Hi, all.<BR> I want to ask you all if you think I have the right to confront this woman and tell her of all the pain her actions have caused me. I realize that it will probably go in one ear and out the other, because she never cared about my feelings, or this wouldn't have happened. But I have something to say to her, and I need to get this off my chest before it drives me crazy. I don't even want to look at her, so it would most likely be a letter. I have confronted H about it, why shouldn't I confront OW, it is partly her fault as well. Why should she go scott free? I don't feel I can heal until I've had the chance to let her know exactly how I feel. I just want this all out of my mind. Your opinions will be appreciated.

ktgirl, you have every right to make your peace. I have said many things to OW. Through e-mail. Nothing derogatory (sp?). Nothing mean. Just straight forward talk. The worst thing I've ever said to her was "Do you care that he is married, do you care that we have a 2 year old daughter, do you care that we wanted to have another child?". That's it. I have now told her to not to make any contact w/my H or we'd take legal action. I don't have hate towards OW. She is nothing to me. She is cruel and weak in her actions. But she can't help it. All I can do is be the person I am and be proud of it. And not allow her to torment me. She's not worth it.<P>If it will make you feel better. Do it. I would. I did. Good luck. Let me know how it goes. LSM

hey ktgirl, <P>how are ya doing? i think that it is totally up to you. i often wanted to, but am too emotional and would have broke down in front of her, which probably would have made her feel better. so i decided not to. some people feel they must, i have done okay without ever speaking to her and hope it stays that way. even when we go to court, i don't want to talk to her, just seeing her will be quite enough for me i am sure.<P>sometimes though, and it seems the OW in your case would probably fit into this, but it would be a waste of words and make her feel like she succeeded. they like to see us wives act angry and mad. it gives them power. so choose carefully. i have wrote many letters i never planned on sending and that always makes me feel better. but talking to someone with no feelings or principles just seems useless in my case, i doubt it would do any good for me to waste my breath talking to the OW in my case. you have to look at yours and decide what you want to get out of it and if it is worth the emotions you will probably stir up, especially if she tries to tell you stuff about the affair. if it will help you get on with life, then do it, and i think the letter is a good idea. just be careful is she is the vengeful type she could keep the letter and try to get restraining order against you or something, if it seems threatening. words, at least usually, are gone once said, writing is there to read and re read, and can be misconstrued. just write your feelings plain and simple and send it off to her if it will make you feel better. but don't expect her to beg for your forgiveness. i think i would have a heart attack if the OW asked me for forgiveness. i would be dumbfounded, i rarely have heard stories of that. it would be weird. nice, but weird. then i wouldn't keep her as a monster in my head. but monster she is, and i think that is how she really is anyway.<P>well, i have rambled on. hope you are doing okay. talk to ya later.<P>happy girl<p>[This message has been edited by happy_girl (edited July 29, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by happy_girl:<BR><B>hey ktgirl, <P>how are ya doing? i think that it is totally up to you. i often wanted to, but am too emotional and would have broke down in front of her, which probably would have made her feel better. so i decided not to. l<P>[This message has been edited by happy_girl (edited July 29, 2000).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Happy Girl,<BR> Hi!!! It's so good to hear from you again. I know you've got a lot going on with your situation now, so I'm glad that you find the time to still help me. <BR> I don't know. I am way too emotional, and if it were a face-to-face, I'd be less interested in speaking my mind, I think I could actually become violent, I have so much anger. I've pretty much ruled against that. I just have a temper, and 1, she is pregnant, and 2, I don't want to go to jail.<BR> I think there should be a place on here somewhere where we WS can go to write an open letter to the OW's and OM's in our own situations. These people would never see them, but at least we'd get these things off our collective chests. As for H, he knows I'm still angry, and we have long discussions over it, and he knows it's going to take time. I have to say we've had quite a breakthrough, due to us filling out one of the questionnaires on this site. He is more willing to discuss why we got into this problem in the first place, as well as the whole situation, and we do this without him getting upset!!! I am hearing things from him now that I wish he'd said a long time ago!! I am so glad you recommended this site to me, I owe you so much for the change it has brought about in my life. He's opening up, and I'm opening up, and we are actually getting something accomplished! I know it still won't be easy, but it's moving along a lot better than it was. I've decided not to press him any further on the OC issue. He has a lot of anger at OW, says he hates her for what she did to him, and what she cost him that he's not sure he'll ever get back (our relationship) so I'm afraid that he may take out his anger toward the mother on the child. Not abusive, but just have an attitude about the child, and children are sensitive and can pick these things up. It would be more detrimental to the child with his current mindset, so it's best he stays away. Again, thank you so much. I think I'll just do like you did, write the letters, but never send. Or maybe keep a journal, where I write the things bothering me down when I'm having a bad day. That, plus the communication with H should help. Talk to ya later. What's going on with you?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostsoulmate:<BR><B>ktgirl, you have every right to make your peace. I have said many things to OW. Through e-mail. Nothing derogatory (sp?). Nothing mean. Just straight forward talk. The worst thing I've ever said to her was "Do you care that he is married, do you care that we have a 2 year old daughter, do you care that we wanted to have another child?". That's it. I have now told her to not to make any contact w/my H or we'd take legal action. I don't have hate towards OW. She is nothing to me. She is cruel and weak in her actions. But she can't help it. All I can do is be the person I am and be proud of it. And not allow her to torment me. She's not worth it.<P>If it will make you feel better. Do it. I would. I did. Good luck. Let me know how it goes. LSM</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi LSM,<BR> I was pretty raw when I started this topic, and while it seems a nice idea on the outset, in my particular situation, I think it would cause more harm than good. The OW is definitely not above using any communication from me to get me in trouble. She already attempted to get me fired from my job, when that didn't work, she quit working there, and began stalking my H. I've pretty much decided to keep a journal, to write down any feeling I have about it, that she will never see, but will get it off my chest. It seems the safer approach with a whack job like her. I feel much better now, and I think on the whole, this is the best thing to do. Thanks for your opinion though. I just let my emotions carry me off way too far and too fast. I need to get a handle on that if this is going to work.<P>

hi! sorry i didn't write you back at your email address. i am having trouble with my aol and am actually getting DSL soon, so write me at my new address. plaajaas96@netscape.net. then i can get your address again.<P>we are doing fine. nothing new, just waiting for the childsupport issue to come up. we are waiting to be contacted by the courts about the dna testing. well, write to me!! then we can talk some more. glad you like this site as much as i do. it has really helped me.<P>happy_girl

ktgirl:<P>You have every right to do exactly as you please and exactly as you see fit. She has given you the right, the power. <BR>If you want to see her, talk to her, write to her, go ahead, if you think you can handle yourself. Remember, she intruded herself into your life when she had unprotected sex with a man she knew was married, you did not intrude yourself into her life. She's the one who has opened the door to confrontation with her actions.<P>A year ago on August 4th, I suddenly got an impulse to call the airlines, book a flight, pack my bags and drive to the airport, get on a plane and fly to NY City, grab a cab to her house, scope it out, get a hotel, rented a car, drove back to her house, sat and waited til she drove into her driveway, approached her, asked if we could 'talk' and proceeded to sit for six hours on her deck answering and asking lots of questions.<P>I had nothing to loose. I had to see what, if anything, I was up against. I had to meet her, see her, talk to her, get answers and make a decision as to whether or not I could stay in the marriage. I decided I could.<P>I have written her two letters; one was a horrible four page diatribe on her character that was sent a week after discovery of her condition.<P>The second was sent two months after our meeting imploring her to do the right thing and give the child up for adotion. That's when she got particularly nasty and slapped a phony Order for Protection suit against me. She claimed I said things I never said, claimed I did things I never did and claimed I threatened her, which I never did. it was simply a retalitory action for not liking what I said and being forced to face the truth.<P>By law, I am forbidden to call, write, visit, have any contact whatsoever with the slut until a year from the date of the OFP, which expires on March 1, 2001. On that day, a follow up letter from me will be waiting in her mailbox.<P>One of my aspirations is to become the Poster Girl for every OW's worst nightmare.<P>My intent is not to be vindictive, but to get her to realize that her actions have caused us incredible financial hardship, and to be reasonable and try to force her or appeal to any remote sense of decency she may retain (besides water) to accept a likewise reasonable support payment; to call off the dogs and stop tormenting us or she will herself be tormented.<P>My intent is to make her sorry she refused to talk to me that first week of her involvement with my husband. My intent is to dispense a sort of 'aversion therapy' so she will never ever consider doing this again to any other woman.<P>If she would have done the decent thing and disappeared to raise it herself and accept a reasonable support amount without suing us, or giving it up for adoption so we could all go on with our lives, especially for the sake of the child, or had any consideration for any of our children or for our marriage and backed off when she had the opportunity, she would never have had to hear from me at all. She opened the door to all the contact.<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited July 29, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by catnip:<BR><B>ktgirl:<P> Remember, she intruded herself into your life when she had unprotected sex with a man she knew was married, you did not intrude yourself into her life. She's the one who has opened the door to confrontation with her actions.<P><BR>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited July 29, 2000).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Catnip,<BR> Yes, this is exactly how I feel. I did not ask her to come into my life and turn it upside down, she chose to bring me in by seducing my husband. I am on an egroup, and have raised this subject there, but everyone there almost says I need to direct all my anger at my H, because he could have said no. I do let him know what's on my mind, and we are actually discussing the thing now without him running away from it. He's not innocent, and he did betray me, and I still feel it. But my point has always been, hardly a man alive will turn down attention of whatever kind is offered if things are going badly at home. Especially, like in our case if he is carrying anger towards his W because of hours spent apart due to working different shifts. If she hadn't been there to offer, KNOWING HE WAS MARRIED, then it'd be a different story. I can say what I want about it to him. I just want the chance to do that with her as well, as like you say, "aversion therapy" if there is any humanity in her at all. This I seriously doubt, but at least I've made a try. I couldn't do it face-to-face, I am too angry for that. But I can write very well and express myself. I want to tell her how low down on the food chain I think she is. I also want to tell her that she needs to leave this fantasy she has of H and her and the baby, because this man hates her. Because of her actions, she lost any chance she might have had to get him in her life. That and anything else I can do to get her to go on with her life, and leave ours alone. I know he did wrong, but it does take two to tango, why should he be the only one receiving negative feedback from what happened. I think she should know, I want to make her think, what if the roles were reversed? How would she feel if I actively pursued her husband (not just the shack-ups she's used to) and then tried to pull this s**t with her man. I want to get that through her thick skull, that what goes around comes around, and one day it will be her turn. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Thanks for your advice. I know I have to be really careful what I do in this situation, because she is a real psychob***h. We'll see. Thanks again, Catnip, for understanding almost exactly how I feel. You and happy_girl have been Godsends to me here. Don't know what I'd do without you both.<BR>

ktgirl:<P>I should come with a warning label/disclaimer that I do NOT recommend anyone else doing what I have done. <P>I happen to be surprisingly confrontational and have a cavalier attitude anyway. This attitude surprises even me...I didn't know I was this way until this happened to me. <P>The events of the past two years brought this side out of me that must have always been there, but dormant. <P>I figure there isn't much anyone can do to me because all the most horrible things imaginable have already been done to me. There's a lot of freedom in not giving a sh**.<P>Sending those two letters and showing up on her doorstep unannounced gave me a great deal of satisfaction. I have a tendency to obsess and acting out quelled some of those obsessions. I want to win at all costs in every area and find that I am furious that this has happened in addition to many other things I have experienced.<P>I thought when I married my husband that my sad times were over and I was being given a gift from God to make up for the bad times. Little did I know twenty years ago that one day the most devastating heartache of them all would end up on my doorstep.<P>This forum has given me insight, courage, some peace, some explanations and a lot of comfort. I feel so much more grounded, even if I tend to be militant, than I would have had I not had this site to come to. It saved my life, it saved my sanity and taught me the principles I need to move ahead and restore my marriage.<P>My husband is completely responsible for his aggressive pursuit of the OW. BUT, she could have said NO. <P>When I called her after I first found out about them after their first weekend together, she could have ended it, she could have said NO. Instead, she went ahead full force. When I called her after their second weekend crying and begging again, she had the opportunity to end it and say NO. The third and final weekend, she had the opportunity to say NO. Throughout the entire threee weekends, she had the opportunity to say NO, use birth control, protect her body, all along knowing full well that I was deeply in love with my husband and wanted more than anything to preserve our marriage and gutted myself telling her how much it all meant to me, how sick he was, how mentally ill he was, that he was an alcoholic, and yet, she went ahead and did all those things anyway.<P>THIS is why we hate the OW so. Because they knew, because they were pleaded with, because they had intimacies with our husbands reserved only for us, because they are heartless and selfish and evil, because they deliberately got themselves pregnant and changed our lives forever, because they kept the kid and are causing us financial hardship, because the court protects them and the kid instead of us and our children. And for me, most of all, because she had my husband's child and I cannot.<P>We are in tentative recovery. Most days are wonderful, many are hard and upsetting, but by and large we are moving forward. Now I have to work on my frame of mind and get over this.<P>Catnip =^^=

ktgirl,<P>I am struggling with this right now. We are having to drop our appeal and start to pay this whore. I want to tell her to her face that we are paying her like you would pay a prostitute. This is the second time she has done this. Waited to sleep with someone who was intoxicated, have a kid, and collect the money. I figure if she knows that everyone thinks that she is a whore than she might think twice about going for number 3. I don't know how to direct you. Everyday I have to take deep breaths not to confront her. Good luck. I do know that you have to be careful, because there are alot of OWs who are just waiting for that confrontation so that they can throw things in your face. Which doesn't make things better. I figure if my H ever gets another job, they work together now, then I will confront her. Cause then we will be leaving this town. <P>babstr.

Ktgirl,<P>You've already received good advice. I don't know what else I can say except to tell you about my experience.<BR>When I first found out about the OW and the pregnancy I was furious. I demanded - I mean I demanded her number from my H. I told her how I felt and asked her if she knew my H was married and if she knew we had two kids. Her response was and I quote, "He was wrong and I was wrong." She didn't say she was sorry because she wasn't. She did say she was concerned about her baby because he was an "innocent victim". I told her I had two other victims living with me. (my sons) I called her another time about finances and she told me that any finances or visitation discussions about the baby is between her and my H. <BR>After talking to a friend about this, I realized something. Anytime I talked to her, especially when my H was confused about who he wanted to be with, I was giving her power. I was letting her know that I was losing the grip on my H. My phone calls sent that message. <BR>My point - We can say all we want to these OW. But we know how they are. Most of them knew our H's were married, and I believe most of them deliberately got pregnant. If they went that far, do you really think they would be concerned about a phone call or letter?<BR>I know how you feel. You have a lot of anger, and want to get it out. If you're concerned obout her using your words against you later, be careful about what you write. I just advise you to write or call once to get it out of system and then forget it.

I have always thought that taking the time & effort to bother speaking to the OW in any form was bringing me down to her level. I have not tried to contact her in any way.<P>Well, I fell apart the other night & called. I was out of town all week with my two boys, taking them to visit my H parents. Spent all week there. When I get back he tells me the OW has delivered the baby & he went to be in delivery room (I had asked him not to do that). Then he says she has called several times & he went & visited with her & OC. That was just too much. I came unglued & ranted. I don't even recall all I said. I am still physically worn out by the episoide. Anyway, I called her... with him standing there. Screamed & yelled about why she was trying to harm my children. Told her that I prayed no one ever tried to hurt her child like she was trying to harm mine. Used several curse words. Came unglued. Told her to never contact my H again, or my lawyer would have her up on stalking charges. Anyway, it was ugly & actually it really didn't make me feel any better. Just sucked the life out of me. I don't know that it was productive & went against everything I have vowed not to do (allow the OW to poision my soul or attitude or influence my decisions in any way). <P>I am not sorry I did it, nor am I proud. I lost control & was so very angry that my H was over there visiting & bonding with the OC while I take our sons to visit his invalid mother. It just got too much. <P>You have the right to contact this whore, but do not expect the conversation to be productive. These females are so wrapped up in their own little schemes. There is nothing you can say that will make her back off or feel remorse. The OW in my case knew my H was married & had 2 boys. She didn't care then & she doesn't care now. At best at this point she thinks I am a raving lunatic & will try to stay clear of me. <P>Carolyn

Carolyn/takingcare:<P>I am absolutely incredulous hearing this....you went to visit your husband's invalid mother. The OW delivers while you are out of town...and your husband is in the delivery room? What is he thinking? <BR>He had no business being there because it is not something that the OC would remember anyway and only creates a connection with the OW that makes it more difficult to shake. His being there also gives her validation, which she should not have under any circumstances.<P>The ONLY responsibility your husband has to that child is financial, beyond that, it is basically up to you to determine if YOU can tolerate for your husband and the OC to have a relationship. It is your call, no one else's.<P>A priest once told me when I asked him what my/his/our responisiblity was to the OC. He said, "Your first and primary responsibility is to each other and to your marriage. It is the base, the foundation, from which anything and everyone else comes after. Your husband owes this OC nothing, except financial support."<P>I was so relieved to hear that, as was my husband, as he was torn until our 'duties' were explained. Getting permission to focus on his marriage which was a commitment that precluded the OW and OC, relieved him of feeling obliged to be an active participant in their lives. The priest put the priorities in perspective and it is something I can live with.<P>Putting the marriage ahead of everything and everyone else gives you both strength as a couple to get through this ordeal. The POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT means that he does NOTHING without your complete and enthusiatic agreement, and this goes for you as well.<P>I am so sorry, Carolyn...I know your husband felt obliged to be there even though he wasn't. His place is with you; and if you happen to be out of town, his place is at home feeding the cat.<P>In a weird way, I feel empathy for our stupid wayward spouses who have done these horrible things and now feel as though they must make restitution to everyone, including the OW, which in my opinion is ridiculous. They are confused and trying to do what is right but they fail to consider that their attention to the OW/OC scenario is destructive, dangerous and feels like a betrayal to us.<P>Go see a priest affiliated with Retrouvaille, recovery for troubled marriages. He will tell you to put your marriage first, make it your number 1 priority.<P>Catnip =^^=

Carolyn,<BR>What your H did was wrong wrong WRONG!!!!!! (But of course you knew That!) I'm "flabbergasted"!!! You have every right to lay down serious SERIOUS ultimatums to you H. You can't control your H or the (X?)OW, but if your H values your relationship, you deserve bettter respect!!!!! Joint Policy of Agreement, indeed! Lovebusters doesn't even cover what he did!! I'm so SO sorry for your pain in this betrayal... while visiting his ailing mother, no less! Ugh.<P>ktgirl, I've spoken to the XOW twice. Once a couple weeks after Dday, and with a short list of specific prepared questions. I did not name-call. I wanted stuff my DH could "not remember" that was important to me(like when it started--she was a "friend" of ours), and I'm proud that I got what info I wanted without stooping to her level.<P>I again called in Feb. this year, with H's agreement, to discuss her unreasonable demands for frequent email and a (long distance alone?!--hahaha) visit from my H; again, I did not namecall, though I did yell quite a bit). Didn't make much headway (she is NOT realistic), only temporarily felt better, but did get how crazy her thinking is. Followed up with a carefully worded letter explaining what IS and ISN'T appropriate (ala 4 counselors and 2 pastors), and she has not been nasty since, which helps me. Have NEVER gotten apology or remorse; won't hold my breath waitin'.<P>So I guess it depends on what you hope to get out of a rant/phone call. It's not realistic to hope for much out of the XOW, by definition a dysfunctional person. You also should consider whether there is something she might so to retaliate that could make you more miserable. Writing rant letters I never sent made me feel better temporarily. It's also been good to just concentrate on my OWN family whenever I CAN (not always possible--cyclical). <P>Best wishes,<BR>J <BR>

If you have never had to give up a child for adoption, you really can't ask another adult to do it regardless of what the circumstances are. Giving a child up for adoption is one of the most heart wrenching things a person can go through. What you all are suffering is just because of the OW, it's because of your spouses' actions. They are both responsible. Of course it would be no heartbreak for your H's if the OC was put up for adoption. He just wants to be rid of all evidence of his mistake and to get on with his life. But for a woman to do this is a terrible decision and not a decision that most people are strong enough to make. Unless you personally have given up a child for adoption you have no right under any circumstances to tell someone else to do it. What happened happened because both your H and the OW did something wrong. But you expect the OW to then make this huge decision and painful sacrifice and you resent that she won't do it and that your H has to sacrifice instead. I'm not defending what the OW or your H did here. It's a terrible mess and you are the innocent party who did nothing to deserve it. But it is totally unfair to be angry at the OW because she didn't give her child, her own flesh and blood away, just because your H can toss it away.<BR>I went through an unplanned pregnancy and adoption when I was 15. I think about my child every day and hope that she contacts me some day. I ache for her every day. I know what I am talking about and nothing not even a rape would make me give up a child now. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to giving your child away. Do you? If you have never given a child up for adoption, you don't.<P>del

del,<P>NO offense but I don't believe that this was an adoption thread. I believe that it was mentioned in one of the posts, you answered as if that was the only discussion. Granted most of us don't know what it is like to give a child up for adoption. We all know that our h's made mistakes also. We are here to support each other, and listen to each other, not judge on comments. Just like I don't know what it is like to give a child up for adoption. I am sure you do not know the pain of having a OW/OC thrown in your face, and wreck havoc in your life unless you have lived it. I am not trying to be critical. But one of the last things that we need to hear is that it isn't only the OW's fault line, and once again how the OW is a saint for taking care of the OC. Alot of these women use the OC for money, they ONLY keep the OC for money. So maybe they weren't being so noble to not think about adoption. <P>babstr

well said babstr, that post got me on a frenzy. i know i don't know what it is like to give a child up for adoption, but i do know how much it means to someone who can't have a child to be able to adopt one. i probably would have had a different opinion of this situation all of "us"(we know who we are) are in 5 years ago. probably would have said to leave and he should be with the child. well, no one knows what it is like to be in this situation until they are in it. and i wish it on no one. though it might shut some people up if they actually had to be in our shoes... would stop that judgemental, poor OW stuff pretty quick...<P>happy_girl<P>

You and happy_girl have been Godsends to me here. Don't know what I'd do without you both.[/B][/QUOTE]<P>oh ktgirl, you are too nice. i am glad i can help someone. it is a bit therapeutic. i found that out volunteering on a rape/sexual abuse hotline, you learn a lot listening to others and they can also learn from you. write me when you get a chance. i lost your email address. hope you are doing well. i am okay. have my up days and down days. today is a bit of a down day, but tomorrow will be a new one and hopefully good. take care and talk to ya later!!<P> <P>happy_girl

Delphi:<P>Thirty years ago I gave up my son for adoption. I am more than completely qualified to demand that the OW do the same.<P>My pain and sacrifice was nothing compared to the joy and love my bio son's family had in their hearts for him. My 'sacrifice' was his salvation. My pain and suffering is of absolutely NO CONSEQUENCE. It's just too damn bad for me. <BR>It was the consequences of my behavior at the time, and no reason for me to make him pay for it simply because I just "can't bear the thought of giving him up and never seeing him again." <BR>That was MY problem and something I have to live with. He shouldn't have to do without and live without the love and guidance and nurturing he deserved. He deserved to have parents who were married who did not conceive him in disgrace.<P>Oh, and one footnote. As soon as I found out my 'boyfriend' was married, I never saw him again. He never knew of his bio-son, and more importantly, his wife never knew I existed. I spent the last four months of my pregnancy in my apartment only going out in my neighborhood so no one we knew would see me. Even if I would have kept my son, I would never in a million years taken him to court and asked for support. Years later when I was married and divorced, I got a job and took care of my other son on my own and never got one dime of court ordered support in 18 years. Ironically, the son I gave up had a better life than the one I had from my marriage. <P>To keep my son would have been the most selfish thing in the world for me to do at the time, simply because I couldn't "part" with him. <BR>How incredibly SELFISH of me to do that to him. He would not have had a father to love and nurture him as he did, he would not have had the opportunities and the advantages that he did and if I would have selfishly kept him, I would have deprived him of a stable loving home environment.<P>Yes, Delphi, I am suprememly qualified to make these demands. I am not asking anyone to do something I have not done myself. I am very passionate about this subject because I know exactly what I am speaking of.<P>I don't give one rip if the OW is in pain or has to sacrifice or go through any torturous decisions. I only care that each child has an opportunity to a stable two parent home. I only care that the whore is forcing me to divorce to protect what little I have left and is forcing us to file bankruptcy and that our adult children not find out about this because it would destroy any remaining respect for their father.<P>I COULD NOT CARE LESS ABOUT THE OW. IN FACT, I HOPE SHE SUFFERS FOR WHAT SHE HAS DONE TO ME/US.<P>We all know what our husbands have done and they have paid dearly with their loss of self respect and the ensuing financial disaster and the destruction of their homes and marriages. I can hardly stand my husband's deep remorse and devastation--or mine. My husband tried to kill himself last January and left me a suicide note saying that if he were dead, she couldn't torture me anymore.<P>So you and the bleeding heart do-gooders can get together and mewl about the 'pain' and 'sacrifice' of the OW who only keep their OC's for a meal ticket in many cases, and the ones who do love their children certainly don't love them enough to do the right thing by them. Just remember, where the OW's are concerned, it is the same selfishness that allows them to keep a kid they cannot provide for that allowed them to get into bed with a married man in the first place. <P>Today, I have a relationship with my bio son and his family. I maintain a safe distance and never intrude myself into his life and as a result, I am not a threat and I am welcome in his family's home. In fact, I am considered a part of their family, a distant cousin or sister figure, but a part of the family nonetheless. I am extremely grateful for the opportunity to connect with him.<P>You are right about one thing. Most of our husband's are ashamed and horrified by what they have done to their wives and children and families and feel deep remorse for their indescretion and the pain they have caused. And yes, they DO want to be rid of it and not have the horrible fallout torture their wives and deny their children becasue the OW selfishly kept a child she had no business keeping, let alone having, let alone screwing a man she knew was married yet in many, many cases, deliberately got herself pregnant and changed our lives forever.<P>Catnip =^^=

I'm not a bleeding heart do gooder who is making excuses for anybody. I am sure not making excuses for your H's or the OW's. But having given a child up for adoption myself I can say I would never do it again. And just because I did it doesn't mean that I can demand that someone else do it. Maybe someone who is pregnant should listen to two sides like yours and mine before they make up their mind to give a baby up for adoption. Also not all children raised by single mothers are doomed to an awful life. When a man and a woman have sex they know that they might get pregnant. Even if they use birth control they know that it is a possibility. The problem is that your husbands took this risk without your consent with another woman. Now you are paying the price. That's not fair, for sure but that is the way it is. I realize that this is not an adoption forum so I won't go on about this. But I feel strongly that no one has a right to demand that a woman give a baby up for adoption or also demand that she have an abortion, because if someone could force someone to give a baby away why couldn't they force them to kill it? If your husbands had honored their vows and of the OW had said NO (which she should have and is wrong to have not said NO but by the way, you will never really know for sure what all was said by your H to her), the pregnancy would never have happened. I just know that no matter how I got pregnant and even if I was unknowingly pregnant by a married man, never again would I give a baby up for adoption. I can be a good mother and I would not be being selfish for keeping my baby and being a good mother and perhaps marrying and giving the child a stepfather. What's the difference between a step father and an adoptive father? Never again would I do it. Of course since I am past child bearing age it won't happen anyway. But, for me the pain was so deep and still is. I miss my daughter.<P>Del