Went to Alanon just sat and listened. It was comforting to know that there are many others in the same boat so to speak as I am. I do wonder if my H sudden loss of loving feelings for me is due to the alcohol or the OW. The OW is supposedly out of the picture but my H continues to tell me he cares but his feelings aren't the same for me as they were when we first got married. <P>Is this the alcohol talking or the OW talking or do you think he actually fell out of love with me. He says it is due to the number of years that he wasn't happy in our marriage and I didn't show him enough caring etc. But he never said he wasn't happy or asked me to be more loving. <P>He also says he still wants a divorce because he feels different and things could never be the same. If he truely wants this then why doesn't he do the paper work needed to proceed?????<P>Well just an update and a question.....there is another meeting on Monday night too.

bc:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Is this the alcohol talking or the OW talking or do you think he actually fell out of love with me. He says it is due to the number of years that he wasn't happy in our marriage and I didn't show him enough caring etc. But he never said he wasn't happy or asked me to be more loving.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My H is a recovering alcoholic. Recovering since dday of his A. In our situation my H was not too heavily involved with OW, in fact, he was trying to get out of it when I found out. However, I find that mostly what went wrong before dday was all the alcohol. It was talking, and it was talking loud enough to drown out any sane thing that came along.<P>My H never said that he actually fell out of love for me, however, he never realized to what extent he DID love me until he sobered up. Today is 15 weeks for dday, tomorrow is 15 weeks for his sobriety. I think the A made him hit rock bottom, and he described it like he needed something to make him hit that low before he came back to reality.<P>We've been in counseling ever since, once a week. Before dday he never "believed" in counseling, now he can't get enough of it.<P>I feel for you, I really do. I've been following your story for some time. I've just been in lurkdom for awhile.<P>Unfortunately, he is not going to realize what he's losing or has lost, until he hits that rock bottom state. I don't know what it's going to take for him to get there, but that's what needs to happen before you guys can move on. I really believe that if my H hadn't stopped drinking, we would have been divorced by now. <P>I think when your H says he wasn't happy in "our marriage", I just think he isn't/wasn't happy with himself. Alcohol can do so much damage emotionally. Who can be happy when they're not in reality at least most of the time? It just can't be good for the soul. Alcoholics are master manipulators as well. They can turn things on you in a heartbeat. The worst part is that we actually start believing we're the problem. <P>It's good that you're going to Al Anon. I commend you for that. I should have been going for years, but I never had the guts to go. <P>I've done enough rambling, and I don't know if this helped you at all. But, we're here for you, this place....if it wasn't for me stumbling upon this place, I think I'd be on the road to divorce. There were a few different avenues that we could have taken. I chose the only one I saw that would keep us together, and this place was the glue. Every other avenue had that "D" word at the end of the line.<P>So, even though we're in recovery, I keep coming back everyday. To see how people are progressing, and if there's anyone out there going through the same things as me.<P>Hang in there bc. You will get through this. And you are stronger than you realize. Do what's best for you. Do what's in your heart. You are in my thoughts and prayers.<P>--purplemag

Purplemag<P>Thanks so much for the response. I know that many people say he has to hit rock bottom before he will want to change. Right now he does admit at times he has a drinking problem, not that he is an alcoholic but has yet to do anything about it. <P>I just can't seem to agree that overnight his feelings for me can change so dramatically even though he said it has been years coming. Funny he never complained about the marriage in the past years until this past summer. (the drinking got worse and the OW came along)<P>I guess at this point anything I say to him will fall on deaf ears because he hasn't his his rock bottom. In my heart I don't want this divorce but I can't continue to live the h*** I have been in the past eight months. Our house means alot to him because he built it and I think the thought of losing it might wake him up but then again I don't want him to stay because of a house now do I.<P>I pray to God everyday that he will help me and help my H to see what he is doing &himself and his life and our marriage.<P>Thanks for the support. I really need it.

bc:<P>Oh, how our little tangled webs compare to one another. I take it your H is in the construction business, seeing that he built your house. My H is too. And the alcohol is rampent in the construction business (which is kind of scary isn't it!?).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just can't seem to agree that overnight his feelings for me can change so dramatically even though he said it has been years coming. Funny he never complained about the marriage in the past years until this past summer. (the drinking got worse and the OW came along)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>EXACTLY MY END TOO!!! My H started drinking so much after he got involved with the OW he definitely was not the person I married. I know I married a person with a drinking problem, but it got way out of hand. And, he was drinking so much, because he didn't want to face the reality of what he was doing and what it could do to us. To the point where he started drinking at 10AM, go to the bar for lunch (not eat), go to the bar after work, come home and pass out. At least she got to see him awake!<P>Anyways, you're right with the part about whatever you will say will fall on deaf ears. My H had those deaf ears for 6 years. And it took this to have him hear again.<P>Again, bc, I'm here for ya. I know what you're going through. <P>I wish I could make it all go away for you. I really do. My heart aches for your pain, it really does. <P>--purplemag<p>[This message has been edited by purplemag (edited May 05, 2000).]

Purplemag<P>Our stories do sound so familiar. My H does work construction and always seems to have to have a few beers after work with the guys. But it just seemed to snowball and a few became an all night out and then back to work the next day and out again the next night. <P>He met the OW in the bar and she drinks right along with him unlike me. I also knew when I met and later married him that he liked to drink socially but over the years it continued and we really didn't do much that I enjoyed. I resented him for being out with the guys in the bars and he got mad at me for nagging him or following him to the bars and saying something in front of his friends. This whole thing I think snowballed and then BOOM OW comes along, she is having marital problems he thinks he is having marital problems and well you know the rest.<P>But to have him almost blame me for not filling his needs over the years I can't believe I actually was that rotten. I told him noone is perfect and we are suppose to learn from our mistakes and have second chances but he just doesn't see it that way.<P>It may just be his way of justifying to himself what happened and he doesn't want to try to work on things because he can't stop drinking. He even said his drinking has nothing to do with it. I didn't even respond to that. <P>I just have a feeling that if we divorce six months or a year down the road he will finally wake up and realize what he has given up and maybe by then I will have moved on with my life and it will be too late. In a way I wished I hated him for what he has done to me but I continue to love him and that is the hardest thing to deal with.

The alcohol makes everything look askewed to the alcoholic. Their problem is compounded by the alcohol and they do things they would never do if they remained sober.<P>Keep going to Alanon because it will make you look at yourself, help you take care of yourself, and give you the tools you need to deal with the problem and teach you how to react and behave so the alcoholic will look at you, your marraige, and most importantly, at himself in a different light. <P>If you get the serenity that Alanon can give you, your attitude will be changed, your lightheartedness will be infectous to him. He will see you as confident, happy and pulled together and non-reactive and it will gain peace of mind for yourself. You will be more attractive to your spouse-he may want what you have gained. <P>Your spouse may want that serenity for himself and do something about his drinking.<P>Wonderful changes happen through Alanon.<P>Prayers<P>catnip =^^=

bc:<P>Gosh, the more I hear, the more I feel like I'm reading my own words. H didn't meet OW at the bar, but that's where they spent most of their time together. She would drink right along with him. I don't drink at all. Everything you've described describes us to a T. Scary. <P>Is he still seeing the OW? Sounds like he's still knee-deep in fantasy territory. Even without an OW to an alcoholic, they can keep most everything in a fantasy land. <P>As catnip suggested, keep going to Al Anon. You will get stronger with them at your side. And, hopefully, what catnip says, he will see the change in you and want to be like that, and want to be with you again.<P>He's hiding from himself. He's hiding from his guilt and shame over what he's done, and most importantly, he's hiding his alcoholism.<P>I know what you mean about getting divorced and what happens if he changes some time down the road. That's partly why I never went through with a divorce. I prayed for two years for something like the A to happen. So I would have a "real" excuse to leave him (like alcoholism isn't enough). Well, be careful what you wish for. It got dropped like a ton of bricks right into my lap.<P>But, as odd as this is to say, it's the best thing that could have ever happened to us. I hope sooner rather than later, your H realizes what he's doing to himself and to you. And, it's never too late.<P>I think he feels so guilty about everything, that's why he's laying blame on you. Seems after reading everything on this web site that that is a typical response from a WS. Especially typical from an alcoholic too.<P>If you ever want to email me personally, email me at purplemag@aol.com. It's such a hard situation. Having the beer thrown in with the mix just makes it harder for us.<P>I wished I could hate my H too, but I couldn't. I just couldn't. There's reasons why we stay, God has something in store for us. Something we're supposed to learn from all this.<P>I learned that I am a stronger person for staying. For sticking to my guns when it came right down to it. And I learned, that my H, is a very wonderful person without the OW and alcohol. You'll find it. You'll get there.<P>--purplemag<BR>

Purplemag,<P>Well supposedly he isn't seeing the OW any longer. He told a mutual friend of ours and myself that he told her he didn't want to see her anymore. He told our friend that it wasn't worth it any longer. I am not sure what that means, but I thought maybe it was a sign he wanted to work on our marriage. Guess not he still insists we should just get it over with.<P>Our stories sound all too familiar except your H has hit rock bottom and is climbing back up and mine has yet to reach it. I think he is trying to turn the tables at everything I say so he won't have to feel any guilt for what is happening. Like I filed for the divorce and he has refused to contact his lawyer to fill out the paperwork I need to continue. Why is it if he wants this sooooo bad he won't do anything to help it along.<P>I told him that I wasn't going to do everything. Another way of throwing the blame my way. Every time we try and talk about our marriage he tells me how long it was that he was unhappy and I wasn't giving him the attention and love he needed. Well why didn't he say something. Maybe it was because he was never home and always out with his friends drinking. It is all an illusion he is making himself believe in and probably before he comes out of the fog it might be too late.

bc:<P>Well, IMHO you don't really want the divorce, right? I know you're thinking about it pretty heavily, but because the decision is so very hard for you, I know you still love him, or else you wouldn't be here trying to save your marriage. <P>He's the one who wants it, so let him be the one to put in in motion. It's the enabler in us to take care of everything for them. Don't do it this time.<P>Try not to take the blame to heart. I know it's so very hard not to, because the crap that comes out of their mouths is so hurtful. He's not talking rationally. It's the alcohol.<P>This Plan A stuff...as good as it is to be able to implement it to be able to do the "love deposits" in their love banks, it's also a very good tool to learn about yourself. I think that combined with the Al Anon will mold you into a person that he will admire and truly want as his W. And, maybe, just maybe, that'll be the kick in the ol' pants he needs. To see that you can live and become stronger on your own.<P>My thoughts are with you this weekend, bc. <P>--purplemag

Hi BC -<P>GOOD FOR YOU on taking this first step with going to the Al-Anon meeting!!! You get an ATTAGIRL!!!!!<P>See, it wasn't so bad....glad that you can see that there are others in the same sort of circumstance. Those people, along with us here are all there for you. Listen, learn, apply yourself and allow yourself to feel a part of huge family that help each other!!<P>Are you starting to see that you aren't going to get far with just talking? I hope so!!!! You have to take some positive steps with your behaviors. Are you ready to start doing that yet?<P>Your H has told you different things that he feels is lacking. Granted they are pretty vague, but perhaps he has mentioned some specifics that you just haven't written here. He felt that you didn't show too much care to him....what do you think he means? Any ideas at all? What we want to do is to eliminate these things and give him hope that they are no longer a problem.<P>I know that he didn't tell you all this then...they often don't!!! But he IS telling you now.......<P>So, what are you going to do about it? I am sure that we can figure out what improvements you can make to help with this. Think on it some and let us know and we will guide you. None of us are perfect and we all need to make changes to bring out our potential.....it's called growing!!!!!!<P>Let's start with this weekend. What plans do you have? Are you hanging at home? Will H be around at all? What can you do that would make you feel good about yourself? Is there something that you can do that would include H?<P>What did you guys do for fun or closeness when you were dating?<P>Nevermind talking....I think you need to rest this topic - at least until he can see, taste, hear, smell, etc. that life is getting better at home just by your behavior and attitude!!!<P>Big Hugs,<P><BR>Sheba

Sheba,<P>I am trying to make deposits in his love bank. I try to pay him attention even though it is not reciprocated. When we dated we use to go to the races(he races). Unfortunately, this is in a way how he met the OW. She is into racing too and goes to the same track and hangs out at the same bar afterwards. <P>I use to always go with him and be in the pits and help on the car. But now with the OW in the picture I feel like a third wheel because all of my H's friends know what has gone on and some of them are actually friends with her and her family. This makes for a very sticky situation. If I go then my H in a way feels like I am checking up on him and if I stay home I feel like I am just giving up.<P>The very unfortunate thing is there is always drinking involved. And you guessed it I don't drink. So my H sees me as not wanting to have fun. <P>I thought tonight we might spend some time together but he isn't home and my first guess is he is either in a bar or possibly with the OW. While I sit here and a bunch of his friends are in the garage working on the race car he is nowhere to be found. I guess that shows where his priorities lie. <P>I have asked him also to go out to dinner with me but even that is too much to ask. He is always busy with something else. I want to hug him every time I see him but he pulls away and acts so cold that I feel awful. <P>As for what would make me feel good? I really am not sure. Spending a nice day outside maybe working on the house together would be nice. <P>Purplemag,<P>You're right I don't want the divorce. I filed in the heat of the moment and have been dragging my feet so to speak for awhile now. However, I realize that I can't continue to live my life the way it is. I have told my H that if he wants the divorce then he can contact his lawyer and fill the paperwork out and go from there. His response is that he won't call the lawyer because he thinks we can sit down and talk and decide on a settlement. I told him that I couldn't do that because it would be too painful and a divorce is really not what I want. He tells me he wants to keep the house because he built it and has always lived in our neighborhood. He thinks that he can buy me out for the amount of money we owe on our mortgage. The house is worth probably twice that on the market. I would be stupid to sell out for less than market value. I don't think he realizes this. He says he wants to see that I get the bills paid off and still have a lump sum of money to start new. <P>Boy is he crazy. Maybe if he talked to his lawyer he would realize what will happen and just what he will have to pay. <P>Sorry to ramble. I wish you could give me some suggestions on how to make him feel loved I have tried all that I know.

That's what we are going to do BC - help you with suggestions of how to make him feel loved!! We are going to get your behaviors changed to ones that show him you are a loving wife and a safe, secure and happy "haven" for him. He will see this slowly.....that is why you must not react to him and be steady in your thinking and behavior.<P>Maybe the first thing to do is to list what you think are his emotional needs.<BR>Do you have an idea of what they might be? He has stated that he felt that you don't care, etc. Have you thought on what he meant by that? Can you think back to before he got involved with OW and began drinking more....what was going on in your marriage? What was the relationship like? Were you both too busy for each other? Were you fighting or having little spats cuz of tension.....did he want you to do something and you didn't? Did he mention things he was not happy with? Think very hard, there are always little clues when we look back to how it really was - and then list them here......we can then figure out how best you can meet them.<P>As far as showing affection - even though he is not recipricating - that is usual and also why we tell you not to expect anything from him. So, lower your expectations. Don't look for ANYTHING from him....then if he does show anything you will be surprised and that will feel good. But if he continues not to for awhile - it will not make you sad or hurt. We sometimes set ourselves up - gotta stop doing that!<P>Ok, the races will have to take a back burner for now.....you need not be in that environment. You are not strong enough and don't want him to think that it is OK to keep doing the drinking or women/buddies thing. <P>I must say that it really shows how addicted he is.....to have people at your house working on HIS car and he is not even there? Who are these people? Aren't they upset? Or are they part of the drinking club too? Do you converse with them on a good level or are they part of this mess H is involved in?<P>What kinds of outside things would you like to work on? Are there things that you can do alone? Sometimes getting something accomplished on our own is such a good boost for our self-esteem!!<BR>We need to start being a little independent in a productive way and that helps with our own outlook and attitudes. <P>I remember when all this mess started for me....I felt totally paralized -- I couldn't focus on anything but H and what he was doing, thinking, etc.....<BR>As soon as I made myself stop that and got off my butt to start doing the things that I needed to do - I felt that paralysis go away. I got stronger with each little thing I managed to accomplish. <P>Try it....it will help so much!!!!<P>Could be anything...cleaning out a junk drawer, washing the car, trying a new recipe, etc. I also started each day with a little bit of exercising - just enough at first - to get the blood flowing because of all the tenseness and anxiety I felt. Another thing I learned was breathing!! Believe it or not - deep breathing exercises let out so much stress!! That helped tremendously too!!!<P>The reason I am going into all this is that these kinds of things will help make you stronger. They will allow you to project a steady demeanor when you deal with your H. You need to reflect that. Remember back to when you and H met.....you didn't dwell on him so much, you stood on your own two feet and just allowed the care for him to shine through, right? Well, that is what helped him to realize he loved you then and that is what may help him again!!!<P>So, let's work towards getting you off of the "walking on eggshells" merry-go-round!!! <P>When you have thought of the things I have asked you about problems and needs, put them down and we can all help you with a plan - OK? Have faith, BC - you can do this!!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>

Well my night was not as I had hoped. My H never came home and is still not home yet. I guess it isn't over with the OW even though he said it was. Now what???<P>The guys that were at the garage last night are a part of the drinking gang. They all come here and drink probably because their wives won't allow the drinking at their houses. One of the guys actually called me cold because I wasn't receptive to them being here drinking. I should have asked him why they never go to his house?<P>There is one guy who understands what is going on and although he is friends with my H has told me that he doesn't agree with my H behavior. He also agrees that my H has a drinking problem. <P>Now I have all this anger inside because he didn't come home and when he does I will most likely explode. Asking him where he was,why he didn't come home and who he was with. RIght now I am feeling like an old worn out door mat that he uses anytime he pleases. He is being so selfish and only looking out for himself and what supposedly makes him happy. Forget about what it does to me. Sorta like I am the two year old that is being punished because I said something he didn't like. <P>I feel like throwing his clothes out in the front yard and telling him that if the OW is so important then he can go shack up with her. I am so tired of this coming and going when he wants.