors...I hide nothing. (Well, pocket doors everywhere...I hate doors...I hate secrets...)

Have fun! (LOL)

(Please read with humor AND seriousness...)

OK, just asked my wife is she is bothered by my masterbation...and she said "No, I'm thankful for it!!!!" With a huge emphasis indeed!

LOL

bp22,

I would and have pleased my husband in that way. I find it almost as much of a turn on as actual intercourse. I'm sorry your wife doesn't feel that way, but whatever makes him happy, makes me happy.

I think if you read this you can see a not to categorize people or sterotype, for the most part that women and men view the act of sex (in this case masterbation) differently. I have long thought that females view it as bonding or intimacy (love) and males for the most part view it as a purely mechanical function (breathing).. I don't think it's good or bad, it just is what it is. If you are a woman and seriously offended by your guy's "habit" then step up to the plate and and take a swing at it.. My 2 cents. And lastly for years I thought it was "sinful" or "wrong" growing up... And all it did was make me wierd, pent up and a little pissed off at the world that told me that it was abnormal when in fact NOT doing it is abnormal. My 4 cents now.

Good God! I have no idea how I would exist if I didn't masturbate. I would explode.LOL My wife seems not to care. We have little to no sex. Sad, I am ready for an affair.

This is quite an interesting discussion, isn't it?

I also do this for my husband and he sometimes participates when I do it for myself. I don't think there's anything wrong with it unless it replaces your sf with your wife. Then that's a problem. I like to watch my h and he likes to watch me.

Has she told you why she dislikes it? I have some huge insecurities about my looks, too, but I realize that I can't own my husband's thoughts. If he's gonna think about other women, he's gonna do it...I can't stop it. As long as he stays faithful to me, what's the harm. Our thoughts are the only things that are truly ours.

There's nothing wrong with this---sometimes I'm tired but need the release and my h is busy with something. What's the harm?

KaylaAndy, lighten up, baby.

Frankly, I do lighten up - all the time.

Ya know - this is a marriage builder's web site, yet throughout this thread, I have seen people talk about their relationships as if they are functional. I mean - get a clue - the wife encourages masturbation so she doesn't have to meet his need for SF? That's an ideal marriage we should role model? Do either of these people have a clue as to how Marriage Builders works, or what the program is all about?

Someone spouting off that he has the answers, and can't get his wife to meet his SF need and she's all-fired happy about his self-sex... dare I say it? nah! he wouldn't get it!

A strong vote for KaylaAndy and her side of the table. I resent my husband's masturbation (yes, it's spelled with a "u") immensely because it replaces ME. I am out of the equation and out of the opportunity to meet his SF. And my H practices this in secret (and thinks I am too stupid to know). We have talked about it, and I've told him how I feel about it. He thinks women just don't understand a man's SF and needs. Big time cop-out. Today my C talked about SF in general and he said something I like: Sex isn't a physical exercise alone, it is physical expression of an EMOTION (namely, love, caring, tenderness). And perhaps that is why it hurts most of all, because my feelings are, indeed, at the bottom of the list for my husband. He'd rather have a self-induced orgasm than involve me in lovemaking. I think that is really sad.

Asgoodasitgets- I see your and KaylaAndy's point of view and thinking, but I would say that women that I have known with siilar thinking are a shred insecure (I know aren't we all). Lastly and I may be off on this but I do want to comment on "Today my C talked about SF in general and he said something I like: Sex isn't a physical exercise alone, it is physical expression of an EMOTION (namely, love, caring, tenderness)."-I can almost assure you that that is for WOMEN ONLY. For most guys it is truly a mechanical (unemotional) function..And that is yet another reason why relationshipsare so hard... My .02

Thanks for your insight, Jack. You're right. I am a tad insecure--knowing that my husband prefers a hot shower and his own hands to me in bed . . . that's a bit graphic, but there you have it. I agree completely with your view that men see SF as unemotional and purely physical. The question is, how do we bridge the gap between men and women on meeting SF needs? Any answers?

Here's my take on the subject. To me masturbation is something I know my husband does, but I dont want to see it or know about it. Its a big turn off to me !! I have only walked in on him once and it just completely turned me off everytime I seen him after that for about a week.

To me its kinda like ..well dont wanna get gross here but going to the bathroom. I dont let him come in the bathroom when I am sitting on the toilet or leave the door wide open. There are just some things to me that are private and should stay private. No matter how long you been married.

To me if a man is gonna masturbate thats fine, just do it where you know your not gonna get walked in on by your wife or kids. Have some common courtesy if you know she dont like it or gets repulsed by it.

And I am not a doc but if your husband is more interested in masturbating than having sex with you, then it sounds more like he may have some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder to me. I dont know. Thats just my take on it.

It seems that where the masurbation becomes a problem is when one prefers it to actual sex with your spouse. This is confusing, but perhaps Jack72 gave us a clue. <blockquote>quote:<hr /> males for the most part view it as a purely mechanical function (breathing).. <hr /></blockquote>I have a hard time believing when my H masturbates it feels the same as when we make love. There's emotion involved on both parts. If it was all mechanical there would be no point in making love in the first place IMO.

While masturbation is normal and almost everyone does it, doing it constantly and compulsively isn't and would signify a problem with intimacy, especially if there was a willing partner with real emotions available.

Ok, I've been lurking this thread and I only have one question...

Don't any of you women masturbate? We are all deriding men (or supporting them) for their "mechanical functions". What about the women?

I will come out of the closet--I do it. It helps me get to know my own body and has greatly improved my sex life overall--if I know what to do, I can teach my H. In fact, after 6 years that is one of the few things we do well together.

I don't get the big deal--its the same as eating a bowl of ice cream or going to a movie--a little fun that hurts no one (in fact, ice cream may be more hurtful).

Clueless about the drama,
EJ

I hope the comments were not addresed to me...Clearly I think there is a problem if masturbation is done because of a lack of interest in/by a spouse. I'd be the first to say, and my wife the second, that there is a large difference in our sexual appetites.

And yes, that is NOT good. I agree. Actually it really sucks! Or rather, it doesn't. LOL

I totally disagree about sex being mechanical, at least for this guy. There perhaps are times when it is "just about sex"...but for me, that is very rare. I think I might be very different among men, but I enjoy the romance, the teasing, the build-up...all the very things my wife DOESN'T enjoy! Or at least not I consider the above...Oh well.

And one more comment. I'll say this as a suggestion....maybe some of you woman are viewed as being very sexually inhibited by your husband? I have no clue...please don't be offended...but perhaps just think about it. I can say in my experience, my wife enjoys intercourse. She doesn't enjoy foreplay. It is usually always the same way...position wise. It is rather great, no doubt, but personally, I'd enjoy a bit more variety and "wildness". Perhaps I will be branded as a pervert, already have been likened to Satan himself...LOL...so no worries there. But perhaps if a woman of rather "reserved" history would loosen up and show a little "wild" side...maybe that would make a huge difference?

Just a thought....

Is it possible that we could agree that there are healthy as well as unhealthy forms of masturbation?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I will come out of the closet--I do it. It helps me get to know my own body and has greatly improved my sex life overall--if I know what to do, I can teach my H. <hr /></blockquote>To me, that's a healthy form. When H is out of town, or when I was recovering from childbirth, I have no problem with him taking this route. As a matter of fact, it's like, thank you. Thank you for not doing a ONS.

I think that openness about this is important for your marriage. Shaming your H about this will just drive him further from you.

bp22: just curious, without being too graphic, what sort of wildness might be important?

Sweetannie:

Just something different.

Instigation...besides "Do you want to come upstairs with me?", how about walking in the living room (everyone else asleep of course) naked or nearly naked.

Touch. How about touching everywhere. Softly, not so softly, whatever is liked. But without trying, how do you know? Not just gentials, everywhere. Rub your fingers, lightly drag your nails, wet hands, cold, etc. The skin is extremely sensitive...

Exploration. I have a big body...explore it. Let me explore yours. Try to relax and open up and think that you might enjoy having your necked rubbed, your calves massaged...

Sensualness. There's a huge difference between "slutty" and sensual...especially within marriage. There is no slutty within marriage...I think. Don't be afraid or embarrased to be "sexy".

Teasing. I'd probably kill to be teased, in a sensual/erotic kind of way. I wonder what this would be like...what do I mean? Touch, rub, then stop. Touch rub someplace else. Stop. Know how your spouse responds...sense the "arousal"...feedback.

Our problem is, I'd say, my wife just wants to "get right to it". Not always, but nearly always. And she then doesn't enjoy these other things. And certainly gets no joy out of pleasing me. When everything is filled with sighs, facial expessions, and obvious signs of withdrawl....it's about as much fun as pulling teeth!

So, she just doesn't like it....and I should just accept it. And go my life without these things. Yeah, right. And marriage is a one way street. Oh, forgot that part! I'm the big, bad, arrogant husband. Yes, I can be sarcastic, eh? LOL

For years and years I have always commented on how I'd love to come home some evening from work, all the kids asleep, with my wife waiting in a t-shirt...You know, come on to me, blatantly instigate...basically just jump me. Never has happened...I refer to her as "inhibited". I think because of religion upbringing...just the subconcious thought that sex is for reproduction...not enjoyment. She completely denies...that's OK...but whatever the reason, I'd just suggest that wives (or husbands) open up and explore, be more aggressive, instigative. It is NO FUN to always have to suggest...surprise me, take me, force me (wahoo!), whatever...spontaneous. But enjoy it. And if you don't, well, that's my dilemna. I don't enjoy it when I know she doesn't....no bigger turn off...so what to do???

So I am not suggesting getting out the whips and chains, although, I have nothing against that if you enjoy it. LOL Actually, being tied up would probably be wonderful...talk about a tease!

Things like that. Not boinking out in the front yard on the interstate.

but handjobs on the interstate are okay, right?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks so much bp22--or maybe my H should thank you.
It's nice to get some ideas I can surprise him with. I admit I am not very good at teasing. It's like acting and I'm talent-deprived.

ok...and what about those of us who MUST or get NOTHING? And what about when I get it 5 times a year while her vibrator gets it 3 or 4 times a week?

IMHO: God knew we'd need to masturbate! Else why would He give us two hands at just the right position to be... um... 'handy'!

And for all you supposedly higher-brain types who don't get it: No, masturbation isn't nearly as good as intimate loving intercourse. That's like comparing a bologna sandwich to a T-Bone steak dinner.

But if you're starving, bologna can look pretty good.

Lots of women don't orgasm at all, and lots more can only do it themselves--

But I think that is largely because they are too shy to teach their men how to do the thing right...

BP, could this be a factor for you? Your wife said no once, and I hope that's true, but I do wonder.

Maybe that's cause I had bad sex before I learned how to GET AGGRESSIVE and teach my man how to do it right.

As for masturbation--as long as we're talking about it, why not do it together? Fun for all, and arousing!

Not like I'm a sex goddess or something. I agree with sweetannie, sometimes it is like acting. BUT, I try to live by the rule "fake it till you make it" (Ellis, baby). If I can act confident, eventually I really WILL be confident.

It works, I swear--I used to be a "lie there and do nothing" kind of girl, now I prefer to be on top!

EJ

I will have to get my wife to respond here...but for the moment, speaking for her, I please her very well. I think she will agree. There is no question she has real orgasms, both inside and outside as I call them, and they are intense. Getting even better as time goes on I think. I am willing to do anything for her...I mean anything. And I stop anything she doesn't like. She sometimes will say I am too rough...but I don't think I could possibly apply less pressure in a touch. I haven't yet taken out a measurement device...but I think she has some physical sensitivity issues. She hates massages...she hates to be rubbed (back of legs, neck, etc.) and I can't possibly put on less pressure that with the very tip of my tongue, as softly as possible. And no, not on the clittoris itself either...I am aware of the female anatomy and what she likes...and yes, it does change from moment to moment...that's all part of the fun.

I think our problem (sexually wise) is just a lack of desire (or interest) on her part. She will say, and I totally can accept, to a degree, that I upset her too much with my comments and such and why would she ever want to be close to me. But all things aside, I think her sexual chemical interest is just low. At least much lower than mine. I am not the once a week type...not sure I could go everyday 365 days in a row. But certainly 360 out of 365. LOL

There are times when she is very, uh, horny. And during these times she is all "get right to it"...literally. She has indeed tried lately to appease my interest for foreplay...but it is rather obvious...and after a few minutes, she'll ask the "are you ready for the real thing yet?" LOL It's true. No, it doesn't take me a long time to get ready...no need for Viagra here. Anti-Viagra, now that's a pill I'd probably take daily. Maybe 3 times a day! LOL

I think people are just different...unfortunately the two of us are on rather different ends of the spectrum on this area.

As for faking...I don't think teasing is acting. It's not what I mean. But, if it is somethign you don't enjoy...then you are right, it would be very hard for me to enjoy anyways. Once I detect displeasure...and this is rather often, it is a huge turnoff to me. I think it should be that way. I don't think it is so much physical displeasure, although sometimes it is, but just "something new, something besides "getting righ to it" displeasure". Almost like a complete lack of interest in exploration, NO curiousity, just disgust. She is OK with receiving...she HATES to give.

To me teasing would be something that you know your spouse loves...and brings them close to orgasm...but don't take them all the way. Stop...do something else...go back. Just play with it. Personally, I'd love it.

mp22 and I just talked this morning about how I need to be more willing to endure her lack of interest, but continue the activity. It kinda feels like rape to me...that's not at all my fetish interests. LOL

What I don't understand though, if you claim to love someone, truely love someone, why would you not be willing to do anything for that person???? You might say in a heartbeat you'd be willing to die...but not give oral sex? Ok, just don't understand. I guess this is one reason I say my wife doesn't really love me. And this is the very reason I say that being honest with yourself is the hardest thign to do. Admitting how you really feel, what you really want, it was incredibly hard for me. Took 10 years of marriage for me....because I knew what the truth would mean. Now I am loving with the consequences.

Anyways, we are talking about basic things here...my wife doesn't like to touch me. She doesn't enjoy anything oral...sometimes receiving...never giving. She has no "imagination" about what to do next. She just wants to "get right to it". And then she is always on top (I'm 6'2" and 290 she is 5'1" and 125) so maybe that makes sense...but variety...it'd be nice.

And I would basically die, and have, when she has suggested something different. That's one of the things I mean about equal partner...take me someplace I wouldn't go alone...don't always make me be the one "in control". Whether it is sex or where we eat. In the past, I have asked her to be "in control" sexually...and she gets all extremely pissed off...saying I am playing games...I am playing games out of porno movies...and she is pissed. I think that is ridiculous. And I think I am missing out on many many things.

And as someone mentioned previously, I am forbidden from these things FOREVER because she is the only one that can provide them...and yet has no interest. So, for me? Ah, to bad. I am the big bad arrogant Satan like husband! LOL (Sarcasm and humour kids...yet exactly what I have been told here by others)

For me, the biggest turnon, without a doubt, is to give. To know that what I am doing is pleasing her. To me, there's nothing else like it. What upsets me, is that this is not at all even remotely close to how she feels. You of course can say if I am happy with giving, why care that she has no interest? Yea right.

And someone on a different post explained how the years of no sex...the years of wondering every day if today was the day, the years of going months without...that is filled him full of resentment. I know that happend to me. Throughout my entire 20's, once every 6 weeks. That 9 times a year...or 90 times in 10 years...in my 20's. The ENTIRE DECADE! There no doubt that this has caused a huge problem in our marriage. And yet it is ALL my fault because I was always so evil, so verbally abusive.

I should have known...dated for 6 years (ages 14-20)...no premarital sex (no intercourse anyways) and on the wedding night...NOPE. No sex. Too late...it was about 3AM...but c'mon...what gives????

OK...rambled on and on.

Are you other ladies like this? Are you ones to lie still and quiet in bed? mp22 has come a long ways...indeed. Do you think being in control is a game? Do you think getting right to it is the only thing? Do you think curiousity and exploration is only something generated from the evil porno movies?

OK so I will reply as bp22 said- So what do you do if you just aren't interested? My sex drive is pretty low most of the time, but when I'm ready, then I'm ready and yes my husband DOES satisfy me. The problem is that even if I'm willing to have sex even though I'm not interested, then my husband tells me no because my disinterest turns him off. I can't win either way because he complains if I'm not interested and he complains if I offer, but am not really interested. Either way he gets nothing and acts all upset because I've "rejected" him once again. I can't fake it at all because I am really disgusted when I'm not ready or interested. This is all too evident to him by the looks on my face. I've tried before, but he knows and it defeats the whole thing! How do I either increase my interest in general or get my husband to be willing to try even if I'm not interested? He's correct in saying that his behavior towards me also turns me off. I'm trying to work on this, but sometimes I really feel like I'm being violated if I'm not "ready". Any suggestions? This is a huge problem for us because my husband is overly interested and I'm just the opposite. I avoid doing it myself because then it would be even longer until I'm ready to do it with him. Help!!!!!!

I forgot to say that he also says that I don't really love him because if I did then I would want to have sex with him more often and would be willing to please him even if I'm not interested. Back to him not wanting to do anything when I'm not interested even if i'm willing--what to do about this? What do you think about the love thing?

For those of you who have otherwise happy marriages but don't seemt o be interested in SF have any of you gone to doctors and had tests run to see if there is a hormone defiency?

If all else fails you can go to a good health food store and get herbs that can help.

Just a thought.

mp Here is a really good web sight that my husband found and sent to me.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/marriage/features/emotions.html

Have you asked your wife to masturbate you? Or does she also find this off limits to her?

Masturbation is something that does not harm you. I'm sure she would rather have you masturbating than screwing some other woman.

If she dislike so much, try doing it only when she is not at home. That way you won't get caught again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This is a complicated question, how to increse desire and lower feelings of rejection.

My H and I have struggled with this for soooooo long.

In the beginning, when we were dating, we did it like rabbits.

Then, after marriage, it came out that my H had all these weird views about sex, like sex in marriage is only for procreation. He began refusing sex more and more often, and when we did do it, it was sterile and over with quickly.

I felt immensly hurt and rejected.

As a result, I wouldn't come on to him, and when we did make love, I was the "dead fish" kind of lover. I laid there, he worked. Which is weird, because I am a very sensual person (I have NO problems with oral sex, I have in fact been complimented on it many times).

Which turned him off even more.

Now, after a series of emotional affairs and one physical affair on his part, the truth came out.

My H has issues in his childhood that relate strongly to his sexuality. He has never been able to be truly intimate with anyone but me, and this is only just beginning.

We are only now learning that when we say no, we are not "rejecting" one another, but simply saying not now.

But this has been a long, hard struggle, and sometimes we still fight and cry instead of making love.

No answers here, except KEEP TRYING
EJ

I can understand the "not now" every now and then. But day after day, week after week, I guess it seems no longer acceptable.

BUT, things have improved immensely over the past year from say 5 years ago. Like I said, our marriage is now the best it has ever been...yet needs much more.

But, if last night was any indication of the immediate future, well, things might be looking very good indeed!

wink wink nudge nudge say no more

lol
EJ

mp,

Lack of interest can also be attributed to depression. Have you talked to your doctor?

For me personally, the longer I go without, the less I want it. So my h makes sure we're 'regular'. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have to say that I use to be the same way about my husbands masturbation, but now I don't care because I came to realize that all my nagging about it and how I felt about it was pushing him away....closer to someone else.......I felt like he liked his hand more than me and it made me feel not worthy. All I can say is I hope your wife stops her nagging because I have come to relaize that men are all like that....not neccessarily because they want to be its just the sex drive they are put on this earth with and the need for men to masturbate just never goes away. A man can have sex 3 times a day but he will still need time by himself. I think it is a control thing and your wife has to relaize that it is better than cheating or confiding in someone else as my husband did.....I hope you can become open about it. My husband and I now ask eachother if we masturbated today and how was it........Good Luck

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by fireandice:
No, masturbation isn't nearly as good as intimate loving intercourse. That's like comparing a bologna sandwich to a T-Bone steak dinner.

But if you're starving, bologna can look pretty good.<hr /></blockquote>Continuing the analogy, for many men, we need to put on a song and dance production to get our W's "in the mood".

I would prefer the steak dinner 10 times out of 10. Sometimes, though, the effort and/or fear of rejection is just too much, so I settle for the sure thing.

Plus, for most guys, the steak is on the table for 2, maybe 3 meals a week. We're just more hungry than that.

My husband can and does masturbate. It doesnt bother me. It doesn't take away from our intimacy. I am totally comfortable with it.

I dont think we all have to agree, but this wifes offense is really related to something deeper. As long my husband wants he can masturbate. I will do the same for me if I feel like it.

We are both okay with it. No body is going to tell me I cannot cum without the assistance of another person. I don't see anything wrong with it at all. If my husband wants sex he gets it. As long as he is pleasuring himself, I dont see where it dishonors me.

I think this wife is being too controlling and insecure. It is really none of her business what he is thinking while he masturbates. We all think. What is she really afraid of?

I think some are looking at it from a Christian point of view. I believe there is a scripture that says if we look at a women and lust after her we have committed adultery in our heart. I believe that is why Kayla Andy ( and others) said it hurts to know he does it. Sure he can think of his own wife, but often men don't. ( as some earlier posters admitted.) I also believe that sex is like food. Some is good, but we can over eat. I don't believe we need to give in to every urge we have. In fact, I believe it is harmful to us to do that. I believe that is what makes man different than the animals, we can rise above things we feel to do, and allow for others feelings too.

Some posters have pointed out that these kind of things should be solved with POJA. How can someone that agrees with the MB principals disagree with that? I mean, shouldn't we work it out with something both can be happy with?

Lastly, I believe we should avoid comments that seem to say that if someone doesn't agree with us there is something wrong with them. I believe we can state our point of view and let it stand on it's own - without resorting to those kind of comments.

I have stated what I believe. I have strong feelings about these things. However, I don't think I have the right to make others think as I do or say bad things about them if they don't agree with me.

SS

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slapnuts:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by fireandice:
No, masturbation isn't nearly as good as intimate loving intercourse. That's like comparing a bologna sandwich to a T-Bone steak dinner.

But if you're starving, bologna can look pretty good.<hr /></blockquote>Continuing the analogy, for many men, we need to put on a song and dance production to get our W's "in the mood".

I would prefer the steak dinner 10 times out of 10. Sometimes, though, the effort and/or fear of rejection is just too much, so I settle for the sure thing.

Plus, for most guys, the steak is on the table for 2, maybe 3 meals a week. We're just more hungry than that.<hr /></blockquote>2-3 times a week??? Hell, I can't even remember what steak tastes like! But then, after 3 steak-free years, you can really start to appreciate a good cold cut... Hey!... Maybe THAT'S why they call them COLD cuts!

Long Live Oscar Mayer!

To all you pro-self-sex people:

Are you here to learn how to build your marriage, or justify independent behavior, selfish demands, annoying behaviors, etc.???

On a web site that is about building marriage relationships, there is no validation for behaviors that don't meet a POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT

On this web site, there can be NO legitimate justification of non-POJA behavior - as long as the person is married, and professing to want more information about how to improve the qualify of his/her marriage, encouragement of a behavior that is clearly NON-Policy of Joint Agreement to this man's wife, is not appropriate.

Hey everyone, I had to put my two cents worth into this discussion. Mostly because I think men hide in the bedroom or in front of the computer to masterbate because they are to darn lazy to come in the bed room and enjoy making love or having some sort of touchy feely sex with there wifes. My husband gets more gratification looking at porn then he does with me. This has been a big issue in our marriage and he knows this so now he has come to the point of hiding his masterbation and porn addiction from me. I know what he does. I am not stupid. He would rather masterbate then have actual sex with me. And when we do actually have intercourse he can't even get an erection. This is so sad. And I am discusted with it. He can look at naked pictures and get excited with that but not with me. Well doggarn if this is what marriage is all about then I don't need to be married. I think IF and I mean IF masterbation is a mutual enjoyment for both and isn't an all the time every darn day thing then yes it can really help when you work different shifts..... BUT for it to take presidents over actual sex then NO I don't agree with masterbation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
To all you pro-self-sex people:<hr /></blockquote>Who, moi? I already said it was a poor substitute for the real deal. But sometimes, ya gotta take what you can get.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Are you here to learn how to build your marriage, or justify independent behavior, selfish demands, annoying behaviors, etc. On a web site that is about building marriage relationships, there is no validation for behaviors that don't meet a POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT

On this web site, there can be NO legitimate justification of non-POJA behavior - as long as the person is married, and professing to want more information about how to improve the qualify of his/her marriage, encouragement of a behavior that is clearly NON-Policy of Joint Agreement to this man's wife, is not appropriate.<hr /></blockquote>Well, OK, IYO. But I've seen many aspects of Dr. Harley's tenets challenged here before. Some believe that POJA and/or Total Honesty can be taken to unhealthy extremes. Some don't feel that SF or physical attractiveness are real needs at all. Some feel that the need for financial support is so shallow that it shouldn't be considered a real need either.

Should people who hold these views be prohibited from expressing them here? I would hope not.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mrs_Debra:
I think men hide in the bedroom or in front of the computer to masterbate because they are to darn lazy to come in the bed room and enjoy making love or having some sort of touchy feely sex with there wifes. <hr /></blockquote>This may be true for your H, but it is not true of me or any man I've ever spoken with about the subject. (Yes, I have talked to friends about this stuff)

I think that like Pavlov's dogs, we men sometimes have been conditioned by rejection from our wives and it gets harder and harder to initiate intimacy with someone who turns you down.

Understandably, some times you ladies are just not in the mood.

Fine, but at the very least, another time, take responsibility for initiating yourself. Even though you may think of us as that big lug who can drive a nail through a board with two hits, we have feelings that can get hurt when our wives show no interest in us.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />He would rather masterbate then have actual sex with me. And when we do actually have intercourse he can't even get an erection. This is so sad. And I am discusted with it. He can look at naked pictures and get excited with that but not with me. Well doggarn if this is what marriage is all about then I don't need to be married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>He probably doesn't feel safe with you. I'd bet $50 that's where the ED comes from. He doesn't trust you not to stomp on his emotions.

I can tell you for sure that masturbation is not even 25% as good as actual sex.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
On this web site, there can be NO legitimate justification of non-POJA behavior.<hr /></blockquote>Explain to me how turning your H down for sex follows POJA.

Oh Slapnuts....the POJA doesn't include sex silly! That's just something else...something else we are "rewarded" with....clearly that is not part of POJA...and if it were, it can only happen when it is JOINTLY wanted silly...

And it takes you two strokes to pound the nail in?? LOL

Funny how pro-self-sex people jump to conclusions. The original poster to this thread said nothing about a total lack of SF in his marriage. Only that she didn't like oral and that she objected to his fantasizing about other women while he gave himself sex - hiding it from her because he knew she didn't like it.

What part of POJA don't you understand? If there's something you really really want to do, you work with your spouse to the point where she can enthusiastically support you in doing it. If you don't have anything to offer her so that she can POJA, maybe you need to re-think what you really really want to do and weigh it in the balance with your marriage.

The original post said nothing about an SF need being neglected or avoided. Just one form was off limits and self-sex was also off limits.

Frankly, if the only way you can get an SF need met is through leather and chains, and your wife is adamantly against that kind of SF, perhaps you are not compatible and it's time to re-evaluate the marriage.

Harley doesn't say that all marriages HAVE to last - but the ones that WANT to stay married, follow a policy of joint agreement.

So kwitcherwinin!

perhaps you should have started a new thread slapnuts....LOL Geez.

Erased other humor comment...

KPPIAZZ.....so, has there been any changes in your situation at home??

Please let us know what you two have concluded...or discussed...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by bp22:
And it takes you two strokes to pound the nail in?? LOL<hr /></blockquote>Nah, it takes one. I only said two so that the wives in here wouldn't think that their H's are wimps.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
Funny how pro-self-sex people jump to conclusions. <hr /></blockquote>Well we have too much time on our hands, perhaps if we got more sex......

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What part of POJA don't you understand? If there's something you really really want to do, you work with your spouse to the point where she can enthusiastically support you in doing it.<hr /></blockquote>Masturbation to me signals a total breakdown in POJA. If you are married and masturbating, it says to me that you obviously haven't been able to POJA a sufficient sex life, so you are doing what you have to to survive.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The original post said nothing about an SF need being neglected or avoided. Just one form was off limits and self-sex was also off limits.<hr /></blockquote>Why is it that women say "It is my body and I can do what I want with it, but you are not allowed to masturbate"?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Frankly, if the only way you can get an SF need met is through leather and chains, and your wife is adamantly against that kind of SF, perhaps you are not compatible and it's time to re-evaluate the marriage. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with you completely, but if a man suggests that, he is shallow.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slapnuts:

Why is it that women say "It is my body and I can do what I want with it, but you are not allowed to masturbate"?<hr /></blockquote>
Why is it that both men and women generalize far too much. The women's organizations who say this don't speak for all women - just their own self-centered selves!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Frankly, if the only way you can get an SF need met is through leather and chains, and your wife is adamantly against that kind of SF, perhaps you are not compatible and it's time to re-evaluate the marriage. <hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr />I agree with you completely, but if a man suggests that, he is shallow.<hr /></blockquote>Again, a generality. And perhaps, I could generalize further about deviant sex. That doesn't make the pain of this kind of incompatibility any less real for either party.

The truth of the matter is that this kind of mismatched couple could never be happy together. And I wish they could have found it out before they got married.

But I have seen people CHANGE GASP their love strategies. I used to be very auditorily triggered. But the language of anger and abuse make me numb to being courted by words. I've resorted to "I got to see you walk the talk - and I have to feel it in your touch" love strategy.

A SF preference that violates the moral code of the other spouse is going to be easier to change than her (or his - in the case of Hurrian Hoosier) moral code - because SF preferences are learned in adolescence and adulthood, while moral codes are usually engrained before puberty.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
The women's organizations who say this don't speak for all women - just their own self-centered selves! <hr /></blockquote>I'm not talking about women's organizations, or pro-choice people. I am talking about women who consistantly turn their H's down and then call them selfish for masturbating.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />A SF preference that violates the moral code of the other spouse is going to be easier to change than her moral code - because SF preferences are learned in adolescence and adulthood, while moral codes are usually engrained before puberty.<hr /></blockquote>This is not my situation, but what I'm saying is that when a woman rejects her H, I think that she has no say as to whether or not he takes care of himself.

If my W asks me to wash the laundry and I say no. I may have a legitimate reason for saying no, but IMHO, I lose the right to complain if I don't like how she folds my socks.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slapnuts:
I'm not talking about women's organizations, or pro-choice people. I am talking about women who consistantly turn their H's down and then call them selfish for masturbating.<hr /></blockquote>Like I said, we have no factual information here that the original poster's wife was withholding SF. Likewise, there are men who totally gross-out their VERY sexually giving wives with what they see as selfish and juvenile masturbating without them!

Generalities will kill a good exchange of ideas on how to solve the problem!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What I'm saying is that when a woman rejects her H, I think that she has no say as to whether or not he takes care of himself.

If my W asks me to wash the laundry and I say no. I may have a legitimate reason for saying no, but IMHO, I lose the right to complain if I don't like how she folds my socks.<hr /></blockquote>I'm not arguing that point. But it's a chicken and egg argument at it's foundation. Which came first, sexual immaturity and selfish demands, or withholding SF? What killed her desire? Are all women in your view, just selfish, angry, withholding b!tches? Or could there possibly a marital breakdown here that was not just her doing when it comes to sexual behaviors??

Simplistic answers, generalizations and assumptions don't solve marital problems or generate ideas and open communication.

I haven't read much of this thread, but I think if your wife doesn't want you doing it, you really should consider why she feels that way, and why you feel you need to masturbate. If she doesn't want you masturbating, then she'll have to pick up the "slack" so to speak. If she's willing, then what's the problem?

I also posted here because seeing the topic "My wife hates my masturbation" every day is getting annoying. Find an oral sex poll to post or something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
We have no factual information here that the original poster's wife was withholding SF. Likewise, there are men who totally gross-out their VERY sexually giving wives with what they see as selfish and juvenile masturbating without them!<hr /></blockquote>You are correct. I jumped on this bandwagon after it had gone on that tangent.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Are all women in your view, just selfish, angry, withholding b!tches? <hr /></blockquote>No.

Here is a copy/paste from another post about sex in marriage that I wrote the other day, I believe it applies here:

[POST]
1st Corinthians 7:2-6, 8-9 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Here's one writers take on this passage, I have bolded the parts I think align with the original posters points and points I think are relevant:

1) The sexual relationship between husband and wife is an important part of marriage. A lot of folks have the impression that Christians are against sex. Wrong. We are very much for sex in the right context, in the context of marriage. As someone said, "Sex is like fire. In the fireplace, it's warm and delightful. Outside of the fireplace, it's destructive." Our text gives no indication that Paul agrees with those who say procreation, having babies, is the only valid purpose of sex. I think he sees it as a gift from God, which, as one writer put it, is intended for pleasure as well as for producing babies. Now, certainly there is much more than sex involved in a good marital relationship, but it is part of the equation. Throughout his ministry, Paul dealt with folks known as ascetics who claimed that abstaining from food, drink and sex made one a more spiritual person. Even though he is a confirmed bachelor, Paul says that is nonsense. Yes, on occasion it may be good for a couple to abstain from sexual relations to focus on their relationship with God, but in general, sexual intimacy is a normal, healthy, wonderful part of a marriage.

Do most Christians today understand this? I'm not sure. One recent survey found that those folks who are regular church attendees claim to experience more sexual satisfaction than those who are not. That's good, I think. A few years ago, however, Ann Landers received 100,000 responses to a question she asked her readers. She found that 72% of women said they "would be content just to be held close and treated tenderly and forget about the sex act." That is a remarkable statistic, especially since we live in a culture which often tries to pretend sex is the ultimate human experience. Though I think it is good that most women reject that nonsense, it is really quite sad that so many don't see sexual intimacy with their spouse as something desirable. Now, I suspect that men bear as much, if not more, responsibility for this situation. Sexual intimacy is intended to be experienced in the context of emotional intimacy and too many men are not interested in that. I do believe, however, that Christians today need to affirm what Paul says: That though there is much more to marriage than sex, sexual intimacy is an important part of that relationship.

2) A good relationship with one's spouse prevents sexual immorality. A healthy sexual relationship between husband and wife can help them be faithful to each other. That may not seem terribly romantic, but Paul sees that as a very good thing because, as we saw two weeks ago when we looked at Chapter 6, he sees immorality as a very bad thing. Paul would agree with the fellow who said, "I'm not tempted to steal a Ford Escort parked on the street because I have a Lincoln Continental at home in the garage." In other words, because of his affection for his wife, the man claimed he was not really tempted by other women. Now, certainly being married doesn't mean one is immune from sexual temptation. Many of us here can testify to that. Paul would say, though, that it is obvious that a single person is going to face much stronger temptation than someone who is married.

I will let the points above speak for themselves. I would have to agree with the original poster that emotional intimacy is much more important for a woman to really enjoy sex than for a man. This is a generalization of course and both sexes have their exceptions. I think there are some very important parts in the original scripture quoted above that I would highlight as well. In regard to "marital duty", when we see marriage as a commitment or contract under God, duty starts to make sense. While I don't like that word any more than anyone else, it does send a message that sometimes that's just what it is, a duty and not a choice. Sex is here not only for pleasure but also to keep us away from the temptations we so often face (including masturbation as in this thread!).
I also believe that joint ownership of each other's bodies enforces this ideal, and promotes God's Word in Genesis of "one flesh" in marriage, and yet at the same time, each mate owns their own body, it is a joint ownership, a sort of image of the GodHead and of Christ and His Church. The union here is what is being emphasized, and the real tragedy is that married couples in today's world seldom experience that spiritual unity under God which in turn leads to heightened physical unity (and a desire to meet each other's needs in SF even when one mate may not "feel" like it - "feel" doesn't have anything to do with it). I know Stormie Omartian wrote in her book "The Power of a Praying woman" that pastors are often very attractive to women because of their leadership qualities, ultimate submission to God, and their close relationship with God, it practically makes them irresistible in some ways, my own wife confirmed this assertion in conversation recently. If I want to have more frequent, heightened, physical/sexual relations with my wife, I need to devote more time to my relationship with Jesus Christ. I have since devoted at least 15 minutes and up to 1/2 hour each day to prayer time with Him and I can speak from personal experience that it has reaped more reward than anything else. Please understand I am not saying this devotion of spiritual time was a means to an end to get sex. These verses kind of say what I'm attempting to relay here:

2Ti 2:11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
2Ti 2:12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
2Ti 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Just as I must die to myself in spirit and accept Christ as Savior, and in turn live with Him, so I must also die to myself in marriage, that I may live in harmony with my wife. If I endure in this, we will experience a marriage rich with Blessings. If I instead choose to deny my mate (whether sexually, emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.), then they will deny me. The last verse teaches me that God always remains faithful no matter our faithlessness in Him at times, and as we are made in His image, we must endeavor to learn from His Word and live His Word, so that when my wife or I are faithless to each other at times, we must always try and remain faithful to one another, so that we will bring the other back if we endure. I hear so often of divorces because "we just grew apart", not so, I believe the more accurate statement is "we failed to grow together", or put another way, "we did not die to each other, we each grew in selfishness" (including masturbation) until the end came. I am not trying to say we need to put our need aside 100% of the time, for we as humans simply cannot succeed in doing so at all, our sinful nature would never permit it, that is why we must constantly refresh ourselves under God. I think it's interesting that the only time Paul instructs us to deny one another is when time is set aside for fasting and prayer to God (i.e. not to deny each other for our own selfishness - but for God alone), then we in marriage must come back together so as not to be tempted by the evils around us that we are so susceptible to (masturbation being one of them).
[/POST]

While this post was not specifically about masturbation within marriage, I believe masturbation can be directly wrapped into our need to avoid temptation. For some of us, that temptation travels inward and we sin against our own bodies, for others, we look to OM or OW for the same satisfaction. Both can be equally as devastating to any marriage long term. I can say that as a BAC masturbation and lust problems is a struggling sin area for me. Christ has delivered me from pornography for about a year now and I'm still working through the masturbation issue from time to time, but I can confidently say that my wife honoring God's Word in 1st Corinthians and "die to her own needs" and letting me sometimes use her body when I'm in a weak state has helped me beyond measure. I do agree with KaylaAndy that the POJA applies here, that in the instance where the sex drive varies widely in a marriage, one mate is going to have to sometimes adopt a "duty" attitude. I say "duty" because it's quite obvious that the mate that doesn't have the drive is never going to always feel like having sex, and that's ok. Love is not a feeling, love is a willful choice to put the needs of your mate beyond your own. I've heard and read of many couples who keep waiting for those feelings of "love" to come back before taking additional steps, only to divorce a short time later. Love is the willful choice to move beyond our feelings of the moment and choose to do with our mate what we, frankly, don't at all feel like doing. Choosing to love will create the missing feelings over time, not the other way around. It seems that today's society (not you folks, you all seem very well versed in this stuff already!) is all about our emotions and how we feel when it comes to relationships, not good things to base something on at all. Emotions are temporary, they come and go, often for days, weeks, even years at a time. What a roller coaster ride that would be if that is what a marriage is based upon. Ah well, enough rambling for now...

As a wife....AND some day I hope to be one again...

I think if you don't make masturbation a dirty word and you share in masturbation with your husband then your husband doesn't have to feel shame for doing it. AND I don't buy for a minute that a woman has never masturbated...sorry.

I also think that good sex and openess can strenghten your marriage. If the wife doesn't see masturbation as a dirty word and he does it in front of her, I would doubt he'd feel the need to do it behind closed doors ever. Dito, for the wife as well...

How can you have strong marriages if people are going to be so uptight in bed???

I totally disagree with KaylaAndy although I still respect her view also.

Also, on the flip side, I don't agree with fantasizing about your neighbors or people you truly know either...that's just leading to trouble and cheating in your mind. I have a feeling this is what bothers your wife...more than the act itself.

There's my two cents...

ANNA

[ August 25, 2002, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]

[ August 25, 2002, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]

whoopsie! I've been here a year and still don't know what I am doing....hehe...

[ August 25, 2002, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]

This is too all the women who have something wrong with men masturbating. Men are very different than women it isn't just a sexual act it releases tension and you feel so much better when you are finished. Also do you really think that men would rather masturbate than have the real thing. OF COURSE NOT!!! So if women satisified their men this would not happen as often. It is a completely natural act. All men do it and if they say they don't they do something else...LIE AND CHEAT!!! And if he is thinking about his wife then there is no problem and she ought to feel flattered. Hey I am seperated and that is the only way to get it out without cheating.

I used to have to make an appointment with my xh to have sex. Then I still had to be the initiator while he laid there.

Then, in the midst of saying he wanted a divorce, he told me he had not liked having sex with me and asked if I ever wondered why he spent so long in the shower. That was where he was getting his jollies.

So, if I ever have the joy of marrying again, I will truly be upset if the man spends much time masturbating. Release or no release, it better be me he finds more pleasurable than his own hand-jobs.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cinderella:
he told me he had not liked having sex with me and asked if I ever wondered why he spent so long in the shower. That was where he was getting his jollies. <hr /></blockquote>That sounds like something said to intentionally hurt you.

It sounds like a woman telling her STBX that she's leaving because he's terrible in bed, or because he has a little [censored].

It's probably not true, just a verbal attack.

Cinderella,

I agree with Slappy that the statement was meant to hurt you. I'd even take that a step further and say it was also meant to make him feel better. When people have certain "inadequacies" they like to blame others. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if your ex had problems having sex with ALL women. I would also bet that if you were to ask his new wife/gf if she has to initiate sex, the answer would be a definite "yes!".

Take care,

ANNA

I do believe his words were planned to hurt me. I also believe he fantasized about a number of women - he had at least 2 EAs - while enjoying himself.

It took 18 months or so in SAnon to realized that his problems were his problems. That this problem in our marriage was not caused by my shortcomings. How many men would act like it was a problem to deal with a woman who would fix a fruit/cheese tray complete with a bottle of wine and candles and appropriate attire?

So, in the future, if there is another permanent man in my life, he better understand my problem with masturbation.

And I do wonder what sort of sex life his new w enjoys. If you can enjoy sex with a man who looks 9-months pregnant.

[ September 02, 2002, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: cinderella ]

How about this situation? Would you call this typical male masterbation? My husband likes to use gigantic dildos while watching porn while wearing my bras, slips, and hose. I'm sure he would like to take his fantasies one step further outside the house. He's already had a mlc looking for a girlfriend outside the marriage and he likes to look at yahoo personals for entertainment. You can see how these things keep escalating. It doesn't exactly make me happy, he does this 2 maybe 3 times a week and I'm not sure if I'm going to take it much longer. If this is too graphic, let me know and I'll try to delete it.

Hello,

I'm a new to the boards and this topic caught my attention because I 'caught' my husband masturbating recently. Actually, I heard him in the bathroom as I was walking past. The issue with me is that I became open with him about my own masturbating. I was raised the good Catholic girl and always felt guilty, but when he would ask me, even persist I tell him, my guilt melted away. He really like to know when and how I would do this...I even showed him ; )....

Anyways, when I would ask if he masturbated he would deny..deny..deny..for years! I told him that I must be 'odd' because I like to masturbate and sometimes ya just need that quick release! He still would never share his sexuality openly with me. When I happened to overhear him I felt betrayed...almost like he had this dirty little secret he was keeping from me. I shared so many things with him...embarrassing things...things I fantasized about and such, and I felt he was being completely selfish.

We are working through it. There is only one thing I did tell him though....that if I felt neglected sexually and if I didn't feel 'taken care of' in the physical department then there would be a problem...the same goes for him. There is nothing wrong with masturbating as long as both partners feel fulfilled. As a matter of fact...it can really enhance pleasure. We are not mind readers on what pleases our partners. Just my own thoughts.

kara

Newsflash: In a previous relationship of 6 years, I was the one "releasing" on a regular basis. My spouse then was more committed to drugs than our relationship. For me that also kept me from having other men on the side. So I can relate on a surface level. My h now is very open sexually and there is no boredom in our bedroom. I have learned that it depends on the person.
ymon33@hotmail.com

I was surfing through and this topic caught my attention so I though I throw my two cents in.

I'm not sure when I started masturbating during my marriage. Sex between x and I was a problme soon after we got married. We even went to a sex counselor soon after we were married and they told us neither one liked sex so we were probably evenly matched.

Slowly our sex life deteriorated, my x allegedly had problems with her period, not regular and painful and sex was painful.

Me, on the otherhand, had quick ejactulations, so the event was over pretty quick.

X didn't like oral, either way, and should would do me manually, but it was like a chore for her and took the fun out of it for me.

So for me masturbation was a release of tension, helped me sleep at night and relaxed me. My x never knew to my knowledge.

During business trips, I started stopping at adult bookstores and would stay an hour and then
would go back to the hotel and masturbate.I did this for about a year, probably 8 yrs ago. I finally started worrying about getting caught at a bookstore(not that I was doing anything illegal) so I stopped.

Meanwhile sex went downhill further. It was about once a month. Add to the problem my poor communication skills and we never discussed how disatisfied I was. ABout 4 yeats ago we had sex about once every six weeks. I got conditioned that if I didn't see a glass of wine in her hand, I knew better than to start anything. She had to be drinking to have sex.

Anyway, x has affair, during reconciliation counseling she tells counselor she could have sex with anyone after drinking and also tells me I am bad in bed( really wants a guy to reconcile!).

Anyway reconciliation failed and we are divorced.

Flash forward to today. I have been in two relationships since the divorce were sex was involved. I was so nervous the first time as I was believing my x plus my history of "quickness."

Well lo and behold, I was fine. I was even able to give the woman an O.

I am now involved in a long term relationship and the sex is great. It is a long distance relationship so we only see each other about every two weeks.

But I've noticed, I am sexually fulfilled and don't feel the need to masturbate.

So in my experince it had to do with sexual fulfillment more than anything. I actually enjoy sex now. For a long time I wondered what the fuss was.

What a topic!!! Masturbation, choking the chicken, pulling the pud...Guess some come from a long line of pud pullers...LOL Enough of my humor.

For me, and only me if the choice was masturbation or sex in one of its many forms with my wife, the answer is always with my wife. She is really talented in a number of SF areas and her willingness to please is second to none. However, if she is not available, it is mine after all...LOL

I agree with Anna, there is nothing wrong with masturbation as long as it doesn't interfere with the relationship. In fact, my W and I were always open about our masturbation. It actually turned us both on to talk about it to eachother. I had the same problem as RWD about "early release", and found that if I did mast. when I knew we were going to have SF, I was able to work longer, so it actually enhanced our sex life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wow. What an interesting thread this is. I'm gonna add my .02 here.

My husbands sexual needs are much more powerful than mine. We have sex almost daily and sometimes twice (or more) a day. He still "needs" more. At 47 he has the sex drive of a 16 year old. So, he masturbates. No problem to me. I know it's not taking him away from me. OW did that. I also know that when he masturbates he is fantasizing about me. He has told me this and I believe him. He loves it if I just come in and watch.

OK, it doesn't really turn me on to watch, but if it makes him happy, why not? I'll even lend a hand frequently (pun intended - hey what's the point if you can't laugh). He's my H. I love him dearly. I know his need is stronger than mine. This makes both of us happy. We still have an extremely active and satisfying sex life.

And yes, I masturbate too. Something he introduced me to and for which I will always be grateful. He gets totally turned on watching me and it comes in handy (giggle) when one or the other of us is traveling, sick, whatever.

My advice would be to try to talk to your wife gently about your need to masturbate. Reassure her that it is taking nothing from her, as this seems to be a big issue judging from the posts here. The issue of whether or not masturbation is a sin is something I won't touch. A persons religous views are very personal and very difficult to change.

Good luck to you.

What the heck...here's my thoughts...

I do see the point of those who state masturbating robs a relationship, provided both partners are interested or physicially capable of sex. The only issue I'd present to said people is where the spouse is unable or has diminished libido due to medical reasons. For example, my wife has Lupus which amongst its many symptoms, often robs her of libido. When faced with that dilemma, I believe masturbation is an acceptable sexual outlet. If I remember correctly, even the great C.S. Lewis referred to masturbation as a grey area. His wife, as we know, died of cancer. It certainly is much more acceptable than a physical affair.

When she is feeling good (which anymore is rare), one thing we love to do for each other is masturbate for the other's "viewing pleasure". In this context, I feel it is a love builder.

OK, I'm a couple weeks late on this but I'm amazed at how many people think so badly of masturbation. Pretty much every sex therapist says it's a healthy part of a good relationship. I think a man masturbating is a tremendous turn-on and am really astonished at how many people don't.

Oh well, different strokes for different folks, I guess <weg>.

WOW! I'm rather late joining in on this also but here it goes. It was a big turn on for me to watch X masturbate but I rarely got a show. It was more for his release when I was not interested (post-children) and it never bothered me. But in the pre-baby days, we'd spice up a long car drive by giving each other hand jobs or I'd "hum him a tune." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> For me, it was all about enjoying HIM as a sexual human being, even when I couldn't be comfortable enough with myself to be there with him.

Ah, memories...
I miss him.

Mrs. Debra,
I empathize with you. We are both in the same boat. Here is my dilema, it was two days ago, that i left my boyfriend, (we are commonm-law)I am back now. I had told him beofre that his looking and watching porn hurts me. It is damaged our relationship. He got rid of his cd collection, (downloaded porn movies) he has cut all of them in half, because he doesn't want to lose me to his addiction, but it was so bad, he would stay up late at night, wait for me to go to bed, then he would watch porn! Then I would ask him about it, and he would deny it! I'm no fool, I know what he taped on the vcr. It has caused him to be deceitful to me, porn belittles me, and the importance of intamacy in our relationship. It robes us of those things. To all the men who say it does not affect your relationship, that's it's "animal instinct" just think of how much it hurts for a women like me, who has a very strong sex drive, to lie in bed, and wait for my man to come in, only when he does, he puts his arm around me, and falls asleep! I don't even want him to touch me, after he has looked at all those women...there is no excuse, because i am sexually available to him, 24/7!!! So, porn is addictive, and it can lead to the destruction of a relationship. "you can't go swimming, and not get wet, you can't play with fire, and not get burned"Cut the crap about statistics, it comes down to self control, and respect for the partner you are with. Porn affects people, it gets embedded in their minds, and soon "regular porn" isn't good enough, so they move on to worse things.(beastiality, scat, BDSM,) I hate the world, how else can they twist, and damage a healthy relationship?? They always try to suceed, just watch TV, they have desensitized us to infidelity, they are trying to program us to think that "men just can't help themselves" I will not be passive, I will not hurt any longer, saving myself and being healthy is worth more then hurting on the inside, and feeling sick about it just to "save" my relationship and looking away from what he is doing. He not only hurts me, he is missing out on what sex was intended for. I have come back to help him with this, i will stand by him, but if there are no changes, then I will know in his heart, he is not commited to change, and the relationship is not as important to him as it is to me.
W_winds

Hello again,
i just wanted to clairify, I don't mind my boyfriend masterbating, heck, I'd do it with him! I have no problem, or am not inhibited in the bedroom, (or any where else in the house for that matter!) *evil grin* Just not while watching porn, there are so many reasons! The fact that he is supporting prostitution for one thing, should make a woman stop and think anytime! *The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.
The act or an instance of offering or devoting one's talent to an unworthy use or cause.* That is the dictionary's meaning, not my own. :)If one is paying to watch porn then, you are supporting it.
W_winds

I guess I will add my thoughts on this issue:
While I feel there is nothing wrong with "Ming", be it if you are a man or woman, I do feel when it takes the place of a willing partner it becomes a big issue.

My S would M 3-4 times posssibly more a week but would not be intimate with me for months. When I discussed the this with him he found "NO problem" with this behavior which I thought was odd seeing as if a woman would neglect her mate for a battery operated device I am sure there would be a problem. So it was like he was having an A with his hand. I tried discussing that we agreed for him not to hide the fact but at least tell me and that we needed to find a basis as to why he would prefer that to his mate. He did not use porn.

Also, my mate had a sever problem with premature E, but not when he was Ming, I never used that against him and said we could work on it together, he just would not make it a priority therefore remaining in the came cycle. When we did have sex he loved it, and then look depressed because he "E" within 2 minutes or less.

I never put him down or made him feel inadequate about anything sexually we did, but after 3 years of going through this, it really broke my heart that he started cheating on me in Oct/2002, and moved out, blaming me for him cheating and that nothing ever made me happy.

Kayla-

PLEASE! If you are telling all of adults at Marriage Builders you have never touched yourself, then there are three things we can discern from that:

#1- You think we are all stupid
#2- You are not being honest
#3- Your Significant other doesn't think you have some annoying habits of your own.

The POJA and the Rule of Protection DO in fact matter. But here are the facts mam...Masturbating is NOT-NOT-NOT-NOT cheating. It is in fact healthy.

Sorry Kayla...You are wrong

I think that you may just be a normal male human, I don't understand why male humans were designed with a higher sex drive than females but that is the way it seems to be, too much emphasis has been made out of who is getting how much and in what position and how often, it is a personal thing between the two of you so forget what others are doing or not doing, a viagra for women should have been invented before the male version to close the gap between our sex drives.If your wife is uncomfortable with it something has to be done, no part of our lives should make our spouse uncomfortable, nothing should be hidden and no lies told, she needs you to discuss the topic in more detail, reasure her that it does not reflect on her as a wife/partner/mate. If you are at it constantly and have a house full of pornograpy and you spend all your time at nudey bars and one night stands I would advise her to pack her back OR YOURS but I think discussion could sort this out for you, maybe even a chat with a Dr could help her understand the male body more? good luck.

Thankyou rlyhurtin,
Yours was the only post I missed reading before I had posted my comment, you were rather blunt but I also took a long way around, do you agree that if it dosn't consist of a house full of porn, topless bars, feeling up the office girl and it dosn't intrude on family activites it shouldn't be a problem, but we must respect his W, maybe she had a protected childhood and the moral/religous or go blind thing was how she was raised?

Interesting thread. My thoughts on the subeject:

When I was younger, solitary masturbation (done alone, and without the approval or knowledge of your partner) and the pornography used to fuel it, never bothered me. It was something men - all men, including those I had a sexual relationship with - needed. I didn't fully understand it - pleasuring myself was about as appealing to me as a romantic dinner for one at the most expensive hotel in town - but I wasn't about to make a fuss or make him feel guilty for doing it.

However, my H's masturbation DID have a direct effect on our sex life.

I like to feel "in sync" sexually... when I go to bed at the end of the day and WANT sex, I'd like my H to WANT sex too. But what if he just got out of a very... um... satisfying... shower and wasn't interested? Or if he was interested, it was like beating a very tired horse to the finish line? And what about the flip side of the coin - those days when he just didn't have a chance to take care of himself so his reactions were faster and more intense?

I was at a disadvantage. I didn't know IF I should initiate, never mind WHEN. I didn't know HOW to have sex with him - I could do the SAME thing three times and get three totally different responses! Believe it or not, for a very long time I thought he didn't like BJ's (I couldn't believe it either) because he stopped me the first time I tried - it was too intense for him.

What did he need from me? I felt like I was inadequate. Not because I wasn't willing... but because I couldn't intuit what he needed. Meanwhile, H is looking at Sexpot Barbie, getting off on his own, and telling me, this is "normal" and had nothing to do with me, or "us". I was not his sexual *partner*, I was an OPTION on his sexual menu, competing with a magazine, computer porn, or a hot shower. Without even realizing it, I responded accordingly. More and more, I climbed into bed exhausted from a day of job and kids and cooking and cleaning, and thought, 'you don't need ME. do it yourself now, too'

If you asked me, at the time, I never would have blamed my growing indifference on masturbation because I believed so firmly that it was a normal part of all relationships. It was my H who picked up on it. He read an article about the damaging effects of porn and masturbation and he told me about it. It made sense. So he stopped (what the heck, if it didn't give results he could always go back, eh?) and put his sexual needs in MY hands.

I have to tell you, it is AWESOME! I know what he needs! I UNDERSTAND! I am in tune with him and him with me, and I do all I can to satisfy him. I don't say my H will NEVER pleasure himself again - lets be practical, I don't expect him to suffer discomfort if I am genuinely indisposed or unavailable - but as a day to day thing, M is off the menu.

You see, KaylaAndy is right. Yes, it is YOUR body, and sexual release is normal and needed, and masturbation IS easier than working on your relationship to achieve mutual SF. But as she said, this is a Marriage BUILDERS website. If you TRULY live by MB principles and WANT to make your partner happy, and she wants to make YOU happy too... then sexual activity outside the partnership is a MAJOR impediment.

I love my wife. The insight she brings to this discussion comes from our relationship, which is the same place my insight comes from.

I didn't enter this relationship with the understanding of how damaging sex out of bounds can be, in any form. When I was a youth, and discovered masturbation, I asked my father about it; and he said, "It's ok, as long as you don't do it too much."

"Too much" was never defined. Did that mean twice a year; twice a month, or twice an hour?

So what's at the core of this issue? If you ask me, Slappy has it in his signature line: "Connection". If we truly want to find the "rainbow connection" and be the lovers we dream of, and have the marriages we desire with all our hearts, then we have to both set and accept limits and boundaries. Masturbation, just like pornography, can become compulsive and obsessive. The only protection is setting limits and boundaries, which you could call a "covenant relationship". Or, a Policy of Joint Agreement.

I like to think of sex as a fire, which can either consume, or purify. The difference between whether it consumes or purifies depends on whether it's kept inside or outside the furnace. Inside the furnace, it warms the house. Outside the furnace, it burns the house down. So what's our policy of joint agreement on masturbation? It's an acceptable part of our lovemaking and foreplay. It's something we share with each other. It's something I'm happy to both give and receive.

I'm sorry that I never knew how damaging it is, to developing a real connection in a marriage, to take matters into my own hands and out of her hands where I belong. My wife is quite capable of making me happy, and satisfying me far more than I could ever satisfy myself. If I lay my right to satisfy myself on the altar, I am rewarded 100-fold.

My reality is this: self-sex is cheating... on myself, and denies me the option for a truly connected sexual relationship and close intimate bond with the woman in my life.

End of story.

I think it comes down to the issue of integrity. If I do not keep my own integrity then when I enter the relationship I am already at a disadvantage to make a real connection. The connection I seek starts with keeping my own integrity. Without a foundation of integrity there is not hope for true intimacy and there will be only strife. These are the things my father never told me because my father didn't know. At some point I have to accept that just because Dad didn't know it doesn't mean I do not have a responsibility to learn it.

I have lived on both sides of this issue. My life is much happier when I keep my integrity.

Does Kayla have annoying behaviors? sure. This mastrubation issue is not however simply an annoying behavior. It is core and foundational because it deals with basic integrity. In that regard Kayla has her act together and anyone who says otherwise can answer to me. I live with her. I know. She is not wrong on this she is right on the money. Whatever other troubles we may have this part of our relationship works and we see eye to eye on it. We both keep the same standard and save ourselves for each other. I find both strength and comfort in this. It is strength to my mind and rest to my soul. My pitable father never had it so good.

One thing I can assure you. When my son asks me about this as no doubt one day he will. He will not get the same sort of double-speak nonsense I got from my father. He will get the truth. He will hear that integrity is the foundation of a good relationship and that integrity starts with himself and keeping himself chaste in thought and action and reserving himself for his future wife alone. I will also tell him that it's worth it to do so at whatever sacrafice he may feel it to be. if he has to separate himself from sociality that does not hold this standard then he is better off picking friends who are people of integrity and chaste than trying to rationalize and justify himself with the insane and the foolish people who deny truth when they hear it. Such friends are an encumberance to living joyfully and he is better off without them. There are people of integrity in this world and he is worth associating with them and keeping himself pure. This is the very foundation of happiness. Ignoring or denying it is the foundation of unhappiness. This is one punch I will not pull.

It has never hurt me to bridle my passions and restrain my sexual urges and keep the fire within the furnace. It has never failed to harm me and others when I have not. This thing is as certain as the sun rising in the morning. Consequences for violating these boundaries are completely predictable. Honoring self integrity is the path to happiness and fulfillment and dishonoring self integrity is the path to despair and heartbreak. As I said. I've known both sides of this. I've "done the research" and now I'll spend the rest of my life making the amends. Some things I cannot make amends for. The lost time in our early marriage where had I but followed this present path we might have had emotional security and made a happier family and the children that might have come to us to bless our home.

Much of the joy we might have had in our lives is forever lost and all I can do is go forward from this point with resolve to learn from the mistakes of the past and not repeat the same patterns that ruined our lives in the past. I wasted much of my strength as a man in this lost and lonely way and gained nothing for it. I will not now waste any more of the present strength or strength I may be given in the future. I owe myself and my wife and my son this fidelity and with God's help I shall keep this vow. I was never given this fidelity from my father and suffered much strife and grief and loss for it. but I shall give it to my son and to my posterity.

take what helps and leave the rest.

[ January 15, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]

oops....double post...too many buttons.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> where is the delete option? crap I can't delete this can I. ick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hey? Why can't I delete my own posts?!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

[ January 15, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]

Kasey, well said... in fact, it was worth saying twice. ;-)

I think that as long as masterbation is not taking the place of a married couple's sex life it is ok. We may be married to our spouces, but we do not "own" them. You can not control what another person thinks about has fantasies about. We are individuals! I would rather my h let his little imagination run wild while his in the men's room at work at 3 am as long as it stays there in the bathroom, then have him watch porn or say things that he knows repulse me in the bedroom. As long as that is as far as it goes, who cares? Don't get me wrong, I am aganist my h watching porn, going to strip bars or drooling over other women...but I do not own his mind. He can think whatever he wants as long as he doesn't do...and I think we have a good understanding about this. My h does occasionally tell me that he masterbates on nights where we got hot and heavy before he left for work and couldn't "finish".....he always says he thought about me...I'd like to think that is true...but even if he was thinking about Pam Anderson...thats his perogative and I am not here to control him, only to love him and for him to love me.
melissa