Just a reminder...this is not a debate forum to discuss what jerks our husbands are or what responsibilities and obligations they have to anyone. This forum is for Betrayed Spouses who are experiencing the confusion and pain of a troubled marriage in recovery and a place to share ideas of how to cope...not who is to blame or for OW's to come here to try to dump misplaced guilt or shame on the couple who chose to remain together and rebuild their lives....nothing else matters in the big scheme of things...<p>Hi Jen...eloquent and to the point as always. I'm so glad you are here to put things into perspective.<p>Twiisty...you are absolutely remarkable. A much better person than I for I would pay the court costs for the finacee to adopt because I don't want to be burdened anymore. And that's the truth. I don't care if OW's think I am a hateful witch for wanting to be released from this nightmare. So what? Who cares? Not me. I would drop to my knees in thanks if I were so lucky to have the OC issue just disappear through adoption to make my life easier and free from the reminders, memories and heartache. I would LOVE to get out of this obligation, extortion, financial burden, responsibility, theft, embezzlement. Poof.<p>CATNIP =^^=

Hey Catnip!<p>I would pay in a heartbeat...my H said the same thing, if "fiance-man" wants to adopt and they didn't have the money...we would pay ALL the costs....<p>My H is cynical in the fact that they probably want the tax-free income that comes in monthly...of course, my H knows OW and her fiance's type better than me....<p>I just wish that OC would be adopted...I think she deserves two parents that love her and know that even though she was conceived under dire circumstances...all parties involved did the RESPONSIBLE thing....(since we all know that birth control IF and WHEN used isn't 100% reliable...in our case BOTH OW and H were idiots for not USING IT.)<p>JMHO,
Twiisty.....<p>Ok....off for real now....heh heh.....got to have a conference with my Bi-polar Cub's teacher....apparently Teach and my cub are at war again and we are in the process of changing meds....

Twiisty, Jenny, Catnip, Not much time lately for a lot of words but "thankyou" for your telling it like it is .<p>As far as SG goes, if you care to look up some of ow antics follow my story from May until now.<p>This issue has me worn out.<p>BTW I was just offered health insurance through work at 100% coverage....now guess who may benefit from it? Ow whose other kids have no health insurance! Infuriates the hel* out of me!!!! Ow doesn't work. She's f'n wealthy....geeeeeezzzzeeee.....<p>Of course h will pay THAT premium and if it's put into place ow will have to stay in the "network" or pay things herself!<p>Gotta run...steak on the grill and a "cold one" waiting......uh er...beer....cold one....not H! lol<p>Debi

Saved by Grace and Skittles,<p>Thanks so much for chiming in on my thread. It's very refreshing to hear from women who disagree with a thread topic and aren't charging what aweful bytches BS's are who don't have a "relationship" with the OC.<p>Thank you for being respectful in your delivery. It's all anyone can hope for in this very public forum.<p>Catnip, Zebra, Unsure and Twiisty (did I forget anyone on this thread) glad to hear from you all. It had been forever since I started a thread, I knew I could depend on you to spring on and give me some thoughts.<p>I guess I just get so frustrated by people popping in to tell us that we are sooooo dead wrong for the choices we make. <p>True, it would be so great if the utopian theories worked in real life. They don't because real life has kinks. There are real personalities and character flaws at work.<p>Twiisty... you are soooooo right. You can't miss what you don't have. If many of the OW in our lives would spend their energy loving themselves and their child instead of trying to find ways to, like in my case... get my H to come over, find excuses to call H, etc. they would probably attract a loving man who WANTS to be a father to her child. <p>Imagine that... a man who wants to love a child as oppose to a man who is pushed into a corner just because his sperm was involved. (btw, I too am one of those BS's who's OW has admited to lying about birth control and planned her pregnancy to "get" H.)<p>What about the many many single mothers that adopt (fathers too i might add). The adoption system obviously doesn't have a problem with single parents raising productive and healthy children.... so what's wrong with OW doing the same.<p>If they wanted to (like Twiisty) they can do it and do it right without the bio-dad. The problem is... they don't want to. My OW just recently admited to a mutual friend that even after over a year of H being home and re-dedicated to me and our family she still holds out hope he'll in her words "see the light" and come back to her.<p>It's all a matter of will and being committed. Just like a single mom who refuses to go on state aid. It's so easy to just sign up and get your EBT card and WIC, but so many single women refuse to go that route and choose not to. Many of these OW can choose to raise healthy productive children ALONE if they want to.<p>Oh, one last thing.... i wonder do any OW go to the internet boards where mothers who have given their children up for adoption go for support and tell them how wrong they are for denying their own flesh and blood????? I guess that only applies to, as they like to call them.... "dead beat dads."<p>
To the OW who posted on this thread... what do you think of Genesis 21? No one really commented on it. Just curious.<p>Again ladies, enjoyed the dialoge. Hope to talk to ya'll in real time soon.<p>Z.

I'd like to add my 2cents in....even though it seems the topic is headed for the thread gravesite. <p>Someone in this thread mentioned how some ow are victimized by MM. I'm not sure I understand that point and need some clarification. <p>The way I see it is this...if you hear the words 'I'm married, but..' shouldn't personal integrity and dignity prevail? I'm not sure I understand how someone is victimized when they have ALL the information they need to know up front to make an informed, careful decision. <p>I'm not talking about situations in which a blatant lie is told....'I'm not married, I'm a bachelor', I'm talking about the situations in which the fatal decision to be w/ a MM is made after the word 'but,' is uttered. <p>In my situation, the xow has acted like a victim from day one. When I first met with her I admit I kind of felt sorry for the lies he told her. But, it was shortly after that she had the baby and proceeded to send a letter to my house accusing my H of taking what was precious and turning it into a nightmare. <p>It was then I realized the selfishness involved from not only my H, but her as well. How dare she send a letter to my house expressing her pain. Forgive me, but I don't think any promises before God, family and friends were made, so I'm not sure how she, or any xow can feel like a victim.<p>It may sound harsh, but in the interest of healing (all the way around) wouldn't be best to view these women as people who CHOSE WRONG??? That's the only way they can get any value from such a painful lesson.<p>I may sound harsh, but I'm not. I understand everyone makes mistakes they later regret. But accepting your role in your personal pain, and (God forbid) APOLOGIZING for choosing to ignore the obvious is the path to reconciliation and understanding, especially for the benefit of the OC caught in all the pain and resentment. <p>I think the bottom line (at least in my post) is accountability. Everyone is accountable for their actions. And then, understanding that even if being a part of the child's life is deemed appropriate for a particular situation, the understanding all the way around that EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT INTEREST TO PROTECT IN THAT SITUATION, THUS CONFLICT AND SOME PAIN IS INHERENT. <p>I speak from experience. My H and I decided to accept the child in our lives. And believe it or not, we've had to fight like he** for the right to be a part of her life INDEPENDENT of her mother. Just like someone mentioned previously, she's tried to control everything from the get go, but (going back to accountability) never accepted her role in making HER motherhood experience a nightmare. Therefore, she's tried everything in her power to discourage independent contact with the baby. <p>Now that we pay cs, and the judge has told her to her face that she was being unreasonable, she's...and I quote, "Glad the whole visitation situation is in the works..."
What a load of bs. If she's so glad, why did it take 16 months, a lawyer, a judge, and a mediator to help her see my H had a right to spend time with his daughter without her influence?<p>For those of you considering contact, let me tell you from experience, choose carefully. If you're not the type that can see bs coming a mile away, then you better think twice.<p>I think it was best said by catnip....Your marriage comes first. If you and your spouse are not on the same page, then your marriage may not survive the manipulation games of the xow.

Zebra,
Very well put. You sound like you are doing very good. You go girl.<p>Matthew,
How has things been going are you guys able to have the little one yet alone? I think what you had to say about seeing the bs coming from a mile away is just the reason us that choose no contact do.<p> We could see it coming from 10 miles away thats the major reason no contact.
with love flowerseed

All of you speak of God so much in here, but then you post these kinds of topics. Do you think God would let a child die just because of the circumstances surrounding it's birth, who the child's mother or father is, or how anyone else feels about the entire existance of the child?
No, God wouldn't do that.<p>Some of you women get so upset/angry because the "OW" doesn't want you involved with the child. Let's face it, some of you women shouldn't come in contact with ANY child looking at some of the things you have said in your postings. Why do you put these mothers through hel* insisting that the relationship the father has with the child is contingent on the relationship YOU have with the child? Again, taking into account what some of you have said in your postings regarding your feelings toward these children, DO YOU BLAME THE MOTHERS FOR NOT WANTING YOU AROUND?! These mothers can pick up on the negative feelings coming from you toward THEIR CHILD. <p>For those of you that have children already, wouldn't you do anything necessary to keep them out of harm's way? Then, why do you expect these mothers to expose THEIR children to you, when you have been deemed as HARMFUL, possibly FATAL, to these kids. <p>As far as all of you that get upset about paying CS, GET OVER IT! Your husbands should have thought about that before he ran around having sex with this other woman. The mother has a right to get CS for the child THEY created TOGETHER. Think about it, if you and your husbands divorce, are you going to go for CS for the children that HE created with YOU? Of course you will. Why? Because your children deserve to have want they need without a huge financial struggle.<p>These scenarios are morbid, and all they are meant to do is insight evil thoughts regarding the "OC". Anyone who speaks of or thinks of hurting a child, ANY child, is in for some serious consequences later. <p>Now don't get me wrong, there are some women out there that brought their situations on themselves, but so did your husbands. True, some women do go strictly for married men. BUT, DON'T ONLY QUESTION HER INTEGRITY, HE WAS TO BLAME ALSO.
I know its hard to believe for some of you, but stop justifying what HE did UNLESS you're going to justify what SHE did! <p>I know none of you know my story, but I guess I'm just not ready to share that right now. When I do, you will understand why I feel the why I do. I said in a previous posting that I have been where you women are, and I have. So, before you try to get me outcasted listen to what I have to say with an open mind. All of you may not LIKE it, but if it doesn't apply then don't worry about it-just read it and move on or reply with your own words of wisdom.

whateverouwant,
I think you missed the point reread.<p>In my case we fit in Senario no. 2: my h choose his family over the ow and her child deal with it.<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: flowerseed ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>All of you speak of God so much in here, but then you post these kinds of topics. Do you think God would let a child die just because of the circumstances surrounding it's birth, who the child's mother or father is, or how anyone else feels about the entire existance of the child?
No, God wouldn't do that.<hr></blockquote><p>did i say that i am God like and could even possibly save ALL children? no. did i say that God expects me to save ALL children? no. did i say i wanted oc to die? no <p>Get real. I just said that I, and any other women, inherently chooses what's best for her child, and even in the most dire circumstances would choose life for her own child over the life of another's.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Some of you women get so upset/angry because the "OW" doesn't want you involved with the child. Let's face it, some of you women shouldn't come in contact with ANY child looking at some of the things you have said in your postings.<hr></blockquote><p>You couldn't possibly be referring to the many great moms here who choose a better life and happiness of a whole family for their children, rather than subject them to some very disturbed women (as proven by their behaviour).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why do you put these mothers through hel* insisting that the relationship the father has with the child is contingent on the relationship YOU have with the child? <hr></blockquote><p>obviously you too have not grasped the idea that if a man chooses to stay with his family and chooses contact with OC that the wife is going to be at visitation with her husband whether or not the poor helpless victim of a OW likes it or not... unless of course she can be proven unfit. Some OW just hate that the husband/wife is a package deal. I guess this should have been considered before making such a bad decision of sleeping with a married man. Any man worth his salt and is serious about mending and rebuilding his family wouldn't dream of keeping a seperate life.. just so the OW "feels" better about it. And why should he take time away from his family to appease the OW's demands on who can be present during visistation. Riduclous. So if OW gets a boyfriend, can the father demand that boyfriend never be around the child? what if OW chooses to marry? can he demand that the child be turned over to him so that new hubby has no contact with child?? again... riduclous.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Again, taking into account what some of you have said in your postings regarding your feelings toward these children, DO YOU BLAME THE MOTHERS FOR NOT WANTING YOU AROUND?! These mothers can pick up on the negative feelings coming from you toward THEIR CHILD.<hr></blockquote> <p>guess what... they have a choice.... don't demand cs and stay out of the MM's life... and raise the kid on your own. thus... no visitation issues. many OW haven chosen this route and are quite happy. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>For those of you that have children already, wouldn't you do anything necessary to keep them out of harm's way? Then, why do you expect these mothers to expose THEIR children to you, when you have been deemed as HARMFUL, possibly FATAL, to these kids.<hr></blockquote> <p>I am keeping my children away from a woman with no morals.... four children all by different daddies. I'm teaching them that actions have consequences. Get pregnant.. and you may be flying solo. babies don't win the man. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>As far as all of you that get upset about paying CS, GET OVER IT! Your husbands should have thought about that before he ran around having sex with this other woman. The mother has a right to get CS for the child THEY created TOGETHER. Think about it, if you and your husbands divorce, are you going to go for CS for the children that HE created with YOU? Of course you will. Why? Because your children deserve to have want they need without a huge financial struggle.<hr></blockquote><p>no one has debated whether or not child support is warranted. not in this thread anyway... we all believe that it is our legal obligation. <p>But, and i do mean but.. the law is lopsided. If a woman decides to give her child up for adoption... and the adoption is successful and legal... she has no legal obligation of financial support. Unfortunatley men don't have this legal right... yet. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>These scenarios are morbid, and all they are meant to do is insight evil thoughts regarding the "OC". Anyone who speaks of or thinks of hurting a child, ANY child, is in for some serious consequences later. <hr></blockquote><p>did anyone talk of physically hurting OC. NO. But the OW hurt that child the minute she allowed him to be brought into this world. Yes the father helped with his sperm. But she had the final say in whether or not she slept with him and concieved a child in the process. She hurts that child by allowing it to be raised in a fatherless family.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know none of you know my story, but I guess I'm just not ready to share that right now. When I do, you will understand why I feel the why I do. I said in a previous posting that I have been where you women are, and I have. So, before you try to get me outcasted listen to what I have to say with an open mind. All of you may not LIKE it, but if it doesn't apply then don't worry about it-just read it and move on or reply with your own words of wisdom. <hr></blockquote><p>i did read... these are my words of reply. i think you were off base and so i responded. respectfully of course.<p>Z.<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: zebrababy<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</p>

WHATEVERYOUWANT..........go back to gloryb!

Zebrababy, Thank you for saying what I was thinking. You are a classy lady! <p>Take care,
Why<p>[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: why ]</p>

Hi zebrababy! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you for this thread. I'm thinking about my situation and wanted to add my perspective, if you don't mind... <p>I WISH I could get my oldest son (OC) to provide his input. Then again, he would just be one OC out here with his own unique opinion...<p>Let me first say that there are many many damaged children out there in the world living without fatherly influence in their lives, whose parents were and are married, not just OCs. Deadbeat dads are not confined to just WS's.<p>So who is responsible for the damage done to those innocent kids? The mom, for simply giving birth to them? I would venture to say that there are a LOT of single moms out there who are actually married and whose husbands actually live in the home! What's the difference if you are married and your husband is a million miles away emotionally? He doesn't help around the house or help with the kids? Does that mom hurt her kids by giving them life when she knew what SHE was or is married to?<p>These problems are not just confined to adulterous situations.<p>I wish I could have my son answer whether he feels I hurt him by giving him a chance to live with me. I wonder what his answer would be... Only he could really say?<p>From MY perspective, I can tell you that ANY child whose parents are not devoted to them in every way possible gets hurt.<p>ANY child whose parents reject them for whatever reason feels hurt.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zebrababy:
<strong>Get real. I just said that I, and any other women, inherently chooses what's best for her child, and even in the most dire circumstances would choose life for her own child over the life of another's.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree, only in my case, I was an OW giving birth to an OC. I would like to think that my circumstances were dire--unwed, unplanned pregnancy by a married man with his own family to raise. I'm sorry, but I was not going to carry that baby for 9 months, and give it away to an "intact family"--even tho that would have been the moral thing to do. And further, with no guarantee that that "intact family" would remain intact... Remember, I was a silly OW, with NO MORALS at that time. I did what I thought was best for me and for my baby, and with the knowledge that I possessed at that time.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zebrababy:
<strong>guess what... they have a choice.... don't demand cs and stay out of the MM's life... and raise the kid on your own. thus... no visitation issues. many OW haven chosen this route and are quite happy. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I tried to make it on my own without bothering MM and his family for financial support. I couldn't do it. I didn't "bother" him for 5 years and we were struggling. I didn't think it was fair to "bother" him and his family, but it wasn't fair to OC, either. It was really difficult for me to file for CS because I was trying to forget that chapter of my life altogether. Couldn't do it and feel like I did all I could to help OC as his mother... I just didn't think it was fair to OC.<p>I wasn't trying to make sure OC had what MM's kids had or have either. We lived in a 1BR apartment. OC had the bedroom, I slept on a sofabed in the living room. I tried my best to do it on my own without asking for CS. I really tried. I couldn't do it. Was I hurting OC? Not on purpose, but I guess I was by being so young and so poor. Did that make me an unfit mother? I don't think so.<p>I can think of a lot of rich kids out there who are emotionally bankrupt because their rich parents didn't know how to secure them in their love.<p>I think I was a pretty okay mom, but I could have done better. Today, OC is not what *I* was at his age. I gave him early on what I didn't have in my life--a relationship with God.<p>What was my turning point? Giving birth to the OC. Did I hurt him? Maybe so. But GOD helped us both...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by zebrababy:
<strong>She hurts that child by allowing it to be raised in a fatherless family.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Okay, this is the part where I keep getting sort of stuck because there are a lot of us who were raised in fatherless situation, be it through our father's deaths, or divorce, or just a deadbeat dad, not just infidelity. All things considered, many children are hurt by MIA parents so all I'm saying is that you have to at least give OW the benefit of the doubt that she did not sit down and plan how she could purposely hurt her child.<p>Even tho OW is of low moral character, it doesn't mean that she is incapable of having the heart of a mother who wants to at least love her child.<p>A mother who wants to love a child whom she already knows will be rejected by the MM and his family simply because of the infidelity situation.<p>A mother who wants to love a child because maybe she already had an abortion?<p>A mother who wants to love a child whom she has already bonded with during her pregnancy and who cannot IMAGINE giving her baby away. Period.<p>A mother who made a terrible, terrible mistake and who seeks forgiveness, not from people, cuz you can forget that! But from her God whom she also betrayed and cheated on herself...<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

BtDt,
That was beautiful and I know so heartfelt. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] You made a WONDERFUL point about fatherless children. The quality and quantity of parenting has little to do with marital status sometimes, or even whether they live in the home. There are exceptions to every generality.<p>In light of what the crashers are telling us, BinThere, do you condemn the MM for not equally parenting your son with you? Is that a crime? <p>I repeat what zebra said: Know that the people who count don't judge you...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip: <strong>Just a reminder...this is not a debate forum to discuss what jerks our husbands are or what responsibilities and obligations they have to anyone. This forum is for Betrayed Spouses who are experiencing the confusion and pain of a troubled marriage in recovery and a place to share ideas of how to cope...not who is to blame or for OW's to come here to try to dump misplaced guilt or shame on the couple who chose to remain together and rebuild their lives....nothing else matters in the big scheme of things...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Excellent point made by catnip here!!! I hope that everyone understands this point. I'm sure the moderators hope that everyone understands this point, as well.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by whateveryouwant:
<strong>I know none of you know my story, but I guess I'm just not ready to share that right now. When I do, you will understand why I feel the why I do. </strong><hr></blockquote>
whateveryouwant, until you are ready to share your story, I think that you should refrain from your own judgmental comments. Just my personal opinion, and NOT fueled by my personal situation - there are no OC (the OW who physically attacked me and then harassed me for months after my husband moved out to be with her is much too self-centered to consider giving that much of herself to a dependent human being). You may believe you have been where these people are, and maybe you have - but that does NOT give you leave to condemn them or judge them. The discussions on all of these forums are a form of therapy and release for many of us, and having someone come in and condemn us for releasing HERE the words and thoughts that build up inside us as we deal with our daily situations is distinctly unappreciated...<p>Share with us what happened to you, and you will find that your opinions may be better respected. Withhold, and keep your opinions to yourself. Oh, and if you want to know MY story, do a search on my user id... I've been here a long time.<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: terri ]</p>

BTDT, my old friend. I think we sparred and made up once before. I was encouraged to hear from you. I knew you and a few others would take this thread to heart.<p>And from the first post on this thread.... I made the point to say that ALL mothers choose their child. Not just BS. I have no ill feeling for OW for choosing her child. It's human nature. The very point I tried to make is... that same OW cannot fault the BS for choosing her own children too. <p>One of the beautiful things about our country (for now) is the freedom of choice. BS's should respect the OW's choices and OW should respect BS's choices.<p>Now......the second senario addressed father's choices. I was merely suggesting that fathers have the same choices... only restricted by law on financial obligations. Why can't OW respect those choices too?<p>And your points on fatherless children is valid. But for every child that grows up his primary care giver has ultimate contol on how she/he/they make him/her feel about the family "type" they grow up in. <p>About my statement about OW hurting her child by growing up in a fatherless home. I guess I should have expanded on that thought. What I was feeling was that if she chooses to make it a liablility for the child it will be. She can choose to focus on the positives of her loving that child and their relationship... or she can attempt to force an unwilling father to "be involved." <p>A fatherless home can be a positive if the mother so chooses. Especially if the option of a father is "half [censored]" or detrimental.<p>Bottom line. The child's experiences and how he/she relates to their situation is in the hands of the primary care giver. OW or otherwise.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Okay, this is the part where I keep getting sort of stuck because there are a lot of us who were raised in fatherless situation, be it through our father's deaths, or divorce, or just a deadbeat dad, not just infidelity. All things considered, many children are hurt by MIA parents so all I'm saying is that you have to at least give OW the benefit of the doubt that she did not sit down and plan how she could purposely hurt her child.<hr></blockquote><p>I don't think that OW sit down and plan hurt for a child by getting pregnant. I do think that they often made decisions to have that child and don't consider what's best for it. And this comment mainly applies to those OW who get pregnant on purpose just to "get" the man. Just like many single women do with single men. Not just with MM.<p>I guess I wish that after they make those bad decisions they would educate themselves on how they can make their particular experience and choice the best for the child. And not continue to use that child as a pawn or revenge tool.<p>OW have such a great deal of power in how their children grow up thinking about where and how they came to be.<p>My hope is that my OW in particular gets this point some day.<p>Thanks again for jumping on the thread. I always look forward to your "spin" on things.<p>Z.<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: zebrababy ]</p>

Hi zebrababy,
Again thanks for provoking us all to think about this from various angles. I'm sure I didn't even begin to cover what female WS moms go through (emotionally) when faced with an OC birth decision... My perspective is just a single OW with no other children. Married OW must also deal with the emotions of her husband and children and I cannot begin to imagine that sort of agony...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jenny:
<strong>...do you condemn the MM for not equally parenting your son with you? Is that a crime?...
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>OC FORCES all WS's to consider their real priorities and try to regain some focus. (HOPEFULLY!) Unfortunately, there are some stories that involve multiple OCs... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't condemn MM for not being involved with OC in my case... How could MM be committed to me and OC when he needed so much work on improving his commitment to his own wife????? OMG! I'm like, get yourself and your family together before you try to parent MY kid! Take care of your own with all my blessings!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] You know, let's all try to get back to square one and deal with our bad behavior that first led us to this unfortunate circumstance! Figure out what went wrong and THEN move forward...<p>What makes anyone think that MM will be any better of a father to my OC than he was to his own family? In my case, I think the best thing MM could do to appease his guilt (if any), was to just pay OC and get on with his marriage. How this all has hurt his wife, I cannot address, but looking back on things through my perspective as a wife now--I KNOW I could not handle having contact with OW/OC. I don't think so at this point, anyway. <p>OTOH, if my HUSBAND was conflicted about it, and really hurting with no contact, then I suppose I should step up and be the contact person to protect my marriage from OW. I would not bow out of it if my H was hurting and insisted on contact. If I decided to be a stepmom of OC, then it would be H in court, but me right there handling visitation pick ups and drop offs. It would be MY business and I would make it MY BUSINESS because it is my HUSBAND's business! OC would be in MY care in MY home interacting with MY children?! Hmph, I would make it my job to keep OW out of my family picture forever.<p>I don't think it is a crime for MM and his wife deciding to fix what went wrong in their marriage.<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong><p>I don't think it is a crime for MM and his wife deciding to fix what went wrong in their marriage.<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thank you, BTDT...that's why we are here at Marriage Builders. Because the marriage ALWAYS xomes first before any child or OC, parent, sibling, friend, job...everything but God.<p>It confounds me how we get off the track of what this forum is all about. I realize it has almost everything to do with crashers from glory b who want to phuque with our heads and make THEIR OC suddenly OUR problem. Blaming the victim. It is ridiculous. Cracks me up.<p>And choices??!!!??? No one in my house has any choices, but the OW in NY gets to call all the shots, make all the decisions and the ONLY thing we get to do is pay the huge enormous big bucks as if she were a wife receiving alimony rather than a three weekend fling.<p>BTW...since when does it cost a woman $1300 to feed a two year old and buy an outfit or two every month? I had three kids to raise and it certainly never cost me $1300 per month to feed and clothe them...collectively! The OC in our case must weigh 300 pounds by now and wears ermine sleepers.<p>Sheesh...I guess I have issues tonight. Never mind. On a rant, got off the subject as usual...hahaha<p>Catnip -^^= (lost a whisker)<p>[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

Yeah, I hear you catnip. Say, if you guys have time to lurk over on GQII, there was a little uproar when a gloryb poster came over to "see if the BS's here are as bad as she has heard..." What is up with that? Would you consider this person to be really interested in marriage building? I doubt it, cuz there was no mention of the basic concepts or anything, the person just seemingly wanting to antagonize, poke fun, taunt with silly questions and brag about being financially independent while collecting child support and accepting thousands of dollars from a married man to finance her home(?) (My sincere apologizies if I got her story wrong.) But since when was THAT considered financially independent?????? Oh well, maybe it's just me because I thought financially independent means you don't need other people's money... <p>I found it very amusing when one of our computer savvy MBers actually went over to gloryb.com, copied the OWs post and pasted it into OW's own MB thread!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Too funny!<p>Some OW say the most inflammatory stuff here, but oftentimes, when outraged BS's (from MB) post over there, their moderator erases it because they maintain that it's THEIR forum so they don't allow crashers. They take full advantage of their right to strictly maintain and support their own points of view.<p>Evidently they must realize the "harm" crashers do on their board, so I often wonder why they can't show the same respect for marriage builders? Then again, I think it is good that MB doesn't delete anybody's posts, it gives newbies a chance to see who is really concerned about the harm infidelity causes and who is not.<p>And, changing the screenname is not a way to disguise yourself either. Crashers have been located by their server and some have even been exposed by the way they type. MBers can even tell when posters are DRUNK! GO FIGURE!<p>So MB doesn't NEED to "poof" out derrogatory posts. MBers simply leaves them exposed for all to see! I think that's cool...<p>[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</p>

BTDT,<p>Excellent comparison!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to admit that if they delete any "negative" comments to their board, they aren't being open minded. I think that I have only seen the moderators here delete a few, and that was due to the horrible things that were being said about a particular member here. I have a feeling it may happen to another in the very near future! But there have been many, especially in the past year, who have no compassion for what the people here have been put through. And, before someone decides to "flame" what I just said, this board, as has been stated many times, is a place for those in this situation to come and vent, instead of taking it out on their H/W. It is kinda like writing an "I hate you" letter, then burning it. This board is supposed to be annonymous, therefore, a place to pour out your heart and soul, and get rid of the negative feelings.<p>Sorry, I really just meant to tell BTDT that she made an excellent point.<p>Love,<p>Tigger

If you can stomach it, and ever visit gloryb.com, you will see a lot of "poof's" where the moderator has wiped out posts from (possible) MBers, mainly inflammatory BS's.<p>I'm not being judgmental. I have no room to judge anyone by any means. It's just really really sad. It's VERY sad to see someone riding a train that is about to wreck yet they refuse to acknowledge their dead end to disaster! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]