I just wanted to make this thread for you to be welcomed here. There are a lot of women in your shoes here. A couple who are fighting to have visitation allowed, and going to court for it, are Unsure and CDCollins.(sorry Unsure, I couldn't remember the rest of your user name ) As you may have guessed from my other posts to you, I am in the oposite position, but am raising the baby w/my H. The XOM doesn't know about her, and we hope he never will, due to his violent nature. I was stupid, but we love Abbi with all our hearts and would never trade her for anything.<P>I would recommend having your H get a DNA test to be certain that this baby is his. There has been one case in which the test proved that it was not, and that was with MyCross. She still posts every once in a while. I would make sure of that before you go any further with looking into visitation/and possibly custody, if that does become an option.<P>If you have any questions on how to work things on this site, as far as posting and stuff, feel free to ask. Everyone is more than willing to help those who are still learning their way around the site.<P>Anyway, welcome to our little family, and feel free to post often with questions or responses. Everyone here is here to help those that need the support.<P>Tigger

Tigger<BR>Thank you for your warm welcome. I am glad to meet you. Being on the other side of the fence you may be able to give me some insite on my Ow. I may be crazy, & if not this will certainly make me so, but the way I have tried to deal w/ Ow is the same as my H. When I was really mad & unforgiving toward him, I felt the same toward her. Once I decided to forgive him & work with him for a better marriage, I didnt feel I could hold her more accountable, since HE was the one I loved & trusted & the 1 who hurt me, NOT her...she was just his helper, didnt know me, nor set out purposefully to hurt me. My H did! She had her reasons for doing what she did, just as my H did. So all-through-out I have never belittled her, or talked with her in a disrespectful way. I want her cooperation in making contact w/ OC easier. Why does she hate me & have an attitude toward me? Once I asked her if she wanted us to disappear so she & her H could raise the OC exclusively...at that time we were undecided @ how we wanted to handle things, and would have taken into consideration anything! All she would tell me is "thats none of your business." She has maintained contact by phone long distance w/my H but he never asks the important questions! Do you think in most cases its better for the OC not to be divided? What if the birth mother & her family are unstable? OC was born tonight & it unexpectedly sent me into a tailspin, to where I thought I dont care if I ever hear about or see that OC, & I would really like to ditch OW forever! Its tearing my H up too. We are talking to Dr. tomorrow @ paternity test. How is that coordinated long distance? I admire you & H for having the courage to do what you think is right for OC. You know better than anyone what that is. I know a family very well who has done what you are attempting to do & it worked out great for them. The "Dad" loves the girl just as his own, and talking to him 35 yrs. later...she IS HIS girl. There are some really big-hearted, good-hearted people in the world. How wonderful for you that you have one of them. Thanks again.

Dear Heart of Hope,<BR>I wanted to add my welcome, and to answer your questions:<P>We had DNA test long distance. We were in NC and ow/oc in PA. H had to go to a lab in our town and have it done, while ow had to take oc to a lab in her town and have it done. Somehow, results were compared and it came up a match. Just wanted to let you know that your h does NOT have to travel to ow's town for the DNA test.<BR>-cd

Heart of Hope,<P>First, let me say that I am sorry that the news about the birth affected you so. I can only imagine how it felt! Second, I feel that the way you are dealing with XOW is just fine. Everyone has their way of dealing with this situation, and you need to do what is best for you and your marriage.<P>Now, for your question about your H and the XOW's response to having you two involved in OC's life. I think that your H needs to dig down deep, and decide if he truly wants contact. If XOW and her H are willing to raise the baby together, and are willing to love it, then which would be the best for all involved? If XOW and H still have contact, is it just about the OC, or is it more? Not to say that your H wants to continue the relationship with XOW. But, is that what XOW is doing? How does XOW's H fit into all this? Is he willing to love this baby as his? If so, your H could be "off the hook" so to speak. The way I feel about that is if they are willing to raise the baby as their own, then they should NOT go after your H for CS. I have always said that the only way I would disrupt another's life is if XOM came back, somehow finding out, and asks for visitation. He has proven himself a danger to my family(threatened my H's life when my H had nothing to do with me ending it! ). I would hold the CS over his head, as money is the most important thing in OM's life! I don't know if I have said this here before, but after I came clean w/H, XOM asked about things that he had bought for me. Well, my H came back with the perfect answer, which didn't offend me, even then, "XOM have gotten what you paid for!" We are a year into recovery, and on the board for 10 months. My H and I haven't even done a DNA test, because it doesn't matter, Abbi is HIS and he will always be her DADDY. Just like your friend's daughter.<P>I think that after the DNA testing, your H and OW should decide what is best for the baby. Would the child benefit from your H being there every month or so? How far away is she from you guys? Or, if XOW and her H don't want your H involved, your H should just back away. I know this is hard, as I have put a child up for adoption. But, your H will survive. You need to have your H decide what would be best for the child, not himself. If XOW's H is willing to be the Daddy to the baby, I think that it would be best to just let them do that. But, if they decide that they still want CS as well, then take that ball and run with it. Ask for everything you can get, as far as visitation is concerned!<P>Again, I am sorry for your pain at the news of the birth. I am sure that more people will be by soon.<P>Love,<P>Tigger

Tigger, Ive so much to tell you since last post. I can really ramble, but Ill try not to make it a 10 pager! Thanks for your concern. It was well founded, and things have gone from bad to worse. First though, let me thank you for info on paternity. H's Dr. said he can get it done in our town and she in hers. We live @ 1,500 miles from her. Shes agreeable, so far. H was "moved" the nite of birth. She called while baby was in the room crying & he could hear her, I thought he was going to cry. But since, said he's glad its over & doesnt feel very compelled toward the baby right now. Here's the deal w/ OW and OW's H. She emotional unstable & a very needy person. I understand she had a horrible life, and wants somone to take care of her. she & H are married 10 yrs. He was the OVER controlling type. Never giving her money, didnt want her to have any friends, etc...One night he brings home another girl for a little 3way fun, which OW declines. Their marriage goes down hill after that, but they continue living together. Ow meets my H in April 2000, her H doesnt move out till Sept. He didnt know @ A . When he leaves for where they live now, he has all the utilities to their home cut-off. Now,his own 2 kids are living in the house with OW! Shes now in a pickle. Single parent, 2 kids, a drop-out w/ no skills & no job. And my wonderful H thought this was an appealing situation to get involved with, as if we didnt have enough problems of our own!!! When I found out @A in Feb (while celebrating our anniversary & 1 week before our son had major surgery...that was a bad month) I had no contact with OW (except seeing her at my Chiropracters office & just staring at her) until April 2001. I found a text message on H's phone saying they were to meet the next day. I was led to believe that tho there was some contact by phone about pregnancy, he hadnt seen her. I flipped out & told him "if you wanna be w/ her go to her, I'll hold the door, I dont want you if youre gonna see her" He said he wanted to stay. So I called her, & left a message for her in a very angry tone, saying he would NOT be seeing her tomorrow! She called me back & said I had some nerve leaving an angry message on her machine that her kids could hear. I replied, she shouldnt have put her boys in a position where they would ever receive an angry message from someones wife! The next day she called H & said she couldnt deal with me. What she did was: within 3 DAYS she took her kids out of school, quit her job, left her doctors, abandoned her home, and moved 1,500 mi.s away. (I told H I wish I had called her in Feb!!!) She went back to H who she has since said she doesnt love, she thinks hes a jerk, and things between them are very stressed. The H took her back & said he doesnt care if the babys not his. I think she is a very decietful person & has not been honest with her H @ my H wanting to be part of kids life, or even that she's had continued contact with him. Any mail we send her goes to her home address here, then forewarded to her friend here, who (possibly repackages it, as if from friend) and then forewarded to her in the new state. She will not give us her address or phone # there. We have no way to contact her right now. She said they dont want anything from us, no money nothing. Yet she tells my H they have NO money. At least she has no way to return here! When preg. was first discovered my H told her he didnt want to be a father again, but after he adjusted, and once I knew & was willing to accomodate having OC in our life, he changed his mind. Shes having a hard time accepting my H may actually want to be a part-time Dad, & feel now she left for nothing. If she'd have stayed I think she envisions she'd have seen my H occasionally thru the baby. H has repeatedly asked her to call him at home, but she always calls his cell during the day. Im mad at him that hes not more insistant. Changing cell # isnt an option right now. In her calls shes always singing the blues to him about how her life stinks, & how she misses him. It pulls at his heart strings. He can hardly bear to think of his OC being raised with this disfunctional family. Even if they want him to disappear, I dont know if he could, if he would ever stop worrying. And since he still has feelings for her, a part of him still wishes he could help her, and feels guilty that he's "put her in the position shes in." All of this is driving me crazy. Especially H's attatchement to OW, and knowing there probably always be continued contact between them.(I have told him as part of the terms to stay with me I wanted no calls or seeing her ever again for the rest of his life. We'll deal with a 3rd party or I'll handle everything @ OC. She would make that impossible for me, I think.) The nite of the OCs birth. I went to his Moms to cry while he showered. I was there @2hrs. He called looking for me, and said to say he was waiting for me to come home. When I got home he was laying on the couch watching Tv. He looked up when I came in and asked "are you alright?" I said "no." He never got up, offered any comforting words, nothing. Just kept watching Tv. So I got ready for bed. I layed in there just fuming over his disregard for my feelings. And I got up and started beating my bed with my pillow. I was totally out of control,which is not me. When he came in to see what was going on I told him "come-on in its your turn!" Then I actually started beating him with the bed pillow untill I was too tired to continue. He just stood there & took it. I told him I was tired of him being more concerned @ her than me, and we needed to decide something right now. He said he wanted a separation, that we need some space from each other. With my son this will be hard. So Ive decided to stay with a girlfriend for a month. Close by home to take & p/u kids from school, & stay w/ them till H comes home from work. I cant physically move my son by myself. Its the best option. Im afraid that the emotions of the moment prompted something I didnt really want, yet on the other hand maybe this is long over due, seeing as, after 6 mo.'s he still is struggling with feelings for her. They've had only phone calls for 4 months & I would have thought he be ready to move on by now. Any way in conclusion, I spoke w/ her Tues, the day the baby was born, and she was very cold toward me, so I wonder how things will work out. Its scary. Bye-Bye Thanks for listening.

Heart Of Hope,<P>I am so sorry that you are now in a seperation situation. Have you read any of the Harley's principles or any of their books? I would recommend seeking counseling, either by the Harley's or by a counselor who is familuar with those principles.<P>As for the XOW, well, I honestly don't know what to say. If the marriage is so awful, and she is unstable, is their any way for your H to try to get custody? Would you still be willing to support your H in that decision?<P>Again, I am sorry that you have been through even more pain due to this situation.<P>Love,<P>Tigger

Heart of Hope,<P>I am so sorry to hear what state you are in right now. All I can really say on that is to read the Harley principles and please read Surviving An Affair (which u can get on this site). I will be praying for you to be able to handle this and for H to wake up!<P>Just a quick question...if ow's H is so very horrible....why would he take her back and want to raise child on his own? Do you think this is part of her ploy for sympathy? That was my ow's game. And it worked for quite sometime. She even had ME feeling bad for her for a while. She was good, let me tell you. Sounds like this one is too. But ya know what? Not your problem. Not H's either. She knew what she was doing. She is an adult and knew she was sleeping with a man that was already taken. If she wanted a way out from her H (not that i condone this either, but at least it wouldnt have involved someones H) she should have set her sights on a man that was not already taken. If it is that bad for her kids she can find help. Hello! Welfare! Or I am sure they can find a nice foster home until she is on her feet. Your H's comment about how he feels he got her into this...Ive heard that one. And you better believe that is coming out of ow's mouth. He needs to worry about what he got YOU into. And his children in the marriage. Honey I will definately be praying for you all.<P>Love<P>broken_wings

Tigger & Broken Wing:<P>I just typed one of my long replys & I entered my password wrong so it erased. I dont know if I can do it all over again. Anyway heres the gist of it.<P>After talking w/ good friend Mille, she convinced me that I should stay in house, & H should go. I mentioned financial strain, and she said, "thats the way it will be if you get divorced, let him get use to it." I thought that was pretty smart. I met H for lunch & told him I reconsidered, & since Im not the one wanting separation he should leave. He said hed think @ it & let me know Sun. In the heat of that big fight maybe we both said things we didnt mean.<BR>I'll let you know what happens. On the whole things are pretty pleasant around here when OW doesnt call.<P>Yes I have read Harleys book, (H hasnt) and am familiar with Plan B. I will institute it as best I can, but wont drive myself crazy to the minute detail. It will give H a way to see what divorce life would be like.<P>As for Ow. I think everything Broken Wing said could be true for my OW. She is very deceitful and Im sure will say whatever it takes to keep my H feeling sorry for her. We asked early on, when she was raising 2 kids alone, if we could raise OC. She said No. She said her H took her back because he "found the LOrd" What kind of guy he is now we dont know. We only know what OW tells H: that hes a jerk. My H met OW & her H thru our work, and he said his 1 time with H he was a very unreasonable guy. Evidentally he racked up lots & lots of credit card debt B4 leaving town & shutting off utilities on wife & kids. Speculation was drug problem? What the truth is I dont know, Ive just heard these stories from my H who got them from lieing, cheating, decietful OW! He was OW's Knight in shining armor, her idol, she worshipped & adored him (so he says) What man can give up that fantasy too easily?) I guess it's like me having a hard time seeing my H for what he really is. Hard to give up the old image because it made me feel so good.<P>One saying I read throughout this mess is "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." I keep reminding myself of that. It has helped me quit dwelling in the past & face what I have to deal w/ today. Much as I dont want certain things to be true, they are and you either cope, or you cut-N-run. Im not the cut-N-run type. Not yet anyway.<P>OW will never give OC up for adoption or foster care. That was her life, and it didnt turn out well for her. She had to go to court agains foster dad, it got that bad. She substanciated it w/ newpaper articels to my H, so we believe that much is true. And she hates me enough to never let us have her. <P>My fear now is that she will call even more, every time OC has a runny nose! Does anyone have expierence w/ this?<BR>Of course I want no contact whats-so-ever. Is that unreasonable. Could it really work thru me, or a third party? Or is that not REALITY?? Also, if someones cell phone is cut-off, can they still text message...send or receive?<P>Bye thanks again for your support. It helps alot.<BR>

Hi Heart of Hope,<P><BR>Just wanted to say a belated welcome.<P>Sorry to read that you and your H are seperated.<BR>I hope you are able to work through this difficult<BR>time. You'll be in my prayers.<P>We have a little in common in that the op is also<BR>married and raising the child as their own. She<BR>only wanted to stop by my H's work to pick up money<BR>once a week! Said that if we wanted joint custody,<BR>it wasnt worth it to her. We have never taken a dna test<BR>because she didnt go through with it. Unfortuantely she<BR>lives a few miles away from us...too close to pretend<BR>she and oc do not exist. We are in limbo.<P>My best for you and your entire family!<BR>Take care, fluke