On the "other board", I read an antiquated phrase I hadn't heard since the 70's suggesting that....

Marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper

Apparantly, the person touting this (more than once) is under the impression that an institution that has been a part of civilization and society since the dawn of time and desired by 90% of the world's population is reduced, in her mind, as nothing more than a piece of paper. Just pulverized wood, water and chemicals stained with ink.

The writer implies that the "bond" between a husband and wife is not significant and has no value. The writer implies that the history they share is meaningless and that their union is nothing more than convenience and then minimizes the importance of marriage that is created to nuture a couple and their offspring into a whole and complete unit.

Well, I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions. I understand that some people who are not married will blow it off as no big deal (for whatever reason) until they find "The One" and embrace marriage and all it's meaning and significance for themselves.

For me, I put that "marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper" on the shelf along with other outdated phases like "groovy", "peace, man" or more recntly, "schwing"...hahaha.

Seeing that phrase resurrected after all these decades after we have all been enlightened how crucial marriage is to the well-being of society as a whole, is troubling for the lament of the writer who might be reacting out of lonliness, envy/anger or fear.

The point of this post is to rebutt the other poster's declaration that marriage is nothing and to reinforce the pervasive notion that marriage is the foundation of an adult's life, well-being and gives each person in the couple the connection to create a bond meaningful in their lives that will see them through the good, the bad and the ugly.

Look, I just woke up. I'm groggy and not very eloquent yet, but this has bothered me every time I read it and if anyone is reading this stuff over there, especially Newbies, I don't want the power of suggestion to influence you and take from you what is your truth, your foundation.

Nuf said.

So if it's just a piece of paper, why is the gay community so eager to get in on the same piece of paper, huh????????????

It doesn't surprise me to hear the term. Especially on a site that affirms adultery.

The term alone lends itself to legitimizing an A.

Afterall, how much remorse is there in being party to ripping up a piece of paper?

Oh and cat, even groggy, you are still eloquent.

~ad

People who make these blanket generalizations usually are the ones who can't find anyone who WANTS to marry them. That's JMHO.

Marriage is so much more than a piece of paper. It is a commintment you make to one another in the eyes of the lord. But as others have stated already, we can tell that the person who posted that comment doesn't have much of a life

I recall reading the piece of paper comment too. Although I remember it being used in the context of a discussion about the relationship of the BS and the OC, as in there is no blood connection between them. Which is the truth. It was not claiming marriage is "just" a piece of paper. At least that is how I took it. I'm married and I didn't take offense. I think everyone really needs to relax a bit.

Let me guess - the person who made that very profound statement has never actual had ownership of that particular "piece of paper" & obviously covets those who have that "piece of paper" & seeks to destroy the relationship that is represented by that meaningless "piece of paper".

CC68~

I don't know about everyone else, but I'm relaxed.

It's a peice of paper to the OW. But to the W it was a commentment, a promise, FOREVER! Though hard times, good times, all times. Not just a "piece of Paper" until some no account hiefer with no morals, no respect for herself or her children try to GET the piece of paper! Hello, thats what they want. They want H to leave and marry them. So them it becomes more than just a "piece of paper". That just really kills me. I have never had as much disrespect for people, until I read on the TOW site. This is what these people are up to, how they think, act, and preceive marriage. No concept of what they caused will effect our children FOREVER, And we are to CARE about them and the OC first. NOT ON THIS EARTH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I beleive in turning the cheek, but GOD never said let someone keep slapping it. He, expects us to take up for our marriages, families and what we believe in. I can see w/o him, why theses OW feel so much hatred, and who their leader is. I would be sad to know all my effort, and time was spent tring to tear apart someone elses life.

I also read that statement on the "other board". They were implying that MM & OC were connected by blood and MM & BS were only connected by a "piece of paper", the old agage 'blood is thicker than water'.

There is a signifigance in that statement though. MM and BS are also connected by CHOICE, something that MM and most OC are NOT and are NEVER given.

That right there sums it up for me. MM is CHOOSING to be w/ BS and BC, while OW FORCES OC upon MM. We all know that men, married or not, have absolutely NO say in the birth of a child. That is a legal fact.

In a marriage, most H and W CHOOSE to have a child. I don't know of any marriage where the W got pg on purpose w/o H consent.(although I'm sure there may be wacky ones out there) Even "unplannned" pg IN marriage are usually welcomed w/ the idea that "occasionally it happens" and "what a NICE surprise".

Not like the unplanned pg from A that most men do NOT want but then are forced.

Yah, they can trivialize all they want and then build up the relationship between OC and MM but we all know the cold hard truth.

OC are chosen by their mothers and are forced upon MM while BC and BS are forever chosen by BOTH parents. OC will forever be an outsider in some way, I don't care how great the relationship is between all the parties involved. At best OC will always "visit" w/ their father and never "live" w/ them like most BC.

Father will have limited C when OC is born whether he wants to or not because of logisitics, newborns need thier mothers to provide necessary nourishment, for one. It is not like children in the home where father can come straight home from work and cuddle w/ baby, or even take time off of work to offer support to the new mommy and baby. THERE ARE MAJOR DIFFERENCES that will always be there.

Any way, you all know what I mean so I don't think I really have to explain much more.

For being 'just a piece of paper', it sure does bring a lot of priviledge and power. And another thing, THAT piece of paper assures that the legiteamacy (sorry sp?) of MY children will automatically be ASSUMED and not questioned, rightfully so! NOBODY doubts who the father of MY children are!

Just like many other pieces of paper we receive in our lives. The difference between the guy who surgically repairs your heart and the one who wheels you into your hospital room-----a piece of paper---which one do you want to operate on you?

Thanks cat, for bringing this up. I am not insulted by their point of view because I don't expect any less from those still in the "fog". It's' just so interesting that 1 side can be considered so "sacred" (OC & blood) yet the other side is so trivialized (BS & marriage).

Haven't read it myself,
but I would be willing to wager that the comment
could have easily been made by someone who, during
the throws of the A, was looking forward to/hoping for
that"piece of paper."

And Cat, I agree... even groggy you are eloquent.
I've missed you!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

*waving*... HI AUT!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have heard people say that about marriage too. It definitely is said with the attitude of looking down their noses, but rarely said by someone who, as mentioned, owns the paper. It means a lot to me. Even my hubby doesn't understand that I meant it when I said no matter what, even when I don't like him, for better or worse, forever. It's more than just paper, more than words in a ceremony; it is a sacred vow and commitment. Unfortunately I chose to marry a jekyl and hyde. Without the paper, I would have been outta here long ago. Since I have it, I'm doing my darndest...

<small>[ March 23, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: aimee2 ]</small>

What I find so ironic is that the person who made the comment on the other board isn't an ow.

It says alot about generalizations.

Well said Amiee!

Catnip,

I believe a person involved in the deceit of an Extra Marital Affair and they know full well their lover is married, does not honor the institution of marriage itself. So naturally the opinion from the posters of the TOW board really doesn't surprise me.

Sometimes I think how quickly the majority of OW would change their minds if their MM would act the slightest bit interested in divorcing the W and indicating they wanted to marry their OW.

Probably all in all, its a case of total sour grapes.

JMHO of course.

I used to buy into the adage, blood is thicker than water. What my H has demonstrated to me, proves it is NOT true in all cases. He is not related to me or our son by blood, but loves us just as much as the children we produced together.

My H chose to marry me, yes. But he sure as hell didn't choose for me to have another man's baby, but when faced with it...he chose to accept the baby as his own. He chose to love the baby and to view him as someone on the same team as himself. DNA made no difference.

As Coffeeman likes to say, "Love knows no DNA"

On the piece of paper thing...Wasn't that a common thought on marriage by people who were justifying living together out of wedlock, years ago?

Hi back atcha, Stacia...(the emailing has been fun, bringing lots of sunshine to me up here!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 23, 2004, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

well then CeeCee68, like I tell my kids....people will think you are who you associate with.

Trying to teach them to choose quality friends and people to be "associated" with. If my children choose to hang out with those of low morals and standards then others will not expect more of them, but if they choose to hang out with those who challenge them to be better then others will expect them to be better too.

If my children choose to hang out w/ losers people will think they are a loser too. That's just how it is. Then they also run the risk of actually becoming one. That's why I try to stress to them to "choose wisely".

hahahahahahaha! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL & totally smirking to myself!

IT is so good to actually see--in writing--(confinrming everything we have always thought)-that we (the "horrible") BS are not the ONLY ones guilty of the occasional broad sweeping generalizations. The way we sometimes rant and rave about "our" OW, sometimes making our statement all inclusive.

The other board has written a response to us, I encourage you to read it for yourself. Maybe you will learn something. Get some good marital advice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You don't really have to read it to know how much marriage is really respected and valued on the other side. The truth is only "thier" marraige is respected and valued, at the time of the actual marriage, of course.

And it's funny how upset some get when thier "posts" are supposedly taken out of context but I never noticed anyone bothered when MY posts have been taken out of context. But that is ok. It doesn't bother me. I felt quite flattered that something I actually said was important enough to "quote" and get some actually thinking about a different view, even if still disagreed with.

And the point that a marriage can end but a father (or any sperm/egg donor) will always be a father is total ......you know what! Ask ANY adopted child or adoptive parent and they will laugh in your face! It takes MORE than DNA to be a father or a mother!

I am speaking from experience just so there is no mistake. I had my bio-mom and non-bio DAD in my life my whole life. I met my sperm donor. I vaguely remember him as a child, (not knowing who he was) and met him as an adult (knowing who he was). Does that make him my father for life? NO WAY! What a slap in the face to my REAL father and any adoptive parent who has put in the real time and energy to EARN that title!

AND by the way any sperm/egg donor can terminate THIER rights to thier "child" @ any time by signing a PIECE OF PAPER! A piece of paper that many adoptive parents fight for and value w/ thier life!

Here on this board, we know and value the difference between sperm donors and FATHERS.

It is funny to me-- the women who are *so* against marriage- oh its just a piece of paper... a joke... OK.. WHATEVER... how can these women be SO perfect and SO wonderful... why on earth then can't they "hunt down, pummel and keep captive" the man like we BS can!!!! Ha!!!!

They just say this crap cause MM came back home and they can't stand it-- *NOW* MM is a liar, swindler, loser--- they don't want him--HA- he didn't want you or the piece of paper that could bind you. As far as the OC and that issue-- they were not fun and games anymore-- they were having children and wanted love and commitment-- DUH, then wy does OW make us out to be SO BORING... they chased off H with "our" antics, right??

I also know that a WOMEN must protect her reputation, her body and herself from GETTING PREGNANT especially to a MM. Many men are MORE than happy to go unprotected if we WOMEN let them.... and I know personally there would NEVER come a day when any MM or any MAN, PERIOD could sweet talk ME into no birth control/condom. Let alone-- wanting to knowingly sleep with anyone who I knew was getting heavy nookie and sharing personal items (eew... toilet.. cups... etc.) everyday with another.

How can it be that we are so stupid for thinking that paper means everything.. how can we want this guy... how can we believe we matter...

WOW... OW are insane in this regard... they were willing to wait, settle for and not protect their body from pregnancy to someone who was giving them 1/100th of what they share w/us. (but not sex of course).. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Actually, the phrase, "marriage is only a piece of paper" gets tossed around on MB here quite a bit too.

And it's usually by those who have decided to divorce (prior to the completed divorce) and have started dating.
After all, as they say, "my ws broke her vows first. If it's means nothing to her, then it means nothing to me, so my dating (while still having a "piece of paper") is now okay".

<small>[ March 23, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

I haven't read any of what is posted on the other board about this subject. But as and Xmow, I know during the time of my affair I was in a fog. But one thing I know, I never wanted or expected XMM to leave his wife for me. In the affair I had I was the one with all the guilt and I was the one who ended it and fessed up to my H. I consider that time of my life as hitting rock bottom. I know have more respect for marriage and still have a hard time believing what I have done and that others can have such a crappy attitude towards being respectful towards anothers marriage.