I guess my question for you is: Does your ex help with discipline or at least back you up in these situations or is he uninvolved?

Help with discipline - no
Back me up - no
Uninvolved - yes

That's why this is more difficult. I am 100% the parent right now. XH doesn't even take her on weekends or anything. She's not spent any time with him except part of a lunch hour on 12/17 since sometime in November.

Yes, XH and OW did offer to let my daughter live with them. I'm not sure what they would have done with her. Irrelevant, as my daughter chose to stay here.

LL

DD update: After being on house arrest all day yesterday (I did allow two very brief phone calls to her boyfriend - though I stood in her room while she talked), she has been granted freedom and another chance today.

She went with me to my parents' today for our belated Christmas, and she was pleasant. I dropped her off at her boyfriend's place at 4pm with instructions that her curfew is 12:30am (because she's going to a show he plays in, because I'm not working this week, and because she's not in school).

I told her if she is the least bit late, I don't care if it's 15 minutes late, if I've not pre-okayed it, she will suffer the same consequences though they will last longer than a day and there may not be any calls allowed.

Also told her if for some reason she thought she was going to be late (lack of ride, etc), that my phone better ring by midnight and I'll come pick her up.

I have phone numbers for several of her main contacts, though she still has to show me where the one guy lives where they often hang out. She doesn't know the street address...just how to get there. Typical for her--she, like me, gets around using landmarks.

So we'll see what happens tonight. I doubt the one day lockdown solved any major issues, but I'm going to try and stay on her.

My bedroom door will remain locked when I'm not in it (if anyone is in the house other than me) regardless of how she is acting, unless I've given specific permission for her to be there and I'm able to supervise.

And I keep slightly revising my "New Years Revolution" (house rules) but plan to have them posted probably on the refrigerator as suggested, plus a few other places, by 12/31.

Did I do okay for the last 24 hours?

LL

Elan, you said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Tell her if she starts cutting you will have her committed. PERIOD. Get her into counselling! Even threatening to cut herself is a cry out for help.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh how I wish I COULD have something done. Know what is REALLY frustrating?? When the cutting was first discovered last March, I was working with a therapist (which by the way, has been basically ineffective--we've seen several and my daughter refuses to open up to any of them). The school saw her cuts and called the Dept of Human Services. I was told to immediately take her to to a psych hospital to be evaluated.

I willingly complied. Took her in that night. Admitting person talked to pediatric psychiatrist (who has actually worked with her in the past) who said "Outpatient therapy isn't working. Need to admit her before her cutting gets worse."

Long, painful parting of her and I. Lots of tears, but I knew I did the right thing. Went home, got several days worth of clothes, dropped them off, told her I loved her, and left.

Guess what?! Next day, the hospital calls me around noon and says, "Come get your daughter. She's been discharged."

Huh?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yep! Insurance decided she wasn't suicidal or homocidal, and since she doesn't fit those two categories, she can make due with outpatient treatment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And what's even better, I am currently appealing the 1,800 bill from the hospital because insurance denied it saying she shouldn't have been admitted in the first place, thus it wasn't covered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I've sent a long letter and pictures of her arms to the insurance company. If I fail at my first appeal, the second is going with a copy to our state's Department of Insurance. So far, I've heard nothing, nor has insurance paid anything. But at least hospital has currently suspended the collection threats since it's in appeal.

Frustrating!!! Really, REALLY frustrating. My insurance pays for 30 days inpatient mental health/substance abuse per year, and 20 sessions of outpatient therapy (which is peanuts!). But I can't use the inpatient because it's obvious she's not trying to take her life. She's just cutting as a very bad (and scar-producing) way to vent her emotions.

LL

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>

Did I do okay for the last 24 hours?

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL, I know I probably seem to be a pretty big a-hole to you, but you are doing splendidly.

LL --> YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!

Remember.....consequences...and also consistency. Tatoo those two words on your body somewhere! (hahahaha.... seriously though you are doing great)

As for the medical -- I am not in the US, so I can not relate to the medical costs. I understand though that for Americans it is horrendous to fight the system down there. I am very grateful I live in Canada where the healthcare is easier to access.

One thing though...about counselling, my son was ordered to go and MOST times he sat there and said NOTHING. Was sullen and the like...it took MONTHS before he started opening up. The counsellor would sit there and say "OK, I understand you don't want to talk, want to play cards or something?" If anything, it showed him that someone CARED about him...and when he was READY he did open up. It did help him in the end. Frustrating for MOI having to wait for him to open up. Counsellor did not discuss anything with me, but did help my son cope with his dad.

Sometimes LL you have to let go. My son lives with Dad and has for the past 5 years. For him it was easier because dad gave him the "you don't care about me" line of bull****. He gets to do anything he wants, no responsibilities etc. He is going through the same that the oldest has gone through. I tell you this, it does come around. As hard as it is to believe right now (I remember a girlfriend telling ME the same thing and I didn't believe her! lol). Work on YOU -- and what is important to YOU (your privacy, your rules in your home) and don't waiver on your core values and beliefs. It doesn't mean that you can't bend or negotiate, but once that young lady knows that you are not giving into her every whim, it's the first step towards independence.

I too have a 16 year old living at home. Life with her is MUCH different than the hell I went through with the older two. I think now I am most likely a better parent than I was with the older two. My ex does NOTHING to help and co-parenting is not in his vocabulary. If I tell him that running without shoes over glass most likely will cut, he would say that it would make a better human out of you. Everything for him is a challenge. If it's illegal, he'll do his damndest to convince others it's just a guideline for people too chicken to challenge it. You know what I mean? Parenting with a person like that is damn near impossible.

Harder still is having a parent who will do anything to spite the other parent laying the foundation for children to become better human beings. It's hard setting down rules. He is drawing your daughter to him with promises of a *better* home and *better* rules....blah blah blah ad naseum. Sometimes you have to let them go if what they are doing in your home is destructive and dangerous. I don't wish harm on you or your daughter, BUT if there is a point when you can't take it anymore and despite all YOUR efforts and efforts of the counsellors/doctors/lawyers etc...... you have to let her go. She has to face up to the consequences of her actions WITHOUT you. Sometimes you have to let them fall down before you can help them build up again. Clearly let her know that you are there for her and that you love her. Let her know that your rules are OPEN for discussion but not up to her to change. That you WILL consider what she has to say and work from there. If I didn't do that with the youngest, she would have been to Daddy Dearests by now.

My oldest -- is on her own and is a wonderful young lady. She is kind, considerate and is working towards a successful career. All those lessons that I taught her through our battles are there!!! Every lesson that I thought she didn't *get* she gets! It's amazing I tell you!

My son -- living with daddy -- has turned a corner now. He is more communicative, spends more time with *us* (his sisters and I) and is respectful. There were MANY weekends when I turned around and drove him home before he even STEPPED in our house because he was being a little jerk (abusive and hitting his younger sister, telling me I was a b*tch and that I am *lucky* for having him come for the weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). It didn't take too many drives back to his father's before he realized I wasn't going to put up with his ****. This past Christmas was the BEST Christmas EVER. I don't think I EVER got as many hugs and kisses since. He has been calling and wanting to "talk" and tells me how much he appreciates me. Don't get me wrong, my guard is STILL up with that young man for he has done enough damage (stealing paperwork for his father from MY house to present in court). Oh yes...but you know, he too will finally get it one day.

The youngest -- I have my challenges with her, but honestly -- there are days when I ask the good Lord how I was blessed to have such a wonderful teenager. I can ONLY attribute it to the help of friends and people from MB for helping ME keep my head on straight. There are many days where I hear advice I'd rather not hear and of course feel like I have to defend myself....but I have to really look and digest what people tell me and apply what works to my life. When I am at my wits end and I have NO WHERE to turn, MB has time and time again saved my sanity and helped me along the way. I'll NEVER be out of the woods with my ex. Til the end of my days he will be harassing me and hurting the children regardless of how old they are. I realize that he's a very sick man and that he will NEVER change.

Do whatever it is you HAVE to do to keep your daughter safe. When you are losing it, reach out to whatever resources you have. Join a parenting class, find out what kind of resources they have in your city for parents of out of control teens. You may not think she's *that bad* and you will be happy to know that she's not...but the support and advice you hear in support groups will prepare you for the next battle you have to face with her. She will grow out of it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Prepare yourself for the grey hairs you get as a result and be proud of ALL your work thus far! Chin up and keep working at it!!!!!!!!!

Well, New Year's Eve actually had the potential to end on a fairly good note, but my daughter decided to screw it up!

After doing well for two days (I know...not a lot, but for her, a start), she #1) totally blew off her curfew tonight and #2) didn't bother calling me.

The only thing she still has going for her at this moment is that she answered the cell when I called her at 1:30am. She is at some other girl's house and all I know is that the girl's first name is Larissa.

I know her excuse tomorrow will be "Sorry! (in an un-sorry tone) But Mom, it was New Year's Eve. A curfew is stupid!" But in my eyes, this night was one that was more important than ever to be in when I told her.

I told her I was very disappointed in her for totally blowing off my rules, but at this point I'm not going to speak of punishment to her or she might shut the phone off and stay away longer.

She says she will be home by 12:30pm tomorrow afternoon. She sounds a bit lispy, like she's been drinking and is trying to cover. I want her to stay safe, and if she won't tell me where she is so that I can go get her, I just want her to not go anywhere at all.

But...what do I do when she gets home? I am very, very angry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> And very disappointed! Seems I'll have to ramp up the consequences, and I only have two more days and then I'm back to work.

Anyone up for giving me "consequence" ideas here???

LL

I'm sitting here thinking how fortunate I am.

My 19 year old daughter is away at college, and called last night BEFORE MIDNIGHT to wish me a Happy New Year, and let me know she was safe at home.

I NEVER had a curfew for her, nights out and times due home were set on an individual basis - the agreement was "Tell me where you will be, what you will be doing, and when you will be home. If I object - you don't go."

ONCE after she was 16, she fell asleep during a movie at a friend's home and didn't get home on time (I didn't have the friend's unlisted number - but knew where they lived). When she woke up late, she called and was immediately on her way home. Friend's mom confirmed they fell asleep on the couch before the movie was over.

She got a job when she was 14.

I have another 14 year old now. She earns her own spending money. Curfew is the same agreement as with her sister. She doesn't have a cell phone, but uses mine when she's going out, and I've never had to search for her.

CHORES are a requirement, from the time they can fold underwear, pick up toys, or set the table - without ANY allowance. They earn money by doing things that are NOT chores, or working for someone else. My 11 year old shovels snow, rakes yards, and collects cans for his spending money. My 9 year old wrote a book.

I'm not writing this to say I'm a better mom - I'm writing this to share that life does NOT have to be a FREE LUNCH for the kid, just because you are divorced. What kind of wife is this girl going to be when she is an adult and gets married? Please DO NOT introduce her to MY SON!

Jan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>I am very, very angry!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What did you expect? Honestly, the only person you have the right to be angry at right now is yourself for allowing her to go out (get drunk and who knows what else) on New Year's and expecting something different.....

She did EXACTLY what YOU should of expected her to do. Over the past weeks you've gotten some good suggestions and even "temporarily" implemented some of them. But she didn't get his way over night and it won't change overnight. She needs structure and discipline on a continual basis, not for 2 days.

*seekingjoy*,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What kind of wife is this girl going to be when she is an adult and gets married? Please DO NOT introduce her to MY SON! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I rarely take offense at what is said to me because I realize it's meant to help me, but I truly did at that one. I asked for advice on how to help her--not to be reminded what a f-up she was and how I should keep her away from all the "good" children so as not to corrupt them!

I have the feeling you think I'm a sleezy low-life mom who has just let her kids run wild and doesn't give a crap about them.

Well, mind you I have a son who is also in college. Short of some minor back-talking during the middle of his teens, he has caused scant little trouble. He has been in no trouble with the law short of a couple speeding tickets. He has worked at McDonalds part time since he was 15. He is now a shift supervisor. He graduated with honors from high school, was an officer in National Honor Society, and entered college at the University of Iowa at sophomore status and was accepted into the honors program due to all his A/P credits.

Admitted, he can lazy and self-centered. But he grew up with an alcoholic father who, though he worked hard and held a job and provided financially, thought only of himself and expected me to work full time, do 100% of the parenting, housework, bills, shopping, cleaining, etc and who didn't help nor did he support getting the kids to help. So the selfishness and laziness were things that both kids were taught and something they'll have to un-learn. (It can be done. My mom stayed at home and never made us do anything growing up. While it was a shock initially to have to my own stuff when I moved out, I adapted.)

The defiant behavior in my daughter, though you may disgree, is not entirely my doing as a sucky mother. She has severe ADHD. Perhaps it came from her having to have surgery 6 hours after birth and being put on a ventilator for a while. She did have a traumatic entrance. Perhaps it just happened. Perhaps you think ADHD is just a made-up term for delinquent children.

Read up on ADHD--you are obviously not familiar with what kind of behavior it causes. I am happy that you have perfect kids, but I am willing to bet they aren't the norm.

Sorry, I'm feeling rather beaten at this moment and am defensive.

LL

((LL))

Did she make it home? And what did you do?

LH,

Didn't get quite as defensive at your comments...

However, in answer to them...I guess I'm stupid. (Well, I know I am based on how many mistakes I've made in my life and how I ultimately lost my husband, but that's a story for a different thread.)

Because she had done a good job meeting curfew and had helped some around the house, even if only for 2 days, letting her go out on New Year's Eve was a reward for the better behavior (because I've had it drilled into my head over and over by therapists that you can't just "punish" an ADHD child, but you have to work with rewards, too).

It was also a test to see if she could keep it up. Obviously she couldn't.

She knows she's in trouble now and I doubt she'll be home until quite a bit later. The roads are a sheet of ice after today's freezing rain. My son has already run my car into a curb--hopefully he didn't ruin a $500 aluminum wheel. I don't really want some teenager driving my daughter home from the other side of the city yet, anyway.

But once she is home, I'm not sure what to do. Taking phone and computer priviledges will be a start. I won't be able to leave my house until Monday morning when I go to work, if I want to ensure she doesn't split (which means no church for the 2nd week in a row).

So Monday she goes back to school. What then?

I have figured out that if I have to give up my parental rights and let the State have her (aka admit to them I'm a loser and that I suck at parenting), if I can stall having to pay them until about June (which I doubt--so hello credit card debt), when I change jobs I'll be able to roll my 401k into an IRA, and then I can pull a big chuck of it, pay the IRS penalty, and use the remaining 60% to live on until she turns 18 and I'm done paying support to the state.

I need to adopt my sisters's motto: Who needs retirement $ anyway. There's no guarantee we'll live to see retirement--just as well use the $ now if I need it.

I'll still have a little $ left if this all happens. I can't pull my company stock for 1.5 years, as long as they don't go under in that time (and they're doing great--they're a retirement community management company and there are a LOT of rich retirees in the US.).

LL

And as a note to all of you thinking "boy, she can't spell or type!"....

Nope...can't spell. I'm an accountant. We do numbers.

But--my keyboard is dying an agonizing death and I'm having to hammer the heck out of it to get certain keys and the space bar to work. So just use your imagination if something is screwed up because I'm tired of trying to edit. K??

LL

“””Didn't get quite as defensive at your comments...”””

Good because when you get defensive you shut your ears.

”””I guess I'm stupid.”””

WHO SAID THAT….? I don’t think anyone here has said that, but maybe I’m wrong. But I will say that you do have a pattern of behaviour that enables people to do bad things, which is typical for the spouse of an alcoholic. And now, IMHO, you are enabling your daughter. It’s not that you’re a bad person, a bad mom, or stupid.

”””Because she had done a good job meeting curfew and had helped some around the house, even if only for 2 days, letting her go out on New Year's Eve was a reward for the better behavior (because I've had it drilled into my head over and over by therapists that you can't just "punish" an ADHD child, but you have to work with rewards, too).”””

That’s probably true. But in all honesty, the reward you chose set her up and enabled her to continue the exact same behavior.

”””It was also a test to see if she could keep it up.”””

I don’t think I would use tests that involve partying, drinking, and who knows.

”””She knows she's in trouble now and I doubt she'll be home until quite a bit later.”””

I thought she was going to be home at 12:30? As night falls the roads are only going to get worse.

“””I don't really want some teenager driving my daughter home from the other side of the city yet, anyway.”””

Then get in your car and GO GET HER.

”””But once she is home, I'm not sure what to do.”””

I don’t either. You’ve allowed this to go to such extremes; I don’t know how you can reel her in. I can’t even imagine. It’s just gone soooo far.

“””Taking phone and computer privileges will be a start.”””

How does that keep her from drinking, having sex, doing drugs or anything else. Plus last time you took away the phone you let her use it anyway.

“””I want to ensure she doesn't split”””

Why not take a minute and help her pack her bags. If she can’t conform then she no longer has a place to live.

I'm sorry you were offended.

I don't think of you as a sleezy low life, just a mom who is willing to GIVE HER KIDS *STUFF* instead of focusing on teaching them responsibility. If I'm wrong about that - I'm sorry - but I got the idea from your post here.

Congratulations on your son. He sounds like a fine young man!

My ex wasn't an alcoholic, but he was/is an absentee father who doesn't pay ANY child support. He also wanted to be waited on hand and foot when he was home. I didn't do it. I didn't allow my children to do it then - nor do I allow that now.

I have an ADHD child. We focus and discipline (and I don't mean abuse). I insist on him taking responsibility for his actions, and if he isn't then he looses privileges. He doesn't have a lot of "STUFF" and he also has to earn his own money.

I am familiar with ADHD and the behaviors it creates. I started a lot earlier with mine - and I have more control than most. I'm a WORK from home mom, and I home school. Diet/behavior/friends/etc. are more easily controlled in my situation. But it is a choice you could be making too.

Starting later doesn't mean it's impossible to change the situation.

IF you would like suggestions - my email is at the bottom of the post --- I'll be happy to offer some helpful information about either a stay at home job or working with children.

Blessings,

Jan

She didn't come home at 12:30 because I told her to hold off a couple hours. It was supposed to rain, which would have melted things. Problem is, it never did, so it's still really slick.

She is on the road now, though they were having major problems when she called. As for going and getting her--can't if I don't know where she is, and she refused to tell me because she's afraid I'll harass her at her friend's.

Stupid--I can deem myself to be stupid if I want. I feel stupid a good share of the time--always doing the wrong thing and realizing it in hindsight. If I were smart, I would know what to do.

As for stuff--most of my DD's is broken or ruined. Christmas consisted of a new cheapie stereo for $28, a coat she desparately needed, a little money, and some bath stuff in her stocking.

I rarely buy her clothes. She gets most at Goodwill. She hates "material things" and so other than some makeup, she desires little. Her priviledge is being able to go out with her friends. So I can't "reward" her with a material thing. She doesn't care and has never cared. This is why, I believe, she treats everything of mine so poorly. She really doesn't see any value to material items and is content with junk, so she can't see why others make such a big deal out of it either.

Her entire life revolves around her friends--her social life. And they aren't into status and designer things either. They all do the Goodwill thing.

She won't "earn" money--have tried that many times. If she can't just get it from me, she goes to her friends and has them pay her way for things. She seems to be very successful at this. Her boyfriend takes her out to expensive places to eat frequently--his grandmother, who has $, pays. Hard to compete, so I don't.

Admittly right now, not sure why, but I'm feeling mighty low. Maybe because I've been off work all week and haven't done anything I set out to do. I can't organize my own life. Can't keep a husband--he's probably off getting lucky with his new wife-to-be while I'm sitting here in the dark typing on my broken keyboard.

-----------------------------------------------

She just got home.

LL

*seekingjoy*

I probably shouldn't have made an assumption about your knowledge of ADHD, but I get very frustrated when I feel like people are saying their kids are perfect because they've done parenting right and my kid is screwed up because I screwed up parenting.

While I think parenting style is very important and has played a certain part in DD's development, I also believe part of how a child turns out has to do with their individual personality, too. That's why I cited my son. While he isn't perfect, he falls well within the range of normal. Both kids lived in the same house and experienced the exact same parenting.

I also think that being home with your child and/or home schooling also plays a big part and I carry a huge amount of guilt for not dropping everything to be there for my daughter when she was younger.

I worked out of necessity initially. It would have been very difficult for me to be a stay-at-home mom with my husband making $10,500/year as an auto mechanic which was what he was making when our son was born 18 years ago. And because my salary increased faster than his did, and I had all the fringe benefits, I continued to work and have been there for 19 years now.

I don't see a need at this point to try and stay at home and work and home school. Disagree if you wish, but my daughter is 15 1/2. I have only an AA degree (another thing that makes me stupid--graduating valedictorian of my albeit small class and then choosing to get married and have a family instead of continuing my schooling). And my skills are in private industry accounting. I have not and do not do taxes.

There were times as DD started to struggle when I asked my husband if I could take a different job and cut back on my hours and if we could make lifestyle cuts so that I could spend more time being involved in her schooling. Both he and the kids said "no", they did NOT want a change in lifestyle. So I did what I thought I was supposed to do as a good wife and I made him happy. Also, he can't get good health insurance through his company (in fact, he has none since our DV because he's off my plan and his employer keeps telling him "the paperwork hasn't come through" for his insurance), so I always carried the family health insurance and our retirement savings plan thru my company. He had nothing.

I have health issues ranging from surgery for precancerous changes, to digestive issues bordering on ulcers, to my everpresent since the mid-90's and sometimes very annoying heart arrhythmias. Oh yeah, and I'm a frequent migraine sufferer who takes Imitrex to be able to function sometimes. With insurance, I pay $15 for 9 pills which last a couple months. Without insurance it's around $165. Can you imagine me trying to get private health insurance? They would waiver everything. I have to be on a group plan.

And I don't have the money to send my daughter to a private school or get her a private tutor to home school her.

So, she's stuck where she is.

Maybe your response will be that I can't change things because I don't want to change things and that if I really wanted to give up my job and work from home and home school, I could. Maybe I just refuse to see that. Maybe I'm condemning my daughter to failure by not choosing that path. I agree it's probably the most successful path for any kid, whether "problem child" or normal. But in my eyes, it's too late in the game for me. Maybe if she was still in elementary school.

LL

LL,

First of all <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> and {{{LL}}}

Now on to more unpleasant things. I have followed your posts for a long time although I rarely respond, it looks as though I'll be the voice of dissent.

I really, truly think that the best thing you could do for your daughter would be to send her the behavior modification school, no matter the cost.

I know this was the very last thing that you wanted to hear, but your belief that she is better off at home..is more than likely fear induced and not truly your best judgement.

You fear having your daughter turned away..sent away..where you have lost all control..where you can't hug her and see her any time you want. Of course you do..she's your baby and always will be.

This is the heart of the matter though..she is seriously..deeply..truly in trouble. This child is drowning..she is choking on her own rebellion, and you are powerless to help her.

This is not because you are an evil woman or a lousy parent..a lot of what has occurred in her short life has been entirely out of your control. I would have no trouble believing that every choice you made that proved poor in retrospect was made self sacrificially and was what you believed to be the right thing to do at the time.

This problem is bigger than you, though. She has both nature and nurture working against her. What worked for your son does not affect her in a positive manner. What you have to offer..was what he needed tempermentally..more than likely. He is fortunate not to have the pyscho/social struggles that his sister does. He is fortunate to be in possesion of greater foresight and self control. We give our children what THEY need though as individuals..not as preassembled Ford models.

I have no doubt LL, that given time..you can absolutely work out your boundary issues. Unfortunately your D is all out of time. She has only 3 short years to get herself prepared to be a more or less adequate adult. Bst case scenario..college. Worst best case scenario..steady work and ability to make reasonable choices and not self destruct. I am so sorry to tell you, that I do not think that either of these are possible while she is in you care, no matter how loving. You are not RIGHT NOW capable of providing what she needs.

The specialists in this type of school work with and aid these youths every day..they know what works and they have the ability to enforce what they determine to be her needs.

I know that it seems a great struggle financially..but if you stop and think a moment about what the rest of her life is going to cost you as you go from crisis to crisis..this is a fair trade at least.

Having her out of the house will provide you the [dubious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ] opportunity to pick up a second job. I would also speak with a financial advisor about possible sale of the house..possible it is actually a GOOD option..but it may not..it would be situation specific..but definitely worth checking into.

Having her removed from XH and vile OW influence would be a God send..heck I'd send her just for that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I do hope you give this some consideration..as a dissinterested party on the outside looking in..it really seems to be the best opportunity for everyone, although, understandably painfull and difficult.

Best of luck in any case,

Noodle

Noodle,

Not sure which behavior modification school you are referring to, as I've mentioned two different things through this thread.

1) The state group home option. Basically this is where they put all the bad little kiddies who no one can handle, from the truants, to the rebels, to the thieves, violent teens, drug users, drug sellers, etc. And it's the state's job to keep them safe until they're 18. Some are in because their parents turned their rights over to the state. Others are in because the law put them there.

The cost would vary to me--essentially I'd be paying child support to the state--and could be anywhere from a few hundred to near $1,000 depending on the situation. Turning over my rights would give the state the ability to decide on her schooling, her medical care, and basically everything about her. If at the end of the CINA they decided she still wasn't ready to come home, they have the right after 12 months to permanently terminate my parental rights.

I haven't seen good things come out of these homes for the two girls I know. My niece came out last January, immediately hooked up with a meth dealer, got pregnant in October, and had an abortion.

The other girl I know not as well. She attended my church. Last time I saw her--when she was out temporarily, she told me flat out that Jesus could suck something of hers (that she doesn't have because she's a girl). I about threw up, and I fought a huge urge to grab her by the throat and choke the breath out of her. But it's not me she has to deal with, it's Jesus.

She's in a different group home now, but I hear it's not much better.

2) The other option I mentioned is a private boarding school of sorts. There is one in eastern Iowa, and one in Indiana. Most of the rest are in Utah and Montana. They range from $3,200/month to close to $5,000/month. Suffice it to say, my net take home pay isn't even $3,200/month. You can get loans to send your kids--at 5% for 20+ years. I'd like not to have to be paying $200/month until I'm retirement age!

Now, as for my house, I can tell you it would be dumb for me to sell it if I can possibly afford to keep it. I bought it for $128,000 six years ago brand new. It last appraised for $164,000 and that's because I told them to take the lowest appraisal they could, because I was going to have to pay my XH part of the equity and I wanted as little equity showing as possible. I am in a good area of town. I would be a fool to give up my $1,030/month home and rent a $650-$750/month apartment (and I would need a 2br because I'd want to have a place for my daughter to come back and visit, and for my son to live when his dorm closes for breaks and for the summer). No home loan interest would mean I couldn't itemize on my taxes. I'd probably need to increase my federal and state tax withholding by over $100/month to compensate.

Okay, so being an accounting and living, eating, and sleeping numbers: $1,030-$700(avg rent)-$100 (extra taxes w/h) = $230 savings.

And then I'd have to put the dogs down. My lab has hip dysplasia--no one will adopt her, and she's rather agressive at times to people she doesn't know. My mutt-dog is the most nervous, timid dog in the world. I'm not sure what she suffered as a puppy before I rescued her from an animal shelter, but she is my dog and my dog only. She will cower under my legs sometimes if the kids raise their voices. Again, not a good adoption possibility.

The cat could go to an apartment, but he's been cranky since he lost his brother in October and has been pooping on laundry, so he's skating on very thin ice.

-----------------------------------------------
My daughter and I had a rather vocal discussion tonight. I didn't do a good job containing my words or keeping my voice down, but that's tough. She screamed at me that I need anger management and parenting classes. Told her I only seem to have an anger problem when she grossly disobeys.

She told me she knows she has problems following authority but that it's just who she is. Hogwash. Told her she would have to learn or she was going to fail in life.

She then said we need family therapy. THE FIRST DECENT STATEMENT FROM HER IN FOREVER.

I doubt my insurance will pay for therapy on how to get along with each other, but it's worth a try so I'm going to call Monday and find out who we are allowed to see. There is also a decent counselor who works part time out of her school--might see if he has any availibility. That would be free. He's just hard to get to see.

She has agreed to therapy if it involves both of us. I would happily agree as well. And even if I had to pay out of pocket, it would be cheaper than either #1 or #2 above. I told her that this will be my final attempt at helping her myself before letting someone else have a crack at it. (And she knows I did call juvenile court last week because there was a returned call message left and she played it. I told her I haven't re-returned the call yet.)

So whether you all like this or dislike it, this is my decision at this moment.

-----------------------------------------------
As for what she did or didn't do last night, she swears she didn't drink. Maybe she did; maybe she didn't. But she did show me the pics she took on the camera she borrowed, and they were in a decent-looking house with a lot of kids and the parents were there.

But as for stopping her from having sex, I don't think there's a way to do that ultimately unless she chooses not to. It seems to be the sad reality for the majority of high-schoolers. Even my son isn't guilt-free there. I believe it's wrong--and dangerous, they were raised with that knowledge from the time they were little.

LL

<small>[ January 02, 2005, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Oh yeah, that second job suggestion...

I have considered it even having my daughter home if money got really tight. I guess in one way I'm scared I'd fail and they'd fire me. Thought about a Christmas job in the mall this year, and then thought, "I can't tell someone how lovely they look in something just to get them to buy it." I am NOT a salesperson. Growing up on a farm, I made money by walking beans. My current job is the only "real" job I've ever held.

But second to that, my current job (and my new one I'm taking in February) are not always 40-hour a week jobs. I frequently work 50+ and during my busy time in the early spring preparing for audits, 60+ isn't uncommon. Fortunately, I can log into some of my systems from home, so can work nights and weekends from here if I remember to bring my hard-copy files with me.

But I have this stupid heart arrhythmia (well, actually a bunch of different ones) and when I get extra tired or don't drink enough fluids, they tend to act up more, which for some reason makes me even more tired (and very nervous because I always wonder when the darned thing is just going to stop beating all together). I'm afraid if I'm not getting home until after 6pm from my main job, and then obviously not going to the next job until after that, I won't be getting home until around midnight and I will be exhausted.

(OT: Heart arrhythmias...just one more reason I'll remain single forever, as no one will want to take the chance, and if I ever am so unlucky as to win an implanted defibrillator, having a square implanted in my very skinny chest will be a very large physical turn-off to men who are visual creatures. And I was told that if I was ever diagnosed with VT, which is one that hasn't shown up on the monitors yet, that's probably what I'll rate someday. Right now the doctor still thinks the ones I have are basically annoying but "benign".)

LL

LL,

I try to stay off your threads--because I really hate to hear people constantly calling themselves names--and putting themselves down--

Your not stupid--so stop telling yourself you are--
there's an old proverb--"As a man thinks--He is" so as long as you continually tell yourself your stupid--you'll feel stupid--

You know, You have an AA, so what that it's not a BA, a lot of people don't even have that much college--so you can't use that "because I don't have a BA/BS I'm stupid--and if it makes you feel stupid because you don't have a higher degree--
then Go back to college and get it--apply for financial aid--

So what that you made a choice to get married at a young age--that doesn't make you stupid--you made the choice you did with the information you had--
but even that doesn't make you stupid--a lot of other people made the same choice--and that doesn't make them stupid either--

And if your not sure how to handle these things--
then check into taking a Parenting Class--read up
on some books like Boundaries, and Raising Strong Willed Kids--learn something NEW--so that you don't feel stuck doing the things that AREN'T Working--

I'm glad your daughters home, but if it was my child--I would have gone to get her myself--I would have insisted she give me the address of where she was--and if she didn't I would have told her I'd be calling the police and reporting her as a run away--and I would tell her I'm going to take my chances and take pictures of her and post them all over town (embarassing her more) as a missing child--why? because I love her and want to know she is home safe--so if she doesn't want her pictures posted all over town and doesn't want the police out looking for her--she'd better tell me where she is--so that *I* can come get her--

But then my kids know I would do that--

If partying on New Years Eve was a treat for her good behavior--YOU as her mom should have asked her for all of the information BEFORE she walked out the door--Where is the party going to be? What time does it end? If You can't give me that information--Your butt is staying home WITH ME--because YOUR NOT GOING!!

if she can convince her boyfriend or her friends to pay her way to do things--same thing applies--
You don't go if you don't tell me who is going to be with you, where your going--when you'll be home, what your plans are--and so forth--if she wants to get mad--and throw a temper tantrum let her--if she doesn't want to talk to you for a few days, fine--she doesn't have too--just tell her--
I understand your mad because you can't go--but I'm YOUR MOTHER and have a NEED to know where MY CHILD IS GOING TO BE When they leave the house--
You ask because YOU LOVE HER!!! And want to know she's safe--

it doesn't matter if she has ADHD, those are the rules--your the parent--set them--and hold to them--

You don't have to give her over to the state--they have Camps for kids who act like this--check into them--

http://www.teenassistance.com/

http://www.teenlifelines.com/index.html?src=OT&kw=boot+camps

http://www.redcliffascent.com/

http://www.getactivewithlamparelli.com/home_for_troubled_teen.htm

http://www.my-iv.org/christian_residences_for_troubled_teens.htm

http://troubled-teenagers.org/index.php?src=ot&keyw=boot+camps+v

There are resources other than just giving her over to the state that can be helpful--gain the information YOU NEED as a parent--and seek help--

Parenting isn't easy--being a single parent is twice as difficult--but it can be done--and there are people out there that can help teach YOU how to parent more effectively--so stop feeling like there is NOTHING you can do--and start taking some control--and all of these programs work with ADHD kids--so start doing some research and make some phone calls of inquiry and you don't even have to tell your daughter--just start looking into it--
and when it happens again after you've checked into it--put her in the car and take her--no questions asked--