aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

It's tough when those feelings arise again, and you don't know if you are seeing a repeat or assigning suspicion to normal stuff that matches affair behavior. And with the OP as a co-worker, you know opportunity for contact is there.<P>When I get "that feeling" I tell my spouse I'm feeling anxiety & ask if there is anything he'd like to talk about...and if that gets no response, I ask if he's been in contact with her. I can tell a lot from my spouse's nonverbal expression, probably moreso than his answer. Watch eye contact, listen for equivocating, like "I think I'd tell you if anything was going on." Or whatever sort of phrasing she used before.<P>One thing I learned, if actions and words don't line up, believe the actions. "As a man thinks, so is he."<P>Plan A works, keep at it.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Hurting,<P>I tend to go with my intuitive feelings. They have become very tuned during this ordeal. My W is not a very good liar and I can always tell when there is cause for concern. I usually ask outright how she is feeling about withdrawal. I do it in a way that indicates support for her, not in a way that sounds accusing. If you can get her talking about it, you can likely get an answer that says either "truth", or "it just doesn't add up". <P>This whole process is so difficult, because each scene is a little different...less an exact science and more an artform when it come to dealing with it.<P>Stay strong about who and what you are and hang in there with the Plan....<P>bob

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Dear Leon,<P>That's a tough place to be in because you want to know, but if you ask she might lie (which she is apparently good at) or it could be nothing and turn into a big fat LB. Where are you in your recovery? Are you and she counseling together? Is she still in withdrawal from the OM? Is there any way you can gently bring up the fact that you are feeling anxious? If you are far enough down the recovery road, you may be able to just quietly open the door to communication.<P>I never mention my H's fling to him, but he has moved out and is very withdrawn from me right now -- it's not a good time. I'm not sure, but I assume if we ever make it into recovery we are going to have to talk about it eventually -- openly and honestly, without LBing.<P>I hope that you are able to recapture some peace of mind soon. I'm sorry that you are hurting like this.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers,<BR>KristyAnn

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Well, I wouldn't say the day after D-day you're in recovery, but the fact that she has said she wants to work on the marriage and you are in counseling might be an indicator. Although, it doesn't sound like you are too far in to it.<P>Is there any way she will talk about this in counseling? It may actually be easier for her having a 3rd person there to come out with the truth. I guess that considering your "sinking feelings" you need to press a little bit for some honesty. Hopefully, it can be done with no LBs.<P>But if you have any sort of hunch that she and OM have some secret plans, I agree, you deserve to know the truth. If you are currently in Plan A and she is still "slipping" with inappropriate contacts to OM, have you thought about Plan B? I know it's hard to do, but you have to draw a line somewhere and she has to decide which side she is going to be on. She says she's working on the marriage, but if not for the kids and finances, she'd be gone? She needs to make a decision, no matter how hard it is. I don't see how you can rebuild unless the A is over completely.<P>I'm sorry, Leon. I know this is hard. My thoughts and prayers are with you.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers,<BR>KristyAnn

Hi Leon,<P>Sorry to hear this. But from everything I have read it is to be expected. This is especially true since GG and OM work together. I have just a few questions. Does the OM's W know about the affair? Has there been any discussion of W changing jobs or moving to another part of the Co. she works in? <P>I realize that she will be unwilling to change the job at this point since she really hasn't commited to the marriage, but it is something to think about.<P>Finally, I suspect this may take longer for you because of not only OM being in the picture, but because of what your W does. I get the idea that she has a very high regard for her own talents and reasoning ability.<P>If that is the case and to use her words she "chose" to have an affair, rather than fall into an affair, then she is going to have to admit she is wrong. This is hard for anyone, but for someone like her, it may take awhile. It may even take too long, for I am sure you only have so much patience.<P>So after stating the obvious to you , why am I posting? Well, to urge you to hang in there for awhile longer. And to urge you to talk with your W about your feelings. Yes, she may lie to you about them, but she may also tell you the truth. So go for it, and ask her what is up.<P>You may not get the truth, but you should get an answer. And the answer can tell you a great deal. Finally, it make her aware that you are aware of her and her actions. That may be interpretted as an LB, but it also shows that you care.<P>Leon, I wish I could offer some real concrete advice. I know you have come to accept that the marriage may end. I know that you have come to accept your roll in the state of the marriage before the affair. But have you accepted that your W had a major roll in the state of the marriage before the affair and that the affair was solely her choice? I hope so.<P>This isn't all your fault and the affair isn't your fault. So hang in there and see what happens. You are no doubt getting good advice from Steve H. I just hope that GG finally realizes that this marriage was a product of her efforts as well, and also realizes that her skills with regard to marriage could use some tuning.<P>Seem like I am venting some, but it is I guess because your situation frustrates me and I know it drives you crazy. So hang in there and talk with her when she gets back from her trip.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi Leon.<BR>Manon Checking on you (notice the hope I had when I chose the id??). Looks like you're going through a rough time. I'm so sorry it is this way. Hang in there pal. <BR>JL is right to say that this isn't all your fault and the affair isn't your fault. I know how it is to feel guilty. I'm there right now. I feel like a failure. In my case, there is no OW and I've still managed to lose my H. So sad.<BR>Will check on you again soon.<BR>Manon

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Leon,<P>I guess I'm frustrated because I see so much that could be fixed so easily. But I really think (No offense intended), that being an engineer, she feels she has it all figured out. But all I see is the usual rationalization, the usual boneheaded thinking, and the usual blame shifting. Man, is that annoying. And I am just a viewer into this mess. <P>I'm beginning to think I have been posting and reading here too long. But if she feels that there is no chance, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because she "can't be wrong."<P>Has she even admitted that what she did was wrong? Has she shown any remorse or sorrow for what she has put you through?<P>As for you pulling away, it is the natural reaction to something this painful, but Leon don't pull away too much. It is very clear that if this is going to work out, you will have to do it single handedly. <P>So, while I have not been very positive in this message, please know this: I am pulling for you. You aren't very long after discovery and the fog does lift. So hang in there, take good care of the kids and realize you have quite a number of people here cheering you on.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Leon,<P>You said <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I've always known that this would be the biggest hurdle in this process. My W is very smart, and once she makes a decision, she sticks by it and "moves on", as she says.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Only people that "think" they are smart do this. Really smart people constantly reevaluate situations and make the appropriate changes as the situation changes. Takes more work and more thought, but it gets much better results. Heck, even the military teaches their leaders to do this.<P>Reevaluate the data. I think that is why I am so frustrated and I "know" you are frustrated. She got too smart for her own good, put herself into a bad situation, and is likely to try and bulldoze herself out of it. Instead of talking with you about her feelings in the beginning and getting better information in and a better result.<P>Oh! Well! Arrrg!<P>God Bless,<P>JL

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Leon,<P>You are right, she has to do the sorting out herself. You cannot do it for her, but it would help if the attitude was a little more neutral, rather than "I don't think it is going to work."<P>Oh Well, I am just venting frustration to you when it is you that is frustrated. Does that make any sense at all? Not really.<P>I just know she has it in her to make this work for the both of you. So weird. By the way, very good advice to Maggie. I think she is finally getting it.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi Leon. <BR>I found you again.<P>It must be tough for you to wait patiently for your W to let go of the OM but By the sound of your post, it's like you've reached some inner peace that I wish I had.<P>I envy you that she is reading relationship books. My H won't read any of that stuff. Has never been a book reader period.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B> Please don't feel like a failure. No matter what you did to contribute to the problems, you have made the effort to rebuild the marriage, and you are to be commended for that. Your H is the one who decided he wanted out, and so he is the failure IMHO.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for saying this Leon. It makes me feel better.H and I had an other discussion last night and he recognizes that I've changed positively and that if his love feeling for me comes back, he would not hesitate to return to me because of my old ways which are now gone. I guess that's something positive but it sure does not remove the pain from my heart.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hurting Badly:<BR><B> <BR>Her H just announced that he wants to separate (is he still with you, Manon?).</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes he is but he is determined to move out. HE said he would start looking for an appartment soon. <P>IT's so strange. If I didn't know any better, I would think that things are not so bad. This evening was pleasant for the four of us. He says things that can lead someone to beleive that he's going to stay. Or it may be that I'm interpreting what he says this way.... Anyway, I've rambled enough on your thread. <P>I'm tired and have some reading to do. Guess what kind of books?? Self help of course. I coud open a library w/ all the books I've bought. I have a feeling you've been reading a lot too.<P>Hang in there Leon. By the way, how did you convince your W to post on this BB and to consult w/ Harley? My H will not do any of this. Says he needs his space.<P>Talk to you later.<BR>MAnon<P><p>[This message has been edited by Still_Hurting_But_Hopeful (edited September 28, 2000).]

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]

Leon,<P>I started to reply to this post this morning but I am working today and my boss worked in the door and I had to lose what I wrote, so, in a nutshell here is what I said:<P>I have no great words of wisdom but I just wanted to let you know I think about you and GG from time to time and hope things work out for you.<P>I have read some of your previous posts and I want to tell you that you have given me alot to think about in my own situation. You seem to be doing everything right by doing a great Plan A for you-dancing lessons, working out, basically being a happy person-I need to get to the point you are at!<P>The only insight I have is this--I think you once mentioned that GG's father is a physician and she has alot of admiration for him. I know most physicians and cops are able to emotionally detach themselves from unpleasant situations (believe me, I know) and she may have grown up with that instilled in her. I know my H. has a huge barrior built up and it has always been extremely difficult to break through that and get to his real emotions and feelings. I am thinking that perhaps you may be dealing with this barrior as well with GG. It is something to keep in mind and know that progress may be hindered because of it.<P>Take care Leon!!<p>[This message has been edited by Wifeofcop (edited September 29, 2000).]

For some strange reason when I posted this am it didn't take the post to the top-hopefully this will!

aaa<p>[This message has been edited by Hurting Badly (edited December 12, 2000).]