<BR>I will never be able to plan A the way I'm supposed to!!!!!!!!<P>I met H with the kids at the park. Everything was fine until he mentioned something about filing for divorce. I told him I wouldn't sign anything and he exploded. So.....having a slight temper of my own, I let him have a little of it back. I told him about how wonderful the OW was for threatening me and the kids, and how great she was with other men when he's out of town working, and what a great person she was since she had her children taken away from her...every wonderful and exciting thing I could think of. I told him it's pretty sad that he would choose to be with a woman who has said the horrible things about his children that she has. <P>He thinks the reason I won't sign any papers is because I'm playing some kind of game. I told him that the reason I won't sign is because I love him. I also told him that if I wanted to play that type of game, I could have already had her arrested for phone harrassment, and gotten a restraining order. I told him I could have done alot but I chose not to because I knew it would do me and him no good.<P>I can't believe I let him get to me this way. I was already feeling pretty bad because of V day and the 22nd will be the 14th anniversary of our first date. And I did apologize to him and tell him how bad I felt about these 2 days. He said he would call tomorrow.<P>If I can't get a handle on this plan a thing, I may have to go to plan b. <P>I called to set up an appointment with Steve Harley, I'm hoping he can give me some hope and good advice. <P>This sucks!!!!!!!

Oh Mitzi!<P>It is so hard isn't it? I'm the worst at plan A and you can't take that away from me....I also just can't seem to keep my mouth shut. It sounds like you had just had enough and needed to let off steam. I understand that, but you're right, I'm sure he was put on the defensive. How long have you been in Plan A? <P>I vacilate between wanting to plan A and not wanting to have anything more to do with him too. Email me if you want, okay?<P>

Mitzi, honey, I did this too! Remember? We all lose it once in a while. Just go back to Plan A, and Pray Pray Pray! We're here for you.<P>Love to you,<P>Aw

Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A the way you're suppose to<P>Mitzi can plan A [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] the way you're suppose to<P><BR>sending lots of help to you... [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]<P>Keo<P>P.S. RC, you can too!!!<P>

Mitzi, it's ok. We all open our big mouths every once in a while, and while I believe avoiding LBs is the right thing to do I'm not completely certain that it isn't ositive to let go every once in a while. Just don't worry about it and keep focused on your goals.<BR>By the way, my h's ow also had her children taken away from her and given to the xH - which in itself shows something about who and how she is, since children are usually given to the mother -, and my H wasn;t able to see anything starnge about it either.<BR>In any case, the danger in talking without thinking first is that most times we have a tendency to attack and many times attack the op, which is a mistake because at that point our spouses will take that attack very personally and will defende the op no matter what, and get pretty mad at us in the process. However it's done, and you shouldn't be worrying about that on top of everything else, there's nothing you can do to take it away and who knows, maybe some of what you said will eventually sink in.<BR>Just keep your plan A as if nothing happened and don't touch the subject again unless he does. <BR>Also, make sure that you remember to take some time to relax a bit, do something that makes you feel good and calm, and treat yourself to something. Plan A is hard work, you need some relaxing time or something that you enjoy to recharge.<BR>As for your outburst, don't think about it anymore, if things work out with you and your H, fine, if they won't believe me it won't be because of this incident.<BR>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Hey Mitzi,<P>My Son, the college boy, tells me all the time that if it felt good to say it was probably not such a good idea to verbalize the thought. What the hell does he know, damn kid. <P>I, on the other hand, believe it is better to speak a LB than to shoot them [S] point blank in the head, twice. That's only me. I have a gun. Well, not with me, but, I know where I can get one.<P>We will all get through this. One way or another I will sit my fat [censored] down on Va Beach for retirement in the next 5 years.<P>Have Sulu put the shields up. It's ashame we have to regress to kindergarten and play these games.<P><P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

RC,<BR>I've only been trying to plan A since the end of December. Only about 6 weeks I think. I had been doing good for a couple of weeks but I hadn't actually seen him in 3 weeks, only talked to him on the phone. I guess seeing him kinda did me in. I'm on my way out the door, but I'll email you when I get back.<BR>Thanks!<P>MTAW,<BR>It is so hard to not mess up. Of course, I know you understand. I'm beginning to wonder if it's all worth it though.<BR>Thanks!!<P>Keosha,<BR>Keep sending the smilies my way. They actually helped!!<P>Kat,<BR>I'm hoping some of what I said will sink in. He wants some proof of some of the things she said. I won't offer it but I'll give what I can if he asks again. I did remind him of our 14th anniversary coming up. He said "and we have a wedding anniversary in July" Of course, I'm hoping he'll be here for that. <BR>I'm heading to my mother in laws to vent some more. She's been so great thru all of this.<P>Tim,<BR>Thanks for the humor (I'm hoping that's what it was LOL)!!<BR>I agree. LBing once in a while is better than physical violence. Believe me, I've wanted to beat some sense into his head for a while now. <BR>Yeah, we will make it no matter what. And I think we'll all be the better person in the relationship because of it.<P>Thanks guys!!!

Mitzi,<BR>I am another plan A flunkie...My H came home after our seperation and I still catch myself LBing. I should just be happy he is here. So I know all about losing it and you know that you will be in my prayers. Hang in there!<P>Stac<BR><P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <A HREF="http://journeys.webprovider.com" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <P> <P>

Hey Mitzi,<P>If this woman has threatened your children, and you, then a serious line has been crossed. I just posted something that you might find relevent...<P>You should probably work on your temper, but some things are acceptable and somethings are not. And there's nothing wrong with standing up for your beliefs!!! <P>In anycase, in the future, remember... people don't hear you any better when you raise your voice- in fact all that they hear is that your voice is raised and that actually can distract them from your message, if you get my meaning. Be firm, but be so with the quite confidence of one with stregnth.<P>Deut

Stac,<BR>Thanks for the prayers. If it wasn't for prayers I think I would have lost it a long time ago. Maybe I'll become the perfect plan A'er!!!!<P>Deut,<BR>Actually I just read your post. Very helpful in my case. <BR>Actually for as mad as I was, I didn't raise my voice too much since we were in a public place. I could have yelled a lot louder. Everything I said though was an attack on the OW to him. Not the right thing to do. This is supposed to be between he and I, but when he started seeing her, that made her part of it. And when she calls and threatens and hangs up like a little teenager (she's in her 40's), that makes her even more a part of it.<BR> <BR>But it doesn't get me anywhere to tell him this stuff. He thinks I'm a "lying psycho b***h". He wants proof of the stuff she does. <P>Has anybody ever followed the OP to prove that they aren't the angel your spouse thought they were? I'm seriously considering it. My mom said she would let me use her car since OW doesn't know what it looks like. Even if he wouldn't come home, if he was away from her, it would make my job easier.<P>Hmmmm, got any advice on that????<BR>

Mitzi,<BR>Okay....I am a Plan A flunkie too. I have heard this before, but I will say it again....sometimes I wonder why it is us who have to be so nice and wonderful all the time. Why it is "us" who have to bite our tongue? I know, because we want our marriage to work....but heck, sometimes we have to let them know just how hurt we are. I agree with Duet though, don't scream. I am not saying you did, but when I talk in a soft voice he seems to listen more. Not that we talk anymore though LOL.<P>To all:<BR>Please don't think that when a woman loses her children through divorce that it is her fault. Look at me....I am losing them and I did nothing wrong except love my H. It is all just a sick game that men seem to play and that courts seem to listen to.<P>Nancy

Nancy,<BR>I definatley do not think you may lose your children because you are a bad mother. Your H is just being a jerk. I've followed your posts and cannot believe how awful things are going for you.<P>The OW in my case, did lose her children in a divorce, but she was/is a heavy drug user and neglected her children because of her lifestyle. <P>I found out the difference in how they listen to your tone of voice. 3 weeks ago, my H was here at the house. I held his face in my hands and spoke to him almost in a whisper. I told him that I love him so much and that I want my family back. He asked why I would want him to come home. I again told him that I still love him with all of my heart. He actually got tears in his eyes. So next time, I will become the whisperer! LOL<P>Good luck to you Nancy,<BR>Mitzi

Mitzi,<BR>I am no psychic....but I do have/get these preminitions sometimes. Ever since I read your first post...I have had strange feelings. I know...sounds just like my name...Mental. But I have always been this way. Keep on working.....I feel it will pay off. I have only been wrong once. Of course that would be with me LOL.<BR>Nancy <P>PS...Don't laugh<p>[This message has been edited by MENTAL (edited February 12, 2000).]

Nancy,<BR>I definately DO NOT think you are mental. My mother has a similar gift. She dreams about babies. And is 53 yrs old and has never been wrong. She knew I was pregnant with my 2nd son before I did. And she dreams the sex of the child. It's usually about family and close friends but she's never been wrong. Myself I can look at a pregnant woman and tell the sex of the baby. <P>I hope you are not wrong for a 2nd time. Maybe that's the incentive I need to plan A really hard. <P>And maybe you aren't completely wrong about yourself. If he's not with anyone, maybe there is a chance for you two, once he calms down and realizes what he's doing. Ya never know!!<P>Thanks again,<BR>Mitzi

I know what you mean here. I don't think OW threatened me, but her friends and family decided it was their duty to drive me crazy and did some unbelievable things! H didn't believe me, he wanted proof.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B><P> <BR>But it doesn't get me anywhere to tell him this stuff. He thinks I'm a "lying psycho b***h". He wants proof of the stuff she does. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This might be a great idea! You could gather evidence to use in child custody/visitation. If H is living with her and she is unfit to associate with your children...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B><BR>Has anybody ever followed the OP to prove that they aren't the angel your spouse thought they were? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I saw that on a movie once about how a woman started a career as a P.I. by spying on her H. It was a true story.<P>

Keosha,<BR>Thanks for the reply. I don't think I've ever seen the movie. <BR>I'm seriously considering goig out a couple of nights this week to see what I can dig up. H is out of town during the week so he won't see me doing it. I've even thought of calling the other men that she's running around with and getting info from them. (I know 2 of them). Sounds pretty pathetic doesn't it?

(((((((((((((((Mitzi))))))))))))))<P>Hang in there girl! I'm praying for you!

Mental, I am so sorry. I generalized when I shouldn't have done. In fact my H's ow didn't loose her kids trough divorce. The kids were given to her by the court when the divorce happened. They were taken away later because people complained about the way she was treating them. She was warned about it, she had social workers helping and only after the problems kept happening and the girls had to run to a neighbour's house did they take them from her. I should have explained this, since I do know that sometimes it is not the case.<BR>I'm sorry .......<BR>Mitzi, the problem with wanting to expose the op is that our spouse will have a tendency to be biased at this point and any information about her coming from you will be taken as an attack to separate them, not as a fact. The best way would be let him find out by himself, and he will ,but it might take time. In some cases, like my H for instance they even kind of know. MY H didn't even like her before the affair started.He isn't a judgemental person and rarely makes comments about anybody, nevertheless, before the affair - maybe a year before - he kept coming home upset because "this woman at work" kept hiting on his guys while they were working, and "couldn't she at least wait for their brakes?"..However, when the affair happened he promptly forgot all that. There was no point on reminding him of it, he knew, it was just suppressed.<BR>Also very important, in my opinion, is trying to keep the ow out when you are stating any problem. Do not attack her, most of the times it has the reverse effect. Attack the situation that is causing the problem, discuss the problem. Don't bring her into it, unless she personally contact you and you have are complaining about that particular problem.As I said, they feel they have to defend the op person at this point, and they will rationalize that you are just saying that because you want your spouse back, not because it's true.<BR>Hugs<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited February 13, 2000).]

Kat is right. If you dig up the dirt on OW, H will only rush to her side to defend her. I would go ahead and dig up all I can find, but not give the information to H. Give the information to your lawyer to use in court (if it comes to that). <P>This information will be good for child custody and visitation. <P>If this woman is a bad or dangerous influence on your children, then you have the right and obligation to protect them from her influence.<P>I wasn't smart enough to think of this when my son was young. The judge ordered visitation when son was 9 years old. (X H had not seen him since he was 1 year old) I hated the idea as it was creating trouble for us at home. But, I had to let him go or be in contempt of court. <P>To make a long story short, my son witnessed XH's new wife drunk and laying around the house wearing nothing but a bra, he witnessed many other things. My son is 19 now and tells me that he had some very destructive experiences during those visitations. I wish I had been smart enough to investigate and use the information to stop and prevent the damage that was being done to that young mind. This continued for 4 years until X got tired of the kid being in his way. Then he dropped any interest and even signed papers forfiting his parents rights. But, the damage had been done. My son is still in treatment to get his life straightened out.

Mitzi...<P>There was lovebusting, but you just get right back up and try harder. It's hard to not lovebust under the circumstances.<P>I'm praying for ya...