Dear friends<P>I am trying to be in Plan B and finding it difficult - mainly because h keeps on contacting (and it IS Christmas). Usually I post when I am on the down slope - and I was a long way down 36 hours ago. Maybe I am just up at the moment and about to go over the top - but I am going to keep this up going throughout Christmas if I can. <P>I know that a lot of us are in deep pain right now and I am posting because I just want to remind us that if we can find he strength to go uphill simple things can bring us pleasure. So this is what happened today -<P>I resolved a very difficult issue at work today and was admired for my skills and persistence in bringing the matter to a atisfactory closure ( guess where I got some of those skills!!!)<P>I put on impromptu and informal drinks at work tonight ( I thought, I am the boss so why not??)- invited about a dozen people suggesting they bring one or two colleagues - and about 40 turned up !! - we laughed a lot and shared the years "horror stories" - some of them at my expense!!<P>My hairdresser told me I looked beautiful (!!-yes, I know it is his job!!!) - and I giggled withthe teenage assistants about the new Charlies Angels - yes, I giggled!!<P>I made an appointment for a HALF DAY beauty treatment next week - expensive but what the hell; I suppose I invested the $$'s I could have spent on H's Christmas present on ME !<P>I went shopping - it is v. hot here and everyone was loking tired and frazzled under the shop lights - so I made a BIG effort to be friendly, courteous and positive; the shop assistants responded beautifully and I joined in the shopping centre Christmas carols - happily<BR> <BR>I have not switched on my answering service because i do not want to hear from H (sometimes it is the first thing i do when I come in the door!) and have not opened my e-mail.<P>And now, I am going to use some of my new bath salts (oops, another present for me, from me) and sleep well.<P>I hope you dont mind me sharing this - it is just so dammed good to feel Ok - even if it doesonly last a short time - one day at a time is OK for me.<P>R<BR>

R,<P>Sometimes its those little things that make us feel we can survive.<P>I had a similar day last Thursday. I had 2 Christmas parties, one for work and another one right after. I went and had fun and never thought of my current siuation. It was such a releif to be me, not the dragged down waiting for my H to speak to me , me. It just felt like I had myself back for a little while. I joined in the jokes, laughed, ate too much, went to bed too late, and it felt wonderful!<P>Maybe it is a glimpse of what we can have once we are through with the infidelity process.. grief or recovery, whitchever way it turns out.<P>hugs to you,<BR>Lora

Rosebrook,<P>What a great post...good idea. I'll share one too.<P>My first ever holiday without my kids was this last Thanksgiving. My H took them out of town with his very large family (they have been my family for 24 years). I was NOT invited. My best friend sent me a first class ticket to visit her and her family in Denver...I flew alone (gulp!) for the first time in my life.<P>I was hurting while I was there. Missing my family terribly. One evening another couple and their kids stopped by the house. We all sat and talked and laughed and had a glass of wine. Nothing big, just relaxed. I went outside after a few hours and it dawned on me that I forgot to be miserable for a few hours. I had actually enjoyed myself!!! This was some sort of weird turning point for me. I discovered that I still have it in me to have fun...I sort of dropped my self-imposed moniker of shame I carry around. <BR>I carry around this image of myself as the "dumped wife"...yep, get a lot of sympathy for this...pays off big. But you know what, people treat me just the same...I'm still in there somewhere. The woman that loves to laugh and have fun and be adventurous and see new things is still in there, under all those layers of sadness. I used to like her, and I am slowly finding her again...thank God.<P>So, good for you for turning the corner, and even better for you for recognizing that you did. The good moments may be fleeting at first, but I agree with Lora, I think we are getting a little gift now and then of seeing how he can be once we let ourselves let go of some of this sorrow.<P>We will get through this Holiday...we will be able to say to ourselves that we did our very best...we will be sad and lonely, but as long as we can find a moment, now and then, to let it go...we will be ok.<P>allison

Rosebrook -<P>Good for you! I think your post was wonderful. Even when things are going good, little stuff can bring you down, too. But, you reminded me that it's all about attitude. Keep that positive side up, and you'll have many, many more days like this one, I promise!

Hi Rosebrook,<P>It appears that you and I have much in common, discounting the obvious. My H, too is a Viet Nam vet and we have been married for close to 23 years. He also got entangled with someone much younger.<P>It sounds like you're at where I was this time last year. My H had up and moved out and rented an apartment 200 miles away but 5 minutes from OW. When he left (I found out he was leaving me by coming home from work to a UHaul parked in our driveway), I told him that I thought it best that we didn't have any contact. Plan B. Well, he sent me Christmas cards (one was from the Cat), called me at work, called me at home, and eventually was driving up every week to see me. He wasn't gone but a month and was already hinting about coming back. Finally as his six month lease end neared, he began to have neurological problems-- he said he was tripping, having visual blackouts, and memory problems. He told me he wanted to reconcile and eluded to breaking up with OW. I should have been more cautious because he never came out and actually said it was over, but I was worried about his health and let him come back.<P>I made sure he got in to to see a doctor right away and he had extensive physical testing, that basically turned up nothing but evidence of an old head injury. He was finally referred to a psychiatrist who diagnosed him with depression, organic mood disorder and post traumatic stress.<P>He is currently in counseling & his therapist thinks we should divorce. I met with her a few times as a couple & it was pretty obvious to me what her opinion is. The doctor had him on three types of medications for depression, mood swings and anger. H decided to stop all of them (cold turkey) about two weeks ago.<P>Meanwhile he is still involved with OW. He's been back six months now and there have been four occassions where he just took off for a few days, sometimes telling me he was going out of town, other times simply disappearing.<P>What I have finally concluded is that my H is very ill. After reading about the different types of personality disorders, I think he has Borderline Personality disorder. All the symptoms fit- his impulsivity, his lack of empathy, he sees things only in black and white, his difficulty in maintaining relationships (he has no friends). And, I believe his mother has it too.<P>Right now, I am really struggling with what to do. If I stay with him, I'll probably have a miserable existence. Yet, I'm really fearful of what will happen to him if I leave. He insists that this "thing" with OW is not long term, and he says he's resigned himself to having to live a solitary existence. He told me this week that he considered me his "perfect match" and if he can't sustain a relationship with me, then he can't with anyone. I worry about the possibility of suicide as he has mentioned it before as a "solution".<P>He is very pessimistic about our chances of ever recovering. He seems to think it's hopeless. He has given up, basically. On our marriage and on life.<P>I sure hope that I didn't bring you down as that certainly isn't my objective. I just want you to know that you are not alone-- there are many of us 'walking the walk'.<P>This week, I purchased "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil McGraw. It's wonderful! I think you would really enjoy reading it. I wish now that I would have read it last year, when this all began.<P>One of his main premises is that most likely when your relationship derails it's because you've "lost" yourself. So, what you are doing for "You" is exactly what you should be doing. You need to refind yourself.<P>Hang in there, Rosebrook. It's a long and painful journey but you will learn much about yourself along the way.

Rosebrook,<BR>Congratulations on having a good day! It's nice to hear positive results around here. I usually post on emotional needs, but I always check this board too because I see people making progress under such dismal circumstances. Someday I need to spend less time here. For now, I can't get through a day without MB!<P>Sydney, thank you so much for posting on this thread. I too am married to a Vietnam vet. He refuses counselling, and he needs it! PTSD is undiagnosed but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have it. You mentioned something I've never heard of -- organic mood disorder. What on earth is that???? <P>I knew when I dated my H that his Vietnam experience changed him for the worse. I often long to know the person he might have been without Vietnam. I promised myself that I would love him no matter what. I didn't know it would break my heart and my soul. I've decided the price is too high. I also worry what will happen to him without me. I think he'd end up under a bridge. I don't want that to happen, but I will no longer sacrifice my sense of self worth in the name of marriage either. I moved out on Monday. He continues to be disinterested in me. It hurts more than words can describe. Well, I'm preaching to the choir. duh You know what I'm saying. <P>I'd like to suggest a topic for reading that might be of help. Learn about grieving. I'm sure there's lots of material on it, but the place that really struck home for me was in "Celibate Wives: Breaking the Silence". My choice of reading material speaks volumes about what I'm experiencing. One of the chapters explains the process of grieving, and the loss of important marital components necessitates the need for grieving. Becoming informed about grieving can accelerate the healing process. It helped me tremendously. Everyone on this thread has experienced various aspects of "losing the marriage". Grieving that loss is necessary. The more you know about it, the faster you can achieve the final stage -- acceptance. <P>My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Rosebrook, I hope you don't mind me taking over your thread here for just a minute.<P>I've many times wondered how many of us here are wives of Viet Nam vets.<P>Lonesome Heart,<P>In answer to your question about mood disorders, here is a website that has some information explaining the different types:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.mentalhealth.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.mentalhealth.com/</A> <P>Mood disorders can be major depression, bipolar depression, as well as a couple of others. Personality disorders can be paranoia, schizophrenia, borderline, narcissistic, etc. Many of them are classified "organic" meaning they are not just psychological in nature but have to do with a chemical imbalance in the brain as well.<P>I'm so sorry to hear that you finally had to move out and away from your H. I respect you for having the strength and courage to do so. I know how hard it must have been for you. I, too, am teetering on the edge of doing the same thing. The only thing that's keeping me here, at the moment, is that my H is in therapy, although he's not taking any medication. <P> At first, my H was very reluctant to see a psychiatrist because of the stigma and he worried about the expense. He was insulted when I first suggested it. So, I began by getting him into our PCP so that the doctor could run some tests. There are psycholgical problems that are due to physiological conditions, so at the very least bloodwork should be done to rule out anything like that. Even a vitamin deficiency can have disasterous effects on one's mental functioning. Then, once he developed a relationship with the doctor, he went along with him when he referred him to a shrink. I also started him out with a male doctor who was older and a crusty sort of guy who got "in his face" and told it like it is. You may have more luck getting your H to comply if you can find a doctor like that because ex-military types have respect for and understand authority, if nothing else. You also might check with the VA and see if they have any resources available. I never looked into that because I had medical coverage through my employer.<P>My H and I have talked about divorce and a property settlement. I can tell that he really doesn't want that, and that I will have to be the one who files, if we go that route. He is so downtrodden, so pessimistic, and when we discuss divorce he always says it will be the "best for me". It's like his spirit is gone, and nothing's left but an empty shell. Of course, my friends think he's simply manipulating me, and that I should leave him.<P>There are times when I doubt my sanity & wonder if I have a firm grip on reality or whether my judgement is clouded by denial. I find myself grasping at the smallest straws. Like even though he took off last weekend to rescue OW, he did tell me that he refused her offer to spend two weeks with her and her kids up north. Instead, he chose to spend Christmas with me. He insists on sleeping with me at night, and most of the time has his arms wrapped around me. He kisses me when he leaves for work. And, there are presents under the Christmas tree from him.<BR>Lately, the time we do spend together is enjoyable.<P>My gut instinct is that he IS trying to reconnect, but that he is really afraid.<P>Sorry this is so long. Here is my email address, if you'd like to correspond: skibears12@aol.com. I notice that you live in Texas, too! I'm in the northern part, where are you?<P>Thanks, Rosebrook! Hope you're having another wonderful day!!!