Hey there Miss Cat's Meow (Catnip).............

Marriage Builders

A little while back there was a lady here who was dealing with an ow-oc from Ill. Her DD was having dental difficulties. Do you remember who that was?

I found some interesting things out about Ill. I wanted to pass along to her. In Ill. you can sue ow for:

1. Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress

2. Alienation of Affection

And my personal favorite

3. Criminal Conversion-all you have to do is prove the ow had sex with your DH (ie: oc)

So, how have you been doing? How are your personal things coming along? I hope everything turns around for you guys. And buy the way, you don't need to change a thing about you or how you present the facts to people. I think you are wonderful with words!

I am so busy nowadays, my little one just turned a year old on the 2nd.

Would you like to see my family? Not sure if I posted my picture album to you before, but if not, take a peak-

picturetrail.com/melissahorrall

Melissa

That was me!!! I come and read a little every couple of weeks. I have been so busy with my second child that I have basically fallen off the face of the earth.

But once again the ugly head of this mess is rearing its head. We are looking at maybe having to move again because of this. The ow's money is going up again in the spring, and we won't be able to afford it. So now my h is interviewing for another job. I am, sick of thinking how much it pains me to think that after moving two years ago to pay for this I might have to move again because of it.

I would be interested to hear what you found out. Although I don't know what it will get me considering it was a one night stand. But would love to hear about. Thanks for remembering me!!!

babstr

Mshermi! I saw the album and I gotta tell you I love that "bad hair Day" pic. That was priceless. What a doll...she sure is a combo of you and your husband but I think Jenna looks more like Trent if I was pressed. Are you a blended family like we are...Bipolar and his two and my one???

In your wedding photo, is the woman in the green dress your twin? I KNOW she must be a sister, right? I liked tht one picture of you titled "Me" in black with the black background...you remind me of my beautiful step daughter in that photo.

You have such a nice family, mshermi. I love happy endings...and beginnings.

The woman in question is "Babstr" and she lurks occasionally. I believe she has recently had her second baby, but she hasn't been around to let us in on the happy news/blessed event yet. She's been on my mind a lot lately and have wondered what is going on with her...this is information she would certainly welcome. It is information I would welcome....anything like that in MN??? NY???

Things are just OK. I am four years into all this and this year I am having a tougher time that ever before and I am not sure why unless it is all the outside stuff dragging me down and making me snarky. I think I am just worn down from all the negative stuff. A kind of accumulative effect.

Monday begins my week from hell. Well, there were a few weeks before that that were extremely painful, but this upcoming week is the grand-daddy of em all and I am already feeling pretty bad, anticipating Monday. It's stupid, I know...Monday, Monday...I keep wondering if I should allow myself to go through this one more time and purge myself of it once and for all (if I can), or if this is something I will be sentenced to (annually) all my life, or if I am just a masochist and I just love feeling really bad.

Now the GOOD news...I have an "almost" attorney/law student preparing Bipolar for his court appearance on Dec 9 to modify the CS and hopefully, the staggering arrears...I would love to tell you who our counsel is but I cannot until I have permission. I am very excited about this and have some guarded optimism that he will get some relief...we really cannot go on like this much longer and something's gotta give.

You sound good, Mshermi...and busy. You have your hands full with the baby and your other two kids and your husband, but could you tell me if you have any similar information on MN or NY?

I hope Babstr lurks soon and sees this or perhaps you could post a personal thread to her...this is information I know she will want.

Thanks, Mshermi for looking out for us and I truly appreciate your interest. And thanks for sharing those wonderful pictures of your pretty baby and family.

Love

Catnip=^^=

Babstr, Babstr, Babstr!!!! You had your baby! What did you have? Pink or blue?

How are you feeling (besides pissed...me, too)? Hope you are doing well...so is your daughter crazy about the new baby? How about your hsuband? How is he doing?

I know what you mean about the one night stand and then forced to pay outrageous support for a kid that never should have been and especially from a one night stand or a short fling...I mean, these courts award and reward these women with amounts similar to alimony to a wife or CS to a woman of a legitimate marriage of several years. I still say it should be a sliding scale according to circumstances instead of a one size fits all. Case by case basis.

And those who would complain "But the courts would be so backlogged because of the multitude of illegitimate children to be processed"...I say to them, "What does this tell you about our society..." I don't care how backlogged...process each one as it comes up without all these stupid mindless delays. Justice is supposed to be "swift".

Tell us all about Baby, Babstr. I am so glad you lurked tonight.

Love

Catnip =^^=

Good Lord Catnip you made me tear up with all those wonderful things you said.

Don't worry about having to say Jenna looks like her Daddy, I hear it all day long. I don't mind, cause daddy is a hunk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We are a blended family. We have yours, mine, and an ours. We just had some new portraits done, I'll post them as sson as we get them. They turned out so good.

The young lady in the green dress is my 19 year old daughter. Loooong story.

Unfortunatly, both your states have abolished these laws. Bites.

I can somewhat understand about the negative stuff, mine is not as negative as yours, I am just dealing with an exwife who doesn't want Trent to have any time with my stepdaughter. We are taking her to court. Did you see the plumb of smoke from her ears Thursday?

I hope everything works out for you and Bipolar in court on all fronts! You two deserve it.

I still search this internet for answers to everything I want to know, I wish I could find more. Damn internet is just not big enough for me, I WANT MORE INFO!!!!!! Oh well, I'll keep looking and you guys will be the first to know when I find something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Catnip, thank you for the wonderful words, you are a classy lady.

Love,

Melissa

Hi Babstr,

CONGRATUALTIONS on that new baby!!

The info is in my 1st post. You can sue the ow. You have the grounds to sue her, you have the proof (the oc). You can sue her for criminal conversion, all you have to do is prove she had sex with your dh. You can sue her for Alienation of Affection and the Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. I am still trying to find out the statute of limitations on this, having trouble with that one. Call youself a lawyer in Ill. and get something going, request a jury trial. DO NOT let a lawyer tell you otherwise. This is law in Ill. You break it, the inured spouse can sue.

Maybe this will make ow back the hell off and you guys can settle down with your children instead of having to move all the time. You know that is just terrible, that our family court system has pushed your family into this situation. I would be having news conferences on the courthouse steps weekly and blasting my story everywhere. Stepmothers everywhere would rally to support you.

Take Care,

Melissa

Catnip,

Hi! I posted about one week after I had the baby, but you might have missed it. In fact happy girl and I had our daughters within a week of each other. She was born in July. She has been sick with severe reflux up until the last three weeks. I had to give her meds six times a day to keep her from throwing up. She is small, but doing 200% better. I am panic stricken right now with the prospect of having to move again because my H couldn't keep it in his pants for twenty minutes. It really makes me sick. And I am afraid that I won't be able to handle the burden of ripping up my new friendships and taking my daughter away from her friends and school because of this once again.

If we didn't pay CS, we wouldn't even consider moving. I mean granted it would be nice to not be breaking even but I want my sanity. And to move to an entire new city where I know no one and do that to my kids based only on that woman getting more money, I don't think I can do it. So once again I am in the evil cross fire of this disgusting siutation.

One, to move so that we can cover the child support and screw up what happy life myself and my children have.

Or Two, not move and risk not being able to pay our bills come this spring. I literally do not know what to do, I am lost in this miserable position. Both sides are equal in their own right. But the bottom line will always be that I have to consider making my family unhappy to support her. I can feel a nervous breakdown coming on.

Melissa,

I tried and tried to find the information which stated I just had to prove that they had sex to have a case. But I couldn't find it. Do you have the site that specifically states that law?? I could have hope that the ow wouldn't ask for money. Except that the state child support department, sends out the paperwork to prompt the investigation into more money. All she has to do is sign it, and it is pretty mandatory for it to happen every three years. This would put her at almost $1000 a month, ouch.

babstr.

[ November 23, 2002, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: babstr ]

Catnip,
I don't know who the heck you have helping Bipolar prepare for his case, but I'll bet she is a really wonderful person. Whoops. Did I say "she"? How did I know that??? Heh, heh.
-cd

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cdcollins:
Catnip,
I don't know who the heck you have helping Bipolar prepare for his case, but I'll bet she is a really wonderful person. Whoops. Did I say "she"? How did I know that??? Heh, heh.
-cd<hr /></blockquote>Outstanding ...I apparantly have permission to crow my good fortune...the cat is out of the bag....my attorney in our CS matter is (drum roll) cdcollins!!!! Yaaayyyy!

I'm am so excited and grateful..

Babstr! Can you post some pictures of your baby and your older daughter for us and give us the link? I for one would love to see them.

I have cdcollins and you have Mshermi who is giving you some excellent, excellent possiblities for retribution....please let us know as it happens and I will do the same.

Even though it is the "eve" of my worst week ever, I am feeling particularaly joyful. Bipolar is wonderful, I am off my nicotene hum that I have been addicted to for 10 years...TEN YEARS...now that is a monkey on a back, my oldest son is getting through his crisis and I am eagerly anticipating a balance of justice on the 9th of December, with guarded optimism.

cedcollins is an amazing woman, my friends, and I am very lucky to have her working diligently on my (our) behalf. I don't know where she gets time to squeeze me into her busy schedule. Sometimes she rides it hard for THREE hours and still manages to get it all done.

Hahaha

Love

Catnip =^^=

Melissa,
I was just wondering how you find out your information? I wonder in there anything in WI.

Babstar,
Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Catnip,
Hoping everything turns out for on Dec. 9.

Dawn

Melissa I adored your family pictures.

I want to say you astound me with your occassional popping in to help us!

Keep it up, won't you?

Babstr my old friend, it's nice to hear from you. I pray the courts will be sensible.

Catnip ole girl (snarly, wonderful, to the point, glad you're here to help defend BS against these "learning" ow/ w/oc who continue to post things that to read, are like fingernails on a chalkboard!) best of luck on your approaching court date, with cd collins there, and God, a change should take place soon!

You girls give me hope that laws concerning these oc will allow only an amount of cs to sustain oc, then the Mom can get up and go back to work, like we do to help support their oc! Just because our H's had the misfortune to forget that condom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

At least it's only 18 years. Hell I've been married longer than that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> 11 years longer...now it doesn't seem so bad....17 more years... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and we'll be through!

Bless you guys.
Love
Debi

Sorry it took me so long to get back here.

Thank you ladies for the wonderful words regarding my family. They are precious. I do have a dark haired, blue eyed, into everything, nonstop baby talker for rent-real cheap! Only a year old. Man she is wearing me out.

Babstr,
I got the info from a fathers rights group. You should visit: deltabravo.net
childrensjustice.org

These guys are VERY heavy handed, they believe absolutely that every kid should be with dad, not sure what they would think of this kind of situation. I don't want you to be hurt by there sometimes not so kind words. Just be careful,

Also, secondwivesclub.com has some good stuff. Those ladies know just about everything, they are from all over and pretty much know about everything in every state. There is a $15.00 fee every 3 months be in this club, but well worth the money if fishing for info. I love this place, helps me tons with my DH exwife.

Criminal conversion is a civil matter, you have to file a civil suit against her and ask for a monetary award. She wouldn't go to jail, but she could end up owing YOU money for damages.

Also, Illinois CS guidelines are set up like GA. Just recently GA. Supreme Court ruled thiers unconstitutional. On the website above (childrensjustice.org) they have a copy of the argument that was used in GA. If you want to go big, you can use that argument in Ill. and sue the state and say that they are descriminating against your children by not providing equal protection. That is unconstitutional and that is where people are beating this stupid system. Got to get in the guts of it.

Now, you need to somehow get an attorney to help you in filing some papers and start suing. You have a few options and grounds on which to do it. I just am not a lawyer and can't help there (even though my DH says I missed my true calling-detective/attorney/counselor)

Things like the injustice that I see on this board just get in my crawl and stay there. Thats why I am always looking for info and anything I find of interest I bring here.

And I plan on sticking around for quit awhile, I'm not going anywhere, Gemini1.

Why can't everyone who has an oc be as classy as Obratti? Damn this world be such a better place.

Oh Dawn, Unfortunately Wi. abolished those laws. Most states have, and 9 states still have them on the books.

Peace,

Melissa

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[ November 25, 2002, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: mshermi ]

I hope you stay Melissa!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Why can't everyone who has an oc be as classy as Obratti? Damn this world be such a better place<hr /></blockquote>Needed repeating but must also add BTDT, she's a cool girl with her head on straight and gives great answers to a lot of us too.

love
Debi

Your right, I knew there was another one here, that I respected, I just forgot who.

I just hope someone can get some usefulness out of the info I bring here. I get up on the internet each night after I get everyone to bed and just look and look. Somewhere out there is a solution to all these problems, I just need to find it. I do know that the laws need to catch up to the here and now and start addressing this issue and evetrything that comes with it properly. I for one do not think an ow should ever be rewarded for bad behaviour. They will never make dad stop paying support, so the absolute bare, bare minimum at most. I believe the father pays for his sins also daily. He must live with this everyday, he knows what he has done to his family, he must deal daily with the wrath of a very hurt and angry wife, and he must watch money that his family needs go to someone else because of something he participated in.

If there were more severe consequences, as in court punishment for people who sleep with a married person be it man or woman, they didn't get a small fortune per month, maybe it would curtail this kind of family detructive behaviour. Who knows. Then you have some like Obratti and BTDT who I feel don't derserve such harshness, so what do you do?

I don't know, I just know that these situations bother me. I lurk on other boards and see the garbage that spews and just shake my head. I will never understand the thought process of it. They are angry that mm stayed with the family, they are angry he didn't leave 3 children behind for the sake of one who shouldn't be, crying that he abandoned thier baby, how could he, but yet have no qualms if he abandoned his other children of the marriage. That is OK. It is all so double standard to them, it just boggles my mind. They complain that their child deserves the same lifestyle as his other children yet how can that be when they now get $1000.00 per month or more. The children of the marriage just had their lifestyle snatched from them, and they think it is fair. I know it does not take that kind of money to raise a child. Our daughter costs no where near that per month. I see them complain that they only get $600.00 and that barely covers daycare. Well, that is his portion to pay, what about theres? What portion belongs to them? They get angry because he doesn't have to pay 100% of eveything. They want no money to come from their pocket to help support their child.

And another thing, I have had friends on birthcontrol for years, not one time, ever has any of them became pregnant because of failure. Why is it that only they have birth control failure, or they know someone who had birth control failure? It seems to me it is just them, their friends and family. My guess is they become careless. Skip a day or two, don't tell mm of course, take an antibiotic, don't tell mm how that can affect birth control, and still be able to say they were on the pill. It is preventable if you are taking it as it should be taken. I know not one person who accidently became pregnant on the pill. Not one. I have a very dear friend who has been on it for 10 years, never a pregnancy, her and her DH are planning on a family, just not now. She takes hers everyday, same time, and look, no unplanned pregnancy.

I will never understand why people set out to do this kind of damage to others, it just is not right.

Here I have been up since 5:00 am thinking about you all and wondering where to look next, went on a tangent LOL.

Obratti and BTDT, I hope you take no offense. I believe that you two are an exception because of your understanding and compassion for those that have been hurt. I mean you no ill will, please know that. You are not lumped in my above thinking process. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Melissa

Mshermi,

If insomnia strikes again tonight, try looking up Iowa and see what you can dig up.

I have not posted here lately but have been reading faithfully.

I see the end very near for my M.

H's A lasted approx. 7 or more years, and produced 2OC. We have been separated now for almost 3 months. His choice. I have been trying to keep our family together, and reconcile the marriage,even accepted the OC, and allowed visits, but with OW and OC in such close contact it is nearly impossible. OW has stated that since the past year of working on our marriage hasn't worked, then her children deserve the chance for a full time father.

You have your work cut out for you.

Tina
Me,BS 49, WS 47 OW 34
M 27yrs. 2C 20&23
2OC 1 & 4

They are angry that mm stayed with the family, they are angry he didn't leave 3 children behind for the sake of one who shouldn't be, crying that he abandoned thier baby, how could he, but yet have no qualms if he abandoned his other children of the marriage. That is OK. It is all so double standard to them, it just boggles my mind. They complain that their child deserves the same lifestyle as his other children yet how can that be when they now get $1000.00 per month or more. The children of the marriage just had their lifestyle snatched from them, and they think it is fair. I know it does not take that kind of money to raise a child. Our daughter costs no where near that per month. I see them complain that they only get $600.00 and that barely covers daycare. Well, that is his portion to pay, what about theres? What portion belongs to them? They get angry because he doesn't have to pay 100% of eveything. They want no money to come from their pocket to help support their child. I am not sure which ws's on here you are speaking of, but if it includes me, you couldnt be more wrong.

I am not angry MM stayed with his wife, not at all, I know why he did, I didnt ask him to leave because I was pregnant, although he asked me to leave my husband. I stayed, didnt want to divorce.
I never asked for a dime, and dont to this day, he did come up with a child support amount, but he and his wife decided how much and asked if that was ok, I said what ever you like, and that was it. how ever they did not start paying that till she was 14 months old.
I also told him if he walked away, he was free to do so, did not chase, call or bother him, and certainly did not call or bother his wife.

My om has children, but his children are married and live far from here, so I did not expect him to hurt or break up his family, their were no small children. WE added a child to our family,so now we had three children of our marriage, one we adopted and now we had 5 my child from an affair. My husband and I paid all medical bills, we pay the insurance. We bought all things we needed for the baby, and even when om decided he wanted to be involved, I sent things I knew they would need and did not have so they werent having to buy things at their expense when I had enough to share.

so Not all x ow are the same, and sure if it was legal here I guess om's wife could sue, but then my husband could sure her husband and we qwould have a mess that didnt help any one.

You cant make general statements about ow. xow, ws's, they are not all the same and NO it isnt fair to claim they are.

This statement alone says so much .. This is so untrue and can not be said as a general statement,. I would guess most of these women are working and caring for their child. They do not expect any man to pay 100 percent of the childs care,and wellbeing. I would guess they just would like some help from the father.. that is fair to do, although some of these amounts are pretty crazy, if someone is paying that, it is the court system and judge you need to be complaining about, not this woman who is caring for her child.
For those of you who are mothers, you know taking care of a child is so much more than just money. I know your angry and I am sure I would be as well, but you cant assume all these women are just stealing your money and do nothing for that child.

I dont pay day care I have help when I need it, but I know it is expensive, I also know clothes and shoes and diapers cost alot as well. I would guess there are some people with children who get more than they need for the well being of that child, but there are so many more, who have no help.
we have got to start seeing that not every one of these situations are the same.
You cant blame all women who have a child by someone else and assume they and they alone caused all this by them selves, and that they and they alone are out to destroy a family.
It just isnt so.
Just as my husbands goal for cheating was not to destroy his family, but he came pretty darn close. My goal was not to destroy my family, but I sure came close as well. and did some damage that hast o be prepared.. I can no longer look at my husband and have anger over what he has done all these years, I dont always understand why , but He made bad choices,

I am gratefull he is making good choices now and we are healing.

mo5

"I am not sure which ws's on here you are speaking of, but if it includes me, you couldnt be more wrong."

I didn't say that about anybody on this board, I said I lurked on other boards (one in particular), and what I typed is the gist of their complaining.

Your situation may be working out for you and mm but he still has a very angry and hurt daughter whom you don't seem to have much compassion for. Of course she is going to be angry,hurt and resentful. Not everyone in your personal situation is going to be accepting of it.

I wasn't refering to you personally at all in my post, not sure why you took it so personal. If the shoe doesn't fit you, then don't worry about. But from where I lurk, they are all nasty and bitter. One chased mm down at work with the child at 3 weeks, begging him to look at him. This man chose his family and she is still livid, she can't see straight. Now all she wants is money, money, money. Talking about asking for $400,00.00 to $500,000.00 settlements, future college expenses, etc., etc. Where in that is her financial contribution? She is not the only woman who has ever given birth, she is not special. When it becomes clear that he is staying with his family, it all becomes about getting as much money as they can, another way of hurting the innocent people in these messes simply because they found out the hard way they weren't all that great, at least not great enough to actually leave for.

MO5 your situation works for you and that is great, best to you, but don't pick apart my posts to certain people here and make it personal and get defensive. There are truly some really rotten apples out there. I didn't say anything about any ow on THIS board that was ugly, I think I did the opposite.

Tina- I'll look it up and see what I can find for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Melissa

wrong again, he doesnt have a daughter who is angry and hurt, he has a step daughter who like to stir trouble. she is 40 I say she should move on and get over it, if her mother can she can, and before you think he raised this step daughter... wrong again, she was on her first marriage when he met her.. he doesnt feel she is his daughter

Sorry Tina, Iowa abolished the law. I guess I just don't understand how the ow in your case feels that you and your dh have tried, hasn't she been in the picture all along? How do you try to repair and restore when she is still in bed with you two? What makes her think like that?

Here you go ladies:

Theodore P. Funderman v. Gordon Mickelson, 304 N.W.2d 790 (Sup.Ct.Iowa 1981)

CASE: Man sue's ex-wife's lover for alienation of his wife's affection.

FACTS: A man sues his wife's lover for alienation of affection.

HOLDING: Alienation of affection is abolished as a cause of action in Iowa.

RATIONALE:

* Suits for alienation of affection are useless as a means of preserving a family and demean the parties and the courts.
* Juries cannot dispassionately wade through the evidence to determine whether the marriage breakdown or the misconduct came first.
* The theory of alienation of affection is rooted in the idea of wives as property.
* The affections of people who are devoted and faithful are not susceptible to larceny, no matter how cunning or stealthful.
* A married person who has become inclined to philander is not likely to be dissuaded by the threat of an alienation suit, nor is the marriage likely to be saved out of fear of such a suit.
* There is an unmistakable trend away from allowing alienation suits.
* It is the duty of the court to abandon antiquated doctrines and concepts, not the legislature.
* Abolishing the right of recovery under alienation of affection is not inconsistent with the affirmation of the right to recover for loss of consortium; the right to recover for loss of consortium is a factor in assessing damages when underlying liability has been established in a personal suit, while renunciation of the right to recover for alienation proceeds from the belief there is not basis for the underlying claim.

DISSENT: Juries are as capable of deciding alientation cases as any other type of case entrusted to them.

INTERESTING TO NOTE: According to the July 1999 issue of Trial magazine, 39 states have abolished alienation of affection as a cause of action, five judicially, including Washington in Wyman v. Wallace, 94 Wash.2d 99, 615 P.2d 452 (1980), and that alientation of affection remains a legitimate cause of action in nine states (South Dakota, Illinois, Hawaii, Missouri, Mississippi, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina and Utah). Ohio has statutorily denied money damages for the cause of action, Louisiana has never accepted alienation of affections as a cause of action and Alaska does not have a statute or case law addressing the cause of action. It cited Veeder v. Kennedy, 589 N.W.2d 610, in which the Supreme Court of South Dakota upheld a $265,000 award to a husband against his wife's lover (including $200,000 in punitive damages).

THE SKINNY:

States (plus D.C.) which have statutorially abolished alienation of affection: (on thier own)

1. Alamaba
2. Arizona
3. Arkansas
4. California
5. Colorado
6. Connecticut
7. Delaware
8. District of Columbia
9. Florida
10. Georgia
11. Indiana
12. Kansas
13. Maine
14. Maryland
15. Massachusetts
16. Michigan
17. Minnesota
18. Montana
19. Nebraska
20. Nevada
21. New Jersey
22. New York
23. North Dakota
24. Oklahoma
25. Oregon
26. Pennsylvania
27. Rhode Island
28. Tennessee
29. Texas
30. Vermont
31. Virginia
32. West Virginia
33. Wisconsin
34. Wyoming

States which have judicially abolished alienation of affection: (court ordered)

1. Idaho (1986)
2. Iowa (1981)
3. Kentucky (1992)
4. South Carolina (1992)
5. Washington (1980)

States in which alienation of affection is a viable cause of action:

1. Hawaii
2. Illinois
3. Mississippi
4. Missouri
5. New Hampshire
6. New Mexico
7. North Carolina
8. South Dakota
9. Utah

Ohio does not permit monetary recovery for alientation of affection (by statute), Louisiana never recognized it as a cause of action and Alaska does not have case law or statutes which clearly address the issue.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Obratti and BTDT, I hope you take no offense. I believe that you two are an exception because of your understanding and compassion for those that have been hurt. I mean you no ill will, please know that. You are not lumped in my above thinking process <hr /></blockquote>IF THESE TWO ARE SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT AS NOT BEING THIS WAY, IT WOULD STAND TO REASON YOU ARE IMPLYING THE OTHERS ARE...
OK i AM TOO BUSY FOR THIS, I HAVE HOUSE WORK, ERRANDS AND PIES TO BAKE. HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING.

[ November 26, 2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]

Doesn't matter MO5, you still at one point and time, hurt her mother. She doesn't love you and probably has a very hard time forgiven you for your part, hence the coldness with your DD. To her, anything that pertains to you, she is going to see as a threat to her mother, someone who has hurt her alot. She may be his stepdaughter, but at her age, she knows exactly what happened. I am sure she never expected her stepfather to hurt her family as he did. I would probably be angry and resentful to. You should be a bit more understanding. Not everyone can accept such a situation, especially if it hurts people they love.

THEY DON'T COME HERE MAKING EXCUSES ALL DAY LONG, THEY STAND OUT TO ME BECAUSE OF THEIR COMPASSION. YOU NEVER EVEN CROSSED MY MIND WHEN I POSTED ANYTHING. I DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT YOU. HELL I FORGOT YOU EVEN EXISTED UNTIL YOU POSTED. MY BAD.

NO ONES FAULT BUT YOUR OWN THAT YOU TEND TO TAKE THINGS ALL WRONG, TURN IT ALL AROUND AND MAKE IT ABOUT YOU. YOU HAVE A COMPLEX, NOT MY PROBLEM.

I WILL NOT POST A RESPONSE TO YOU AGAIN. I BRING INFORMATION FOR THESE LOVELY LADIES, I AM NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND ARGUE WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT I POSTED. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DO NOT RESPOND. THERE WAS NOTHING IN MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT YOU AT ALL.

I am very sorry ladies. Didn't mean to cause a stir.

Melissa

Gee

I wasnt yelling I have a screwed up computer. lol

calm down, it really isnt a big deal...

I dont care if you post to me or not, Just stating a fact... really dont be so emotional about it.

I am glad you can bring ladies some facts that might help them..
who was it charles Kuralt that had a mistress all those years ?.. she sued for property promised to her by him.. and won.. just depends on the circumstances and the judge I would guess.. just be sure you ladies who think this might benefit you to get some revenge.. if your the other woman is married.. her husband can do the same thing to yours.. so check before you make that kind of mistake...
If you can accomplish that go for it.. I know I for one hope that catnip gets rid of some of that child support.. I think she pays to much...
see we can agree on some things and not like each other.. chill

[ November 26, 2002, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]

Mshermi,
Thanks for the prompt reply.

I guess she is off the hook, sigh.

Tina

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mshermi:
I for one do not think an ow should ever be rewarded for bad behaviour. They will never make dad stop paying support, so the absolute bare, bare minimum at most. I believe the father pays for his sins also daily. He must live with this everyday, he knows what he has done to his family, he must deal daily with the wrath of a very hurt and angry wife, and he must watch money that his family needs go to someone else because of something he participated in.

-----> Advocate for poor man's a victim syndrome? Didn't know what he was doing, was outwitted by some woman much more intelligent than he with an agenda all her own. Poor guy, got taken for a ride for years and years. Poor mm. victims they are..NOT.

If there were more severe consequences, as in court punishment for people who sleep with a married person be it man or woman, they didn't get a small fortune per month, maybe it would curtail this kind of family detructive behaviour. Who knows. Then you have some like Obratti and BTDT who I feel don't derserve such harshness, so what do you do?

---> Biased opinion based on personal feelings, don't belong in legal process.

I don't know, I just know that these situations bother me. I lurk on other boards and see the garbage that spews and just shake my head. I will never understand the thought process of it. They are angry that mm stayed with the family, they are angry he didn't leave 3 children behind for the sake of one who shouldn't be, crying that he abandoned thier baby, how could he, but yet have no qualms if he abandoned his other children of the marriage. That is OK. It is all so double standard to them, it just boggles my mind. They complain that their child deserves the same lifestyle as his other children yet how can that be when they now get $1000.00 per month or more. The children of the marriage just had their lifestyle snatched from them, and they think it is fair. I know it does not take that kind of money to raise a child. Our daughter costs no where near that per month. I see them complain that they only get $600.00 and that barely covers daycare. Well, that is his portion to pay, what about theres? What portion belongs to them? They get angry because he doesn't have to pay 100% of eveything. They want no money to come from their pocket to help support their child.

----> Not sure where you get all this biased bunk from. This board, I think not. I for one left my MM, he didn't leave me. He still contacts me relentlessly. When you say they you invalidate your argument.
I never asked for a dime. I told him, at his suggestion, that if I change my mind, I will discuss it with him.

And another thing, I have had friends on birthcontrol for years, not one time, ever has any of them became pregnant because of failure. Why is it that only they have birth control failure, or they know someone who had birth control failure? It seems to me it is just them, their friends and family. My guess is they become careless. Skip a day or two, don't tell mm of course, take an antibiotic, don't tell mm how that can affect birth control, and still be able to say they were on the pill. It is preventable if you are taking it as it should be taken. I know not one person who accidently became pregnant on the pill. Not one. I have a very dear friend who has been on it for 10 years, never a pregnancy, her and her DH are planning on a family, just not now. She takes hers everyday, same time, and look, no unplanned pregnancy.

----> I know more than one person whose bc failed. I know in my case, when I took an antibiotic and explained to om what may happen, he did not care about the risk. He wanted to ml anyway. That is my experience. I've read and spoken with women who told me the same thing about MM willing to take great risks after being informed. How many of them admit to the wife? probably very few, they are not stupid men.

I will never understand why people set out to do this kind of damage to others, it just is not right.

-----> That is because you look for motive where often, none exists in most cases. You really do not understand much based on your sweeping generalizations.

Once again, this is a PERFECT example of true hypocracy. If someone doesn't sympathize from the ws/ow camp, we are attacked in general terms. All the same sort of simple thinking.

When we do not sympathize with you people, we are triggering, rude, mismannered,etc. How narrow.

If you have a problem with what someone wrote on another board, go there, and tell them. Don't drag their dirty laundry here and upset the rest of us OW/WS who are WORKING on our marriages with your broad generalizations.

CM

[ November 26, 2002, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]

"I know more than one person whose bc failed. I know in my case, when I took an antibiotic and explained to om what may happen, he did not care about the risk. He wanted to ml anyway. That is my experience. I've read and spoken with women who told me the same thing about MM willing to take great risks after being informed. How many of them admit to the wife? probably very few, they are not stupid men."

Why didn't YOU care about the risk? You are married too. Why didn't You care enough to prevent a pregnancy especially since you told him of the possible consequences. You had your whole outcome in the palm or your hands and yet chose to change so many lives, and not for the better. How selfish was that.

I will not respond to anymore of your posts either. All you want to do is argue too because everything becomes personal.

Tina, sorry, I wish things were better for you.

Melissa

Melissa

Ignore the belittling and combativeness of some (very few) of the minority here. I've stopped responding and I think you and everyone else should, too or it will just perpetuate itself. It is counterproductive and exhausting.

Your information is invaluable to the majority of us who are struggling to find answers...don't let anyone push you away from here. I am very glad you are here.

OK. A question for you...are there any groups or committees dedicated to CS reform? I am not speaking of men's groups or anything like that. I am looking for an organization of people who are actually in the trenches working for reform. Is there anything out there yet? I suppose like anything, these things take time to ferret out and don't become known until there is a larger population of people crying out at the injustice.

Blessings

Catnip =^^=

Miss Catnip,

I do belive there are a few, I'll look this evening. the biggest front liners for cs reform are second wives. They see the injustice of first hand. Let me look around ans see what I can find for ya.

Love,

Melissa

Sign me up if you find anything...if not, let's start our own organization. What the hell.

Did you get my joke? It struck me so funny, I'm having residule reactions. Ba-waaaah.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mshermi:
[QB]"I know more than one person whose bc failed. I know in my case, when I took an antibiotic and explained to om what may happen, he did not care about the risk. He wanted to ml anyway. That is my experience. I've read and spoken with women who told me the same thing about MM willing to take great risks after being informed. How many of them admit to the wife? probably very few, they are not stupid men."

Why didn't YOU care about the risk? You are married too. Why didn't You care enough to prevent a pregnancy especially since you told him of the possible consequences. You had your whole outcome in the palm or your hands and yet chose to change so many lives, and not for the better. How selfish was that.

---->Didn't say I didn't care. I did and put the brakes on quite a few times in our 7 years together. that is only an example not how I said it happened. My point was to bring up the fact that you are generalizing when you say the women hide the facts from the naive poor mm.

I will not respond to anymore of your posts either. All you want to do is argue too because everything becomes personal.

--->eventually, when people like you come along, generalizing as you have in your posts on this thread, lumping everyone in the ow catagory together as "they", you got it, it becomes personal. No one can ever win a debate when they toss in words like "they" did or want or wish or are mad..."they" is personal. Like if I said "they" all white people or "they, all black people, or "they" - jewish people..you get my drift I'm sure.

you see me as taking it personally, and I see you as personally attacking "us". you're right. so lets stop the blame and judgement games now, and move on.
cm

[ November 26, 2002, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: CMiranda ]

Melissa,

Could you find anything for Louisiana or point me in that general direction. I'm in the position where I see both sides of the CS coin...I am owed thousands of dollars from my ex-legitimate husband who he sired a special needs child with me and I'm also screwed here by the courts for Mr."T"'s illegitimate child created in a three night stand and they want $600 a month for the child and that's more than our mortgage and Mr."T"'s is supporting four children at home plus me 100%...the courts didn't recognize my son...told Mr."T" that I can get out and work...well then, if the ex-ow was on welfare, why didn't they tell her to get out and work too?

If there are organziations for FAIR CS reforms, I'm interested. I want what's fair...not exhortbiant.....

Thanks for any help and you can get my e-mail addy from Catnip if you wish.

Hugs and prayers,
Twiisty

Hey mshermi
No offense taken at anything you have posted here. It's good to see your screenname! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I don't know how to prevent anyone from filtering negativity when there was nothing personal to begin with... The fact that you didn't name other xOW on your post is probably because you couldn't think of any that stood out to you??? Sheesh, you haven't been here for quite a while! Am I right???

mo5 I respect you as a person, but as a poster, you need to get a grip, woman! Just take a minute and breathe before you read here and post and try not to take every single thread so personally. If you are logging onto MB with your heart pounding in your throat, you probably are way too emotional and need to pause and breathe or else don't even log on until you can do so calmly and objectively.

Your life is settled, right? You're not facing nearly the trauma of many who come here for help. You don't need help, per se, right? So you have something more to offer, I believe, than arguments and whining... yes, whining!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You have to be willing to humble yourself. If you keep coming across as if your life is soooo perfect and your husband the betrayed has accepted your xOM with open arms and you guys have huge blended family get togethers (OC birthday celebrations) with BS's and OP's all in the same room happily mingling it is really hard to swallow, EVEN FOR ME and I'm not a BS!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So come on now, be the sensitive person you are! If I remember correctly, you are a mom of a special needs child? Did you say that? I can't remember, but doesn't your OC have severe asthma? Aren't you one of the most loving of moms who posts here? I think so?!! And not just because I are one too!!!

So stop acting like a baby! Boy, talk about whining! Listen to you! And I say that with the upmost respect and love toward you because I know you are better than this... Look for the good and ignore offenses. Good will come back to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (give and it shall be given... hostility or kindness, understanding or defensiveness)

Actually, I think you owe an apology... but that's just my opinion... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mom of five:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr /> Obratti and BTDT, I hope you take no offense. I believe that you two are an exception because of your understanding and compassion for those that have been hurt. I mean you no ill will, please know that. You are not lumped in my above thinking process <hr /></blockquote>IF THESE TWO ARE SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT AS NOT BEING THIS WAY, IT WOULD STAND TO REASON YOU ARE IMPLYING THE OTHERS ARE...
OK i AM TOO BUSY FOR THIS, I HAVE HOUSE WORK, ERRANDS AND PIES TO BAKE. HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING.<hr /></blockquote>This is what I'm talking about... Quit reading into people's words. You gotta admit, your filter is a bit off-key, meaning what is said vs. how you interpret it. Take what is written for face value and stop putting words into people's mouths through your negative interpretation. You do this quite often.

You have done it to me and others who have simply chosen to ignore you. So consider yourself spanked and then hugged! I don't mean to offend you, but come on now, if you are going to have successful "relationships" here, you need to admit when you are wrong. This was a wrong interpretation of what was said...

Also regarding your sarcasm about Happy Thanksgiving. Come on now! I could be wrong and maybe you were sincere but after what you posted just prior, it doesn't read as sincere... Because ALL of us are busy and ALL of us have pies to bake and ALL of us are raising children and ALL of us are having company over this week, and ALL of us are dealing with this OC stuff and many of us are full-time employees to boot!

So pa-leeze quit saying how "busy" you are--join the club! We are all busy, but should not be too busy to be considerate of each other. You know I believe you are so busy squinting at gnats that you miss the elephants going by!

If expecting others to be considerate of before returning the favor, then we will never get it because it works backwards. We have to give in order to receive. It's a life principle. Things just work that way. You don't get the fruit before you plant the seed and even then, you gotta water it for a long, long time...

I'm not your enemy and I do hope that you receive this encouragement in the spirit that it was given--as from a friend, fellow wife and mom of an OC...

[ November 26, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]

ACTUALLLY I do mean for every one to have a happy thanksgiving, why wouldnt I !? Pretty hard not to, Family friends, all the goodies..

This site and these people on it, do not effect how we spend our holiday, and if it does you need to find something to do. so I repeat have a happy holiday.

as far as an apology goes, I will stick it right up there with all the ones I receive here on a regular basis.

WHINING... your right I get sick of hearing all the garbage you people give this other person, when your husband was a willing participant.. But if I was whining, I am sorry, I guess thats just one more thing we have in common, ws[if they are female] whine as much as BS.

so I dont need to be spanked or hugged but thanks, You know what I bet I am just having a crisis,,, gotta be it. consider that with all the love behind it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I was just talking about me being busy and not enough hours in my day.. I never meant the rest werent busy so again please do not read into that.. I am sure many of you are very busy, and Like me probably too busy to sit around and debate garbage,
so good night

You have to be willing to humble yourself. If you keep coming across as if your life is soooo perfect and your husband the betrayed has accepted your xOM with open arms and you guys have huge blended family get togethers (OC birthday celebrations) with BS's and OP's all in the same room happily mingling it is really hard to swallow, EVEN FOR ME and I'm not a BS!!!

what the heck, I dont care if you believe it or not, know one asked you to, I dont think any thing is that unusual about two people putting their child first, before all the petty crap.
sorry if you or any one else doesnt like it, I dont do it for you or any one else to believe, I do it for my daughter, om does it for his daughter.. I am not his enemy he and I are friends, so that is why it is so hard to belive... makes it easier to compromise I would guess.. NO one ever said it was perfect, and You have never heard that from me, but it is a hell of a lot better, than running around griping about a person you have never ever seen and more than likely wont ever see. at least it is productive. aT LEAST A CHILD IS BEING LOVED AND CARED FOR AND KNOWS HER PARENTS LOVE HER.. SHE DOESNT SEE GARBAGE WHEN SHE GOES FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE. What amazes me is that none of you seem tot hink it is possible and it should be this way if you are having to share a child wouldnt it be better to do so with out being ugly.

I never said husband accepted with open arms, I said they are polite to each other thats all.. what the heck is so hard to believe about that. why would people at a childs birthday party do any thing but be polite and celebrate the child, after all it is her day not ours, I owuld be ashamed if I oculd not manage that for a couple of hours for my daughter.. what would I be teaching her.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mom of five:
ACTUALLLY I do mean for every one to have a happy thanksgiving, why wouldnt I !? Pretty hard not to, Family friends, all the goodies..

This site and these people on it, do not effect how we spend our holiday, and if it does you need to find something to do. so I repeat have a happy holiday.

as far as an apology goes, I will stick it right up there with all the ones I receive here on a regular basis.

WHINING... your right I get sick of hearing all the garbage you people give this other person, when your husband was a willing participant.. But if I was whining, I am sorry, I guess thats just one more thing we have in common, ws[if they are female] whine as much as BS.

so I dont need to be spanked or hugged but thanks, You know what I bet I am just having a crisis,,, gotta be it. consider that with all the love behind it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I was just talking about me being busy and not enough hours in my day.. I never meant the rest werent busy so again please do not read into that.. I am sure many of you are very busy, and Like me probably too busy to sit around and debate garbage,
so good night<hr /></blockquote>Mo5,

I don't read sarcasim in anything you wrote. I hear your about as tired of it all as I am but that is it. I guess it is all in the ears of the beholder like they've been saying to us forever now. And busy...go on and vent about being busy and tired all you want. 5 kids, several homes to keep up, helping in your community like you do, sheez, that is a big platter you have. A Happy Thanksgiving to you and your precious family.

love ya-cm

My apologies to mshermi and catnip for hijacking your thread to say what I felt compelled to say. I hope it wasn't a complete waste of time. I stand by what I said. It IS good to see your screenname posting again, mshermi. I'll just keep my mouth shut and ignore what doesn't apply to me... wise words indeed!

BTDT,

Absolutely no apologies are necessary from you. I happen to think you are one very wise woman and love to read all your posts. All of them have such insight. You may post on my thread anytime. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope you and yours have a wonderful Holiday.

Melissa

No harm done at all, BTDT. I always enjoy your POV. All threads have the talent for going their own way and morphing onto some other topic so I rarely have a problem with topics that sedgway into other topics. Besides, mission accomplished....Mshermi was looking for her mystery lady and found her (Babstr) and Babstr got her incredibly valuable information...makes me wish I lived in Illinois.

As long as we are chatting, I just want to tell you how invaluable you are to this site. Your perspective has taught me a lot about OC situations and happy endings. It gives me hope that someday the OC in my life will grown up whole and happy and eventually have a mother worthy of her, if not already.

This week was sighted to be my most difficult week of the year, but instead it had been the biggest blessing and I am not sure why. I haven't even prayed on it, have not turned to God at all staying in the mortal world where mistakes run rampant, yet, He has shown me incredible love and mercy and for some reason has seen what is in my heart and granted me peace. I feel so incredibly lucky and blessed today which is such an irony.

Despite the chronic heartburn on this site and the difficulty we have communicating with other members at times, I sincerely wish with all my heart that all of you feel as I do today, and that this holiday season marks new beginnings for all of us in our marriages. Those who are having difficulty, may they find solutions, those whose spouses are in turmoil and not in the home, may God open their eyes and soften their hearts.

Catnip =^^=

Hi guys! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
& I have to agree with you catnip it HAS been a rough week and it seems like we are not alone! I have relatives "going through it" too. I guess we can be thankful that it has not been worse... Maybe it's a distraction to get us off of focusing on our true blessings! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

One example, my OC is now 20 and sprouting wings to fly. Has found a place with some roommates and will be moving in this Saturday! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I know OC's grown and it's time for me to let go, still, it's rough... OC is not leaving on a bad note--just very independent and ready to move forward in maturity. If I had it my way, OC would be home until OC decided to marry--which means forever if OC decides to remain single! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I guess mommie can't "protect" him forever! Even tho that's a crock! It still feels that way when all the kids are all tucked in their warm beds in their rooms at night...

*sigh*

I know OC will make it! Just have to keep telling myself that God loves OCs MORE than we do! God can and will take care of His own! WS/BS's with no OC contact should never ever feel guilty for their decision to preserve their marriages--just my opinion. My OC is proof that if God will do it for one, He will take care of every one. God is so good!