schizzo,<P>She actually said two things A) that she hadn't been putting forth the effort, and B) that she was ready to put her "friendship" with OM behind her.<P>I asked if that means that her feelings for him had changed since last year when she made some very strong statements about him. She merely said "To answer that I would have to think about him and I have decided not to do that". Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but that answer didn't give me the warm fuzzies.<P>The one really positive thing she said is that she understands that I will be skeptical of her words, and that she knows she has to prove herself with actions. I thought that was very sensible of her to acknowwledge that. Too bad she didn't also have any kind of plan to make this happen. <P>If she doesn't have a plan things just don't get done. For several months our counselor tried to get her to spend 5 minutes a day in couple time with me. Every week he asked about it and every week she said "it was a busy week and we didn't have time." So we actually had to sit there in front of him and plan those 5 minutes a day for the next week. Oh yeah, that was a real ego booster. <P>So I think I am completely justified in pressing her for an action plan. I haven't consulted the Harleys. Our counselor is pretty good. W wouldn't participate with the Harleys anyway. She won't look at a book (any books), read posts or anything.<P>The other good news is that intimacy returned after a LOOOONG year. Few and far between, but a definite improvement!<P>There is progress, but it is excrutiatingly slow. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>If you haven't had this kind of help, you may want to try the phone counselling. For me, affection was big. I drew up a list, he had to give me 3 hugs, say I love you, etc. It was all a choice he made, not some gushy feelings. But still it was true, he did love me, though not in-love.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Eeew. Were these "forced" actions satisfying to you? My W has a way of demonstrating her reluctant, obligatory cooperation with this sort of "forced" activity that sucks any value right out of it. It is a form of passive aggression that she is an expert at.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23<p>[This message has been edited by 2sad4words (edited September 13, 2000).]

It was only forced in the sense that it was far from spontaneous, not that he would make me feel his reluctance. But he doesn't rate affection very high at all.<P>Meeting needs is learned behavior. It is hard sometimes to know when it feels unnatural because it is the behavior that is foreign to him or me or when it is because of missing in-love feelings.<P>Again, using affection as an example. It is #1 for me, so as he distanced himself during the A, I sometimes followed him around when he was getting ready just wanting a hug. Now I know this is not something he really needs or likes that much. As his feelings for me grow stronger (and I believe they really are) he still has to learn to show it in ways that are meaningful to me. Make sense?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>I know this sounds trivial, but it continues to be a bone of contention with my h.<P>Since I don't know any others trying to do this, I just don't know whether to be even tougher on them or to tell him it's not realistic. He says I must not be raising them right.<BR></B><BR>Anything concerning children is never a trivial matter. I "pre-taught" my children before went anywhere. I told them I needed their 'help' with behaving themselves.<P>I made it into a game. I told them let's see how many compliments you get for sitting quietly and acting good.<P>Each time someone commented on their good behavior, I waited until the person not around and praised my children. Then I asked them how they felt about what was said.<P>I reinforced it with a hug and a praise of my own by telling them I was glad they knew how to act.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love hurts no one.