I hope I'm not the only one that is feeling this conflict ...<P>One day I'm feeling really strong and taking care of myself, I start to discover that I'm gonna be okay without my H (MAYBE). I start to think he will never be coming back and I have to move ahead without him. That I will only be able to hold him in my heart for the years to come with my memories and visions.<P>Then other days I search my heart and feel there's hope and we can make it but it's going to be a long and bumpy road. That he and I belong together and have this connection no one else can fill or even come close to.<P>Does anyone else experience this back and forth conflict on a daily basis?<P>Jo<P>------------------<BR>Josie_Res@Hotmail.com<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

Hi Resilient,<P>Yep. Every damn day of my life. But, I kind of think that that means we are making progress. That's what we are supposed to be feeling on Plan A. We may just loose this battle, but we will survive as many others have.<P>I didn't realize until I read some of your other posts what you had been through. You are dealing with two OC's...wow. Your attitude about those children is one of the most loving things I think I've ever heard. I don't think many would be so accepting of that situation as you are. How could he not love you to death?<P>So...keep those feelings alive, both of them, the hope that he will come home, and the knowledge that you will be OK if he does not come home. You need them both to survive this.<P>BTW, the e-mail thing between you and your H is great. I log on just to find out the latest...lol. Hey, it's better than watching soaps! Wish I was making that much progress.<P>allison

You are not alone, Resilient. In many ways, I too feel better without my H....mentally, physically...and realize that if the finances all work out, I could be very happy with just me. <P>At other times, I feel so much love for him and miss him terribly...and I feel so much sorrow for him and what he's going thru. I BELIEVE in my heart that God wants us together and have alot of hope that it can happen.<P>But it does teeter-totter back and forth so much. I'm in Plan A right now and I think that's par for the course in Plan A, like AZ Allison said. <P>The thing is....do you just feel this way...back and forth...until one day it just peeters out? One day you wake up and you don't feel anything for him (except memories)? The more time that goes by, the more I will get used to being without him and making my own life. In some ways, I'd like to force the issue (Plan B or Tough Love type thing) just to bring about a crises so that our marriage doesn't die a slow death. That probably isn't a good plan, but my opportunities to Plan A my husband are so few and far between, it's almost like we ARE in Plan B.<P>Anyway, hope that made sense. Just know you aren't alone.....it's an internal conflict that I just end up turning over to the Lord. I sure can't figure it out....<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

I do the back and forth thing - Hourly...I only wish it were daily, but I swing from hope and dispare about 6-10 times a day....

Jo -<BR>Yea, I feel it too. I know I can live my life without him. He knows it too. The fact is, though, I don't want to. I, too, feel God has something better instored for the two of us. It's as if he is saying there is much the two of us have to learn from this before we can move on and rebuild our lives together. So, I'm learning. Hopefully, so is my H.<P>It's all part of the process. A part that just continues to make all of it so tough.<P><P>------------------<BR>Molli<P>Find your strength within!

I'm right with you Jo. Everyday. Lately though I see myself as becomming strong and not wanting to be with him. <P>I'm afarid to admit this but I find myself thinking about someone else at times. Someone who I have only spoken to a few times but someone I look forward to speaking with. It is a feel good type of communication and someone who has been through the same thing as me. This person really helps me. <P>Then of course there are times when I am driving home and the tears well up. Its not happening as much lately but it does happen. <P>I think if my h started to treat me nice I would be hoping alot more but when he is so mean, I'm better off not thinking about him at all. <P><BR>

Unfortunately, yeah, but then I remember that somebody has act grown around here (in this house) so I calm down real quick.<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Check it out!:)

The back and forth thing is normal. We want the good memories. We want to feel valued. We want to feel we are more worthy than the one they left us for, so we want the betrayers back. <P>We want to feel safe. We want the end of lies. We want to feel honored, so we don't want them back. <P>I think the thing that ends all of this is commitment. Once you commit to whatever your path is, it does become easier with those baby steps. <P>I couldn't decide whether I wanted my H or not, but I knew I wanted to give it my best shot, so I commited to doing that. I was determined that I was not going to fight over money or property. Whatever he wanted he could have. I wasn't in the relationship for that. I was determined that I was going to love him no matter how provoked I became by the same old stuff. And as I conquered each impulse to be negative, it just got easier and easier to be loving and let it all go. All this stuff became less powerful and I found myself giving it less energy.<P>So, you *can* commit to being positive before you've commited to staying or leaving the relationship. It makes it easier to make that final decision too.

Jo, <P> I swear I posted this same thing awhile ago. Great minds think alike (or we are both nuts, another possibility)<P>Sometimes I think we are as confused as them. We have to stay strong tho cause they can't.<P>I was listening to a person talk about her marriage at work today. Someone asked her the secret of her long marriage. She said there were times when all you can see is the faults of the other person and you wonder what in the heck you are doing with them. But you can get through it by talking and sticking with your commitment. We have all had those times huh? And our spouses choose to turn to someone else instead of talking to us. Then things get way more complicated. I wonder if some of our spouses are capable of the talking and work and commitment that it takes.<BR>Lora

Hi Resilient -<P>Yep, been there......still get little pangs now and then.......<P>But, I am very curious about something you said ( and you, too, Missy)...<P>Why do you consider it strength when you realize that you are doing OK and might not want him? <P>Do you think that you are "weak" when you feel the love because he is acting badly? <P>If you think about it....it is truly STRENGTH when we can feel and behave lovingly in the face of adversity!!!<P>WE are really at our strongest when DESPITE what is going on around us or being done that's hurting us, we can still see our self worth and work toward our goal of what we want.<P>It is very easy to talk ourselves into anything....If you go about this with an I don't need him attitude, then eventually - you won't need him nor feel love for him. ONLY because you talked yourself into it!!! IT WILL resurface later though......mainly because there really is love there and you are just mirroring his "talking himself" into doing what he is doing. <P>Do you understand? If you love your husband, then LOVE him!!! You don't have to put that love on hold till you see what he does!!! How is that being your own person? How is that confirming your belief in the man you know him to be inside? How does that make you independent of him? <P>Please don't confuse "strength" in yourself with foolish pride or taking some kind of independent stand. They are very different things......<P>The going back and forth is normal. It is merely the LOVE and HURT emotions we all have during this nightmare. That's why "rollercoaster" is such a great word.<P>Hope this helps....<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>

Hi Sheba,<P>Always so glad to see you've responded to one of my threads. I race to see what pearls of wisdom you have to share.<P>I do continue to "want" and "need" my H, Sheba. And I've continued to love him too. There are days that I simply feel I should stop crying every morning before going to work and try to accept that I can't control him or what he does. I think that's what I mean by strength.<P>I admit there is also an element of foolish pride in me. When people, including my counselor, tell me I deserve better and that my H has something wrong with him and will never change, I start thinking in that vein. But in my heart I feel he and I are the same in terms of being human and making mistakes.<P>I still have hope and my H still owns my heart, he is and always will be the love of my life.<P><BR>God Bless, Sheba.<P>Jo

Jo:<P>Although I basically agree with Sheba in that a commitment to believe in the restoration of your marriage is important, I don't think it is ever wrong to believe first in yourself. <P>From our belief that whatever happens we will survive comes our strength to continue in the face of adversity. <P>Our H were a part of us, a part that has been ripped away, leaving us to wonder if we can survive without it. First we have to stop the hemmoraging to ourselves, to our self-esteem, to our self-image, to our sense of how the world operates, of right and wrong. <P>Once we have healed our open wounds then we can move on to help our H with their wounds...for don't mistake their arrogance...they are hurting just as we are.<BR>And sometimes they have wounds that can't be healed without our help...but we have to be healthy before we can help.<P>So don't be afraid to think about surviving without him...it's just your way of healing...and does not mean that you love him any less.<P>Buffy<P>

Gosh Buffy,<P>Where have you been? I've been looking for you ... you haven't been on the board much.<P>I'll never forget how you helped me early on when I was so distraught over H moving in w/OW. You helped me so much, your words calmed my soul and helped me to see I could make it thru that crisis. I want to thank you for that.<P>If you have a minute, I'd like to ask you something, I haven't been real active in responding to my H. He's been wanting me to talk to him, ALOT. Well I've sent a couple short but sweet emails in the last couple days ... now I've come to find out my SIL has told him to leave me alone and work on himself. I learned this yesterday.<P>So the wind has shifted, and my sails are down. Should I hoist the sails up and point them to him, should I email him and tell him I miss him too and "yes" I'd like to talk to him. Or should I wait to see if the winds p/u again from his direction?<P>If I don't hear back I may just send a seperate post re: sailing in the FOG. <P>God Bless you, Buffy. And thank you again for being there to help me.<P>Jo

Hi Jo:<P>You know how it is...my tennies are thread-bare from running away from having to think too much.<P>By the time I slow down and get here (usually after midnight) everyone has already offered such good advise I usually don't feel I can contribute much. <P>But I am keeping up with you and reading your posts and things are moving along fine.<P>I really think the ball is in your husband's court now as far as the e-mail is concerned.<BR>Your retreat into a pseudo Plan B to protect yourself brought this all about and I don't think you need to stop now so "continue with what is working" (Divorce Busting).<P>I don't think he is going to leave you alone because his sister told him to. You are too important to him. Allow him to feel and discover that himself..it will have more meaning to him.<P>I know you've seen some response, but remember patience, patience, patience. Step back and let it happen. And I repeat same to myself as well.<P>Buffy<BR>

Dear Resilient,<P>Conflict? Yeah, I've got that too, inside myself.<P>In the year since D-day my emotions have run the gamut from rotten smelling deep inky oily black to healthy muddy brown (like a river) to clear blue to Arctic frozen to heavy rain to tsunamis. All these liquid states represented my emotions in dreams (I wrote like a madwoman before I found a therapist so a lot of the early days are on paper).<P>Lately I've been feeling so balanced and healthy and strong (BTW my H finally dragged himself into couples therapy with me and a new therapist; not the one I was seeing because we needed to start fresh with a helper who didn't have a history and connection with me already). And this guy is very good and gives us assignments to work on in between sessions.<P>The conflict comes in here: I feel attracted to my H at times and memories of romantic times surface. I bat them away, don't want them to take hold, because the contrast between what is here now and what I thought we once had is so stark that it hurts. I distanced myself and now I don't want to become vulnerable again. <P>Last year I thought I couldn't bear it if we separated. This year I imagine how nice it would be to be alone, free, not working so hard on the relationship. (Not to mention having the OW in the background because my H insists he isn't giving up a "friend" - apparently the only person he can bond with like this.) <P>And since I have had so much time to get used to "Our Marriage and The World As Hubby Remembers It" I have a more jaundiced view of the whole thing. (All the BS's are familiar with the altered memories phenomenon; the supposed bad things that turned the course of the relationship even longer than 10 years ago, but which the WS never mentioned until the marriage reached crisis stage). <P>So when I imagine going home and fixing any darn thing for dinner that our son and I feel like eating rather than putting together a real meal, or calling up a bunch of mom's and kids to come over and play and yak, and not having to "work" on conversation with Hubby, picking up the house, checking with him first before making plans, I feel so free. <BR> <BR>The courage I need (defined not as the kind that we think of where you can rush into a burning building to save a life, but the kind that keeps going after you don't really want to any more because years ago you made a commitment) does not come easy to me. There I am a moral and emotional coward. I want to take the easy way out. <P>Yes, I'm wavering. We've removed the OW from discussions. All the work is one-on-one between me and H. It is very hard to stay now, to do the work. And I'm afraid to feel romantic love for him again. <P>Now it would be easy for me to end it because I'm so far along my own road of recovery after D-day. But the marriage is nowhere near recovered and has just taken a few small steps. <P>I'm wavering too. Sometimes theres so much wavering that it would look like a vibration. Other times it would look like a zig-zag. The trick is to keep my actions on the path while my emotions are all over the chart.<BR>To remember our vows. Commitment. <P>Bellevue<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited July 14, 2000).]

I am definitely feeling this conflict too. I had almost a month after d-day before I read the book SAA. During that time I was a mess--angry, crying, devastated, hopeless, strong, weak. Since the book and this board, I have been holding it together and plan Aing away. However, inside I still have these incredible ups and downs.<P>I just returned from a week away. Before I left I really felt his thoughts were coming around more to staying, even though he didn't say so. We were waiting for him to get treatment for depression. Well, he still hasn't gone and now wonders if that's his problem. He said he thinks that I think that will be a "cure-all" for our problems. That he'll see a counselor, be treated for depression, and everything will be ok. I can tell he's thinking less of being able to stay. He wouldn't have sex with me last night, and that's the first time he's refused. <P>His SIL who is probably my best friend (other than my H), is also pulling away from me. She had been my only confidant, and now I feel that she is conflicted. It hurts me greatly. It is what I was afraid will happen.<P>I am not at all strong. I cannot imagine my life without my H. Financially I will suffer greatly. I did not pursue a career or even think about having to earn my own money. I have been a SAHM for six years. My standard of living will decrease considerably. I'm not as worried about the immediate future, but my old age frightens me terribly. I will miss the daily contact with my H. I don't think I could ever Plan B. I am too attached to him. Most of all, the effect on our son terrifies me. Without my H who is my best friend, I will feel so alone. I am not someone who enjoys being alone. So maybe I am not mentally a healthy person.<P>Every once in a while I do have a feeling that I could be ok without him. But these feelings are few and far between. <P>As you can tell, right now I'm feeling less hopeful about his staying. Maybe tomorrow, I'll be up again.

Bellevue:<P>If I could force myself to voice it, your words would echo mine. It's almost sacrosanct, isn't it, so against the "party line" here at MB. <P>What's this been all about if at the end when there is a glimmer of hope, we question whether the victory is worth the effort.<P>Tested and honed in the fire of despair, have we emerged not renewed but altered, unable to except the limitations of what was and longing for the possibility of what could be.<P>In his fog my H said to me "I wish you someone who could make your heart sing because you deserve it" and I think maybe he's right. It's been a long time since anyone has made the effort...especially him. As usual here I am making all the effort and I wonder if he can ever make my heart sing again. <P>But committed like two birds mated for life, I know that whatever happens, this man will remain in my heart as much as a child born to my own body and pray that God will give us enough time to recapture what we've lost.<P>So, I guess I'll climb those circular stairs again and light those lights that I hope will bring him home again to me...a glimmer of hope in a stormy sea.<P><BR>Buffy<P>