Even when things are not twisted and pounded into the gorund I find myself feeling worse than I was. It has become so unhealthy, I have not posted much and have not even been involved in most of the upheaval of late but I have kept up. I felt like there was a little family here but I can not stand it anymore, it has affected my healing.<P>Good luck to all.<p>[This message has been edited by carriemom (edited May 01, 2001).]

carriemom,<BR>I have to agree with you I had been doing very well lately. But I too am getting to upset. I have about had enough the place is not the same. with love flowerseed

I'm just getting back...what has happened? Don't leave yet.

flowerseed, don't leave. YOu have been such a support to me. Hope you don't leave the forum, I need all the support I can get. Please rethink.

Oh Carriemom don't you dare leave!<P>I, too was feeling unsafe. I only post where I'm needed AND if I see an answer I don't want to read from you-know-who...I skip it.<P>I just work around the situation, ya know?<P>I'm down too but we all need you to give your input,ok?<P>Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

lsb,<BR>I dont understand how a person that is so agaisnt hate can come here and first thing start whienning about how terrible a place this is. I guess I have more respect for people then that. I like to look before I leap.If I didnt like what I saw I would leave.It seems like everytime we get going on a good subject we have a know it all my way or no way twist this around bullcrap. It really is beginning to look like the same person maybe I'm nuts. I think c.d. started a good thread and along comes someone to poop on it and start putting labels on peoples feelings and thoughts and twisting things around. I'll just have to learn to ignore the replies that get my defenses up for somebody agaist anger she sure knows how to create frustration . with love flowerseed

Why do you feel you have to leave? I agree this place can be a little upsetiing but it can also be very helpful, I hope you will stay

Geez, everybody is always talking about leaving. You are all not going to leave me here talking to myself are you? I do that enough as it is <P>You have to expect some disagreement, especially when you are in situations like we all are. Can you imagine how sad it would be if we all agreed with each other all the time? There wouldn't even be need for the forum. I love hearing everybody's different perspectives - it helps me to grow and to learn and to develop my sense of how to deal with this terribly painful and challenging situation. Even when I totally oppose someone's viewpoint, just reading their thoughts helps me to think about my own perspective, to examine my motives. We are ALL learning as we go here folks. There was no "OC Handbook" out there the last time I checked Barnes and Nobles (although didn't heavenly offer to write one?). <P>But if everybody goes running off, the whole support network fails. Don't give up just because some people get on your nerves or push your buttons. <P>Carriemom, if you are feeling badly after coming here, take a break from it. Give it a couple weeks. Then come back and check in again. I would sure hate to see you go. I think about you so often. You are always in my prayers.<P>-cd

Dear Carriemom,<P>What has happened to us is difficult enough...<BR>we all need a place to sort out our feelings.<BR>This should be that place. I understand what<BR>you are going through-and I know how disturbing<BR>the "not-knowing" can be. This has changed the<BR>way you look at life, how you feel about every<BR>little thing, yet you dont know IF there is an<BR>oc or not. Believe me, I know how drastically<BR>it alters your outlook, mood, desire, on and on...<BR>Through all the bs on this site, I still see<BR>caring men and women trying to help each other.<BR>I hope you stay. You come across as a sincere<BR>women who is dealing with "the demons".<BR>Hope to see you posting again. Take good care.<BR>P.S. I loved your May Day baskets!<BR>

carriemom,<P>sorry that you are feeling the way you are. i too am feeling less and less like this was the family it once was. i don't feel that this should be a place for debates. that is my opinion of course, but it should be a support forum.we used to agree to disagree, but without all the emotionally provoking discussions that seem to go on all the time. back then, it was not that we were all for one thing, or all for the other. we simply asked questions when we needed help, and answered questions when others needed help. when i first came here in june of 2000, it was a place i loved to come. i know how you are feeling, i have been coming less and less, it is just not the place it used to be. prayers for you and your family. i sent you an email, in case you want to participate in the egroup i set up a couple of weeks ago. no debates over there...or people calling us hateful.<P>happy_girl

Hi fellow Marriage Builders,<P>I came over from recovery to see if things are back to "normal" over here, and I'm sorry to see they are not.<P>You know, there are literally thousands of people who visit this site each day. Many of them never post, but most receive great help just by reading the information and finding out that they are not the only people living with this horrible situation. The very best help comes from others who know first-hand what this is like. You all offer that to each other, and it would be a shame for it to be lost.<P>There seems to be only two or three posters who actually would like to see this forum destroyed, but they can't do that unless the rest of us ALLOW them to. And I don't plan to let a few troublemakers take away something that has been a lifeline for so many.<P>When a sincere Marriage Builder talks about leaving this site, those troublemakers rejoice! When an evil influence finds out that they have hurt one of us, it makes them happy! As a Christian, I have my own opinion about what that evil truly is, but it is certainly manifesting itself in the form of a few posters whose only pleasure seems to be in hurting others.<P>Please consider this, when you see a post from this kind of person, ignore it. If they post on a thread, end that thread and start another. I know that requires an immense amount of self control, especially when some of the posts are personal attacks. But I really believe that if these "people" realize that they are not causing the hurt and pain they seek, they will go elsewhere to try to make someone else just as miserable as they are.<P>There is certainly no point in trying to reason with someone of this character. If they were reasonable they wouldn't be doing this in the first place!<P>So, to all who are sincere about saving our marriages, our families, AND ourselves, DON'T LEAVE THIS SITE, just DON'T READ posts from the very few who are here trying to destroy it. Please know that all branches of the forum are supporting you all as you try to overcome this TEMPORARY problem.<P>Peppermint<p>[This message has been edited by peppermint (edited May 02, 2001).]

Dear everyone,<P>You all make a lot of sense. The members who are completely disgusted and ready to quit -- I fully understand. But I also the ones who are saying IGNORE THEM. <P>Peppermint you wrote some very compelling reasons for staying. I feel like happy_girl, I am happy to hear what other people think but I do not want to debate -- meaning I am not interested in DEFENDING my feelings or my position. cd, you are right -- it is good to hear how other people are dealing with this problem. Some of their suggestions I may take, others not. <P>It is a different matter when you present your story and your reasons for why you think what you do and I persist in ARGUING with you that you need to change your thinking. That is not sharing views -- that is coercion. And that is how I feel that I am constantly be CHALLENGED to defend what I think.<P>Our personal relationships with God are especially untouchable. No one on this forum should tell anyone how God feels about what they have done or are doing. How we worship and the truths that we hold are sacred ground to each of us. We can share them if we choose, but I would never tell anyone that God wants them or does not want them to do anything.<P>Maybe we can all try this again, because I agree with all of you we need this place. Carriemom, don't give up yet. Let's try one more time.<P>(BTW, cd, the OC Manual is currently in production ... )<P>love,<BR>heavenly

Heavenly: I can tell you this...God does want us to love our brothers and sisters! What do you think of that???!!! Just being a smart a?? I'm glad you guys are trying to keep things 'inline' here. Looks like the forum needs it.<P>God Bless<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Dear Heavenly,<BR>Great! I can't wait to read it. So, do I get an autographed copy?<BR>cd

I'll second what Peppermint has said: there are thousands of people who visit this site and are helped tremendously by what they read here.<P>When I was in counseling with Steve Harley, he let me know that there were (lots of) people who had written him letting him know what good information they were getting from the forum. These people never posted---they simply lurked and read.<P>It's as safe here as anywhere on the net. I encourage you all to participate in public discussions: not only for your benefit, but for the benefit of countless others who visit here in need of help. Do what's right---you don't need to shy away just because someone tells you that you're full of hate. People often project their insecurities and pain onto others---be strong and bear it with good will and grace.

carriemom, Im so so sorry you feel this way. Im new and I too have sense some hostility. Its to bad you are being ran off. This place has helped balance out my life and on the ongoings. Please just dont reply or read post that upset you. People new to this situation need people like you. Please keep that in mind. Hope you stick around. Take Care...

Hey guys,<P> Don't let these fools get to you, we're family here!! We're in this for the long haul!<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg