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Dear weep,<P>I may not be of great help to you tonight. I'm not in the best place this week.<P><BR>You know, it's so easy for an outsider to tell you to forgive. They don't feel our intense pain. They didn't lose someone as important as you did. Their life hasn't been destroyed. You do have to ignore those people. Maybe they are trying to be helpful, but in telling you that its done and over with they are being very insensitive. Your WS may be clinging to them because it validates his feelings of remorse and his desire to make things right. I am sure that he has a lot of guilt to deal with.<P>You can decide to let your anger go. Leave the forgivness to God. Let your anger go because it affects your health, your ability to be the best mother you can be and your chances at happiness. Ultimately, God will be the one to forgive. He knows whether your WS is truly repentent or not. You can choose to let the anger go so that you don't destroy yourself in the process. Do it for YOURSELF and your father. <BR>take care and know that you are in my thoughts and prayers often.<P>cleo

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Dear Hurtinginil,<P>Thanks so much for dropping by with the reassurance. I will try Borders and if I can't find then I would buy through cyber.<P>I do appreciate that other members have taken the time despite their own problems to read through mine and help me with great advice and even validation.<P>I trust that you would know first hand how distant and painful the world is right now and how hollow life seems; I can hear echos through my head and heart and soul. Empty.<P>I have started applying the advice given and will start to do more of the suggestions in the time ahead.<P>I haven't 'met' you, have I? I am usually at other forums although I originated here. How is life with you right now? I have been having problems opening threads and those that I can open have been truncated but would try to open yours again.<P>God bless you<BR>love from weep<p>[This message has been edited by weep (edited December 22, 2000).]

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Dear Wifeofcop<P>Actually I thought I was only angry, bitter, etc., the feeling of resentment was something I thought I never harboured. But I think you are right there about the resentment. Resentment is a very unusual emotion and it is quite difficult to put a finger on. But I do know that I hate (I feel bad that I do but maybe it is a defence mechanism as I had an abusive first marriage) my WS.<P>I seethe, simmer and these terms point to resentment. Thank you again for helping me with your insight and references.<P>I hope your H comes out of the fog and begin to appreciate that in-love feelings can be created (there are books on these as you would know) and it takes two to do so. Commitment takes work.<P>I pray that your H will love you more than himself and be accountable to the wife and family that he has been enrusted with.<P>Godspeed to you<BR>God bless you<BR>love from weep

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Hi again Weep! No, I don't think I've replied to any of your threads before. I lurk a lot, but don't have a chance to post as much as I would like, as I am busy with 3 little ones.<P>Yes, right now, I am just trying to hang in there through the holidays. My H has been having EA/PA since Jan of this year, and Dday was April 2. Since then he's been waffling, and in the last couple of weeks has said he's made his decision to stay and work on our marriage. He says all the right things, but doesn't follow through with breaking all contact with OW. He says he's going to next week. At this point, it's pretty hard to believe anything he says, so we'll just have to see. <P>What I struggle with is putting together a plan for myself, if he doesn't actually break it off. I can't go on much longer this way, and need to take care of myself and the kids.<P>I am with you on the sincere heartfelt thanks to all of the others here that offer their advice and reassurance. With everything going on in their own lives, they care enough to tell me that I am a good person and am doing the right things.<P>Weep, I truly hope you find peace and that you and your H can work through your issues and begin to restore your marriage.<P>Take care---we all love you!

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Dear {{{{{{{cleo}}}}}}}}<P>Sorry to hear that you are not in a good place right now. I have tried to open your thread and others but have been unsucessful and there were incomplete posts and when I tried to post, it didn't reflect anything. That has been happening since I came to this site.<P>I have a strong feeling that other websites have been trying to get in because I often open to other dot.com sites - commercial tactics.<P>I hope all will be well now.<P>Cleo, <BR>Your advice and perspectives are spot on and I feel very comforted to know that I am not this self-centred, unforgiving and unreasonable person. I told the others that they did not lose a beloved father as a result of WS' A. They comforted me that my beloved father accepted Christ on his deathbed. Even my siblings say that and that our beloved father has been disappointed by two SILs already, and that some people are not honourable but we have to be. I mean, how do I keep him as a H knowing what he did to indirectly or directly kill my father? I feel WS can really DETACH himself away from BLAME.<P>Yes, too often people tell me that what is done cannot be undone, accept that and get on with life and not live in the past. They give me illustrations such as how their children disappoint them when they lie or didn't do well at school - HELP! I know they try to be sympathetic but I often say I am sorry, it is not the same as your H having sex with someone other than the wife for 2 years.<P>Cleo, I know you are wise to encourage me to let my anger go and let God take over. I should do that. In the beginning I gave to God my hurts but when I saw my WS being given all the gifts by God such as the Holy Spirit and the support of others even as he says I am sinning and unforgiving, I became angry and hid from God. Then I was misguided to think that God would not listen to my prayers nor bless me because of this person I have become - but HGBrawner pointed out that God is merciful and to seek Him first and have His peace and then to let Jesus work on the anger and other aspects in me.<P>I am beginning to see a consistent pattern to begin afresh, and will keep on till I find a sequence from the wonderful advice I have been given.<P>At this point, I don't see a happy future with my WS except for our young baby. I am praying for God to work in my life and make it shine in all ways so that I become a blessing unto others in the future.<P>I wonder if anyone can tell me why they still love their WS because I don't anymore. I feel good when he is not with me. I feel all the awful emotions when he is with me.<P>Thank you for praying for me, I really appreciate and need that. I will pray for you, too.<P><BR>God bless you and shine upon you<BR>with love<BR>weep<BR>

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weep,<P>In answer to your question as to why we still love our WS, I can only share my reasons. I have spent almost half of my life with this man. He is the father of my 3 children. He has provided for me and is like a son to my parents. I can't imagine not being with him. Even through all of this nastiness, I have had moments where I could see the person that I fell in love with. I suppose that this is what I hold on to. Maybe if you could catch a glimmer of the man you fell in love with, you would be able to feel a little something yourself.<P>I hope this helps.<P>cleo

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weep<BR>I've been away from here for a while but wanted to check in to see if you were doing better.<P>Regarding forgiveness.....I do believe that God expects us to forgive the ones who sin against us just as He has forgiven us when we sin against him. If God, who is perfect and without sin, can forgive me for all the wrongs I have committed against Him, how can I withhold forgiveness from my husband? There are passages in Matthew and Colossians that confirm this. What I would encourage you to do is to talk with your pastor and check out the Bible for yourself. <P>I also believe that forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling. When we make the choice, it doesn't mean that the offense didn't happen or that the offender is "off the hook" for what they did. It doesn't take away the pain or even the anger. It does, however, mean that we are making a choice not to use the offense as a weapon against the person who hurt us. We will never forget, but we will heal.<P>I believe needing answers to some of the questions you have about the affair is normal and within reason. But I also believe that getting those answers won't make everything make sense or even make you feel better. You can get some of the pieces to the puzzle, but it will never become a picture that makes sense.<P>Allowing anger to have too much power in your life gives satan a foothold. Anger will only bring more harm to an already broken spirit. There are constructive ways to deal with anger, but it is also a choice to move beyond it. There is a book called "Getting the Best of Your Anger" by Les Carter....you might want to check it out.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

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Dearest Weep,<P>You have been such a help to me, in regards to generational sin and pointing me to several good sites (withoneaccord, etc.)<BR>I can't offer you advice, only encouragment, maybe some suggestions.<BR>Some things I've learned:<BR>1) You cannot control another person (your husband). You can only be responsible for yourself.<BR>2) My therapist said to "behave your way into feeling for your spouse." That is, do and say kind and positive things for your spouse, even if you have no real feeling behind it. Be as sincere as you can. I didn't believe it, felt it was fake and unnatural, but I tried it. It seems to help your own feelings if done on a consistent basis.<BR>3) Keep going to therapy, if only for yourself. Can't hurt, can it?<BR>4) Cleopatra has given you some great advice. Praying for "the witch" is a good one. One sinner is not any better than another. We are all in the same "sin boat". I found this to be helpful to me when I was working for a very abusive boss. For some strange reason, his behavior seemed to improve after I prayed for him. My wife prays for my OW although she has no affection for her by any means.<BR>5) Beware the root of bitterness that germinates from the seed of anger! It is a stronghold of Satan that you must renounce and repent of. It can and will destroy you and your life! Bitterness and anger at my wife's affair and treatment of me enabled me to go down the destructive path I chose- it can only bring sorrow and despair. Deal with it, please, as best you can!!!!!!! Storm the gates of Heaven for help in this crucial area!<BR>I am praying for you. You have been so good for people here. Keep your chin up! We all care [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>With genuine affection and love,<P>Rockaway<BR>

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dear weep,<P>I've been away, and I see I triggered a thread! I did sense a lot of anger in your posts.<P>Dr. McGraw's writings actually started me on quite a journey of recovery, but not the one on relationship. I think the primary thing is YOUR healing. I read his book, "Life Strategies". I learned (a hard pill to swallow) that I taught others how to treat me, and I have and am learning to set boundaries.<P>You said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>However, I find it very hard to like, let alone forgive and live, with a man who makes a joke of my needing to know what really has gone on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm surprised no one has commented on this. Absolutely! Is he stupid or just unrepentant?<P>The "just forgive" attitude of the church you mentioned is WRONG. Easy for them to say, you are the one who is so hurt! I get angry just reading nonsense like that!<P>I honestly think you should focus more on setting boundaries. Let him know how his joking makes you feel. That is cruel! And how he needs to EARN your trust and goodwill.<P>FORGIVENESS DOES NOT MEAN WE ALL PRETEND THAT NOTHING HAPPENED! WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE CHURCHES?<P>I have studied the Word, back to the original languages and especially this issue. I was abused as a child and struggled with forgiveness all my life.<P>This is what I've found:<P>I need to let go of anger for my own sake, I started out praying for God's justice on my h and his OWs (as well as my abusers). But I didn't want to continue to live with anger. I started to ENJOY instead what the Lord had given me, starting with my two adorable kids.<P>Biblical forgiveness requires the person who wronged you to REPENT. Hopefully with remorse, but at least to recognize the wrongs (plural) they did, and COMPLETELY CHANGE their behavior. Joking about your pain does not show a change!<P>And the church should FIRST support the person who is wronged, not cause you more pain!<P>weep, you are not powerless. Pray for wisdom and strength and decide what you need to do.<P>You don't have to go to that church if they betray you in that way. You DON'T HAVE TO stay in your marriage if your h does not show a total change...A separation may help you truly focus on what you need to heal (and a big clue I learned - my h could not really help that much, I have been on a journey with the Lord and my friends here at MB)><P>But it is scary to realize God expects us to act, prayerfully, but to act.<BR>

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Dear Cleo,<P>I haven't been around much because of the holidays and other stuff, including computer problems. Please excuse my late reply.<P>I am happy to hear that you have such a long history with your H and that you have been able to love him despite the A. I believe that you know the man he was and is and can be. I believe that he has the qualities in the first place to be a good man. Please pray that he falls deeper in love with you. I will pray for beauty in and outwith for you. My friend did that and she is positively glowing now - she had plastic surgery before because of her H's behaviour that led to a very low self esteem. She told me that she decided one day to ask of God to make her beautiful, especially in the eyes of her H. Her H recently told me that he has a beautiful wife - the first time I heard him say that!<P>Cleo, I sadly acknowledge that I have married for the wrong reason this second time. The first time, I married a poor abused orphan out of compassion because he manipulated my feelings and told me that all his life he was treated so badly by everyone and rejected by most because of his background. <P>This time I married a man who said that he has had a miserable life because he never really knew the meaning of happiness as experienced by me. That my world was bright and sunny and that he admired and longed to be with someone that has kind ideals like I have. He seemed to think it is a good way of life to attend to the needs of the disabled like I was doing with my first and ex H (also WS). But once we became married, any attention that I give, even to a disabled old man, is like a betrayal. I stopped visiting the homes.<P>It is ironic that someone so possessive has become a betrayer in the most cruel and hurtful way possible in a marriage. I guess if I were to catch glimpses of why I married him in the first place, I had thought he was a responsible man who would have loved and lived well and helped others less priviledged than himself. Maybe it was all an act and show. I know I made a wrong choice again because the mask dropped soon after we married and I realised that all his time is for himself and what he likes to do and likes to eat and play. <P>I believe that after my first abusive marriage and later a blanc marriage, my second marriage was good in comparison and in my usual optimistic way, I plunged into it and decided to be joyful and thankful. Until his A.<P>I find an empty shell of a man - how can a man who doesn't seem to have a deep soul love another deeply? I am troubled by what I perceive as a lack of value in my spouse. He never treated my family as family before but now he is beginning to appreciate them.<P>I am sad that I have squandered my life on poor choices and believed arrogantly that I could make another happy just because they were more needy and rejected and miserable than others. I should have married the happy, positive, successful, etc. type of man but I rejected all of the good men and settled for the unhappy ones.<P>I know this sounds so pessimistic but it is the truth.<P>Thanks Cleo for always been there for me. I hope you are better, are you?<P>God bless you<BR>love from weep

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Dear HGBrawner,<P>Thank you so much for checking in again {{{{{{HGBrawner}}}}}.<P>I have made a choice to forgive but have not completely forgiven my WS. WS is trying to protect me since day one of his A (according to him) and he would not want to talk about his A anymore because he feels that it is not good for me and the marriage. His story is so twisted and crazy and that is why I needed the pieces to understand what he is about. So, to me, WS is simply delaying the d-day cruel revelations as he jams the brakes on my recovery by saying 'it is nothing. etc.'.<P>I am not sure if I need to forgive OP, especially after what she did to my father. Should my WS forgive OP after what she did to him (kniving, loss of job, broken marriage, etc)? According to Lewis B Smedes of "Forgive and Forget - healing the hurts you do not deserve", a person even has to forgive a parent who has sexually abused him/her as a child so that you are completely healed. <P>I have been to three counselling sessions so far and it has been quite productive in that I am been assured that I don't have to just move on after the tremendous and senseless adultery. The counsellor is trying to help me make some sense of the situation and the parties involved. He has seen many cases of 'trap affairs' and even counselled aggressors. He believed that there are people who have an emotional imbalance that lead to certain behaviours. We haven't gone indepth yet.<P>He also encouraged me to seek out the pastor who healed me of my emotional trauma at a healing ministry for spiritual ministry. I did and the pastor will counsel us in the future in this area.<BR> <BR>HGBrawner, Please pray for the pastor to be greatly annointed by God again to help us, especially the truth of the situation. During the first prayer meeting, the pastor prayed for my anger, confusion and all the curses and negative words that have been said of me. He was very annionted and said "If you need the answers, why don't you ask God? You can ask God to provide the answers." I was touched by God that he would even minister to a pastor my greatest problem. I am praying hard for God to reveal the answers in some way.<P>Some time ago, I was even contemplating calling up the OP and take up on her offer to sit down and tell me the 'truth' of what transpired. <P>My counsellor has recommended a separation to me and I am not sure whether he will tell my WS and I am afraid of WS's reaction since WS has always threatened to kill OP and himself whenever I asked him to separate. But the counsellor is right, I am kept in bondage to WS because of the things he say and do and as well as my baby. I am trapped in a situation where I don't have a choice. <P>I will need to bring the next appointment to a nearer date because it is at the end of the month. I am unable to love my WS. Can one stay in a marriage without love?<P>Blessings,<BR>from weep

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Dearest Rockaway,<P>So happy to hear from you - thank you.<P>How is your situation since the last time? I hope you and your wife are not hanging by your fingernails anymore.<P>Your encouragement and suggestions are a tremendous help. I will stomp the gates of heaven - actually it is more like doing the leopard crawl at a time like this. Just very jaded. But will try to concentrate on my baby and myself and behave more perkily. <P>I understand that I cannot control another person and wouldn't want to. But it is scary to live with someone I can't trust anymore. especially as he is not forthcoming with the information. He is only revealing little morsels when he is pushed to and that is far worse than telling it as it is and all at once.<P>I find it almost impossible to even try to be nice to him anymore because any nice behaviour from me will have him think and say that the marriage is healing and restoring and we can just proceed without any mention of the A at all. So if I were to ask him any other question later, he will be very angry and say that 'everything has been so nice lately and you want to spoil everything again'. To be honest, I really dislike him for that.<P>If you read my reply to HGBrawner just above this, you will know that I am seeking as much help as I can, especially spiritual ministry because I feel so rejected as a result of the A. There have been threats and curses said of me and my baby during the A and after as well. So I need lots of prayers and ministering to help me heal. It has also been revealed that there were evil spiritual forces at play and they were being sought out by OP. I will seek a clarification from the pastor on this again. On one of my threads in POPW, I wrote of a premonition of my baby having an accident upon delivery and it happened but my prayers covered my baby and the tragedy did not play out.<P>I know that the best thing is to surrender all to God and He will reveal the situation and truth in His timing. Meanwhile, I am just so comforted that so many wonderful and wise people care - and I hope that one day I can be a comfort to others as well. As I have been told "don't waste your sorrows".<P>Rockaway, thank you again for your support, love and affection, they mean a lot to me.<P>God bless and shine upon your life<BR>love from weep

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Dear Schizzo,<P>Thank you for 'starting this thread' [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]. I actually needed some answers and encouragement for a while as I was 'hibernating' from others in real life but just didn't find much courage to start a thread at that time. I guess I wasn't sure if my problems were that huge as my WS is still with me and there are others whose WS have left and yet others with OC, etc.. But I recognise that I am far from healed.<P>You said <BR>[quote weep, you are not powerless. Pray for wisdom and strength and decide what you need to<BR> do. /unquote]<P><BR>You are spot on about how I really feel. My counsellor has said that I am in bondage to my WS. The counsellor has suggested a separation to me. This is to help me be free of the negative presence of WS and to allow me to bond with my baby fully without unhappy distractions. etc.. WS hasn't been told and I am sure he would be totally against the idea.<P>WS would often nag me about going to healing and prayer ministries and doing other things that don't point to togetherness, etc..<P>I am now praying for God to help me be successful in a new area of work where I can work from home. WS persuaded me to quit my former great job and since D-day, I have somewhat regretted that but I guess it was for the best since I wouldn't be able to work anyway.<P>I am also thinking of picking up other skills, and like you and Cleo have so wisely advised, things that will help me become the best mother I can be (such as sewing classes - I mean real snazzy sewing and draping [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ). I have now gone out alone to buy furniture for baby and lug home rather heavy pieces of cash and carry stuff. These outings and big as well as bulky item purchases have always been done together with WS. So he is now pissed off with me for doing such things alone! <P>I really think that WS is not a very nice and deep person. He is academically excellent but I doubt that he is wise. So I think he is rather stupid when it boils down to simple everyday things and feelings. More like a conflict avoider. Probably his upbringing as his father was WS several times and he was brought up by an OW (his bio mother told me recently after the OW died). <P>I often feel like giving up because I don't see much value in him. One pastor has advised that I can give him value so that he becomes the man I can love. I think I am just very tired now; can't even look after myself. He really is unrecognisable after the A and he refuses to see the stark reality of the damage he has done because it frightens him, I think. But the way he laughs and mimicks my questions are just so below the belt, it makes me want to throw up or hit him.<P>The truth is, I don't like my WS anymore, don't love him anymore. He is very stubborn and thinks he can self-medicate. He threatens me about dying himself, etc.. I feel so nervous but am coming to a point where I tell myself to numb my fears. If WS were to leave in whatever manner, I know and pray that God will help my baby be whole no matter the marriage. At this point, I am only staying for my baby's sake. But with such a fragile WS, I am making preparations to become independant again.<P>Schizzo, thanks again for thinking about my situation as you read my posts and for caring.<P>God bless you<BR>take care<BR>love from weep<BR>

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Dear Weep,<P>Glad to see you back here. I think you had some of us very worried, given your fragile state of mind.<BR>Thanks for asking about us. We are not out of the dark woods yet, but I see sunlight filtering through the trees, rather than glowering clouds. Thanks to your suggestions concerning spiritual bondage, I believe I am on the right track. I have prayed prayers of renouncement and repentance. My heart no longer feels hopeless and helpless concerning my marriage and our future. Some feeling of affection are returning for my W, although I still deal with feelings of anger, rejection, and mistrust regarding her affair. Sometimes I have real trouble letting that go. She has proven her love for me and committment to our marriage in spite of a relapse I had with OW about a month ago. Could have (should have?)kicked me to the curb but didn't. She was so hurt. I feel that her loyalty has been tested to the limit and she has perservered. Her willingness to stay close to God, work on her faults, and be loyal and faithful to me make me want to give her my best, which means forsaking all others.<BR>I really don't want to be with OW. She has got her wish to be divorced. She is now single and "free". She carries the guilt of a destroyed marriage and a broken but unrepentant husband. I've discovered that she just wants a man, any man, to fill a huge need in her soul and she doesn't care if another family is destroyed to fill her need. She urged me continually to leave my family. I just couldn't do it, and now I am so glad I didn't! She continues to be a nuisance presence in my life because I work with her. I maintain a cordial relationship, but nothing more. She is persistent, tho, so I have to continually keep my guard up and not respond to overtures.<BR>I am putting myself under accountability to another Christian man who has been through a very similar situation and can offer up prayers and encouragment at a moment's notice, day or night. I am so grateful for an understanding voice in my life.<BR>I have discovered that I have a spirit of lust and now see that I have often attracted women with a similar spirit, something which has plagued me for years. This is something I still struggle with more than ever because my walls have been broken and because I am more aware of these things.<BR>Your situation sounds so bleak. I don't know what to say. Can you maybe take a "vacation" (read: separation) from your spouse and situation to help give you perspective? My parents used to separate us quarreling kids for a "timeout" which seemed to usually diffuse a volitile situation. Don't know if that is practicable in your situation tho. How does Plan A or Plan B fit here? What do you think?<BR>Blessings my friend. Let me know your thoughts.<BR>Rockaway, a.k.a. Pilgrim <p>[This message has been edited by rockaway (edited January 08, 2001).]

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weep,<P>I'm glad to see you here again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>One pastor has advised that I can give him value so that he becomes the man I can love. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What did he mean by that???<P>Probably the biggest thing I have learned through all this is that I can only really change myself. My spouse is who he is.<P>So if he meant, you can see more value by looking and dwelling on the positives, I agree. But if he meant that you can infuse him or change him, WRONG.<P>For me this crisis was about much more than the affair. It has caused me to reevaluate every area of my life, and I have felt the freedom Biblically to divorce if that seemed best. While children need their daddy very much more than society says, I'm not sure that staying just for the kids is really good for them.<P>weep, you are a very smart woman. Have you ever studied the Word for yourself with good commentaries like Tyndale or Expositor's? I started doing that years ago, going back to the original languages and studying for myself.<P>I don't want to take any of the benefits of healing/deliverance away from you if it helps you cope with all this. But what I found in the Word, and my current pastor teaches is much more in line with the teaching of Dr. McGraw (who I don't know whether he is a Christian).<P>I am looking at my life and praying for wisdom and strength, knowing I must act. That to do nothing is still an action. I'm not waiting for the Lord to do it or for deliverance. I pray for wisdom to make decisions and strength to live them out.<P>Most decisions are not clear moral commands - like don't steal, love your neighbor. If God has a blueprint of my life, he hasn't shown it to me. It seems rather, that I must make it up as I go and live within the principles taught in the Word.

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weep, just wanted you to know your are always in my prayers. hang tough, okay.

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Weep,<P>I hope your holidays were peaceful. It seems that things here are getting better. Even though I am in recovery, I am reverting back to plan A while we do this 20 week course with Dr. Harley. It's a follow up to the weekend seminar. I do feel better when I plan A and I get better results. <P>You know, I can tell just from our conversations that your are a kind person. I can understand your desire to help people less fortunate than yourself. It makes sense then that you would be attracted to a man that needs your help. You should not beat yourself up over those decisions. You have a special kind of love for your fellow man that not very many people share these days. You said that your H was interested, at one time, in helping the less priviledged. Could the two of you start visiting homes together? I know that it would not seem enjoyable at first but maybe after a few times, you could see some of the things you liked about your relationship before you got married. Dr. Harley describes it as forming new habits and how much we have to practice those habits before they become second nature. My H was politically active. He excluded me from this during the A. We have decided that this is something we can do together. It gives us some time together and we form common interests. Go back to the things you used to do together and try a couple of them. I am sure you will be hesitant but its worth a shot.<P>Your life is not squandered! You have a family, however broken it may seem. It is not your responsibility to fix this man. That is his job. Your responsibility is to fix yourself and to be a good mother. You know, we are called to love like Jesus. That means unconditionally, nonjudgemental. I think this is the most difficult thing to learn. It would bring you great peace. Expect nothing from your H and love him unconditionally. You may be suprised. I will pray that God opens his heart.<P>I am not sure how far you live from Minnesota but Dr. Harley is doing another weekend seminar this month and it was worth every penny for us to travel there. Have you considered this? He follows the weekend with a 20 week course on the HN/HN and Lovebusters. There is also a private forum here where you can talk with him directly. He answers every letter! <BR>I sincerely wish the best for you and your family. I know that you have been through a terrible ordeal and that it has been compounded by the loss of your father. I am so sorry for that. Weep, I feel that you and your H have a chance. You are a strong Christian. Use your faith to heal your marriage even if you feel despair right now.<P>take care, <P>cleo

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weep,<P>Hope you are ok. His joking about this awful thing that hurt you so bad is so out of line. Is he a mean person?<P>Although we are taught to forgive, there has to be repentance. I still cannot believe he is joking about your pain! Makes me mad!<P>I have always wondered if the story you posted, how the affair went on because of her blackmail was really true. Is he just painting himself as the victim?<P>To threaten to take his own life is cruel and selfish. Have you read Dobson's book about tough love? I think some situations call for setting boundaries rather than plan A.

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Dear Weep,<BR> <BR> I can feel the pain in your post,and feel like "weeping" myself after reading it.<BR> God bless you and your family.May you find true peace and forgiveness in Jesus Christ.<BR> Love and Prayers,beth

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Dear {{{{Rockaway}}}}<P>Sorry to hear of your problems.<P>Thank you for your update, and I am very happy that you have seen the true colours of OW. I am also very happy that you have done the deliverances and that you recognise that a wise man cannot be in slumber as there are too many snares out there.<P>I really am spiraling down and was rather out of control last month when WS was at his worst offensive (he uses attack as the best strategy) and kept at me about my failed past relationship and all the below the belt stuff to put me off his case. He would also blame his current state of stress on me even though his A caused him his job, etc.. I was climbing out onto the balcony ledge to jump when he pulled me back in time. Then I went to get a knife to slash the portrait painting of us. I really feel that I was in a hopeless situation. <P>A separation would be good for me. The problems with that would be WS's objections and the finances and the house, etc.. But he is such a drain on my energy, he sucks all the goodwill out of me and I can't fathom how I am ever going to care for this man. He cares only about himself and how he is suffering and suffered the A. He feels that he really wants us or he will not be home.<P>I am happy when he is not at home but once he is back, I am filled with dread. But it may be worth it for the sake of the baby. I still am not sure at this point.<P>Rockaway, how important was it that you told your wife the whole truth about the A, as well as your feelings? Was it important for you to hear the truth from your wife about her A? Did you lie about anything? I am sorry to have to ask you these because I need to know that my WS is truthful about the A so that at least I will be able to start to trust a little of what he says now. For instance even his compliment that I have a nice figure makes me cringe and my 'liar radar' goes up and I still feel so ugly and second best since his A. I know I am not ugly but for your spouse to have an A, it makes me feel that there must be something special with the OP and that I am no longer special, exclusive and chosen. Even though he claims he was pissed drunk and all his defences were down. <P>Rockaway, have you been drunk before? My counsellor said he was never in that situation and was therefore unable to answer that question. One member SS1221 answered that question before but he actually passed out and awoke to find he was being assaulted. Maybe this is irrelevant but WS puts so much weightage on this factor. He said that he has met much more attractive women but have been able to resist them because he was sober. <P>I am especially troubled these past weeks because I am thinking about the future and whether I will be able to support my family if WS were to live out his threats to die or if we were to separate. Actually my personal expenditure is not a problem because WS doesn't give me a dime. I live on my savings or force him to pay my miniscule credit card bills or ask him for some money to buy groceries. He pays for the mortgage and I have to force him to go with me to shop for stuff for the home or myself if I want him to pay. He pulls an angry face often and it really is a drag to go shopping with him. <P>There really isn't much left to kill this relationship. <P>He agreed to give me some allowance when I agreed to quit my career to look after my lovely baby. He doesn't give me a dime although he has a new job.<P>Rockaway, please pray for me that the Lord will bless my work and the business/es or output I embark on. I will pray for you and your wife to become healed and whole again. Maybe you can both rededicate your vows in church, have some new photos taken and start the real new millennium living God's will in your lives - peace, love and joy. Thank you.<P>Blessings <BR>from weep<P>

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