Thanks for the advice! It is hard to know what to do in some situations.<P>AZ: A short history...My H is involved in an<BR> EA (since December, I found out in January)with his secretary so they see each other everyday. In the past they have gone out together during work and even traveled together when he was on official state business and she had the day off! He seems to think that no one would find this 'obvious', but I do know that people in the office have discussed their behavior and suspect that they are involved. He told me that they did not want to hurt their families but wanted to spend as much time together as possible. Needless to say I said no way and he got very angry for awhile.<P>Most recently my H has told me he is transferring to a different office and is going to remove her from his life completely and forever for me.<P> As I said, we have been talking A LOT and opening up with each other about past and present situations and emotions that led us to this point. My H has a hard time though believing that I am sharing my deepest feelings with him, and I can understand that and know that it will take time. He says that it is a matter of trusting someone enough to open yourself up like that, and I hope that eventually he will realize that that is just what we have been doing. Being open and honest and trusting the other person not to judge, but to listen and try to understand, and help each other through all the difficult self discovery.<P>The newest thing is that he thinks I should see a counselor by myself to determine if he is the man I should be married to, if he can really meet my needs. I know that he is, but he seems to need the reassurance of someone who should 'know'. Is this a common feeling?<P>for 2S4W: I try to remain unemotional, or at least non confrontational when we talk, but now it is is my H, who told me once that he couldn't cry anymore, who is being VERY emotional. He is near tears everytime we talk. His emotions are very near the surface and I can see that he is going to go through a very tough withdrawal period...it started a few weeks ago when they decided to separate from each other. He seems to feel the need to talk to me more and more and has started to reach out to me physically, hugs...holding my hand etc that he quit doing some time ago. I try to listen and respond calmly and let him know that I understand. <P>I also sent him an email the other day that said that even though sometimes the things he told me hurt me I was glad that he felt he could trust me enough to tell me how he felt and that I appreciated his honesty with me. That I always try to understand and see things from his perspective.<P>I know that during this time I have to be very loving and supportive no matter what comes out of his mouth, and I find that easy to do because I do love him very much. But I also need to share my deep feelings with him. Is this going to overload his system? or will it make him feel better that I am still sharing with him? <P>I am also concerned because recently he has made some comments about finding peace in death and in reading some past journal entries he has said outright that the only option left him was death. This is all piling up on him, because now he seems to know that he has to leave the OW completely and has to deal with that, plus he feels responsible for hurting me and the kids.I can see how depressed he is becoming, how do I get him to go see a doctor without looking pushy? <P>This is not going to be easy for awhile is it? I didn't expect that it would be but it seems like there are more and more issues to deal with that I never thought of. I am glad that I can ask my questions here where there are so many that can share their experiences with me.<P>

Victoria,<P>Good for you guys for opening up the communication. I don't know if going to a counselor would help, but I've gotta say, a lot of men would not even think that way, so good for him. I think I'd go and see someone if I were you. Your H seems to be trying really hard to rebuild your trust. His transferring offices is a huge step!<P>Do you feel like your H is meeting your needs? Did you gys to the Emotional Needs Questionaire? I'd love to do that with my H, but know he would laugh if i brought it up. He is one of those men that is NOT into any of the books or columns that help people in marriage crisis. How about a session with one of the Harleys. I'm tempted to do that one myself. So many here have really gotten their questions answered by doing that.<P>Our stories are very similar Victoria. My H has not admitted to any kind of an affair, just that this woman he works with is a very close friend of his and she really likes me too (gag). Now I hear last night that all the agents at his office have another 4 day business trip next month. This includes my H and his "friend". But, I did well, said nothing...there is not a thing I can do about it anyway.<P>Sorry to go on and on. Just wanted to say that it does sound like your H is concerned about what your needs are. This has got to be a great sign for you. Keep talking, it's easy to go into withdrawl. I'm afraid that's where wer'e heading.<P>allison<BR>

Victoria,<P>Yeah, he is a total mess emotionally and mentally right now. And it is not surprising - hie is at the center of a swirling mass of needs, desires, obligations, moral imperatives, etc. His emotions are in conflict with his conscience. <P>He is seeking the path of least resistance - first in cultivating an inapproproate relationship outside your marriage instead of working at fixing your marriage. That is now a conflict ridden situation, so now death looks easier. <P>You both need counseling to help your relationship. He needs counseling to figure out why he feels compelled to find the path of least resistance. He even wants a third party to help you decide if he is the man you should be married to? Get this man some help.<P>You guys are talking and sharing your feelings with each other, so you are a lot farther along than many of us here - It is a good start. Get some professional help to keep you on the right path and maybe speed the process up a bit. And keep up the good work. You are doing great.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

We have been seeing a counselor for about a month now, once a week. It seems that when we are there most of the attention is focused on my H. I think that it is partly because I have taken so much time to explore myself and past behavior and why/how things happened that it is easier for me to answer questions or explain things whereas my H has just started to do that. <P>The emotional needs survey is a touchy subject with me as my H had a copy of it that the OW gave to him! They apparently did it together at one time and that was how they decided how very compatible they were and how uncompatible they were with their respective spouses. She even went so far as to give my H a copy of S.A.A. for him to read (he did not do it) which he in turn passed along to me. Apparently neither of them read it very carefully! We have discussed needs and we are very similar, it has been the meeting them that has been lacking in some respects.<P>I would like for H to explore HIS emotions further, not just present but past as well as I think that he may have depressed for most of his adult life. He thinks that I need to do the same, but won't acknowledge that HE needs any further help. He has always been that way, I am the one with the problems. That may be the case, but I have been working very hard to identify and address them, and I have been brutally honest in asking/answering hard questions and I think am making real progress. I am able to share so much more with him because of it and I think that he does appreciate that fact.<P>With the inevitable emotional turmoil, I am concerned that he will not be able to handle it. How can I approach this subject with him tactfully without sounding like I am telling him he is crazy?<P>

Victoria,<P>Are you sure we're not married to the same man? LOL. I don't think my H's EA went as far as your H's did, but I went through his cell phone bills yesterday and WHAM! HE HAS TWO WOMEN FROM WORK HE CALLS CONSTANTLY...AND THEY CALL HIM!!!<P>I am still reeling from the fact that now I have two women to deal with rather than one. He swears (and, call me crazy, I believe him) that these women are freinds and he has needed them to talk to when he could not talk to me about our marriage problems. He knows that this is a wrong thing to do, and says he will cool it. Boy the trust factor here is about zero these days. I know others here will tell me I'm nuts to believe him. I told him it is still and EA he is having, which is just as bad as a PA.<P>Victoria, these men are depressed, but if your H is anything like mine, he does not want to go to a therapist and be given drugs. He thinks things will just work themselves out one way or another. I guess others here think we're probably lucky to at least have our H's still at home with us, but it is getting hard. I've been tempted to ask him to leave until this mess is straightened out, but keep reading on this forum not to do that!<P>My H recently encouraged me to go to counseling also, and I went to my Church today and left a message with one of the counselors there. We did go to a few sessions with a Marriage Counselor, but he was just not the right one for us.<P>I cannot believe that OW gave your H the Emotional Needs Questionnaire...!!! I guess that would be a touchy subject between you guys now! It's too bad that she ruined what could be a good tool for you both to use.<P>Wish I could help more Victoria. Hope you find this post.....Allison<P>

Allison,<P>Thanks for the suggestions and thoughts...Discussing marital problems! Seems that is a pretty common item when we ask out spouses how this happened...they just needed to talk to someone. In an office full of men there was only ONE person my H 'could'talk to...the only woman there! I think that part of it was convenience...she was there, he did not have to go 'looking'. But now he says that he knows he should have talked to me and tried to work on our problems instead of involving another woman. <P>So in your case I would say, TALK,TALK,TALK to your husband. If he is not willing to talk to you, then you do the talking. Let him know that you realize that there are things that you can work on in your relationship and share YOUR feelings with him. If nothing else he will see that you are sharing yourself with him and that will hopefully lead him to opening up with you more instead of sharing your problems with other women, and most of all don't give him the impression that you are blaming him for things, be willing to share the responsibility with him.<P>I bought a book that has really helped, and I am not real big on self help stuff, but I recommend this one..Relationship Rescue by Phil McGraw..won't be hard to find it is plastered up everywhere! It is focused on you and how you have influenced what has happened in the relationship. It is not saying that you are only at fault, just says that whatever has happened you did play a role in it and if you can see what/how your behavior has been, you can change it to contribute to instead of contaminate your future life. In doing all the self-examination I have discovered a lot of things that I did that made my H absolutely miserable, but we both internalized a lot of it under the guise of not wanting to hurt each other instead of talking about it and working out a solution together. I have been sharing all this with H and he told me that he is happy that I am doing all this and sharing it with him. WOW, some success at last. He also said that he just can't renew our relationship until he is sure that I AM the person he sees. He doesn't want to have anymore surprises, he wants to get what he sees and know that it is real. I can't fault him for that, I think that is what we all want and need..to have that kind of security with our mates. This coming from a man that told me point blank that he thought our marriage was over and that he did not want to try anymore! Be a contributer...it is VERY hard sometimes but in the long run it is worth it. <P>As I said in a previous post...I can't predict the future...things look better now than they did...but even if things don't work out I have learned a lot about myself, have made improvements and know that I have a lot to offer in a relationship.

Victoria,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I can't predict the future...things look better now than they did...but even if things don't work out I have learned a lot about myself, have made improvements and know that I have a lot to offer in a relationship<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>AMEN TO THAT! <P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

Hi again Victoria,<P>Thanks for answering my post, I thought it might get lost since your original thread was posted several days ago. <P>Before I logged on today I had spent several hours (waiting for the TV repair guy. GRR) and reading Dr. Phils book, Relationship Rescue. I bought it when it first came out but put it aside as it looked like a book that only a couple could really do together. As I mentioned my H is not into self-help stuff. Well, I was feeling so down about all these phone calls I discovered, and feeling more convinced by the moment that he is still not being honest about the extent of these relationships at work that I picked up that book today and started again.<P>Victoria, I don't mean to make this a thread about only my problems. I wanted to ask you...was your H always enthusiastic about going over books like this with you? I was thinking of buying my H a copy the book today and slipping it into his breifcase. Would this be pushy? teaching behaviour? I just don't know how long his present state of mind will last. He has never, before a few days ago, agreed to "work" on our marriage, and I don't know if this is an opportunity to push this sort of information, or if I should just let it rest.<P>I am glad you are also getting so much out of Dr. Phil's book. I think it's easy to understand and written with a lot of humor. I'm surpised it isn't mentioned more around this forum.<P>It's good to see you and H doing so well, and good to see that you don't have a lot of pent up resentment...maybe you can teach me that little trick. Learning about ourselves is the best way to attack these problems. I think I'm on the right road, just a few steps behing you.<P>thanks for your time and help.<BR>allison