These are the best two quotes yet......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To say he won't would be to say that God can't. Have faith.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">from Noplacelikehome

and....from Tigger

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> if you "let go and let God", He can, will, and does work miracles, even in what seems to be the impossible!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I myself needed to hear that today!

God is good - He is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. With God, NOTHING is impossible. Wow, POWERFUL stuff !!!!!!

Angelia

Thanks you two, I had a really bad night and today isn't going so hot.
I got another message from OM's mom last night, I want to tell her to stop calling here at my parent's but don't want to talk to her. OM thinks me and Tim are back together because of the NC letter and wanted us to know that he wouldn't fight for paternity so we could make a family. He still wants to be the husband/dad but is "conceding" to Tim. God seems to be putting everything in place from sending him overseas for at least 6 months and up to 2 years. I admit I have some mixed feelings, I don't want him to get hurt but I'm grateful that God is taking away my "drug" during this recovery time for me.
As far as any hope of a marriage with Tim, it is bleak. I will not stray in my relationship with God, I need to prove to myself that I don't need a man in my life to be happy.
I knew noplace was a WS but didn't realize you were as well tigger, thank you for sharing your story. I realize most on here seem to be BS and I understand having WS on here could be negative but I really don't know where else to vent and get feedback from people committed to marriage and come from where I am, WS and possibly pregnant with OM's baby.
I feel like such a failure when it comes to this baby already. I have put him through major stress and it doesn't seem to be ending. I started my anti-d's again a couple days ago and although they are safe during pregnancy I didn't want to put anything in my body I didn't need to. Then when he's born he gets just me. Not what I expected when I ever dreamt of being pregnant and having a baby. Then I have to remind myself that I did all this to myself.
Thanks for listening and praying for us. It is encouraging to see that marriages can work even though it's not easy.
Patty

Butterfly,
I noticed something in your last post I wanted to comment on. I don't know what state you're in, but in most states your OM would have no rights to paternity if you don't volutarily give them to him, so don't let him threaten you with that. Your child will automatically be considered a child of your marriage legally, and even if you have a DNA test done and it turns out the child isn't your H's, you don't have to furnish OM with those results. In order to try to establish paternity, a man must have "standing" with the court (i.e a paternity test estblishing him as the father). Your OM will have none, and no judge will give it to him. So have no fear, on that account at least.
Keep your chin up, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I know how heartbreaking this is for you. Take care of that little baby!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Patty,

Sent it.

Thanks.

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Butterfly,

I was wondering how you are today! I thought of you and your H a lot this weekend, and hope you are as well as can be expected! I am continuing to keep you both in my prayers.

Tigger

Thanks for checking up on me Kily and tigger. I will email you as soon as I'm done here Kily if you want to edit out your email addy on your post.
This weekend was a lot better for me. I wasn't quite sure what to do about going to our churches this weekend but I knew that Tim had been scheduled late on Saturday night and wouldn't show up to that service so I decided to go. I tried to be incognito and God has such a sense of humor that the pastor(it's a very informal, friendly church) was talking about how we mess him up when we sit in a different place like Patty who's sitting on the opposite side where she usually does. I had to laugh... it was good though. I talked with one of our mutual friends who was our pastor for many years but is now a missionary. I had emailed him a few days prior and told him I don't want him to feel like he's in the middle and I have a lot of support around me to just be there for Tim. I did fill him in on what happened this week and told him that in the future I would just tell him how I personally was doing so he could be support and friend to Tim. I think I did the right thing.
This church has a psychiatrist on staff and she is great. She organize conferences and groups of all kinds. I was praying last week because I need to work on me and I want to stop my behaviors where I "self-medicate" pain with sex. I had my affairs, EA and PA after major incidents in my life like finding out I have a 1/2 sister as a result of an affair my dad had (history sure repeats <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ), losing my job after 16 years as a respected manager because someone didn't like my appearance, and then finally because I felt VERY rejected both physically and emotionally with Tim's addictions to porn and then it being more male orientated. (I am getting long-winded but I am excited where God seems to be leading me!)
They have a sexual recovery group that starts in a week, you have to apply because it's not just like group therapy but it's actual work to help you get "fixed". This seems like such an answer to prayer. I hope that my application is accepted!
Went to church again yesterday morning to the other one we go to and again God is humorous. Tim had written in his note the other night that he hopes my "patty-tree" would grow and produce fruit. Well....Sat service, guess what the passage was...Luke 6:43-45.. a good tree bears fruit, basically God had GIGO(garbage in,garbage out) figured out years ago! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Yesterday's service was more the same. 1 John 4:1-4 about Joy. Joy as a fruit of the Spirit. He pointed out that that you can tell a tree to produce fruit but rather it's how the tree is nurished and taken care of. I think God wanted me to focus on my "tree" this weekend whatcha think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Having some mixed thoughts where OM is concerned, his shipping out this week makes me feel a little worried for him. I know that it's going to take awhile to completely get him out of my system completely. I am grateful that he's going to be gone so I can get over him completely!
Tim hasn't spoken to me since last Monday other than handing me a note and telling me to read it the other night. I don't expect him to either, he seems very determined to move on and get me out of his life as quickly as possible. His demands in his note want everything seperated and done by Feb.1st and he wants NC from me. I know only a miracle from God would reconcile us at this point and I am not going to expect one. I can only work on me now.
Sorry to be sooo longwinded this morning...I am in better spirits overall and appreciate you guys looking in on me.
Patty

Hi BE,

I've been reading your posts and like others I want to encourage you to keeping posting here.

Briefly... I too found porn on my H's computer which came as a total shock and, even though there wasn't a pa/ea, it took quite awhile for me to get over it. I too checked out of our marriage emotionally, had an affair, and am expecting a baby as a result. And like you, mine is a boy (I just found out!). I'm due at the end of May, so you're further along than I am.

It seems you're further along in terms of your marriage aswell. It's been encouraging for me to hear the stories of those who've been able to make something great out of such a messed up situation. It's also been wonderful to find people who can not only sympathize, but offer support, encouragement, and loving advice.

Since my H and I are still more or less starting out on this road, I don't have much advice, but I would like to share with you some of the ways that God's been working in my life.

I think part of this process is not only accepting God's forgiveness, but also learning to forgive yourself (I'm not there yet). It sounds like we're both trying to deal with similar feelings of shame and guilt that come as a result of our actions. I don't know how many times I've asked myself, "How did I manage to mess up my life so badly??" It's hard to imagine we're deserving of anyone's forgiveness or to believe that there's grace sufficient to cover our sins.

Luckily God sees us differently.

At church the other day, we were singing a song about the cross (I don't even remember which one, and it's not really important). I could hardly get the words out cause of my super-charged emotions and cause I didn't feel like I deserved to be singing. Then it hit me...

He knew what I was going to do, but died for me anyways.

What I did may've shocked my H, our families, our friends, and even me. But it didn't surprise God. It saddened Him, for sure, but He know's past, present and future so He was certainly prepared for it. And knowing all He does about all my shortcomings and failures, He still chose to die for me and He still loved me first.

And knowing everything about you, Patty, He still chose to die for you and He still loved you first. Let that sink in. I don't understand it and don't feel worthy of it, but it's still true.

There's a song by Keith Green that you may or may not've heard. He introduced it by saying that it's a song that God wrote to him. I can't remember the whole thing, but here's the chorus:

"When I hear the praises stop
I want to rain upon you
Blessings that will fill your heart.
I see no stain upon you.
For you are My child and you know Me.
To Me, you're only holy.
Nothing that you've done remains;
Only what you do for Me."

Yikes. When I hear that song, it's almost too much to take. This reply is way longer than I meant for it to be. I just wanted to let you know that I understand some of what you're going through, and I wanted to encourage you in the same way that much of what you've said has encouraged me.

You and your H will be in my prayers.

Amy

Amy, I don't know if the forgiving ourself part is going to come quickly or even if we can ever completely forgive ourselves. The only thing we can do is learn from our past mistakes and not make them again.
Congratulations on your little boy! No matter who the father is this is an innocent little life who you have the responsibility of molding. I think God uses these little ones sometimes to show us innocence. If you want to talk off thread let me know, other than this mess I've made of my relationship with Tim I really am enjoying being pregnant with the exception of no one to share it with. I only wish I hadn't screwed up and didn't put me and Tim in this situation. We wanted a baby for so long and he would be such a good daddy. I love how he is with our nephews.
God's grace is good and for that I'm especially grateful. I need to STAY in relationship with God no matter what circumstances in life happen and that is my prayer.
As for being further along in my marriage, I'd have to disagree. We are seperated and Tim's choice is NC with me. I don't want it that way but it's no longer in my hands. Are you and your hubby in counselling? We did some with Steve H. and his ideas and techniques are really good and helpful. I read through my notes again just recently and I wish I hadn't have been in the fog when we were talking to him. I was receptive to what he was saying but at the time was too selfish and rebellious to want to make the necessary moves to commit to my marriage. I will always regret that I didn't come out of my fog earlier and had a chance at reconcilliation.
Keep in touch..did you get to have the level 2 ultrasound? The one that you can see EVERYTHING in great detail? That was probably the most amazing thing I've seen to date.
Patty

Amy
I forgot! That Keith Green song is awesome. I never knew who he was until he died and they held a big memorial for him in San Diego. I went down with a friend not knowing who he was and what a heart he had. Thanks for reminding me of his music.

Patty

It's official! I'm firing my therapist! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
After her telling me last week that I was justified in having my affair because of Tim's sexual behaviors I thought I wasn't in the right place. She doesn't want to deal with my past sexual acting out, doesn't have a plan on how I can get myself better. So...I found her replacement today. Without looking. God again is in control in a MAJOR way in my life.
The program I want to join next week about sexual recovery has an application which I went to pick up. Well, the physchiatrist on staff at church was the only one there and I asked her if she did IC. We spoke for about 45 mins about what's been going on and I was surprised how comfortable I was with her. She's hired! I call her tomorrow to set up times to see her. What another great answer to prayer!!
Went to apartment to pick up the rest of my stuff except the furniture and Tim has pretty much cleaned it all out for me taking it to storage which was nice since I don't want to lift up heavy things but at the same time showing me how much he wants me out of his life completely. It's almost like he wishes the last 14 years never existed. I was sad to see our dog, took her for a walk and I miss being there with Tim and the dog. I love him so much and being around his stuff just didn't help.

Butterfly,

I am glad to see that you fired your old counselor, and will be seeing the one who is starting the group at the church! As you keep pointing out to yourself, God really is in control of your situation, and is working His miracles even as I am typing this reply to you! It may not feel like it, especially when you were at the apartment to pick up your stuff and Tim had "taken care" of all your things for you. But, I see the caring that he still has for you! He didn't have to move any of the heavy stuff for you. He could have told you to just deal with it, or figure it out for yourself! DON'T GIVE UP! If it is in God's will, Tim will come around!

I can see, that from Tim's pov, you seeing xOM over Thanksgiving was the ultimate betrayal. It doesn't matter that at that time you weren't commited to the marriage yet. He had made his ultimatum clear, and you broke it. Now, I'm not trying to get you down, because I still believe that God's will always prevails! Continue to give Tim the time he needs right now, but don't give up on your love for him! Even if a D happens, it is said that you should wait 1-2 yrs before starting a new relationship, and a lot can happen in that time!

All that damage that has been done in your M will take time to heal! Believe me! We are almost 3 yrs past D-day for me, and over 10 for H(look at my sig line) and we are still working on our M! Of course, we should always work on it, but it takes a lot to fix something this major!

Keep posting, and keep walking w/God! There are so many who are pulling for you guys!

Tigger

Hey BE,

glad to hear you found a better cousellor! Things really seem to be falling into place in a neat way.

I don't have a long time to write today, but I'd love to talk to you some more. Off thread. I don't really know how it works for getting email addresses since I don't really want to post it. Can you get it from the Administrators? Let me know if that won't work.

Amy

Butterfly,

I'm stealing this from MT and our friends over on the EN board. It's support for doing the right thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered
Forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

You see in the final analysis it is between you and God; it was never between you and them anyway.

~Mother Theresa~

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God bless you, Patty.

A lot of good stuff is still happening, along with a little tough.
I have my first session with "church lady" shrink tomorrow morning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I pretty much have been accepted into the program at church just have to sign the contract and pay the bill. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Found out my new friend from church (last wed's God send) has so many parallels to my story it's still kinda creepy in a God-breathed kinda way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Situation at my parents house has been bearable the last couple of days. I decided that since it's unhealthy living conditions I would just keep cleaning until it isn't. Stepping on my mom's toes but she doesn't clean and I'm not kidding! Having my little hole in the garage/playroom neat really made a difference to me tonight. I don't know what I'm going to do for living situation but this will suffice for the interim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Reading a lot it seems, I want to get my hands on as much information as possible. Tim did this same thing when he was making his transformation and now that I'm reading some of the books that he read it sucks that I can't share my excitement and talk it over with him. I really didn't know what I had <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I had to pull some information off my computer at the apt this morning, called and just got machine so stopped in for about 10 mins. Saw Tim walking up with the dog as I was getting into my truck and the look on his face just killed me. He can't stand even looking at me. I really hurt him bad and it shows in the contempt in his face. I had to just pray as I was driving away because what I really wanted to do was break down in tears. I've dried those for the most part this week because I will not be how I've been the couple of years. I am not allowing myself to sink into despair and depression. I am making sure that I am getting out of the house and doing something EVERY day to better myself and heal my life. Tim may not want me as a Godly wife now (more realistically ever)but someday someone will appreciate the changes that I'm allowing God to make in me. I am not going to let myself get out of relationship with Him again. It is so much easier when I am in step with God and letting Him control things instead of me trying to control everything. (I'm a bit of a control freak)
I heard something on Christian radio yesterday afternoon and I've had to absorb it all day today. The guy said, sometimes when you aren't coming back to God he has to use a crisis situation in order for you to become broken enough to have no hope other than reaching out to God. I think God had to use something this drastic as Tim giving up on the marriage and seperating to get me to totally commit and change myself. I had started by recommitting to God but I hadn't started the change process in my life. I don't think it would've been on this intense of a level if we hadn't seperated either. I am focused on one thing only right now, my relationship with God and allowing Him to guide my steps to heal my life. Guess that was 2! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I think Tim's crisis situation that brought him back to God in a big way was DDay back in June and I left to go spend the week with OM. Tim followed me up a day later. Picture this if you guys can. Tim is 5'8 about 140. OM is 6'3 240. Tim found a way to get himself on base, found the right barracks and knocked on the door. Talk about David and Goliath. I went with him down to the rest stop and he did his best to show me Biblically why what I was doing was wrong. I was so deep in my sin that although I listened to Tim I didn't "listen" or even appreciate the extreme avenue Tim went to save our marriage. I wish I had a softer heart then and could hear. He drove me back to the barracks and later he told me that was pretty much one of the hardest things he's ever done. Taking me back to the OM. I can't believe what I put this man through. No wonder he hates me. I can only pray that God can work in both of us now as individuals and if it's ever in His plan to heal us together.
Patty

Amy, I'm not sure how to do the private messages here, see where they are but not how to use them. My email is butterfly_emerging2002@yahoo.com if you want to contact me that way. Let me know when you've picked this message up and I'll delete my addy.
Talk to you soon, Patty

K.. that was good. Although doing the right thing isn't always easy it does pay off in the long run. I know that I had to tell Tim about seeing OM after his ultimatum but the destruction it caused really made me doubt if it was right.
You guys that have been in recovery, like tigger and yourself really are inspirational and make me realize that this won't be easy regardless of if the marriage will ever have breath again.
Thanks for peeking in on my thread..Patty

Somewhat of an interesting development occured about an hour ago. Someone broke his NC with me and even though the bitterness is still in his voice he is listening to God's direction. I am NOT reading more into this than just that, he is being obediant to God. Please pray for God's will for us the next couple of days and that the humans follow the leading!
Patty

Butterfly,

What may seem just a scratch on the surface could very well turn into a major gash in the future that could turn the tide! What good news, even if it's just a tiny thing, to read this morning! Of course, all the other things about the counselor, cleaning your little corner, your new friend/support line. It's all working for your new walk w/God, and where that walk can and will take you! I will continue to pray for healing for both you and Tim! If you both continue to do God's will, you will both be rewarded! Oh, and continue to keep your side of this bargain(NC)! Stick to these rules, and don't do anything to further jeapordize what little growth has happened so far!

I'm still pulling for you both!

Love,

Tigger

BE,
I was a BS with a pregnant WS. Our child was born on Jan. 2 and I couldn't be happier. I too gave my wife the, it's over! I had no contact with her for two months, filed for divorce, sent her the papers. She had decided during this NC time to be with me but went to see OM anyways slept with OM . . . . this was one that took me some time to forgive. We are now very happy enjoying raising our son. There is always hope and remember where you are now is much better than where you were in the happiest moment in your marriage because true happiness lies only in God. Stay strong in Him.

Butterfly,

I can say from just posting to you in this short time that you really did the right thing in coming clean with H. You didn;t tell the truth to ruin the "R", you did it to free yourself from the prison that you kept yourself in. As painful as it is, and as bad as things seem right now, GOD is there and you have found HIM again.

I think it's great that you get out and DO something EVERY DAY. Maybe going to live with your parents was a way to get you to really understand just how MUCH you had been willing to throw away. Sometimes you need to see your OWN life through different eyes to understand and appreciate the "gifts" that you overlooked.

My heart and prayers go out to you.