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#832175 07/28/04 01:57 PM
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In a quiet moment w/ H, I visited a topic I haven't brought up in a few months.

me- Think we'll ever tell AB of his origins?

H- No...not unless we absolutely have to.

me- What if he finds out on his own and is angry w/ me/you/us for not revealing the truth, (among all the other things he's likely to be angry about)?

H- We'll tell him we held the truth to protect him. That we did it out of love for him. He's innocent, and I'm not about to hurt him. I am his only father, and that's all that matters.

me- But, don't you think telling the truth is more loving, protective, and hurts less in the long run? Like, imagine if I'd never told you the truth?

H- [rolled his eyes, looked downward, and gave a look as if to say, I wish you hadn't, (but he didn't say a word)]

me- What? Do you wish I hadn't told you the truth?

H- [hesitates and says],No, it's ok...I guess...and I know you felt you should tell me.

me- [looking stupified, and said nothing, but pictures of life without him knowing the truth flashed through my mind, and to me it wasn't pretty]

In my mind, I began questioning my motives, "Here, I told him the truth, and it went miles toward my healing, but was it a selfish act on my part? Was it a way to ease my guilt, but at the same time hurt him, when he would've been "ok" not knowing?"

me- So, you don't believe in Radical Honesty in all situations?

H- No, I don't, not when the innocent party is unduly injured.

Then he kind of switched gears back to AB, and simply said, "Besides, if he finds out, or we find we have to tell him, it can be said that we didn't tell him because we never knew the truth for certain, and there was nothing to reveal because of never doing DNA".

me- So, you still don't want to do DNA?

H- Nope, he's mine, no test will change that fact.

Conversation ended on a good note, but in my mind I was left with more questions than answers. I was truly thrown back by H's response to the whole honesty question.

I will never, ever regret revealing the truth to him. I know it was the right thing to do. There really was no other choice, as I see it, (even though, God knows for awhile I rationalized every choice but the truth). I'm wondering if in my H's mind he realizes the truth was the only choice, but maybe it's his heart that's says he wishes he didn't know? Obviously he, like all other BS wish it weren't true, but his response really seemed like he would've preferred I never told him.

I will broach this subject again, and try to get more info. straight from the "horse's mouth", but I can only bring up A issues in small doses, or he gets upset. Until then, looking for input from you all.

Thanks.

#832176 07/28/04 02:10 PM
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speaking as bw ,i'm glad h told me the whole truth , even though the pain was and still is (at times)painfull.
Healing is slow, so if that's how he can handle it that's ok.
Just be paitent with him ,ok.
I think it takes us bs's a longer time to heal etc...
Please do one thing; Be Happy he loves you and is willing to raise ab as his own.

#832177 07/28/04 02:13 PM
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Hi,

I can see his side and I can see your side. I do think he should be told when he is grown. Sorry about the way your husband felt, but I can see how it is hard on him knowing the truth. I am sure sometimes he just wish he did not know because of the pain.

#832178 07/28/04 02:58 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think it takes us bs's a longer time to heal etc...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this, angels. As much as my H says he's over it, moved on and is healed, I have a hard time believing it. How can he be? We've never really addressed the hard core issues. In fact, it is he that begs me to try to move on, put my past in my past, forgive myself...

IMO, we are both still in the process of healing. However, I think our differences lie in that we both seek our healing in different ways.

His way appears to be to shove it underneath the rug. My fear is that is only putting the pain off, and it will be worse when left to deal with later.

The last time I brought up an issue even remotely surrounding the A, (long before this latest convo), he said, "I understand your need to talk about this, and sort it out, but honestly, for me to be able to forget about it and move on, I can't think or talk about it very much. I've forgiven you, God's forgiven you, now let's move on and enjoy life..." He does say though, that he prefers I talk about it only with him, when I absolutely have to, because he doesn't want me revealing it to anyone.

I thank God daily, and happy doesn't even begin to describe the way I feel about my H's love for me, as well as AB. He has willingly taken on the awesome responsibility of raising him as his own, and traded in a few of his dreams along the way. He is my inspiration on how to live one's life. I used to talk about it a lot, (possibly ad nauseam to some), on here.

Thanks for your responses.

#832179 07/28/04 03:16 PM
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Autumn I have the same discussion with my H only in reverse. I am the BS and he is the WS, I have adopted the OC. I believe that my son has the right to know the truth as well and my H would just like to leave it alone. I can see where you H is coming from. It may be a 'macho' thing, not wanting to appear weak or submissive (I don't mean that in a bad way) to his son. I can also understand his reluctance to say 'Yes I am glad you told me'. I don't know many people who would go through the fire and say I'm glad I was burned. If he never had a reason to question you and you never told him.... in his view alot of pain would have been avoided for him. I'm not saying I agree with this view, but that is one way to look at it. If there is no DNA and he is listed as the father the only reason for even bringing it up at all is if there is a possiblity that the OM would show up and question it at some point or someone who is privvy to the situation might let it slip, etc. I can understand your point of wanting to be truthful with him but I am not sure I agree with the Radical Honesty thing either.

#832180 07/28/04 03:32 PM
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Hi,

I think this is just the difference in men and women. Women like to discuss things, talk about it, analyze it. Men want to deal with everything differently. If they can do something to fix it, then they do. If there is nothing left to do about it then they want to move on, leave it alone. I am the BS. My husband also does not want to talk unless there is something actively going on that he needs to discuss with me. Men are not in touch with their feelings like women and just do not know how to deal with feelings. I guess that is why we have a hard time dragging them to a psychologist.

#832181 07/28/04 05:12 PM
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AD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is just the difference in men and women. Women like to discuss things, talk about it, analyze it. Men want to deal with everything differently. If they can do something to fix it, then they do. If there is nothing left to do about it then they want to move on, leave it alone.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think what Genia said hits the nail on the head for most men and women I know.

For the most part women are the talkers and men aren't. Women talk sometimes just to feel better about it and men don't talk about to pretend it didn't happen. Men like to ignore it and therefore it didn't happen/occur. Men don't tend to worry about things like we do until they are faced with it--we women tend to borrow trouble and men don't and only outwardly seem to deal with these issues when forced to. However, I think they struggle alot by having kept all those emotions/feelings to themselves.

JMO--in general women are more proactive in dealing with problems and men especially are worse if it is one they don't know how to deal with--whereas as women tend to be proactive with an issue even if we don't know how to solve it we research it and learn how to solve it. We do this instead of worrying about when we absolutely have to which most men do.

As far as telling AB--I don't know-I mean you don't even know--I will have give that some more thought.

SOrry AD for this dilemma.

<small>[ July 28, 2004, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: albany ]</small>

#832182 07/29/04 11:39 PM
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AD,

It seems that even though the situations are reversed the roles are still the same. Your H, a man who was the BH, still seems to have the attitude of a man who was the FWH, why do we have to talk about it, rehash all the hurt & pain the A caused, the child is here, We have or have not chosen contact, we are still together, lets live our lives & move on.

I am sure he feels in some ways that being in the dark about whether or not he fathered AB would be better, just like at times I am sure most BW's might think that if there was no OC involved they would be better off not knowing their H's had an A at all.

Now you, the FWW a woman are thinking ok I have told you that this child may or may not be yours, you have forgiven me, you are raising this child as your own not wanting to have DNA done, but you still feel the need to question your H about his real feelings about what to tell AB, you want to dig into the real issues of why the A started, you want to analyze, pick apart, get to the bottom of things.

I think that is just the way we are made & the same for them even in the reverse situation.

If I were in your situation I don't think I would ever tell AB anything about who his father may be unless it was absolutely necessary.

I know you know this but you are so blessed, most men would not deal w/ this situation, most can't even handle an A much less a child being born that may not belong to him. I know you have questions you need answers to and maybe one day you will get them, but keep remembering & focusing on how blessed you are that you have your family intact after all this & what a wonderful H God gave you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

#832183 07/29/04 10:03 PM
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I agree w/ teh generalization that men will shove it under the rug & women want to talk about it.

My H NEVER wants to discuss the A. I feel sometimes, like I still ahve so many unanswered questions. He says that he is afraid to discuss it w/ me (a recent revelation) because he fears that I will not love him & will think that he is still the man he was back then & he is NOT that man & doesn't want me to think that he is STILL that bad guy so he'd rather not discuss it @ all so that I won't be reminded of who he WAS.

Do you get that?

I think I have mentioned before that my dad is not my sperm donor, teenage pg not A BUT from what my mom has said, he was always afraid of telling me too but my mom thought it was best & was advised to tell me 'as I got older'. OS they sat me down & told me when I was a preteen (can't remember how old exactly).

From my standpoint, I wish I had never known but also being a girl, you know how much drama we are capable of creating for ourselves. So I don't know how a male would react to that kind of news.

I don't always agree w/ honesty is the best policy, & for sure not when it is information from parents to children. Your father is the man that raises you & I see no reason WHY ab would ever have to know. I agree w/ your H on that one.
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Also, I do agree w/ your thought that a painful truth sometimes only relieves our guilt by telling it but creates hurt for the person being told.

If someone asks then I think the truth should be told but doesn't necessarily have to be volunteered.

JMO

ktbunch

#832184 07/30/04 10:48 AM
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Thank you all for your responses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess I knew his manner of handling the issues is more because of the fundamental differences between men and woman. Heck, he can't remember when D-day was. It's not on his radar screen, not important in the scheme of things. So, there are differences between BW and BH as well.

Up until the recent convo though, I really thought he was "happy" he knew the truth. I know happy isn't the right word, and I certainly know he's not happy about the suffering it caused him, of course not, that's plain absurd. Do you know what I mean though? That he had choices in the situation, and he was able to choose them based on the facts, not lies. I thought he was in sync with me on that. Maybe he is, I don't totally know, because as I said we switched gears pretty quickly in the convo.

No matter how he feels about having been told the truth, I can't take it back now. Can't unflush a toilet so to speak. I can however remind him all the time by my actions and my words, that I love him and am eternally grateful. I stand by my belief it was the right thing to do. I can say in all honesty we are not living a lie. My H knows my sins, knows our baby may not be his bio, and yet he loves us. That's a gift, and it's good to know I didn't steal it.

As far as telling AB or anyone else for that matter someday, I'm not necessarily opposed to my H's stance. I'm not sure what I think, thus all my questioning and analyzing. Weighing the pros and cons, etc. I know we have plenty of time to think on it.

If the truth be told, I fear AB will find out, say after my H and/or I are dead, and he will never know the full truth. If I'm the only one alive, why would AB believe me when I tell him his father knew about the A and his possible origins? If we're both dead, there will be so many assumptions on his part, and no one to answer his questions. I know...I need to stop worrying about all the "what-ifs" and concentrate on the here and now. I guess it's another woman thing.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If someone asks then I think the truth should be told but doesn't necessarily have to be volunteered.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">kt~ Do you mean this in general, or do you think I shouldn't have told my H about the A unless he asked?

On that topic, I came close to telling my H a couple times before the actual D-Day. He would literally stop me before I could get anything too revealing out of my mouth, and say, "If it's something that's going to hurt me, and it's something you can deal with between just yourself and God, and possibly a counselor, then I think I don't want to know"

When I finally confessed, he admitted he suspected. He also said he was sorry I had to carry this burden so long, all by myself. Here when I was saying how sorry I was for what I did, and apologizing for being a coward, not having the you-know-what to tell him sooner, he was saying how sorry he was for making it difficult for me not to tell him sooner! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> What a man, and I ain't about to let him go!

Thanks again ladies.

~ad

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

#832185 07/30/04 11:22 PM
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No ad, I was refferring to your son's origins.
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There was a time in my life (before C w/ OC)when I thought it would have been better NOT to have known (about A & OC). BUT after hearing more of the 'truth' & realizing that I WAS living in a time of 'not knowing' & realizing how that felt to me------I have changed my mind on that. I felt like my choice was again, taken from me. I made decisions based on information I was given which turned out to be LIES. So that is a bit different.
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Your son has no choice in this as your child. He can't change who is parents are bio or not, so I don't feel it's information he ever needs. I have looked @ this from many angles & I don't know of anything that could change my mind about this specific child/parent situation. I have found no emotional, mental, medical or any rational reason WHY your child needs to know.

I know you will do what is best for you child, and that only you know what that is. This is only my opinion & what I would or wouldn't do.

I think, if your son did find out someday-----he would have an entire life time of you & H's love to base his opinion's about WHY you would not have told him & I think he would completely understand. But that maturity & understanding does not come @ a young age (like when I was told) but after being an adult, for many years even <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Yes, I don't think you should worry over this. He will be fine & secure in you & H's love so why would you ever dream of taking that security away from him? Because that is what would happen.

sincerely,
kt

#832186 07/30/04 03:06 PM
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Thank you kt, your words of advice really helped to put my mind at ease.

I've got to try to stop borrowing trouble, especially tomorrow's trouble...

Thanks again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ,

~ad

#832187 07/30/04 03:26 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H NEVER wants to discuss the A. I feel sometimes, like I still ahve so many unanswered questions. He says that he is afraid to discuss it w/ me (a recent revelation) because he fears that I will not love him & will think that he is still the man he was back then & he is NOT that man & doesn't want me to think that he is STILL that bad guy so he'd rather not discuss it @ all so that I won't be reminded of who he WAS.

Do you get that?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry kt, I forgot to answer this before. Again, I think it goes back to the differences between men and women, (and the shove under the rug mentality), more so than the differences between BS & WS. However, IMO, it somewhat has to do with him being the betrayer.

In my case, H doesn't want the details, nothing. Sometimes I feel I'm going to burst for having to keep them to myself, but other times I think, "but maybe it's good he doesn't want to know, because he may not be able to forgive me of this detail or that detail, and he may view me really, really poorly".

This is silly, I know, because he already forgave me of the ultimate, just as you have your H. He knows the BIG stuff, so common sense tells me his forgiveness and view of me as the person I am now would remain intact.

It's perhaps MY view of myself, and perhaps your H's view of himself that is the major stumbling block, I don't know? Like, if hard for us to look at, how could our BS look at it, and still love? For example, it's been really difficult for me to read the threads of the "newbies" dealing with OC from WW. It hits so close to home, opens the floodgates to so many sad memories, and things seem so raw to me again. Almost feel like I'm back in time...the time I hated myself. Maybe your H doesn't want to go back there, maybe he thinks if he hates the person he was then, surely you would too?

Maybe I grasped a bit too much as far as your H's motivations,(just trying to relate from my wayward pov), what do you think?

Have a fun weekend.

~ad

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

#832188 07/30/04 06:29 PM
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you summed it up pretty accurately.

H says just about the exact things you said. that he hates to be reminded of that time, he hates the person he WAS back then & doesn't want to think about it because he is no longer that person.

I can understand that. I know how it feels when you do something regrettable & later, when you are regretting it, it looks disgusting.

So I am left w/ my unanswered questions. That may be something that I just have to live w/. The fact that some things will NEVER make sense, there will be no good reason or explanation.

And it's not just that------it's the fact that OW has said things that are 180 opposite of what H has said. Not a fudged truth where I can find the truth in the middle but a complete & total opposite, literally like black & white.

But that is my problem not H right? I have to CHOOSE who I want to believe. What other choice do I have?

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anyway.
Note to self:
Cheer up kt & snap out of it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
We're off to the drive in to see The Village. I love M. Knight!
tootaloo!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

#832189 08/09/04 07:31 AM
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Dear Autumnday!

It may be he is afraid to "loose" the child if this truth is revealed. That some of the quality of the father child connection is affected.

The age and maturity of the child at the time of telling is of course important.
Among my parents friends there was a family with an adopted child. This child climbed into the lap of other adults, also to my parents, and asked "would you be my real mother", "Would you be my real father?" My mother says it was heartbreaking. And the parents were visibly hurt. And this went on for quite some time.

Your husband has accepted terrible blows in his marriage. Now he has invested much in this child. Why should he risk yet another blow and loss for what he feels is not necessary? Try to se through his eyes! I think he should have some rights in this. I know you want to protect his feelings,but he is not verbal and often fails to express those successfully. I believe he now just want to be the father, an ordinary father. and he is afraid that telling may dammage that.
And he is also afraid to have salt rubbed in old wounds. That’s why he don’t want to talk about your A. He wants these things to stay in the past. Try to understand him. He has done more than walk an extra mile for you. I know you have good intentions when you want to talk, but you must accept that he and you are different.


By the way, I have followed you since you first came to MB. And I have always felt a deep sympathy for you. I rarely visit MB these days, but when I do I look up your name among a few others. I hope you and yours will do well!

#832190 08/10/04 11:02 PM
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Frank~

Thank you for your excellent advice and insight.

I must admit, I was a little nervous at first, thinking you knew my H personally or something, because you really nailed the situation. I couldn't figure out how you could do that by reading this one thread of mine. What you mentioned at the end answered my concern though. If you've read enough of my posts, you do kind of know my H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I guess carrying around my secret makes me a little paranoid, (some of my girlfriends on here are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> their eyes, shaking their heads, and asking, "A LITTLE ?????" ...they know me so well)!


I am having difficulty with what you mean by having deep sympathy for me. I do believe that's the strangest thing anyone on here has said to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not offended, not in the least, but how is it you have sympathy for me? I created the situation I'm in. Not only that, but I see myself as one of the "lucky" ones. For all intents and purposes, I've lived a charmed life since D-day. My M is long on the path to recovery. As you know, I have an awesome H, he accepted the baby from day one, long before the birth, (even knowing baby probably wasn't his, he thought I was sexy while P, all the while I felt ashamed for him to see me that way...how could I be so blessed to have such a H???), x-om is out of the picture, the baby is very healthy and good natured, etcetera, etcetera...Anyway, hope you're able to pop back in soon, and kindly explain your statement to my inquiring, (and sometimes, pea) brain. Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I checked out some of your prior posts. I believe you have a good handle on the issues surrounding infidelity and recovery. You should post more often, as you can be of much value to both the BS and WS.

I will try to be better at understanding where my H is coming from and putting myself in his shoes. It is the very least I can do, for all he has given and done for me.

~ad

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

#832191 08/10/04 11:43 PM
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AD~Not You--a little paranoid <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry to have missed you online.

#832192 08/10/04 01:30 PM
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Dear AD

You were surprised by my sympathy?
An A has powerful defining power. But so has your choice of actions when you come out of the fog/fantasy and face reality. And I think you have done very well in that regard.

Why do we like some people we meet? You were very open and honest and you shared your thoughts and feelings of shame, regret and guilt, and also your low self esteem at the time. I am not a WH, but I could very well experience what you felt like when I read your posts. You were one of the WW's that really opened my eyes to what it is like on that side of the coin. And later your wisdom in helping others have been enlightening to read.
I soon felt friendship with you. But I never felt I had anything to add to the excellent advice you received early on. There were two or three posters that followed you up quite well at that time (as I recall?). So I never posted to you. Being Norwegian writing and proof-reading English takes some time. And beeing accross the sea, I am on when all others are sleeping :-).

Like Just Learning, I came to MB with no infidelity in my own marriage. I should really belong in the EN board. My situation has improved by the way. For some reason I felt more at home in the infidelity boards. I began here in the PG/C board, and soon felt friendship with those that were around here at that time. They have now left all of them. (ca year 1999). Since then I have had periods when I have been much at MB and periods when I stayed away. I have later spent most time in "recovery" and the GII boards. I have a few times been able to help people. I can walk in other's shoes and feel their pain and sometimes that is a good starting point.

But when I come here I tend to spend far too much time. I believe there is addictive power here. This winter I had to decide to stay away so that my work should not suffer. I will now be careful for quite some time and not come here often.
God bless! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Frank57 ]</small>

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Yes, I was surprised, but now I think I understand.

I did receive some wonderful advice when I first came here, so lost. Once in a while I go back and read some of my original threads. I'm continually amazed at how strangers stepped out and helped me. It's also weird to see the names of the posters, cuz at the time, things were such a blur, that I didn't catch all the names. I'm eternally grateful to all them though. Besides great advice, Tigger also extended friendship to me, and we continue to be friends today. She made a blanket for the baby, how amazing is that?

I think you would've added a great deal, as I see you have the same type of wisdom as the afore mentioned JL. I understand though, and am glad you at least introduced yourself now.

I totally understand your reasons for staying away from the boards. My time for doing the same will come at some point too. It can be addicting, no doubt about that. You know, the longest I've gone without posting is 1 month, but besides when I first came here, I learned more in that month than any other time period. There is truth to the saying, wisdom comes from listening, (or however it goes). I read what people had to say, but forced myself not to post during that time. It's amazing what one can gain when they shut up and simply listen.

Thank you for the kind words and well wishes. I'm glad my story has helped you, even if in some small way. I can't tell you how much that makes my day! I stick around here, although at times it's painful to do so, because I have this great need and desire to "give back".

Take good care of yourself and your family.

~ad

<small>[ August 10, 2004, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>


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