</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Obratti and BTDT, I hope you take no offense. I believe that you two are an exception because of your understanding and compassion for those that have been hurt. I mean you no ill will, please know that. You are not lumped in my above thinking process </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF THESE TWO ARE SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT AS NOT BEING THIS WAY, IT WOULD STAND TO REASON YOU ARE IMPLYING THE OTHERS ARE...
OK i AM TOO BUSY FOR THIS, I HAVE HOUSE WORK, ERRANDS AND PIES TO BAKE. HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING.

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

Doesn't matter MO5, you still at one point and time, hurt her mother. She doesn't love you and probably has a very hard time forgiven you for your part, hence the coldness with your DD. To her, anything that pertains to you, she is going to see as a threat to her mother, someone who has hurt her alot. She may be his stepdaughter, but at her age, she knows exactly what happened. I am sure she never expected her stepfather to hurt her family as he did. I would probably be angry and resentful to. You should be a bit more understanding. Not everyone can accept such a situation, especially if it hurts people they love.

THEY DON'T COME HERE MAKING EXCUSES ALL DAY LONG, THEY STAND OUT TO ME BECAUSE OF THEIR COMPASSION. YOU NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND WHEN I POSTED ANYTHING. I DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT YOU. HELL I FORGOT YOU EVEN EXISTED UNTIL YOU POSTED. MY BAD.

NO ONES FAULT BUT YOUR OWN THAT YOU TEND TO TAKE THINGS ALL WRONG, TURN IT ALL AROUND AND MAKE IT ABOUT YOU. YOU HAVE A COMPLEX, NOT MY PROBLEM.

I WILL NOT POST A RESPONSE TO YOU AGAIN. I BRING INFORMATION FOR THESE LOVELY LADIES, I AM NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND ARGUE WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT I POSTED. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DO NOT RESPOND. THERE WAS NOTHING IN MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT YOU AT ALL.

I am very sorry ladies. Didn't mean to cause a stir.

Melissa

Gee

I wasnt yelling I have a screwed up computer. lol

calm down, it really isnt a big deal...

I dont care if you post to me or not, Just stating a fact... really dont be so emotional about it.

I am glad you can bring ladies some facts that might help them..
who was it charles Kuralt that had a mistress all those years ?.. she sued for property promised to her by him.. and won.. just depends on the circumstances and the judge I would guess.. just be sure you ladies who think this might benefit you to get some revenge.. if your the other woman is married.. her husband can do the same thing to yours.. so check before you make that kind of mistake...
If you can accomplish that go for it.. I know I for one hope that catnip gets rid of some of that child support.. I think she pays to much...
see we can agree on some things and not like each other.. chill

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

Mshermi,
Thanks for the prompt reply.

I guess she is off the hook, sigh.

Tina

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mshermi:
I for one do not think an ow should ever be rewarded for bad behaviour. They will never make dad stop paying support, so the absolute bare, bare minimum at most. I believe the father pays for his sins also daily. He must live with this everyday, he knows what he has done to his family, he must deal daily with the wrath of a very hurt and angry wife, and he must watch money that his family needs go to someone else because of something he participated in.

-----> Advocate for poor man's a victim syndrome? Didn't know what he was doing, was outwitted by some woman much more intelligent than he with an agenda all her own. Poor guy, got taken for a ride for years and years. Poor mm. victims they are..NOT.

If there were more severe consequences, as in court punishment for people who sleep with a married person be it man or woman, they didn't get a small fortune per month, maybe it would curtail this kind of family detructive behaviour. Who knows. Then you have some like Obratti and BTDT who I feel don't derserve such harshness, so what do you do?

---> Biased opinion based on personal feelings, don't belong in legal process.

I don't know, I just know that these situations bother me. I lurk on other boards and see the garbage that spews and just shake my head. I will never understand the thought process of it. They are angry that mm stayed with the family, they are angry he didn't leave 3 children behind for the sake of one who shouldn't be, crying that he abandoned thier baby, how could he, but yet have no qualms if he abandoned his other children of the marriage. That is OK. It is all so double standard to them, it just boggles my mind. They complain that their child deserves the same lifestyle as his other children yet how can that be when they now get $1000.00 per month or more. The children of the marriage just had their lifestyle snatched from them, and they think it is fair. I know it does not take that kind of money to raise a child. Our daughter costs no where near that per month. I see them complain that they only get $600.00 and that barely covers daycare. Well, that is his portion to pay, what about theres? What portion belongs to them? They get angry because he doesn't have to pay 100% of eveything. They want no money to come from their pocket to help support their child.

----> Not sure where you get all this biased bunk from. This board, I think not. I for one left my MM, he didn't leave me. He still contacts me relentlessly. When you say they you invalidate your argument.
I never asked for a dime. I told him, at his suggestion, that if I change my mind, I will discuss it with him.

And another thing, I have had friends on birthcontrol for years, not one time, ever has any of them became pregnant because of failure. Why is it that only they have birth control failure, or they know someone who had birth control failure? It seems to me it is just them, their friends and family. My guess is they become careless. Skip a day or two, don't tell mm of course, take an antibiotic, don't tell mm how that can affect birth control, and still be able to say they were on the pill. It is preventable if you are taking it as it should be taken. I know not one person who accidently became pregnant on the pill. Not one. I have a very dear friend who has been on it for 10 years, never a pregnancy, her and her DH are planning on a family, just not now. She takes hers everyday, same time, and look, no unplanned pregnancy.

----> I know more than one person whose bc failed. I know in my case, when I took an antibiotic and explained to om what may happen, he did not care about the risk. He wanted to ml anyway. That is my experience. I've read and spoken with women who told me the same thing about MM willing to take great risks after being informed. How many of them admit to the wife? probably very few, they are not stupid men.

I will never understand why people set out to do this kind of damage to others, it just is not right.

-----> That is because you look for motive where often, none exists in most cases. You really do not understand much based on your sweeping generalizations.

Once again, this is a PERFECT example of true hypocracy. If someone doesn't sympathize from the ws/ow camp, we are attacked in general terms. All the same sort of simple thinking.

When we do not sympathize with you people, we are triggering, rude, mismannered,etc. How narrow.

If you have a problem with what someone wrote on another board, go there, and tell them. Don't drag their dirty laundry here and upset the rest of us OW/WS who are WORKING on our marriages with your broad generalizations.

CM

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

"I know more than one person whose bc failed. I know in my case, when I took an antibiotic and explained to om what may happen, he did not care about the risk. He wanted to ml anyway. That is my experience. I've read and spoken with women who told me the same thing about MM willing to take great risks after being informed. How many of them admit to the wife? probably very few, they are not stupid men."

Why didn't YOU care about the risk? You are married too. Why didn't You care enough to prevent a pregnancy especially since you told him of the possible consequences. You had your whole outcome in the palm or your hands and yet chose to change so many lives, and not for the better. How selfish was that.

I will not respond to anymore of your posts either. All you want to do is argue too because everything becomes personal.

Tina, sorry, I wish things were better for you.

Melissa

Melissa

Ignore the belittling and combativeness of some (very few) of the minority here. I've stopped responding and I think you and everyone else should, too or it will just perpetuate itself. It is counterproductive and exhausting.

Your information is invaluable to the majority of us who are struggling to find answers...don't let anyone push you away from here. I am very glad you are here.

OK. A question for you...are there any groups or committees dedicated to CS reform? I am not speaking of men's groups or anything like that. I am looking for an organization of people who are actually in the trenches working for reform. Is there anything out there yet? I suppose like anything, these things take time to ferret out and don't become known until there is a larger population of people crying out at the injustice.

Blessings

Catnip =^^=

Miss Catnip,

I do belive there are a few, I'll look this evening. the biggest front liners for cs reform are second wives. They see the injustice of first hand. Let me look around ans see what I can find for ya.

Love,

Melissa

Sign me up if you find anything...if not, let's start our own organization. What the hell.

Did you get my joke? It struck me so funny, I'm having residule reactions. Ba-waaaah.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mshermi:
[QB]"I know more than one person whose bc failed. I know in my case, when I took an antibiotic and explained to om what may happen, he did not care about the risk. He wanted to ml anyway. That is my experience. I've read and spoken with women who told me the same thing about MM willing to take great risks after being informed. How many of them admit to the wife? probably very few, they are not stupid men."

Why didn't YOU care about the risk? You are married too. Why didn't You care enough to prevent a pregnancy especially since you told him of the possible consequences. You had your whole outcome in the palm or your hands and yet chose to change so many lives, and not for the better. How selfish was that.

---->Didn't say I didn't care. I did and put the brakes on quite a few times in our 7 years together. that is only an example not how I said it happened. My point was to bring up the fact that you are generalizing when you say the women hide the facts from the naive poor mm.

I will not respond to anymore of your posts either. All you want to do is argue too because everything becomes personal.

--->eventually, when people like you come along, generalizing as you have in your posts on this thread, lumping everyone in the ow catagory together as "they", you got it, it becomes personal. No one can ever win a debate when they toss in words like "they" did or want or wish or are mad..."they" is personal. Like if I said "they" all white people or "they, all black people, or "they" - jewish people..you get my drift I'm sure.

you see me as taking it personally, and I see you as personally attacking "us". you're right. so lets stop the blame and judgement games now, and move on.
cm

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]</small>

Melissa,

Could you find anything for Louisiana or point me in that general direction. I'm in the position where I see both sides of the CS coin...I am owed thousands of dollars from my ex-legitimate husband who he sired a special needs child with me and I'm also screwed here by the courts for Mr."T"'s illegitimate child created in a three night stand and they want $600 a month for the child and that's more than our mortgage and Mr."T"'s is supporting four children at home plus me 100%...the courts didn't recognize my son...told Mr."T" that I can get out and work...well then, if the ex-ow was on welfare, why didn't they tell her to get out and work too?

If there are organziations for FAIR CS reforms, I'm interested. I want what's fair...not exhortbiant.....

Thanks for any help and you can get my e-mail addy from Catnip if you wish.

Hugs and prayers,
Twiisty

Hey mshermi
No offense taken at anything you have posted here. It's good to see your screenname! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I don't know how to prevent anyone from filtering negativity when there was nothing personal to begin with... The fact that you didn't name other xOW on your post is probably because you couldn't think of any that stood out to you??? Sheesh, you haven't been here for quite a while! Am I right???

mo5 I respect you as a person, but as a poster, you need to get a grip, woman! Just take a minute and breathe before you read here and post and try not to take every single thread so personally. If you are logging onto MB with your heart pounding in your throat, you probably are way too emotional and need to pause and breathe or else don't even log on until you can do so calmly and objectively.

Your life is settled, right? You're not facing nearly the trauma of many who come here for help. You don't need help, per se, right? So you have something more to offer, I believe, than arguments and whining... yes, whining!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You have to be willing to humble yourself. If you keep coming across as if your life is soooo perfect and your husband the betrayed has accepted your xOM with open arms and you guys have huge blended family get togethers (OC birthday celebrations) with BS's and OP's all in the same room happily mingling it is really hard to swallow, EVEN FOR ME and I'm not a BS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So come on now, be the sensitive person you are! If I remember correctly, you are a mom of a special needs child? Did you say that? I can't remember, but doesn't your OC have severe asthma? Aren't you one of the most loving of moms who posts here? I think so?!! And not just because I are one too!!!

So stop acting like a baby! Boy, talk about whining! Listen to you! And I say that with the upmost respect and love toward you because I know you are better than this... Look for the good and ignore offenses. Good will come back to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (give and it shall be given... hostility or kindness, understanding or defensiveness)

Actually, I think you owe an apology... but that's just my opinion... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Obratti and BTDT, I hope you take no offense. I believe that you two are an exception because of your understanding and compassion for those that have been hurt. I mean you no ill will, please know that. You are not lumped in my above thinking process </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IF THESE TWO ARE SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT AS NOT BEING THIS WAY, IT WOULD STAND TO REASON YOU ARE IMPLYING THE OTHERS ARE...
OK i AM TOO BUSY FOR THIS, I HAVE HOUSE WORK, ERRANDS AND PIES TO BAKE. HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I'm talking about... Quit reading into people's words. You gotta admit, your filter is a bit off-key, meaning what is said vs. how you interpret it. Take what is written for face value and stop putting words into people's mouths through your negative interpretation. You do this quite often.

You have done it to me and others who have simply chosen to ignore you. So consider yourself spanked and then hugged! I don't mean to offend you, but come on now, if you are going to have successful "relationships" here, you need to admit when you are wrong. This was a wrong interpretation of what was said...

Also regarding your sarcasm about Happy Thanksgiving. Come on now! I could be wrong and maybe you were sincere but after what you posted just prior, it doesn't read as sincere... Because ALL of us are busy and ALL of us have pies to bake and ALL of us are raising children and ALL of us are having company over this week, and ALL of us are dealing with this OC stuff and many of us are full-time employees to boot!

So pa-leeze quit saying how "busy" you are--join the club! We are all busy, but should not be too busy to be considerate of each other. You know I believe you are so busy squinting at gnats that you miss the elephants going by!

If expecting others to be considerate of before returning the favor, then we will never get it because it works backwards. We have to give in order to receive. It's a life principle. Things just work that way. You don't get the fruit before you plant the seed and even then, you gotta water it for a long, long time...

I'm not your enemy and I do hope that you receive this encouragement in the spirit that it was given--as from a friend, fellow wife and mom of an OC...

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

ACTUALLLY I do mean for every one to have a happy thanksgiving, why wouldnt I !? Pretty hard not to, Family friends, all the goodies..

This site and these people on it, do not effect how we spend our holiday, and if it does you need to find something to do. so I repeat have a happy holiday.

as far as an apology goes, I will stick it right up there with all the ones I receive here on a regular basis.

WHINING... your right I get sick of hearing all the garbage you people give this other person, when your husband was a willing participant.. But if I was whining, I am sorry, I guess thats just one more thing we have in common, ws[if they are female] whine as much as BS.

so I dont need to be spanked or hugged but thanks, You know what I bet I am just having a crisis,,, gotta be it. consider that with all the love behind it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I was just talking about me being busy and not enough hours in my day.. I never meant the rest werent busy so again please do not read into that.. I am sure many of you are very busy, and Like me probably too busy to sit around and debate garbage,
so good night

You have to be willing to humble yourself. If you keep coming across as if your life is soooo perfect and your husband the betrayed has accepted your xOM with open arms and you guys have huge blended family get togethers (OC birthday celebrations) with BS's and OP's all in the same room happily mingling it is really hard to swallow, EVEN FOR ME and I'm not a BS!!!

what the heck, I dont care if you believe it or not, know one asked you to, I dont think any thing is that unusual about two people putting their child first, before all the petty crap.
sorry if you or any one else doesnt like it, I dont do it for you or any one else to believe, I do it for my daughter, om does it for his daughter.. I am not his enemy he and I are friends, so that is why it is so hard to belive... makes it easier to compromise I would guess.. NO one ever said it was perfect, and You have never heard that from me, but it is a hell of a lot better, than running around griping about a person you have never ever seen and more than likely wont ever see. at least it is productive. aT LEAST A CHILD IS BEING LOVED AND CARED FOR AND KNOWS HER PARENTS LOVE HER.. SHE DOESNT SEE GARBAGE WHEN SHE GOES FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE. What amazes me is that none of you seem tot hink it is possible and it should be this way if you are having to share a child wouldnt it be better to do so with out being ugly.

I never said husband accepted with open arms, I said they are polite to each other thats all.. what the heck is so hard to believe about that. why would people at a childs birthday party do any thing but be polite and celebrate the child, after all it is her day not ours, I owuld be ashamed if I oculd not manage that for a couple of hours for my daughter.. what would I be teaching her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>ACTUALLLY I do mean for every one to have a happy thanksgiving, why wouldnt I !? Pretty hard not to, Family friends, all the goodies..

This site and these people on it, do not effect how we spend our holiday, and if it does you need to find something to do. so I repeat have a happy holiday.

as far as an apology goes, I will stick it right up there with all the ones I receive here on a regular basis.

WHINING... your right I get sick of hearing all the garbage you people give this other person, when your husband was a willing participant.. But if I was whining, I am sorry, I guess thats just one more thing we have in common, ws[if they are female] whine as much as BS.

so I dont need to be spanked or hugged but thanks, You know what I bet I am just having a crisis,,, gotta be it. consider that with all the love behind it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I was just talking about me being busy and not enough hours in my day.. I never meant the rest werent busy so again please do not read into that.. I am sure many of you are very busy, and Like me probably too busy to sit around and debate garbage,
so good night</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mo5,

I don't read sarcasim in anything you wrote. I hear your about as tired of it all as I am but that is it. I guess it is all in the ears of the beholder like they've been saying to us forever now. And busy...go on and vent about being busy and tired all you want. 5 kids, several homes to keep up, helping in your community like you do, sheez, that is a big platter you have. A Happy Thanksgiving to you and your precious family.

love ya-cm

My apologies to mshermi and catnip for hijacking your thread to say what I felt compelled to say. I hope it wasn't a complete waste of time. I stand by what I said. It IS good to see your screenname posting again, mshermi. I'll just keep my mouth shut and ignore what doesn't apply to me... wise words indeed!

BTDT,

Absolutely no apologies are necessary from you. I happen to think you are one very wise woman and love to read all your posts. All of them have such insight. You may post on my thread anytime. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope you and yours have a wonderful Holiday.

Melissa