i want to thank all of you for your kind words and your full support. it has touched my heart in a way that nothing has ever been able to do in my life. for me to think that there would be so many out there from so far away and so diverse a background who would take the time to offer me both advice and consellation simply floors me. thank you all so much from the bottom of my heart (and i feel like its almost drained completely dry).<p>i do feel however that there is one among us that may need your prayers more then myself. and that is jessica. from the post i read of hers i fear she is falling into a dangerous depression and that can be real frightening. she will be at the top of my prayer list what ever good that will do. but i'll try for her. <p>thank you all again and i will keep everyone posted.

God bless you, Pops---and fullhouse too. I hope that the two of you will be able to work together in a way that builds your love for each other---to find a solution that will put you on the path to healing.

pops,<p>My prayers for you and your whole family. That you can think of someone else at a time like this is amazing.<p>I only heard of someone in your situation secondhand; a friend lived next to a caucasion man who had accepted his wife's (half-Afro-american) daughter from an affair and, obviously, the marriage. My friend thought he was a saint (understandably so), talked about how especially good he was to the little girl, obviously loved the child a lot, but how his 2 older children got heckled and teased by schoolmates who said "she can't be your sister!" At first I wondered why they didn't just tell people she was adopted rather than the stigma of an affair, but then realized that wouldn't make sense to their older children, having seen the pregnancy.<p>I know a midwife who tells women this: Every baby deserves a parent/s who is able to look in that babies eyes and KNOW that the child is SOOO special that all else pales in comparison... IF you are unable to look at your baby/child in that way... consider adoption...
NO child/baby should be considered a burden, payback for misdeeds, etc...<p>However, I realize your situation is much more complex than that, your wife resisting adoption.<p>I really feel for you. There are no easy answers. May God guide you to His will, and angel wings enfold you.
J

Pops,<p>First, it is good to hear that FH and Grace are well. I do like that name by the way. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do have a couple of comments and a few questions.<p>First, unfortunately I live in N. Ca or I would definitely take you up on your offer. In fact I would suggest you go out and play around sometime, like today. "A long walk puncuated by disappointment." may be what you need at this time. I hate to tell you how many times I have stood in the woods with a driver in my hand trying to hit a 280 yd shot through a 1 ft gap with the predictable (no certain [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) results.<p>Pops hang in there. I would have to say that yesterday/today was probably the worst day of your life and YET there is hope. Don't give up that Pops.<p>I do have a few questions: Do your older children know of the circumstances? Are they fearful of their family breaking up? Have you talked with them about how they feel? <p>I realize we have been talking to you about this situation and have even talked with FH a time or two, but I worry about your other children as well. You need to be talking to them Pops. In doing so, you may find the answers you need. You know "out of the mouths of Babes". <p>Finally, what has FH said to you lately about this? Has she talked with you much after the delivery?<p>I know this sounds nosey and it probably is, but I suspect that the advice you get will be better if people have some idea where all parties concerned are. After all there are 6 other children, you, FH, and Grace all affected by what you decide, and what FH decides.<p>I know it should never have come to this, but as you know this is the reality of it.<p>In any event, hang in there until the shock of this reality wears off and keep posting.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

to answer some of the questions. fh's obgyn did know of the situation from the start. she has gone to the same group for all 6 of our c's. her favorite dr. was the only one who knew of situation though. he was to do delivery but was called to surgery and the delivery dr. although we knew him he had no idea of situation. om did not show up and i imagine is just hoping this thing staysaway from him. he is very cheap i think. if he had shown up i am sure i would have beat him to death with an instrument suitable for the job, a used bed pan.<p>our kids were told months ago that fh was having a baby and that i was not the father. they were told at that time that we were not planning any divorce or separation. the 4 younger ones (13,11,10,&6) have not put the emotions involved in this type of thing together with the baby yet that i know of. the older ones (20 & 19)were very upset. 20yr old daughter was extremely mad at her mother and things did not begin to get civil again until after she moved out of the house. she is doing well now and is to be married sometime this march. her marriage plans were not spurned on by fh and my situation. our 19 year old son was upset but he is a very easy going kid and figured there is nothing he can do about it so he just contiues to let his mother know he loves her. fh does not talk to any of them about this and that has actually been suggested to us by the counselors. it is to advanced for them at this time in their lives. i dissagree. i feel and have asked fh to discuss this at least with our older 2. but she doesn't think it appropriate. we have not discussed the posiblity of adoption with them which is another reason i am feeling behind the 8 ball so to speak. they have not been prepared for that emotional path should it have or become a reality. i have spoken with the older 2 about it and they seem to understand that it is a viable option for fh and me.<p>fh said to me last night at the hospital that i should call the adoption lady and start proceedings. as much as i wantted to do this i still think we need to make sure she can deal with that conclusion. i am going to call and start things as we still have 90 - 100 days to change our or her mind. at least we may get something in motion in the event that that solution turns out to be our best shot. <p>keep you all posted.

Pops,<p>I just wanted to give you my spport I'm sorry that you and your wife are going through this. Good luck with whatever decsions you both make.<p>Unsure

pops,<p>Do yourself and your W a favor. Go see the adoption lady and start the paper work. You are doing something that really drives me nuts when people do it to me.<p>FH has said to get the papers started. She has said that she would chose you over the baby. THis is very hard for her. Now if you really want this baby put up for adoption, don't fight her on it. She has made her statements. You know she doesn't want to, heck you couldn't love her if she really wanted to get rid of the child as soon as she could. But don't try to argue her "back" into keeping the baby.<p>My W will sometimes ask me to do something. I don't want to, but I think about it and decide it would be agood thing. I agree, then she starts on me about why I am not doing this for the right reason, why I need to reconsider. I am think "heck, I did think about it and I agree, now you are arguing with me because I agree. What is up with that?"<p>
What I am suggesting is not to quiz her about does she "feel" right about doing this. <p>I would ask her about her thinking, confirm with her, but do start the process. The longer she bonds the harder it will be on you. Undoubtably she will be home today or tomorrow and the children will start bonding. Finally, pops you will start bonding as well. Those little raskels are not defenseless as you well know. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So if FH has agreed don't demand that she sign "enthusiastically in blood". She cannot be very enthusiastic, but she is apparently making decisions.<p>pops you know this is so hard on her. Pops I know that putting the baby up for adoption will be hard on you as well. <p>So start the paper work, and then talk with FH not once but a lot. You know she is hurting making this decision, and that is normal. What you really need to know and she needs to be really clear on is her reasoning and thoughts. You don't to have her put the baby up for adoption and then you decide that you cannot work on the marriage. <p>So if part of this is to keep you, then make sure you want to be kept.<p>Pops, I do think adoption may well be better for the baby. But, look at K and see the strong positives of going the other way. You and FH need to talk like never before. I mean honest, straight from the heart, and with all of the prayer you two can muster.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So if part of this is to keep you, then make sure you want to be kept.<hr></blockquote><p>No truer words were written her Pops. Make sure you want to be kept!<p>Would you miss the former life you and W shared? Sans the infidelity? Would you be ok to be on your own? I KNOW you'd eventually be ok, but can you live without FH? If not then talk, and be honest! Seek a counselor.<p>I know what you mean about the older kids. Just watch out for their anger in a little while. They can become angry and moody w/o knowing why. They may also need counseling and eventually all of you together to reassure them you're staying together. (If you do).<p>I will pray for you Pops. Perhaps this spring you'll be out on the golf course with a better life and future. <p>I know what you mean about a drained heart. Hey the used bed pan sounds just about good right now [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>Take care of yourself Pops.<p>I wish there was a way for us all to get together in person and hug each other.<p>The people on this forum are truly the best inspiration a human being could have. <p>Prayers to you Dear Man.<p>Debi

Pops don't delay, and best if you make it a irrevocable adoption sealed records and the works. again don't delay. to do so will hurt your wife and could mess up things for you. please full steam ahead God bless

well i went back to the hospital friday night after talking on the phone with adoption agency friday afternoon. i told fh what they said we needed to do and she said she couldn't go through with it. the light at the end of my personal tunnel is getting clearer and clearer. very honest discussion followed. same ones i have been having with her for the past 6 wekks or so. i have used every analogy, every example of what if, and every possible ending to our situation i could think of to try and make her see that bringing this child into our home is going to be a 50/50 possibility at best of me being able to accept it. asked her please don't gamble with our marriage. well baby came home saturday morning. and it was not good for me. ihave asked her to stay in our 6 year olds room with grace as i don't wish to have them next to me in our bed. please don't tell me anything about plan b now. the truth is that if we went to plan b i would most likely be the one to not want to return. the answer to your question gemini is although i would definitely miss what we had before i will not miss what we have at this time with the baby. i will not miss the hurt of her holding his child to her breast. agin this may seem strange but i feel almost ashamed of myself that i can look at this innocent child and feel the hurt and feelings disassociation build in my heart. i have even tried explaining to fh that love bank account is empty. i ahve told her that i am out of suggestions and ideas to try and save our relationship. every one i have offered she has found a way of refuting. now it is her chance to find an alternative or some form of reconciliation process and put it in motion. i am open to anything she wishes to try. she has said maybe she should find a christain counselor. i told her that we had already been there but i will try whatever she wanted. i personaly feel this was the wedge that will keep us apart forever. regardless of what either of us desire. i am not leaveing my house or my children and i will not ask her to leave until she has a chance to get another job and get on her feet financialy. therefore she has that long to try and find us a way of reconciliation. as emotional as this is and has been for me i have also come to realize that i am quite capable of starting over if that is what needs to be done. i would rather live apart then live together with her or myself being an incomplete person unable to live with our choices. I am also not th kind of person that will drag this pain out in my life for 2,3 or more years. that is not what i call love. <p>it has been so nice having all of you here to lean on. no matter which side of this fence you stand on. all viewpoints are necessary in order to see the whole picture as clearly as possible. i will keep you posted.

Pops I can identify with the sickening feeling of seeing fh holding baby to her breast a place where only your c's had a right to be.<p>As a man I'm sure this is quickly destroying the love you've had for your wife in the past.<p>I DO, however, see compassion for her by the things you've said. Letting her choose counselors. Waiting until fh gets on her feet. Not just leaving her at this time is love. What else would keep you there putting your feelings aside for the moment? Or for as long as it takes her to "get on her feet".<p>What do the younger kids think? Do they sense the tension? With Christmas so close are you able to go on w/family traditions together? <p>Each person must decide what it is they want to do to move forward in life. Sometimes it's best to move ahead seperate. That may allow a friendship rather than anger towards fh for the rest of your lives. <p>See an affair is one thing. It ends and we the bs are left to deal with an incredible, guilt inducing, live memory....a child. <p>"For every thing there is a reason"<p>I believe that. I also believe WS, if wanting to continue a marriage should do what it takes to show bs they want to continue. That marriage comes first. Little ones grow and go on their way leaving us someday. We are then left to ourselves to perhaps grow old together. To share as we once did while dating. Alone together at last!<p>Making the OC more important than the marriage is almost too much for SOME here. <p>While each situation is different, each individual must come to do what is right for THEM and THEIR marriage.<p>I pray you have a peaceful holiday w/fh. I pray for your love to find it's way bringing you two back together if it is God's will. I think it is. Geeze all those kids together! It would be horrible to destroy all that God has given you two.<p>Tell fh I pray for her and wish her well.<p>Bless you two.<p>love
Debi

Pops,
This pain must be beyond imagination for you. I do not have any words of wisdom, but I do pray that you and fh can find a counselor who may help you both feel some peace.<p>Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Pops,<p>Though I am new to this site and don't have any life altering insight to offer, I just want to encourage you and tell you how much I admire you. Your particular circumstance does seem overwhelming. How did your six other children react to the news that their mother was pregnant by another man? Are they young, teenagers, adults? <p>I pray for God to continue to give you the patience, understanding, and love for your wife that will obviously be needed. I will be eager to learn how your relationship with the OC develops as well as the recovery of your relationship with your wife.

Pops,<p>I will continue to pray for you and FH.<p>Sincerely,
Twiisty