I think I'll be venting alot the next few weeks. Wife takes house possession next week, but wants to stay till Jan. to not "ruin kids Xmas". I asked her to sign a paper saying my money for her downpayment was "spousal support", and she got very agitated, saying "she knew I'd try something like this". Eventually she calmed down, and now says she'll sign it. It is almost a useless piece of paper, I just wanted something that confirms that it isn't a gift. This was actually a few days ago, and she's been somewhat nasty since. It says that the amount will form part of any future separation agreement. She said "I don't think we need one". Can anyone explain how someone can consider herself separated for 5 months, living in same house, planning on moving in the near future, but you don't need an agreement? I don't get it.<P>Tonight she started talking about going on a trip next spring, when I take the kids to see my parents. She's plotting things out for me in the future. I said that I love her and hope by that time that we are taking a trip together, that I hope for a miracle. She just responded that "we are just so different". Always looking for that excuse of why we shouldn't be together. I know I have to expect very negative times, and sometimes better times (ie. in her attitude). She is in one of the negative times now. Funny how everyone used to say we were so alike, like two peas in a pod. Now all of a sudden, we're so different. Guess we are, given our respective behaviors the last several months. She thinks this is "her" now.<P>Yesterday, she wanted to know what specific time I'd meet her and the kids at a restaurant. I have to drive across a big city, rush hour traffic. I said 6 to 6:15. She snapped back "That is a big variance, I need a more accurate time, people have to go home you know." (was meeting to sign mortgage papers). So I said "6:15", and she was happier.<P>This morning I said I'm going out tonight after work. She said then I'm having people over. I told her these "people" could include anyone but one person. (Of course OM). She rolled her eyes and said "whatever". I became furious inside, but simply said that I need her to agree on that. "Whatever" was her answer again. So I said "don't indignify me by having that man in my house". She told me I was melodramatic. I guess that whole thing was LB, but I'm sorry, I can't accept him in my house. The paperwork was probably LB too, but I can't help that either. I'm sure I lost Plan A ground that I seemed to be doing well on last week (notes, kiss, etc.).<P>Can you confirm that the stuff I am experiencing is all normal fog things. I'm going to be a pain on here for awhile. At least you have to choose to read by clicking

Rick,<P>I am thinking you are really going to be in the running for sainthood when you leave this world. <P>I don't think that I could deal with the things you are being forced to deal with without my head exploding.<P>If asking that your W not have OM in YOUR HOME is a LB, well I don't think there are many people here who could have made it without LBing. Gee, what are you supposed to do, tell her to have him over and let him sit in your favorite chair and wear your slippers? Her "whatever" responses would have sent me over the edge. A person can only be expected to put up with so much, and I think you hit that quota a LONG LONG TIME AGO.<P>I agree that you should have her sign a paper saying that they money she is getting for her home is a part of the seperation agreement. Getting a house, moving out, having an A, these are all her choices, and she should have to pay for them.<P>And why in the world is it that she can't spend one night at home alone with her children? Her so called "friends" are anything but, a friend would tell her she is screwing up her life in a major way.

<BR>How much are you willing to take Rick?<BR>Your wife is annoyed with you because you<BR>do not feel it is right to have the OM<BR>come to your home when you are not there so<BR>she can throw a party for her friends. Don't<BR>you see the more you do for her; the more<BR>she disrespects you. You should really ask<BR>why you still want to be with her if she<BR>does not want to be with you. She sounds so<BR>selfish and self-absorbed. I am sure she<BR>now sees you as a backup at best since you<BR>enable her to do all the things she wishes<BR>to do without regard to your feelings. When you wife realizes that you are willing to move on with your life and try to find someone else who is respecting of you; your<BR>wife will either wake up and or gain added<BR>respect for you. You are way to good for her and you deserve so much better. She is no<BR>longer the woman you fell in love with. How much more are you willing to endure? Are you<BR>willing to settle for notes while she is with<BR>another? I think one day you will say enough<BR>and then you will move on to have a fulfilling life with someone who loves you<BR>the way you love her. You deserve it. <BR>

Hi Rick,<P>I have been looking in on your saga here and there. Of course it is asking too much for her to have the OM over. What is she THINKING?? <P>Don't know if hearing this will help you any but I hope it does - you are proving to be the stronger, better person along this road. She is taking the coward's way out. It's easier for some ppl to ease their way out of relationship that will actually take (oh my god) work to fix. That will actually (SHRIEK) require one to keep one's promise. I know, cause I was there. <P>Rick, hang in there. Devote as much time to taking care of you and the kids as you can. YOu are worth it. Coming from a stranger, it might not mean much, but I say it becasue I see your willingness to do everything you can - even if it's killing - to rectify your marriage. That takes strength and courage that most people do not possess.<P>Vent away!<P>Khyra

I have to agree with the others, here Rick.<P>You have a very good heart, yet I think that your wife has seen no boundaries, so she will take take take until she can take no more.<P>I honestly don't think the mind of the betrayer (in MOST cases and when ACTIVELY involved in the affair) can soften to a Plan A in action. (when an affair is in progress, depositing love units is rather fruitless {my case})<P>Let me tell you my experience. I could not tolerate my H's affair, but for a short time I did try to let him know that I was there for him, and in essence, Plan A'd (with all of the bells and whistles). This was because I was afraid of losing him. I did this only because I was so afraid that he might bale.<P>When I had enough, I put my foot down. But the problem is that I believe I waited too long, because I still have so much resentment for what he did. It's very a very common scenario once the betrayed spouse comes back to start reflecting upon the way they treated you. You go through trying to win them back because you truly love them, and then when the dust settles, you have some time to breathe and think about all of the ramifications of what they've done. If this happens (she decides to work on the marriage) you are most likely to go through the same. <P>IMO, the "FOG" is just an excuse. Yes, it happens to betrayers, but everyone has to be held accountable for their actions, and to me this FOG that the betrayer is in is a way of wiping the slate clean to start over. There are reasons why the betrayed stray, but let's face facts. We are all bombarded with life events and we need to make that conscious choice to remain faithful. I see my parents generation, they didn't take marriage lightly and only think of themselves, we can make all of the excuses we want (oh honey, you never picked up the paper in the morning like I asked you to, so I chose to go outside the marriage, can't you understand??)<P>I am all for two partners starting over with counseling and establishing new patterns with one another, but these excuses have to be done away with. We're all adults, and sometimes we make bad choices, but if we choose to make a bad choice, we should immediately try to compensate and rectify it if we have a conscience and love our spouse. Your wife is actively engaged in an ongoing affair and is throwing it in your face. I'm sorry to be blunt, but I've been there too so I hope you don't take my comments are harsh. I just feel as if she needs to see that this will not be tolerated, and LB's?? Lovebusters are (IMO!) definitely not telling your spouse what you WILL NOT put up with, in the way of infidelity and disrespect in this regard.<P>You have to make the call, but if I were you, I would never put up with this type of behavior.

Rick<BR>It sounds like a very difficult situation you are in and I admire your perseverance so far.<BR> <BR>You are the only one that knows how much of this you can take before you lose your love completely for your W. Once again the end results may justify all the hard work, I hope it does. Harley mentions in his book that if you were to be a doormat for 3 months for $1,000,000 could you do it? I know I could, so all you need to do is place a value on the relationship. If everything doesn't work out at least you wont bear any guilt for not giving it your best shot.<BR>As i mentioned we are in similar situations right now except the OM for us is 2000 miles away so I have a distinct advantage. My W is over visting him presently in fact for 5 days whilst I look after our D. <P>Plan A has had for me a definate positive effect. I have come from a state of W having "no feelings for me" to "I love you" all within a period of 4 - 5 weeks.<P>Take care I admire your courage.

I'm sorry Rick but I don't see any thing in your wife's attitude that would led me to believe she has had any change of heart about this whole matter. She's still heavily in the fog...and believe me while in the fog they will do things whether they will hurt you or not...it is a completely selfish time for them (a giver snap as Harley says)...don't expect too much else.<BR>In your expectation you can actually inflict pain on yourself by expect more.<P>You are doing a super Plan A...Lotsva would be proud of you...better Plan A then I could do when H was at home...I alternated between Plan A and wild LBing...finally had to just ask him to leave...before I went insane.<P>So much of this is out of your hands right now...time and exposure to OM full time will have to do the rest...you've done the best you could...it's time for her to face the reality of separtion...and boy is she in for a shock...since you've really been carrying her for months now.<P>I'm sure she doesn't think an agreement is necessary...without one she owes you nothing...why would she want one. Protect yourself...she's not looking out for you.<P>It really does get easier (if WS won't give up OP) to Plan A while separated. It allows you time to prepare for contact and to not have contact when it appears it will be too difficult for you. Gad, living in the same house with WS is impossible...at least it was for me....this is much easier. Gives them a chance to miss you too and not have you there to count on. Boy, is your wife going to miss that.<P>This is hard for you, I know...keep venting...we'll be here.<P>Angels and Prayers ~ Faye<P> <P>

Thank you as usual for taking the time to help me with this.<P>PamO - Maybe I should give him my slippers for Xmas. And the "whatevers" did send me over the edge, but I was at the front door and got the heck out before LBing big time. And ironically, she didn't have her friends over, and why is easy....she would have had to clean the main level, and that just wouldnt' happen, so she went out after I got home.<P><BR>BryanP - I'm not sure how much more I can endure. It would be much simpler if I didn't have kids to think about. Time will tell, but certainly my patience is wearing out.<P>Khyra - your kind words are very much appreciated, doesn't matter that you are a stranger...and people on here are sort of not strangers anyway, if you know what I mean.<P>Sweetpea - I may be moving closer to Plan B, but I can tolerate this for a bit longer. Because she sometimes becomes nicer, it adds a bit of fuel to my Plan A. Some would think I'm nuts, but I think I need to be able to say I did everything. The whatevers are immature, I agree, and so is much of her behavior these days.<P>Kayleigh - I agree with what you are saying, and you are not too harsh. All input is worth hearing, and I too believe that it really should not have to come to this in marriage.<P>inlimbo - I admire your ability to withstand the fact that your W is over visiting OM now. That is gut wrenching and sickening. Thanks for your thoughts again. Nice to hear of Plan A having some positive results. Mine does a bit at times, but seems to go away again.<P>buffy - Thanks for your insight regarding separation, and the whole situation. And for saying Lostva would be proud. I hope she is shocked at separation, when that occurs. Sometimes I think, "OK, thats is, she must leave"....but then I'll go in to check on the kids, and they are sleeping so soundly, and look so cute and comfy in their cosy beds, then I decide to Plan A and tolerate it longer because I don't want to rock their world. I figure I can do anything for them, so I suppose this just falls under that category. If I give up, I'll not know what could have been. Thats one angle anyway. I suppose that having her leave though isn't necessarily giving up, just a different approach towards the same goal.<P>