Thanks for all the good advice. I am new to posting on MB, but I have visited MB since D-day 1999. I just posted my story for the first time on Divorcing/Divorced, and I would appreciate any input you all might have.

I am at this point, the point of Plan B. I am scared, terrified actually, that I will loose H forever, but then I don't have him anyway.<p>I've plan A since 26 Jan 02, the lat few weeks have made a change. H even said we were working on our marriage, but yesterday he says he's still ****ed up that Ow is a nice person and that he can't decide. I've had lots of positive feedback from him, but I just don't have the commitment (from him to our M) that I need.<p>I've told him how much I love him, I've told him I will live by his decision. He has seen the changes and noticed them.<p>But he says he's not thought about our M a lot at all. I think he's just stalling.<p>I am finding harder and harder to not press him for a decision. I am tiring, I am stressed and sad and feel I can't do this anymore.<p>So how do I work out a plan B that I am confortable with? Can you plan B with contact only re financial or house issues? Can you plan B without a go between? Can I plan B without the big separation deal or do you really have to do it big time, like the financial, absolutely no contact, etc?<p>I am more fortunate than some in that I do not have kids (except for the dog [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ), so imagine it will be much easier for me in that really I don't have to have much contact with him, but its also easier for him to say goodbye too.<p>Again, I am very frightened. Your thoughts would be appreciated. I will post a plan B letter on GQII soon.

THANKS MTHRRHBARD!<p>I am proud of me [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>INTHECLOUDS320<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: INTHECLOUDS320 ]</p>

Anyone care to comment about this?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Spacecase Quote:
"Some old-timers here have said that if an A does not end upon discovery or very soon thereafter, the odds of Plan A working are almost zero"<hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>mthrrhbard Quote:
Here is where there is a HUGE misunderstanding about Plan A. Plan A is NOT designed as a way to win back your WS! It's purpose is to make you the more attractive option should your WS come to the conclusion that the A may really not be what it's cracked up to be. It's to make you a better you.<hr></blockquote><p>I did not mean to imply that the decision to commit to the M and work on it was the RESULT of Plan A; rather that some WSs will realize their mistake pretty much upon discovery and other won't (before Plan A is even in place). In the case of those who don't, it has been said here by several old-timers, that the odds of their realizing their mistake and commiting to the M during Plan A (DURING Plan A, not as a result of Plan A) are next to zero; that in those cases, Plan B is almost always a necessary step in the process.<p>And my question was whether this is pretty much the case, if you agree or not, and why?

Wow lot's more showed up! That's great!<p>Hi Orchid!
I'm glad I helped in some small way. It's so hard to sort through everything that's happening when it's happening. You've done such a great job and you're such a blessing to this site.<p>Oh, and the horror, I experienced it too, big time! The thought of being a single mom with three kids and dealing with my multiply handicapped son all on my own was horrifying to say the least. But I had to show him I could do it. No way was I willing to share so I figured the sooner I pulled it together the better. God only knew how long it would take H to see the light or if he even would and God wasn't letting me in on the secret. He was in fact trying to refine me and make me stronger and teach me some hard lessons that I am the better for now. I see you know all about those lessons now. They are priceless and will remain with us forever no matter what happens in our marriages in the long run. It's satisfying to know I am a better person because of all of this even though it hurt more than almost anything else I've ever gone through. I know you share that with me. Glad to see you post! God bless you and H!<p>Nikko<p>I can understand not wanting to be stuck. IMO a marriage that suffers an affair dies, a new marriage has to be born and replace the old, sick one in order to be fulfiling. At least that's how I felt, so I can understnad your feelings.<p>I think Plan B can apply in your situation. Afterall, after you do a good Plan A and H doesn't make any moves to improve the situation what are your options? You either grin and bear it or you see to it that there is a consequence to H chosing to do nothing. Now what you chose that consequence to be is entirely up to you but lots and lots of WS don't think that BS is serious until it becomes a reality that BS has had enough and they just might lose what they've taken for granted. Good luck to you!<p>Hi Chris,<p>Another Harley success story! Saw your post about your D. Kids are sooo smart. It still hurts when they have to learn lessons such as the one she's had to learn about her mother. Hopefully it will make d a great wife and mother some day. She's sure got the best of dads!<p>Oh and yes, Plan B is far from simple!<p>Ok Spacecase, sorry it took me so long to get back here. I do agree with that statement that if WS doesn't "get it" soon after discovery that Plan B is likely to be necessary, especially if the affair is being flaunted right under your nose.<p>I agree because, not many can (or should, it's not healthy, IMHO) endure the tremendous pain of a WS continued A and live day to day with that person.I just can't think of anything much more painful and gut wrenching than that.<p>The other reason I agree is because I think there are mainly three kinds of WS ( of course there are exceptions). One is the WS that is a decent human being, they've become depressed, are having a midlife crisis and have had their EN's neglected for some time and they've had an affair to try to feel better. They've anguished over what they've done, they've been conflicted and upon seeing the emotional hell that their behavior has brought to the beloved BS upon d-day, is even more conflicted and distressed. I think this kind of WS may not need Plan B or if they do( or their BS does) they respond readily to PlanB or other remedies such as 180 or acting "as if" divorce is eminent. When a WS's motivation for an A is simply to "feel better" I think it's easier for them to "feel better" about a BS who quickly admits their imperfection, remains comitted to the marriage (despite the Ws's huge mistake) and diligently goes about making lasting Plan A changes.<p>Then I think there are WSs who are generally selfish, self-centered individuals who give little thought to the consequences of an A and want to just have a good time. They think they are entitled and deserve it. Their ENs may have been neglected but they themselves are probably guilty of playing a big part in that themselves. It's hard to keep giving to someone who doesn't give back much. I myself wonder if these kinds of situations are worth saving. I will admit though that in my years here and in life I have seen these kinds of selfish individuals change dramaticaly when they are up against losing their families for good. Again, there has to be a consequence to the affair behavior and the BS in this kind of situation has to be very strong and have solid boundaries in place before a marriage with this type of WS can truly move into recovery. There's lots and lots of repair work to be done in these situations individually and as a couple.<p>Lastly, I think there are WS who are sociopathic, narcisistic individuals who go from relationship to relationship leaving a trail of destruction wherever they go. Plan A certainly won't have an effect on these types of WS and Plan B surely won't either.<p>So that is why I personaly believe in a shorter version of Plan A. If you have the conflicted spouse in my first example, if Plan A doesn't work in a reasonable period (individual thing there)Plan B is likely to produce the desired results of yanking WS out of the fog. If you have #2 then the faster you get to plan B the better as they've got to experience the natural consequences of continuing in an affair. And if you have example #3 then the faster you get to Plan B the faster you can have a new life and a healed self. All of this with the usual disclaimer......JMHO! Good luck to you!<p>Hi Lor!<p>Happy Anniversary! 19 years is nothing to sneeze at these days ! A great accomplishment for you and Guard. May God continue to bless you both.<p>I do agree that Plan A does throw a wrench in that altered revisionist history thinking of WS. I can't think of many instances where Plan A should be left out, except maybe in cases of abuse.<p>Llynmacd<p>Will check out your post in D/D<p>Seahorse<p>Wow you sound sooo much better than when I followed your first post on JFO! Good job at hanging in there. You know sometimes when we hang onto a WS too tightly they slip through our finger like a handful of sand we try to grab. If we just open up our palm the sand sits there quite nicely. It's no consolation to have part of a spouse. Marriage is exclusive. You can't make H get to the point of realizing that. However if he has to experience the natural consequences of his continued behavior maybe that at least has a chance at influencing him.<p>Thanks everyone for the added feedback to this "old" thread.<p>God bless us and keep us all!<p>[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: mthrrhbard ]</p>

^ for Spacecase. I didn't want you to think I hadn't answered you!

Thank you, M!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Ok Spacecase, sorry it took me so long to get back here. I do agree with that statement that if WS doesn't "get it" soon after discovery that Plan B is likely to be necessary, especially if the affair is being flaunted right under your nose.<p>I agree because, not many can (or should, it's not healthy, IMHO) endure the tremendous pain of a WS continued A and live day to day with that person.I just can't think of anything much more painful and gut wrenching than that.<p>The other reason I agree is because I think there are mainly three kinds of WS ( of course there are exceptions). One is the WS that is a decent human being, they've become depressed, are having a midlife crisis and have had their EN's neglected for some time and they've had an affair to try to feel better. They've anguished over what they've done, they've been conflicted and upon seeing the emotional hell that their behavior has brought to the beloved BS upon d-day, is even more conflicted and distressed. I think this kind of WS may not need Plan B or if they do( or their BS does) they respond readily to PlanB or other remedies such as 180 or acting "as if" divorce is eminent. When a WS's motivation for an A is simply to "feel better" I think it's easier for them to "feel better" about a BS who quickly admits their imperfection, remains comitted to the marriage (despite the Ws's huge mistake) and diligently goes about making lasting Plan A changes.<p>Then I think there are WSs who are generally selfish, self-centered individuals who give little thought to the consequences of an A and want to just have a good time. They think they are entitled and deserve it. Their ENs may have been neglected but they themselves are probably guilty of playing a big part in that themselves. It's hard to keep giving to someone who doesn't give back much. I myself wonder if these kinds of situations are worth saving. I will admit though that in my years here and in life I have seen these kinds of selfish individuals change dramaticaly when they are up against losing their families for good. Again, there has to be a consequence to the affair behavior and the BS in this kind of situation has to be very strong and have solid boundaries in place before a marriage with this type of WS can truly move into recovery. There's lots and lots of repair work to be done in these situations individually and as a couple.<p>Lastly, I think there are WS who are sociopathic, narcisistic individuals who go from relationship to relationship leaving a trail of destruction wherever they go. Plan A certainly won't have an effect on these types of WS and Plan B surely won't either.<p>So that is why I personaly believe in a shorter version of Plan A. If you have the conflicted spouse in my first example, if Plan A doesn't work in a reasonable period (individual thing there)Plan B is likely to produce the desired results of yanking WS out of the fog. If you have #2 then the faster you get to plan B the better as they've got to experience the natural consequences of continuing in an affair. And if you have example #3 then the faster you get to Plan B the faster you can have a new life and a healed self. All of this with the usual disclaimer......JMHO! Good luck to you!<hr></blockquote><p>I think you've made a very, very accurate assessment of the types of WSs, (sure, there will be other varieties, and special circumstances), and more importantly, your assessment of the probability of requiring Plan B for each type.<p>My WW is a category 2, and I fully expect that unless Steve H can work some miracle very soon, Plan B will be the route I will have to take.<p>Thank you for taking the time to answer all of us; I feel this thread will be very helpful to many visitors for a long time to come!

Spacecase said:<p><strong>Anyone care to comment about this?
In the case of those who don't, it has been said here by several old-timers, that the odds of their realizing their mistake and commiting to the M during Plan A (DURING Plan A, not as a result of Plan A) are next to zero; that in those cases, Plan B is almost always a necessary step in the process.
</strong><p>v. interesting - looks like this is my case too. WW shows no remorse at all - but writes to OM 'I'm not regretting having met H [ie, me], but I'm not regretting having met you'. Fogese at its best of course.<p>Anyway, is the fact that plan B is ALWAYS necessary if WW is not remoursful, something that the 'old timers' around here can confirm?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nick123:
<strong>Spacecase said:<p>[qb]Anyone care to comment about this?
In the case of those who don't, it has been said here by several old-timers, that the odds of their realizing their mistake and commiting to the M during Plan A (DURING Plan A, not as a result of Plan A) are next to zero; that in those cases, Plan B is almost always a necessary step in the process.
</strong><p>v. interesting - looks like this is my case too. WW shows no remorse at all - but writes to OM 'I'm not regretting having met H [ie, me], but I'm not regretting having met you'. Fogese at its best of course.<p>Anyway, is the fact that plan B is ALWAYS necessary if WW is not remoursful, something that the 'old timers' around here can confirm?[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Nick; read M's response to me right above your post. And always remember never to use always and never!

back to the top! ^

i think its time for this thread to come back up.....