I could not even post yesterday. I have been miserable.<P>My H had a business trip last week. When I asked him straight out, with therapist present, was OW going to meet him there, he said no very definitely. I think I may have double checked later that week, and again he said no. I brought it up with my therapist at private session, how scared I was because I really did not trust him going East anywhere near her. She said don't worry, he told me again no, and I believe him.<P>He called every day. Told me about his day and his contacts and how well the trip was producing business. I felt satisfied. He came home 4am Sat due to delays because of the weather.<P>Sunday night he was tired, and drunk, so he went to bed early. I stayed up until 11, but thought I would brush up on my SAA book I had sent with him on the trip, so we could talk about it; so I was fresh. As I drew out the book there were two cards. I quickly opened them thinking he was going to present them to me, and WHOA!!!!! Hold the phone!!<P>They were from her, no address on the outside, then I noticed the other paper in my hand. Opened it up and it was her itinerary! SOB. Then I noticed the rest, the godiva chocolate, the cologne he wears only for her(which I disposed of) a Victoria Secret catalog(disposed of it.) She had been there the whold d*** time. He had had her again. This is the first time since dday. <P>I went to our room turned on the light and confronted him. I slapped him in fury.(I know big LB) Then I just cried. Then I threatened his private parts, and how dare they get a work out, and I don't!!! Mrs. Bobbett watch out!<P>I have put so much into Plan A. I have given him space, time, comfort, patience and done the things he requested of me that i had let slack--house work, makeup, hair-etc.<P>He has been fence sitting. For a while I was okay with that, but now he has lied to me. Not just by omission this time. I cannot take lies. <B>Why don't I paln B? My kids.</B> I am in so much fury and pain I cannot even believe it could keep coming out this long!!<P>I walked two hours yesterday, praying for someone in person who was going through this. I love MB, but I am in need of physical hugging. And a voice who has been through it. I prayed the whole walk. I walked to church and prayed there too. <P>Then last night on the way home from my singing practice, my good friend said I am so sorry to hear about this--(I had told her the feelings of the problem--not IT, not the A) She looked right at me and asked if there was someone else in H's life, and I can't lie. I said I couldn't talk about it. She said, "yes you want to. I have been where you are, two years ago." I am telling you the grace of God is unbelievable!<P>We went out for coctails to talk about it and wow, I feel better. To share it face to face and with an already good friend. <P>I am still smarting, though. The lie is a serious thing. The A is too, but at least when I actually asked him about it he told me the truth. This is like dday #2 for me. <P>I need help setting boundries. Any ideas? The only consequence I can think of is plan B. There has to be another way to get him to give her up and work on the marriage. I still do not want to scare my kids about it. <P>I also came to the conclusion last nite, that he is going to HAVE to give up his traveling job or there isn't a chance. His lie <B>destroyed</B> any trust I had left. He isn't going to like that. He may not agree to it. He is compulsive about being employed; he won't even ask for a decent raise when he deserves it ten times over!<P>What am I going to do? <P> <P><p>[This message has been edited by burnedspouse (edited September 27, 2000).]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{burnedspouse}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>I know it's only a cyber hug, but very heartfelt. I'm so sorry...<P>Your h is either an idiot leaving a trail like that or wants you to find out???<P>My h was willing to give up his job which lately is 70% travel, but using POJA we decided not to.<P>I went on all his trips with him until I felt comfortable again (and he goes all over the world). Only recently have I allowed him to go overnight without me to Brazil (OW's place). Through constant communication, I was convinced that it is completely over.<P>But I'm ahead here. He wrote a very definite contact letter back in Nov, I monitored all his emails and he swore there was no phone contact, so I checked everything I could at first...<P>Sorry, I don't know your story. Was that part of the fence sitting, that he has never ended it? Or he did, and he backslid?<P>

Unfortunately, there is no way to make him give her up. You go to Plan B when you feel that you are starting to lose your love for your spouse. Only you know when that it is.

Hello burnedspouse,<P>I don't know if you are familiar with my situation, so I'll just give you an overview. In Sept. 1999, my husband confessed a brief involvement with another woman, promised it was over, etc., etc., etc. I believed him, and in fact there was a "pause in the action", so to speak. In July of this year I noticed a definite change in him again, but he denied any contact with the other woman.<P>In August, the other woman's husband came to see me with proof that the contact has resumed. My husband admitted PART of the truth when I confronted him, and two weeks later when the other woman called him AGAIN, he finally told me everything. My suspicions had been right on target, the contact resumed right after July 4th.<P>My point is this, I had done everything I possible could to force him, convince him, entice him, and SCARE him into ending the illicit relationship. None of it did any good. The affair is finally over now, but only because my husband decided to truly end it, and probably only because he FINALLY saw the other woman for what she is (a slutty nut).<P>Unfortunately, the same is likely true of your husband. It will not end until HE ends it in his own heart and mind. Remember that Plan B is to protect you, not to try to convince him to end the affair. It probably won't do that anyway.<P>I wish I could offer you some real comfort and advice. All I can really offer is support and complete empathy to your situation.<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint

BurnedSpouse:<P>I'm not sure if sympathy from "my kind" is welcomed, but you have it, nonetheless. Very sorry to hear about your troubles. The carelessness with which your H concealed the A does seem to indicate that he either wanted you to find out, or simply didn't care whether you did or not. How did he react to your confrontation? <P>I don't have any advice regarding "Plan Aing" or "Plan Bing". I'm not sure I buy into the whole concept in any event. I think you're handling it as well as you can. Don't be afraid to confide in true friends about it, or to vent here on the boards. Take some time and think about whether, in light of your H's fresh betrayal, you would really WANT to save your marriage. You'll be in all our thoughts.

Beth,<P>Check your e mails.<P>allison

burnedspouse:<P>I too have had a 2nd dday recently, except I caught them together at my house. What is sad there are several on MB site that this has happened too lately.<P>I have to agree with peppermint that affairs normally die a natural death. Giving up cold turkey usually doesn't work, unless the WS wants it to end.<P>How are you doing today? How is your husband doing as well?<P>Get back on plan a. You can and will survive this. Keep posting.<P>((((((burnedspouse))))))<P>Judy<BR>

First of all, I'm so sorry you've found more crap.<P>I slapped the dogsnot out of my H one of the times he lied about where he had been--my prayer partner had seen them together, she called moments after he swore he'd just driven around for 6 hours, not seen her. He was outside laying on the trampoline and I swear my memory says I leapt like a tiger from the deck to pummel him. I also called her--which he felt was unexcusable AND he hadn't known I had her ph #. She said she didn't date married guys. OH? The affair really took off again after that with our separation # 5.<P>I don't think hitting or violence accomplishes anything, we're together now, but that incident was well over a year ago and certainly didn't do anything to bring us back together. For months after that, if I got angry & moved closer to him, he'd get in his car & leave. It was awful.<P>My counselor worked on anger management with me a long time, and I recommend it for anyone who resorts to physical violence.<P>Anyway, lying & an affair are almost inseparable. One of my coping manuevers was to look at the affair as a situation with components of lying, the physicalities, his behavior toward me. They weren't separate problems but all parts of the whole problem. <P>A friend who has gone through this is a God-send. You say you went to your church, is your pastor someone you can talk to, or who would recommend a Christian counselor--that is if you don't use Steve H.<P>If your love isn't dying or if you haven't done Plan A for 6 months, don't go to B immediately. You don't want his last memories of the two of you together blurred through alcohol and you hitting & yelling at him. <P>Also, you need to find a way to process your negative emotions. Believe me, I totally commisserate with the feelings that lead to hitting, but you (we) are in a situation which the newspapers constantly tell us can turn to deadly violence and you need to keep your head.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

double post<p>[This message has been edited by Lor (Lor) (edited September 27, 2000).]

I do not usually react with physical violence. As a matter of fact i have never laid a finger on him before, not even on dday. This revelation destroyed the last of my trust for him. My behavior also caught me by surprise. <P>My dday is only 7 weeks ago. That is how long I have plan a-ing. He never speaks of anything. But I had resigned myself that he could not do the initial no contact. That he called her every day. But this. I have an issue with lying and not talking about feelings that dates back to childhood. It is part of my nature. I feel extraordinarialy betrayed by this. Lying is almost a greater sin to me than the A. We all have these behaviors that get in the way of MB principles. But I try. <P>I try not to let his thoughtlessness, and his knife-in-my-heart hurt me. He can just see her with my blessing until he comes to his senses? I DON'T THINK SO. I know that many of your WS's thought they loved the OP. Mine does too. He said last nite that he thinks they loved each other from the first day they met. This is going to be such a tough fight. But I have a hard time just sitting back here, in our home, pretending everything is fine when he doesn't love me, and is stooping to lying, and....well. I'm still smarting.<P> <BR>But you will be glad to hear that we had our first non-strained conversation last nite. I did not LB. We talked about what "they" had planned(no plan), About how she was feeling(scared) and I told him about how I was feeling at the time of my breakdown in May, (the one he did not notice.) How truly desperate I was. I finally saw a glimmer of compassion. He asked why I did not come to him for help. I told him that by then he was so cold that I did not feel I could and not get rejected, which I could not handle. He understood. I thanked him for finally listening to me about that time, that I had wanted to tell him since early June. He was pleased, and apoligised for not asking sooner.

Dear B,<P><BR>Some anger and show of indignation can help the WS see that you are not a doormat they can wipe the dust off their filthy shoes. He started to see the damage he did to you and how you wouldn't stand for his A anymore. I am also sure that having Plan Aed all along, it helped.<P>I got more info out of WS when I was mad (he gets the blast and feels the heat) than when I was all weepy and hurt (introverted way and confined to the self). I think it worked because I have always been a gentle softie, and the outbursts and (violence - bad , I know - I started hitting myself first and he offered to let me get the steam off him, and it got worse and worse. Now it is almost resolved). So, it was very uncharacteristic of me, and WS knew that he was totally responsible for my going off on a wild tangent.<P>I am not condoning your violence, but it is a common thing (my pastor said so but that it has to be given to God). I just feel that if one shows some personality and claims self-entitlement within the marriage, it makes the other spouse sit up and take heed of the hurt and feelings they have caused. And that there is the serious business of parting ways if one doesn't work at the marriage.<P>Please see a counsellor or church pastor for help. <P>God Bless and Shine upon your life.<BR>weep

He is taking notice now. We have now had three discussions this week without any heat or weeping. From either of us! <P>He is amazed at me(THANKS TO MB PRINCIPLES)That i can still love him and be so strong inside. He neveer thought I had it in me. He is fairing worse, and to see me so sure of our possible future, makes him more ashamed. He said, "I am a lucky guy to be loved by you." And I confidently aswered, "yes, you are." <P>The hosesty thing is still a hard thing for him to swallow, because he is still protecting me, habits die hard. He has been protecting me for 17 mos.(A started.) I tell him he is not protecting me, he is hurting me and not allowing me to process any of the sh**. But I insist, especially after last weekend.<P>I am so scared of this weekend!!! I always have the WORST weekends.

Hey Beth,<P>Just checking in on your weekend...how are you?<P>allison

Burnedspouse:<BR>I am sorry to learn of what has been going on with you. Please know that my thoughts are with you. I have been pretty much a recluse this past few days, trying to write my H a letter from the heart, (which turned out pretty darned good if I do say so myself!)I finally am finished and will be giving it to him Mon or Tues. He is having a separate counseling session with our therapist on Tues. I will be faxing it to her so she knows what I said to him. It is very honest and covers what he did, its affect on me, all my feelings, and what he needs to do to help me.I'm also as huge as a house, and finally realizing I'm having a baby in a month, and have nothing done. Trying to get ready for this while being almost physically unable to do so and trying to push thoughts of her and the OC out of my mind is tough, but needs to be done. I have to show him I'm strong and can do it. Anyway, enough about me.<BR>I feel so bad that your H has done this to you. You have been trying so hard. I am, however, so glad that it seems as if he is finally starting to come to terms and is showing an effort to try to start the healing. Is he still trying this weekend? I have the same type of weekends, they always seem to be worse than the weeks. My H actually said that maybe he should be scarce over the weekends because we fight so much. I hope this weekend was an exception for you. Has he said anything about having no contact with her since this has happened?<BR>You are a very strong woman, and obviously love your H very much. I don't think I could have been as strong to let H back in after going back to her, yet I always said that I would never tolerate once and here I am.Your dedication and determination to stay and work this out are an inspiration to me. Please let us know how you are doing.I probally won't be able to post until Tues., but will be checking in and lurking. I'll be thinking of you.

Burnedspouse,<P>Ashamed to admit I couldn't open this thread for the longest time. I said a little prayer for you but you can call me the worst kind of chicken. I wasn't in "a place" to actually read the details of your pain. Felt I had no strength to offer you. I was horrified just by the heading. It's the kind of post that strikes terror in a long- time MB'ers heart. <P>So, so sorry this happened. The pain must have been insane. <P>But you sound stronger since your top post and for that I'm grateful. Sending prayers your way and thanking God for listening to yours in your time of need. <P>My sincere apologies for my lack of reply to you when you needed strength, I'll try to do better next time this kind of thing happens. It just makes me feel faint that this situation could be mine one day. <P> <P>L

Hi everyone. I spaced this because I did not check it for a while and it got away from me. Thanks to all who answered since my update on this thread.<P>Here is another update: No more progress since those 2 discussions. Not one time. He is so wrapped up in his unresolved childhood issues that he is putting all of us on hold. But yes he is still talking to her every day.<P>I am obsessing again, today. I spent the morning figuring out on the internet where she works, and the phone #, and where her town is..mapped it and everything. I also looked at the time line again-figured out that they met on a trip every month of the A for a 4-day jaunt(along with business.) <P>I do not do well during these lags of discusssion. One day I am strong and another day I am wild and terribly greivous! <P>I feel that he will not give her up right now, as long as she waits. Da** her hide! She is not conniving, so it is not likely "seeing her for who she really is" will do anything. She is a lonely woman who has never had anyone like my H(a direct quote.) Where is the delete button for the story of my life? I want to erase the last 2 mos!!!!! Or 17 if before the A. Yes, that would be better.<P>

Hey Beth,<P>You know,,,this is probably the last thing you want to hear, but at least your H is working on his childhool stuff. This is a step in the right direction. Hey, if he wanted to be gone, he'd be gone. He's trying to work it all out, and find out what the hell is wrong with him.<P>Patience is the hardest thing, something I always was really bad at, but out of necessity...I'm learning. Can we get together again soon? I have nothing but time on my hands, other than work. Give me a call or an e mail if you have some time.<P><BR>~allison<BR>