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Joined: Mar 2004
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((SavingGrace)))

The thought process of the BS- amongst the hurt and pain, are not very understandable to anyone. The amount of turmoil your H is feeling now will swing from wanting to forgive to wanting to see you in pain-- 10 times a day at this point.

There is no way to force a BS in this much shock, into doing or feeling what you think he should. I am sure that he wants and wishes he could just be okay and stay with his family and you. May not show signs of it, but believe me he has them.

Nothing from the past can be changed at this point, so, there is only 2 things that CAN and hopefully will change your H's heart- TIME and GOD. He, like you were during the A, is in a deep fog that is masking his ability to do much that is sensible to the outsider. What he is doing seems very typical to me of the BS. He cares about you still in some kind of dutiful way-- but he is so betrayed right now that he cannot fathom loving you again. He also feels jusitifed in any actions he chooses-- even the ones you STRONGLY disagree with.

Your brother and SIL are there to confort him and he needs someone badly right now. Your H does not see or care if his support system is your family. I bet this actually makes him feel better knowing this is hurting you. The BS cannot see or begin to feel "sorry" for the WS's pain at this poing. That part will take time, and I pray that you dont destroy one another during that time.

I just wanted to first give you an idea of where you H's head is at. He has no head now-- and that is what you have to remember, SG!

Now, what you must do is PROVE PROVE PROVE, WITH YOUR FEELINGS ASIDE (just for now, sweetie) that you are changed, you love him and your family and that you will be steadfast in your promise to help him, you and your family heal. As the Bw, I have to say the #1 priority for me and the #1 healing method for me was when my H became a punching bag and a pillow to cry on -- with his needs aside-- with him making restitution to me in a completely humble way. Then I melted just enough to WANT to love him again.. and then I DID love him again.

I know you are extremely hurt, sad, confused and remorseful-- but your H needs to know that-- not just by words, but with time, actions and inquiry of his needs and his feelings WITHOUT LBing or without speaking of the past and the "why" you did it, etc.... know what I mean?

Now add a new baby and a little PPD in there-- and sweetie you are going to need God and all the strength you can muster up for your baby ! You have no easy task.

I think actions and time CAN change your H's heart! And if you need to deal with you and baby only (because H makes it impossible for you to talk to him at all, etc.)... then you do have to concentrate on you and your children.

THIS TOO SHALL PASS, trust God and his word!
God can move mountains- it is not your job to move them-- you pray and pray for God to help you PASS THROUGH the mountains with his SAVING GRACE! Great name.

Stick around here and I know PERSONALLY how lonely it was having no one to talk to-- it is so hopeless and makes you feel so insignificant, doesnt it? Well- I came here and sometims THAT is God's work ALSO! Seeking advice from "friends" who care more of the juicy story or have no real advice can steer you wrong! I believe God used this site to teach me things- to have others guide me in a way that I had NO idea an "internet" board could do????

Of course you are welcome here. You are in pain and you need some ((hugs))! We love and forgave our spouse for what they did- how can we as compassionate human beings condemn you?

p.s.-- have you tried writing your brother and/or husband a letter to convey your feelings in a true, clear, non LBing or interrupted manner? I have found this to be an awesome tool throughout my life with good results.

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Dear dear Grace~

First, I'm right there with everyone who said they wish they could reach out and give you a big hug. My heart literally aches for you Grace.

I don't want to give you false hope, but I do want you to try and concentrate on the good things your H has said and done, more than you concentrate on the negative, ok? I also detect in your statements, your H is trying desperately to communicate with you. He's trying to figure and sort out a lot of things. I'm quite certain he doesn't yet know what he wants. Divorce probably makes sense to him. Almost like, well of course I should divorce Grace--who wouldn't?, what else is there to do?, what other options do I have?... Here's the things you said, I think you should focus on. I think when you concentrate on positive things, it will also help you in your endeavor to NOT LB. It will help you in your own Plan A.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H said when I read the results and said she wasnt H's that his heart went out to her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You know H still has his wedding ring on. He says he justs wants me to be ok. He wants me to give the girls evrything I didnt have. He said we need to love them both. That's wierd he says that because he said right now he cannot be a father to her, well he said he couldnt say yes or no. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He does show quite alot of care for us both but no emotion behind it. He says I dont know how many times he's cried in the shower because he didnt know what to do anymore.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Grace, he is very conflicted. He's not making his decisions without care or concern for you the girls and himself. What do you say to him when he says he cries in the shower over not knowing what to do anymore? Honey, be happy when he shows care, even if you detect no emotion. Thank him without questioning the no emotion. Trust his positive actions, just as you wish him to trust yours.

I must say, I'm really disappointed in your brother and SIL and any friends who are abandoning you at this time. I understand that sin is far reaching, and affects even the people we don't directly sin against, but I wish they were able to separate this in their minds and be there for both of you.

However, just as you cannot control your H's actions, you cannot control theirs. IMO, family members and close friends should stay out of situations like this. Not taking any side whatsoever. Being there for support of BOTH the BS and WS, IF needed--otherwise, they should mind their own beeswax. Since it's not going that way for you, I'd just steer clear of them for now. Otherwise, it seems when you talk to them and emotions are high, the blame game starts up. They blame you for what you've caused--you blame them for not being there for you, and on it goes.

FTR, the whole thing with your SIL is still a big red flad, BUT try not to go there right now. Your H is going to do what he's going to do. You don't want to get in the blame game with him either. It sounds like unless there's more concrete evidence, he and everyone else will continue to throw your sins in your face, and make it look like you're trying to bring him down to your level to justify yourself, you know? I don't know what your brother is thinking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , but again, do NOT concern yourself with that right now.

Just continue to work on yourself. Consistency, consistency, consistency. Let your actions speak for themselves. Soon you won't have to assure your H he can trust you, because your actions will tell him.

Please don't isolate yourself Grace. Get out there, get involved in your church. Make some new friends. Reach out and do for OTHERS less fortunate than you--did you know that's one SURE way to get your thoughts off yourself and your troubles? Don't lose sleep over the people who have shunned you, and your DD. If they're true friends, they'll come around.

No need to apologize for not emailing me. Don't be silly. Trust me, I understand. But...lol, when you're able, please write <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . There's something personal I'd like to share with you, that I cannot do so here. Here's my address in case you lost it. aut_day@yahoo.com

Love,
~ad

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{{{{{{{{{{Grace}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
My dad has always had a saying. Love the sinner, hate the sin. I'm so sorry your going through all this. I agree with what has been told to you. I wish your b and sil would let you and h settle your own problems without getting involed. As you've been told this is how it is right now and you have to give this some time. I can imagine how your feelings though. Right now you have to take care of YOU so you can take care of your kids! Focus on that so your kids will be okay. Show your husband that you are climbing all those mountains and although hard..........YOUR DOING IT!!!! I'm praying for you! My heart just aches for you.

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Grace,

I am very sorry to hear this news. It obviously makes this much harder on everyone. However, I think you need to change a few things.

First you need to secure CS for you new baby. It is imperative that you take care of that child, and that requires action. Next, you don't have to give up your 3 year old because of this. So when the hearings come up state your case, and make your case.

What I am suggesting is that your H will see you in a different light as you begin to stand up for yourself. I don't mean fight and argue, that is bad. I mean have enough self respect NOT to fight but to be able to firmly state your goals: take good care of your children, be the person you know you can be, have boundaries with regard to how your H treats you, and be strong enough to be you.

He needs to see YOU. He does not need to see a "defeated woman". You are NOT DEFEATED do you hear me?? You now have two children to raise with or without his help or OM's help. Plan for doing that. Plan for your life and you just might find that your H will want to be part of it.

I am guessing but I think your H will let the divorce go through. I think it is a "face saving" strategy on his part. It also protects him financially with regard to you newest one. Hence show him he doesn't have to worry, make sure OM pays CS for HIS child. It will bring him into your life, but he is already with respect to your child. But, it might also show your H, that you will take on OM and fight him for what is right for you child.

As has been said your H is in the "worst" situation. This is every man's nightmare and I am sure he is no exception. I think there is something there, but what he needs to see is the YOU that inside. The person that you can be and will be no matter what he decides. The stronger you are the more attractive you will become.

So NO LB's, no arguing because there is no need to argue. Know your boundaries, have a plan for your life no matter what he decides, and begin to execute it. You can do this Grace, and if you do, you will be much happier for it, no matter what he decides.

Don't worry so much about his actions. They are what they are, and they don't make a lot of sense other than they are of a hurt man trying to regain his feet. He may or he may not you cannot help here. Please realize this. He MUST heal himself, you cannot help him in this regard. You can be nice, you can be pleasant, you can be remorseful, but you will do best when you realize that HE must work through this himself.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

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Afternoon friends~

I only have a few minutes but just want to let u know about last night and the night before.

We had the argument the other night about the sports show, he left with older dd to go to b and sil's house.

I went by a friends house to watch a movie and dinner, I did not call H at all to let him know or check in. He called me at 1130 when he got home to find out where I was. I didnt answer. I got home at 230. I fell asleep at friends.

I had to work at the salon on monday and H called me a 8. I missed the call. I called OM and asked if we could talk, we will have face to face on wednesday he doesnt want to do it over the phone, I asked him if he told his w, he said no. Called H told him, H apologized for mean and hurtful things he has been saying.

He called at lunch and I apologized for the mean and hurtful things I have been saying, we talked some and then let each other go.

I came home from work at 530 he brought home dinner and then the phone rang, it was my brother. I tried to talk but little dd was fussy so I told him id call back. Put big dd to bed and gave H little dd and called back. H wanted me to talk downstairs by him I said I wanted privacy. Went upstairs, got into a heated bad conversation with brother, H started yelling at me, I was crying, brother wanted to talk to h, h wouldnt. I said this is the exact reason why I asked to have a private conversation w/brother, face to face. B and I talked/argued more and I hung up telling him he had no sister. He called me back several times i hung up, called H to talk 2 me. H tried to relay message I wouldnt listen, H told brother to lv mesg on my cell and if I choose to call back then I do. H & I argued a little and suddenly something he said made me calm and scared and realize what I have been doing these past 2 years. Our conversation was the most civil it had ever been. I have been lying so much that I cant remember anything I tell people anymore. I make things up to make the bad things in my life better or cover them up or to make people have sympathy for me. Please dont think that I am lying to any of you, my intentions here have been clear. After the converstion with H my head finally felt clear, he said so many things to me that I was ready to hear now. He said he's been trying to tell me for so long and finally the way he said them to now clicked.

Long story short my brothers message said he wants to be here for me, he understands the r that h and sil have he pays the bills he sees the calls and if he finds nothing wrong with there relationship then I need to respect that. I called my b, I cried he listened and we both said so much, he said he was proud of everything I just finally admitted and blamed no one. He forgives me and understands there is a long road ahead of all of us. My sil did not however want my apology, b said she isnt ready yet. I said tell her what weve talked about and tell her i love her.

H went on sewer call during the conversation, when he came home he asked what we talked about, i told him. I told H i do not wnt him to end the r with them, i do not want him to be uncomfortable with me or around me, I understand what I need to do now and what I need to finally talk about in therapy. I asked them all to be very stren and trutful with me when the think I might be lying, they said they have all along. Now I know it will be different. Now Im ready to accept it, I am no longer on the defensive. I am able to move forward and be strong(er).

I here everything all of you have wrote, my children come first and yes OM will be rsponsible for this child and yes I will save my marriage and my H will see everything in me he should have seen a long time ago. I still want my b and sil to be Lindsey's godparents.

I want to write letters to all of my other friends, if they chose to forgive me then they do if they do not then I move on.

I feel really good today even thought there has been so many tears, the tears I cry now are finally of joy. This was only a little hill I know I have more mountains to climb.

I wil also be going to church on sunday, I keep saying it btu im not doing it. I will ask H to come with me, I will also ask H soon to mediation or come to my counselor, I ve been afraid to do that. Im not afriad anymore.

I go to therapy today so I will see how this session goes and decide after if i want to change.

I will let you ALL knwo later or tomorrow how it goes.

Love you ALL~SG

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PS Please pray for me now more then ever to make the most positive changes in my life that I will ever make and that I ask God to help me with them. That I finally ask for help and not try it on my own.

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Saving Grace,
I know you are sorry for what has happened and what you did in your life, But that in NO way means you have to tolerate disrespect and betrayel of your sister in law and husband. I am sorry but it is not appropriate for your husband to talk to your sister in law every single day.

He can do all that with a male friend. And How do you think affairs start? From two people becoming friends and confiding in each other. No one is above it, It can happen to any one.

Your sister n law should understand your concern and pull back. She isnt helping she is adding fuel to the fire.

I also see no reason you can not care for both your children, Children need their mother as much as they need a father. When You start becoming independent and show him You are sorry but still are an adult and not a doormat. Your husband will see things in a different light. Seems he and your sister n law are playing both you and your brother. Time will tell all. But in the mean time. Know that you are a strong woman who can make the best out of a bad situation.

Make sure you want om involved before you drag him into it. Know that it will come with its own set of issues that will have to be worked out.

Your marriage can still work out, but not with interference from outsiders. The only two people who should be involved are you and your husband.
It is so easy as a WS to just let every one run over them out of guilt. Easy for a bs to feel you should be punished for what has happened. But I promise you that isnt helping either of you.

I dont know if they still post but go back and find pops post and fullhouse , same situation, I believe he was going to leave and take the children. Read or maybe let your husband read his post, he came a long way and I learned alot from him.

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SG,
I cried when reading your first post on here. Just awful. I am so sorry. But I echo what JL is saying, as well as all the people who are telling you that your SIL and H's relationship is inappropriate. Your wrongdoing does not make theirs right!! THEY have to take responsibility for the crap they are pulling too. And I can't understand why your brother is being the way he is to you either. I am glad things have seemed to calm between you two but can't understand why your flesh and blood would even be a jerk to you in the first place.
Take care of yourself and your little ones.

HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
adgirl48

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Grace,

I notice that there seems to be a lot of arguing between you, H, your B, and SIL. That needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW. You need to start to act with GRACE. You can change the dynamics WITHOUT letting anyone run over you or disrespect you.

But, if you want respect, you need to start treating people with respect and arguing in not getting that done. It is time for a change. You have two children that need your care. You have a very hurt H, that needs to see changes in your behavior. There is NOT a single person in your life that you cannot positively affect IF you begin to act with GRACE. Respect yourself, and respect others, and you will start to see big differences in how they react to you.

Please think about this. This is NOT the time to be arguing with anyone, if ever there was agood time.

God Bless,

JL

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hi everyone~

sorry been busy, back to work

JL I do try really hard not to argue, so much so that the "grace" did prevail in that last show down.

Back at salon a couple of days so that where I've been.

Switching therapist, she cried again, that makes me uncomfortable, I cant deal with that.

As far as moving out, I have no choice the house is in his dad's name. I dont know what else to do.

Registered big DD for jr kindergarten, they say she is a little behind. I find that odd cuz she knows what a trapazoid and an octagon is, but I think maybe she's more adult then child.. Has to learn differences and balancing and not to draw stick people. I thought k was about playing and napping and art. What happened in 25 years???

Only had a few minutes I justed wanted u to know I'm ok. Adgirl and Autumnday I will try and email you later today.

SG

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A little behind??

Man oh man don't get me started. On the school stuff. We got a call from school because your youngest was a "moron" or something of the sort. It seems they were testing him in K and they asked him what color a banana was. He anwered "white". They asked him the coldest month of the year and he answered July. We live in the Bay Area and JULY is the coldest month of the year because of the fog.

It seems they had a problem with a kid that actually paid attention to the world around him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So don't worry about it, just look at these people and realize that if it is NOT in their book it just doesn't exist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Grace, continue to deflect the arguements and turn them into discussions. You do this by asking questions about statements they made: Why do you feel this way? What have I said that would make you think this? Then ask followup questions and gradually turn each potential arguement INTO a discussion. You don't have to agree with their point of view but make them state it and explain it. Until you can agree that you see their point, even if you don't agree with it.

Do you see what I am talking about. Have a good weekend.

God Bless,

JL

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JL~

What do you mean a banana isnt white? Just kidding, children like ours see the common sense and truth in things when we don't, funny hey.

I understand you point of turning the arguements into discussions, I think many of them have started as arguements but ended as discussions. Not to many but some.

Talked a little on wednesday w/om about our daughter. He doesn't want anything to do with her still, he wont even look at her. That makes more of a statement then he thinks, that shows me he knows he would love her if he just opened up to her. He had trouble w/his son in the begining and his mom said all you have to do is love him. That is what I ended the discussion with on weds, like you mom said about your son, "all you have to do is love her and everything else will make sense, maybe it might even lead you to make better decisions." H edidnt see it that way. He doesnt want to bring this shame to anyone in his family, he said it would kill the grandparents and parents, that they wouldnt understand. I told him to let them make the decision, dont make it for them. We ended without any answers as of yet. Thats fine with me we atleast talked. He wants adoption, I and my H say no way. Atleast my H agrees with me on something! And he couldnt say yes or no to being little dd's daddy.

I went to church today, it was a 2 hour service, I had both the girls by myself. I chose a perfect day to return to the church. It is Palm Sunday and I was born on Palm Sunday 32 years ago and my birthday falls on Easter this year, how wonderful that is. I was also baptized on Mother's Day so this one will be just as special with my 2 little blessings.

A friend of ours was having one of those candle parties today. I talked to H about the possibility of SIL being there and that I didnt want to be uncomfortable, or make her uncomfortable. My brother says I owe her and apology for the disrespect etc., I talked to H and said I wasnt ready to call her and that I didnt want the call to seem ungeniune or insincere because all I wanted to do was go to the party. He didnt understand that but it doesnt matter anyway, I understand. Still part of me wants to go but I know that not going is the right thing. Or atleast I feel that way.

Right now H has big dd visiting grandma and grandpa. Little dd is sleeping like a little princess, she is just more beautiful everyday.

SG

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