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Is there a "feeling" when you know a marriage is over? A shrink we went to a few years ago said when the fighting is over, it's over. When you quit arguing, it's over. That's the irony, but I think maybe he was right. I'm so tired of fighting, of trying, of reading books, of dragging him to marriage counselors, of the same old merry go round ride over and over again. I moved out a month ago. I haven't really cryed, oh a few little tears. I don't even have much emotion. Someone once said I grieved this marriage ending a long time ago. I think maybe that's true. I'm lonely, in an apartment, him in our huge house. But my stress is down, and life goes on. As someone on this site said, moving out isn't a bed of roses, it's been a hard month. I still have to get the rest of my stuff. Likely I'm going to file for a divorce this week. I'm setting the appointment with an attorney tomorrow. It's been a long, crazy four years with this man. I guess you know when "enough is enough" is that true? Can anyone else tell me how they knew, what it felt like, the emotions once you filed a divorce? Does life go on? Do you look back years later and know you did the right thing? Or are there always feelings and regrets? Do you date again, do you learn to care again, especially after a bad marriage? The same shrink said having gone through what I have I'll likely stay the heck away from controlling men, but it could make me not marry again, I could be burnt for life... I don't want be to a bitter single mom. I want to be happy and spirited and in love with life, how people use to know me. Not this shell of a person. What happens next?

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You know. You listen to your inner truth. And if you let him take that away from you at some point, go somewhere quiet and listen. It's a process, yes, but if you are questioning, listen to what you are asking. You already know the answer. Whatever that answer is, you must accept it to act upon it. Don't act in haste and don't act in fear. Be strong, firm, committed to yourself, knowing what is right for you. Don't worry about the future, it doesn't exist. And, if you are injured, then you are in need of healing first. God Bless and good luck.

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horsey Offline OP
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My horoscope said one day, I "will consider all options before making a decision" - I ripped it out of the paper, just remembered it's in my purse. When friends were pushing me a month ago - divorce him - I told one, I'll first consider all options...

My mom said I needed space, a counselor tried to talk us into marriage counseling right after our big fight. I told him no, give me a month. Now it's been a month, of more quiet time. Without my husband in my face, without fighting, with some peace.

I think I know what I have to do. You may be right, if I don't worry so much about the future - and live for the day, one day at a time... and believe God has a plan for me, and there's a reason for everything, it helps. People stay for comfort of knowing they have something even if the something is bad, like my marriage is. Denial only lasts so long, inbetween fights, but the pain is there, the stress, it'll make me old and sick.

If my heart and mind are telling me I'm at peace in a little apartment with plastic silverware and a mattress on the floor - and that I dont' miss the big 600k house, that's something. I haven't prayed in years, grew up in church, someone told me recently God talks to you by giving you peace about something. If you think of a decision over and over again, that you have to make, and you feel at peace with it... then He's saying that's the way to go. Somehow I have to believe in a higher power to get through this and my dad dying in the same year.

I don't know that I need much more time to think, feel what's right. My attorney friend said I'd know in my heart if it's over, if so now is the time... so this week I'll decide, hopefully on Monday, Tuesday after talking with an attorney in the town I"ll have to file a divorce in.

What would a peaceful life be like? I used to enjoy my single days... my little world. I was a bit of a loner, I liked books and traveling, and making new friends. I don't even know if I've been "me" in four years of this marriage.

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hi horsey, I am not divorced so I can't comment but I want to say keep praying and God will answer. Again whatever the outcome we ask that it be the will of God.
sisterly
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Ok. I have written to you before about listening to feelings rather than using your head and considering facts...you can't get it? Please go and buy "Life Strategies" by Dr. Phil. Feelings will misguide you....I know it. But thinking and as the other poster here put it, meditation, is also good.

For you, I suggest, reading that book along with Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson. You need to get the facts straight and have a clear cut thought pattern about what is going on right now.

Something that has helped me over the years is to do this...ironically my xh taught me to do it...he would do it when trying to close wa sale for his customers...it is the "Ben Franklin" approach to an issue. Say it's your marriage. You need to decide if things are going to have a teeny chance or if you're headed for divorce so you can take action one way or the other... Simply Draw a line down a ruled sheet of paper or do it on your computer. You on one side list the positibve things that are present. On the other side, you list the negativew things ythat are present. That should be one beginning indicator of where you should go with this.

Feelings are not facts. I say go with facts.

My computer is having trouble so I can't type very weel nor see what it is I am typing.e

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I am at the same point where I do not know whether it is or is not over. I wish I knew. He loves me a lot...I can see it now, but I don't feel it. I feel like I give and give and he doesn't give back. He takes our marriage for granted and feels as if his job IS our marriage. We both had screwed up parents..arguing all the time... which made it hard for both of us to have a 'normal' marriage. Whatever that is.. because i do not know. I am scared I never will. I don't know what to do with myself right now. I am reading the Dr. Phil book Relationship rescue as my last resort. I hope this helps. If not, I think I know what to do. It is scary. I can honestly say that I do not know if I love him anymore and maybe that is the feeling you get when 'you just know' that is truly is over.

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horsey... i only post occasionally, as i am relatively new here, but i have read many of your posts and i feel comfortable... for me, it took about eleven months of physical separation from my STBX (even though she was already living with OM for about that long) to realize that my marriage was truely over... i call it 'delusion in denial'... some ask 'when do you give up hope, when is enough, enough'... for me, hope gave up on me when i realized that i could never be happy with my STBX (W) and that is also when 'forgiveness' came... i forgave her and me and accepted responsibility for my part in the destruction of our dream... durring the separation, we sold the M house and I was homeless for two months living in my truck with everything i owned... i can empathize with you sitting in alone in an apparment with plastic forks... it's tough, but it can only get better...like my mother always said, 'son, when you hit bottom, there is only one place to go... up'... and life goes on... and on... and on... i firmly belive that if i do all i can to the best of my morality possible, then i will not have regets... forgiveness purged me of my past regrets... i can't comment on the filing for D, almost there... all papers are done, and those 'feelings' are mixed, but nothing negative...
I used Carl Jung's thought process (like ignited stated) "you can not change anything unless you accept it. condemenation does not liberate, it opresses"... it helped...
i don't worry about dating because i am not ready so it wouldn't be any fun or constructive, but i hope in the future that i have the opprotunity... if not, oh well... i still have me and all of my family and friends... that's enough for me to be happy...
justpeachy... right on... i had a (zen) master many years back that taught me to remove my emotions and feelings from dealings in the business world... i treat my separation and pending D as a business deal, now... essentially that is what it is... negative emotions only hurt me and delayed my process... and i learned this here... 'feelings are not a sound basis for choosing to sacrafice yourself when everything you know leads you to believe that the sacrafice will be in vain"... i also agree with Ben Franklin's method... the pros/cons list helped me realize what i had to gain, not just what i had already lost... good luck and hang in there... oh, and my granfather always said, "if you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging".

be well

samm

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Perhaps I read too much into it. I saw it as a case of emotional abuse and that isn't necessarily so. I saw in the post some things I recognized and had to deal with. If you aren't sure if that describes you, read The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. If it IS you, at least you'll know that you're not crazy. It all depends on what the arguments are about and if anything is ever resolved. Resolution of problems is a huge thing. So is approaching marital problems as a "we" and not hearing, "I don't have a problem. We don't have a problem. You have a problem." Either way, it is correct that feelings are not facts. Just make sure that when/if you do write down the facts that you include those repeating situations that make you feel bad. Because those situations ARE facts.

Sounds like you are getting a lot of sound advice and experience in this post. Blessings...

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Hi everyone...
today I found this site, because I felt it's too hard to carry it all alone. Just want to talk to you
I don't know about "feelings" - one day it seems that yes, for sure it's over; another day you feel motivated to pray and stand for the restoration of the marriage...Sometimes i think i just don't want to see this reality, that my marriage is really OVER.
We separated, now we live apart for 6 months already. But everyday there is less chance that we'll stayt together. We have a girl, she is 2...
It is so painful. I hate divorce, i always hated it, and believed i'll never divorce. We both are Christians, but... I lost my hope. My H says he doen't want me anymore, he blames me for everything that went wrong in our marriage. I know that it's not true, that we both were wrong... but nothing can change his mind, his convictions..sometimes i think that he is simply sick person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

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horsey Offline OP
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Sorry for you, it usually is sick I think when one person blames the other for all the marriage problems, but that's how it often is it seems. No one likes to look at themselves and change do they? I dont' believe in divorce either, I think one day I'll divorce the other we'll reconcile. It's very hard to reconcile after so much has gone on, I know it. Even if you do to ever have the feelings and love again? People do it, I guess I've tried and tried and tried, my husband hasn't. So his actions are making up my mind for me...

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In my case it was not only that I knew it's over, it was that I didn't want to accept some things anymore.

After 2 years of being hurt, I set some boundaries, gave him a list of things I need to have to be able to do my part of M's work; he didn't do it, didn't take me seriously, moreover he continued to lie to me!! and - I left him.

How did I feel that day when I left him...
Did I love him? - Yes!
Did I feel sorry and in pain? - Yes!
Did I feel lost and without compass in my life? - Yes!
Did I have any hope he'd change and we'd get back together? - Yes!
And all of that didn't prevent me to leave him, our home!
For I didn't want to spend any new day feeling miserable.
(Did I have days after that and still felt miserable? - Of course I did, and a lot of more tears, BUT I was alone, he didn't hurt me anymore, he didn't cheat on me anymore, yelled at me, I was alone (with my son) and didn't feel unwanted, unloved...)

Do I regret?
Yes! - That I waited 2 years before I left him and spent them in sorrow.

It's been 16 months and I could say I'm healed.
There are some triggers still, but less and less painful, and sometimes I'm sad (not because I left him, but my choice of the man-for-me was so wrong...)

Him?
He's stil seeing OW (and still denying!!) once per month, doesn't look happy, struggling... and he says he still loves me...
Last time he said that - this morning; came to pick up our son... and asked me if we can date each other and see if we can make it, to get back together...
My answer is that I count only his actions, not words, and that I see no changes...

Yes, I felt sad after that conversation, but... life goes on...
I might end my life totally alone, and if it's price I have to pay for not wanting to be alone with someone or in misery as I lived - I'm very fine with that too.

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My parents were here today, and my mother said it didn't seem like I was still hoping for a reconciliation. I was surprised - didn't think I'd said much of anything at all, but you know what? I think she's right. Somewhere, somehow, I must have changed my attitude or how I come across.

Do you ever think about your former life, and it seems like it was a movie you saw instead of something that happened to you? That's where I'm at -- it seems like years and years since I left, instead of just a month.

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horsey Offline OP
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Yes, times do seem like a movie. It's like I didnt' even know him. Scenes are playing back. I keep remembering one when we were in Mexico and argued, he pushed me off the bed of course, his usual - pushing/shoving/slapping to "shut me up" as he called it a month ago. That was two years ago. I seperated, moved back in, got preg and tried to make it work the last two years. I tried, he really didn't. Once he said, "you are stuck with this" when I said he had to change, he had to stop cutting me down. He said that about six months ago. When I went to go he said, "you have it made here, you won't leave, you know you won't..." the same night he slapped me. I left, I left the next day and never went back, not even for my stuff which I have to do.

Yes, it's only been a month for me. I drove past our old house in the town I moved to thinking, who was that lonely sad woman who used to live there? I can't even picture going back to the house I just left, I have to, to get my things. Although I've bought new furniture and a lot of stuff. It's so far from my life, I'm sure he has no clue how far gone I am this time. I've tried to move back a number of times, always moved back. He always then got worse and worse.

My mom is saying the same, it doesn't look like I want to reconcile, I kept talking about it two weeks ago, three weeks ago, but this week NO. Somehow it hit me, I'm a single mom, the baby's sick, I'm working at night wierd hours at home to keep my business afloat - but I was a single mom with him. I'm frustrated, but I'm not insane like I'd be there in the house with him, him telling me the baby is my job, he won't help, take a hike, I can't run a business and I'm a bad mom.

Why are mother's alway's right? She was right when I was dating him, he's a selfish pig who doesn't care? She said when I left him I'd be wondering "WHY" did I stay so long, why did it take so long to leave him, why did I put up with it so long? Why do we? It's the dream... that dream is dying quick with space. My own space. Peace even amidst a hectic week. Quiet time. God is talking to me, saying leave this man, no one deserves to live their life in misery.

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It seems to me you are almost there - at peace in your mind.

And, yes, it's better to be a single mom leaving alone (with your child), than be a single mom living with that kind of H.

Why we put up with this for a longer time?

For we didn't love and respect ourselves enough!
(Whatever it's done to you it was you allowing it.)

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Horsey,
Yes, there is a feeling, and oddly, for me, at least, it's a non-feeling.
It's like someone has been saying in this thread-- feelings misguide you. IT's the peace that is directing me.
I wrote my husband an email tonight-- I was myself in it for the first time in forever.
I left a month ago, and left a bunch of stuff at the big house. I have real silverware, but I was a single mom in a marriage anyway....
Now my son gets to hear me say "I'm sorry you heard us fighting. People who love each other should never act like we did. "
And there it is... I said it myself "People who love each other should not act like we did."
I don't think I ever loved him, or he me.
And instead of feeling sad about that, I don't feel anything, no remorse, no nothing. It just IS what it is.
Or maybe I'm just numb?
I don't know, but I can see clearly now-- without emotion. I can see that we behaved like UNlovers, and it was abusive as well.
It's too hard to turn the corner in abuse and reconcile for real. Because we know what the stakes are for even one setback. I'm not talking about one mistake, I'm talking about being on the road to change, and then just one mean comment, one sharp look and we're back to where we were.
I will never trust my husband to not give those looks. NO matter how much he changes and shows work on his behavior.
It's too bad becasue I think he's an essentially good man who's had crummy role models all his life.
BUt then I think he needs a different wife-- maybe one who can bring him up to her level. I wasn't able to. But maybe he;ll be more open to the next one.
Yes, there's a feeling-- hate is not the opposite of love. Fear is not the feeling.
For me, it is peace in myself, and indifference towards him.
Lucy

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I knew it was over the day he raped me and wouldn't stop when I was crying and tears were racing down my face. He told me to "be quiet" so the kids didn't hear us.

It was Easter Sunday 1998. I will NEVER forget it.

I knew without a doubt that I tried EVERYTHING to keep my marriage together and he didn't care about me at all. That was the end of it for me.

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Never loved one another. Behaved like unlovers. One step back and those looks, the abuse. No trust again...

Sounds like my life story. I was wondering today if I ever really loved my husband. I'm not so sure I really did, or he, me. He waited three years to ask me to marry him, if he was sure, he would have asked me before. When he did ask me I was so unsure, I almost backed out of the wedding. Our first month together I knew it was wrong.

A chinese proverb says when you've made a mistake work as quickly as you can to fix it. That was in a chinese cookie at a restaurant, I kept it. It's true don't you think? What if I'd fixed this mistake earlier? I should have, I knew it. I told him the first months of marriage, if this is the way it's going to be we'll end up divorced. His control, yes, those "looks".

I can't take another one of those looks either. The coldness in his eyes. The verbal comments. The slapping. Where did all the ugliness come from? How do you wind up so ugly yourself in one of these marriages? How can it go on and on and on and on? It's like a video of my life, I'm watching it these days, was I really there?

I'm glad my boy is only 9 months old, I don't have to explain to him that people don't act like that... I feel bad enough that he's been around so much stress of the marriage, a move, me, new daycare, now ilness, you name it. Poor little guy needs a break. I hope I can provide him with a stable home life even single. But it's better then the insanity of that marriage.

I guess I am on my way to the big D...

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First time here, I hope someone else is still awake. My husnand and I have been together for 10 years, married for 5. We have a 3 year old daughter. His view of me is that I stop being a wufe when our daughter was born. My view of him he needs to quit drinking and stop being selfish, his view to that... i'm trying to control him. Things have gone on to long that I feel there is no repair and I don't have it in me to try anymore. I just want to get on with the next step of life. He and I are separating, he stated he would not leave his house so our daughter and I are going to move out and get an apartment. Everytime I think there is the slightest bit of hope he will say or do something that reminds me why I feel this way. My concerns lie with am I doing the right thing for our daughter. He says I'm being selfish but I think he is. He thinks I have blinders on, I think he does. I have not been able to make him see that his drinking really affected the way I felt about him. Sometimes he will blame me for his drinking, that I do not give him what he needs. (Sex) Other days he says there's nothing wrong with him, it's all me and I need to go see the "Crazy Doctor" as he put it. Degrading me becuase I had suffered from depression and was on prozac. He says I'm just trying to control him. That I have become so demanding, I haven't been a wife. He discust me. He, deep down somewhere was a good man, I thought, but he is lost in his alcohol and for too long I said nothing because I hate confrontation and he was once what my world revolved around and all i had. When our daughter came alaonf i will admit I have become a much stronger person, I am certainly different from when we met, but for the first time ever in my life, I like who I am, I like my values, I have integrity and I am the most honet person I know. I am forgiving and compassionate, but when it comes to my husband I don't have anything left to give.

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Sounds familair to me, Sherry.
I don't have any more to give my Husband either. COmpassion or patience.
It's like he wore me out, for himself.
Keep posting here!
Lucy

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Horsey,
The weekend we were getting married I told my dad that "I think he just wants to marry me so he'll have someone to torture". Then I said "Does that sound rational? Or am I just getting cold feet?"
My dad,in his wisdom said, "I guess there's only one way to find out. Time will tell, and you can always get a divorce if it doesn't work out."
I laughed because my parents are not into divorce, and have tried hard to keep me in the marriage, to look on the bright side, to see the good, to take acountability.
I'm glad they did because it has made me know witout a doubt that I tried as hard as I could to make it work!
And all in all, it's only been 2 years of hell.
Let's see... they say you need to spend one month of healing for each year of marriage, plus an initial six months before you're soundly healed, right?
So, that means, I'll be feeling better in just 8 months!
LOL
Lucy

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