Had my appointment with him today. He was great. Wants me to fill out a love busters questionnaire from my H's point of view, as if I was him filling it out, and ask H to call to give him his perspective. HOpes to get us together on phone with him soon. I hope this works. He agrees with me-that the only way I am tolerating what H is doing to me is by walling him off from my world, so he doesn't hurt me anymore.That at this rate, at best we will be roomates in a house. I told him felt that way already, and yes, I walled myself from my H to stop hurting what his choices are doing from me. Otherwise I couldn't survive day to day. I will keep talking with him and hope H calls him.<p>I recommend him highly so far-spoken by someone who is also in mental health field. Very genuine and warm on phone. The money will be worth it if it keeps H and I together for our children.<p>By the way, I hear yet another story of couple who choose contact and get more pain in the end by unsure's post. This convinces me of no contact with my kids. Ever.<p>[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: unhappy wife ]</p>

Did Dr. Harley agree with your stance on no contact? From what I hear, he is opposed to it in most cases.<p>So glad you had a counselling session with him. Excellent news.

catnip, He didn't really say his thoughts on no contact with me. I admitted I may agree to some minimal contact, as I had mentioned to my H in NOvember, but that H had never discussed it further with me until lately when he just started seeing OC without my input or consent.<p>
Wisely, STeven sees what H is doing is failing to first help us get over A and then recovering from A, which I admitted I had had as intent for marriage counseling in beginning, while H just wanted to work toward incorporating OC in our life, and we had different MC agendas. Steve likened it to my H constantly picking at an open wound, and then wondering why I still hurt-- which my H says=he thinks I am not getting over things quick enough, and is failing to see how he is contributing to my failure.<p>
for some reason, Steve wondered if OW decided she wanted a child and used my H to get one, since she was childless. I have long thought this,a lthough H always acts as if OW didn't want child. He also thinks perhaps oW is not a risk to H , since she didn't want him enough to tell me about pregnancy while pregnant and I was clueless about A and OC until a year or more after the childs' birth.Steve asked me what I thought of not knowing till much later-- I said I was furious, that I was dealt a hand I still have no say in.<p>Steve talked a lot about H and men in general being able to compartmentalize their life, and if parts of their life don't touch other parts of their life, life can go on, wherein for most women, as for me, it doesn't work that way.What he does affects me and always will<p>Steve's thoughts is he will come up with a plan for me once he finds out if H will talk to him. If not, he will formulate a plan without geting H's input. I have yet to discuss this with H-he still acts as if I will stay with him. I don't think so unless he changes a lot.<p>Told Steve H always had no intent of staying with OW and leaving me, and wants to stay in marriage. But what I didn't have a chance to say, is that H also stays for economic reasons-- if I leave or he leaves, between my CS and OW's CS, he can't make it very easily, if at all.Since H is paying huge CS for OW, and will pay more for me.<p>He would stay regardless, I think<p>What does anyone think of all this?<p>[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: unhappy wife ]</p>

I think Harley is divinely inspired and I completely agree with his POJA and his rules of honesty, protection, et al. He is a wonderful and pragmatic counselor and is extremely thoughtful and logical in his research and conclusions about affairs and recovery solutions. You were right and wise to seek his counsel.<p>In the meantime, read everything you can get your hands on regarding his principles and try to apply them to your life, with or without your hsuband, because this is about you and your healing and survival.<p>I understand how you could wonder about your husband's motives for staying in the marrige...I suspect the same for many reasons. I make a really nice home and he loves living around all my wonderful overstuffed furniture, antiques, good books, wonderful music and art...and I am a pretty good cook, a real Suzy Homemaker who takes care of all the details efficiently and manages the money well. I go along with my husband when he goes on his car/truck runs and join him at the fairgrounds for the street rod stuff and all the things he loves to do. We go to the range and target shoot. Who wouldn't want to live like that? Plus, I am a really great looking Babe...hahaha<p>Hmmm...come to think of it, we haven't been to the range in a couple years. I suppose he is thinking that it behooves him to keep me away from firearms.<p>I am often suspicious of his motives for wanting to stay with me because soemtimes I think he would prefer to live elsewhere with someone else. This could very well be my own paranoia about this breech in our marriage, forever questioning who my husband really is...or I could be absolutely right on the money. I guess I will never know for sure now.<p>Hey, next time you talk to Harley, ask him if it is common for men to return home for ulterior motives...or if they are truly wanting their original spouse. I'd hate to be with someone for their convenience...I'd hate for someone to feel they have to "settle" for me when they really want something else. I'd hate wasting my time with someone who has secret desires to do or be with someone else or have secret longings to be Daddy to OC. <p>Maybe I'll call Harley, too.

catnip, do call Harley. It was so much better than I thought it would be. I did not tell my H I talked to him yet, but sent him an email to his work address telling him and asking him to make an appt. with Steve if he wishes, no pressure,. We shall see where it goes.<p>I can't see my H backing down from OC visits,but right now I don't have much if any love for him. He actally rebuffed me this morning for not telling him if he needed to take our daughter somewhere, and I nearly screamed at him--excuse me, but you have made plans for years with your A without informing me, and lied for years, and decided to visit oC on our family time, without informing me at all in some cases till the morning of, and you are mad at me for this little stupid thing?What are they thinking? This is what galls me. What he gets upset with me is almost the direct thing he has done to me only to the enth degree-it is so hypocritical I want to barf at what he says! And he wonders why I have had enough<p>It is clear H is going no where out of house-he is making no move to leave.<p>I am looking for houses to rent in meantime, and filing for separation, with or without STeve's consent.<p>I need to do this for me.<p>Hey catnip, I too am a hot looking babe. I am size 4/6, thin, look at least 10 years younger than I am, and keep myself up to date. <p>Call Harley and we can compare notes.That would be sort of fun?<p>[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: unhappy wife ]<p>[ May 05, 2002: Message edited by: unhappy wife ]</p>

Well, I think your H is lucky to have you, that even at the end of your rope you are doing all this work to save your marriage... I hope he sees it and appreciates it. *I* do! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Very insightful of S.Harley to point out that you two have not been exactly on the same page in your recovery efforts. Interesting spin on OW's mindset, too... But gosh, you never know for sure?? For sure we all know about the "selfish" part... IF OPs CONSIDERED the BS and the WS's children, I am convinced that there would BE NO AFFAIR in the first place!!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] And I'm absolutely referring to myself first and foremost on this point...<p>I pray that your H will find the idea of speaking to S.Harley as favorable. AND that your H will be open to the MB plan to save your relationship. That he will think of his kids with you--his wife--to whom he owes his primary loyalties. <p>Hopefully your H will see that this is his LAST CHANCE at building love bank deposits with you!!! AND ACT ACCORDINGLY!!! <<<HUGS&PRAYERS>>>

bintheredunthat, thanks for your kind words. No reply from H yet about an appointment with Steve. Maybe he is thinking about it, maybe he is thinking not.Whatever, I will continue to meet with Steve, and then go from there. <p>I agre- H 's loyalties should be with me and our joint kids, up to this point he has just assumed we would all survive this and go on. He has really failed to see the impact his lies and visits have done. <p>And I knew of our different "pages" on recovery, as STeve also agreed with. Says H isn't viewing what he does is affecting me, and causing more hurt. WE shall see if H calls him. I just don't know, but found myself more and more removed from h on weekend, and really can't even look at him. I feel better now away from him, not with him. Doesn't that say something?