When I found out about the A, I tried to convince my H how unreal it was and that he should focus on our marriage only to be told that he didn't love me, never did, the usual stuff....I continued to try for a while and then went into hate mode. I use logic all the time with him and tell him that I do not want to be second choice (just because he can't have the OW). There is nothing he can say to me to make be feel valued. Now my H is "trying" to work on our marriage, but it is a one way street because I have nothing left to give him. I don't feel any love and just want to leave. Is this a normal part of this cycle?<P>I would also add that I know I need to "forgive" and am ready to do so, but that I would be forgiving only to move on in my own life, not because I feel love for him.<P>I feel like a rock.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would also add that I know I need to "forgive" and am ready to do so, but that I would be forgiving only to move on in my own life, not because I feel love for him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LL,<BR>First, I don't think you need to feel love for your H to forgive. We forgive people all the time that we don't feel love for. It's the people that we do love that are so hard to forgive. I guess what I'm saying is that the "numb" state you are going through is probably a stage, and does not mean you do not love your H. I suspect that, like me, you are continuing to deal with the shock of the betrayal. I think we go through that "honeymoon" phase when we desperately want to reconnect, the anger phase when we hate our S for what they've done to us, and the numb phase, when we just don't know. Being numb is bad though, maybe worse than being angry. When we're numb we go into a shell, and can't be the person we want to be, we cant take care of ourselves, or our children. We've got to get out of it, and we begin to see that we have to forgive, if only for our own sanity. If this is where you are, that's where I am too.<P>I've noticed from your posts that your dday was close to mine, I'm at 5 1/2 months. I know too that your H put you through a very tough time after you found out. Maybe you weren't able to go through that reconnecting phase I spoke about. I feel bad for that, the continued rejection must have been horrible for you. It's no wonder you've dealt with so much pain, and anger.<P>I've also read in your posts that you were raised in an alcoholic home. Learning Life, I was too, and my heart really goes out to you. Those of us who had an alcoholic parent suffer terrible pain over our spouses betrayal. All the deep pain we thought we had buried comes back to us. After all, we were betrayed by our own parents when we were innocent children. I gave up drugs and alcohol 14 years ago, turned my life around, and thought I had "gotten over" my childhood. When I found out about my W, my world fell apart. I've read your posts LL, you sound like me. I attacked my W. I called her names. I felt completely justified in my anger. When she took all my abuse, and still said she loved me, I felt empty. I thought "don't I deserve better than this?" I think I've still been looking for my W to fix a part of me that was broken long before I met her. <P>We're starting to make some progress. My W is working very hard on dealing with her issues, and is beginning the process of making ammends for her behavior. For myself, I've had to be willing to face my stuff. Untill I started to, we couldn't get anywhere. <P>Now one of the really tough things for me is that it's just not fair. I <B>don't</B> deserve to have this happen, but I have to face the fact that I'm going to have to deal with this pain whether I stay in the marriage or not. It's a terrible burden they've placed upon us, but if you've been around recovery at all you probably know the serenity prayer. This is definitely something we cannot change. When I finally accepted this, I cried my eyes out. It's OK to cry for what you've lost you know. This is a hurt we will carry LL, we have to accept it. <P>God works in mysterious ways LL, and I know that there was usually a good reason for the things that have happened to me. I suspect that like me you've been living a life seriously held back by the unresolved pain of being a child of an alcoholic. Maybe what's happening now was the only way you were going to be able to go deep down where you really need to go to heal. <P>Miracles can happen. I thought we were pretty hopeless a month ago, and now I have hope. I'm starting to feel some excitement for where we are going. I would really encourage you to go to Al-anon, and share there. I do twice a week, and it really helps. Also I'm going to recommend a book that was passed on to us by a wonderful friend here. It's called "Just Like Jesus", by Max Lucado. I'm not what you would call religious, and it is a Christian book, but the truth about forgiveness just went right to my heart. This one small book has done more for me than the huge pile I have next to my bed. I have several books on forgiveness, but they don't help when we can't forgive, or don't want to. I truly want to forgive now, and I'm getting there.<P>Take it easy LL. Remember, one step at a time. <P>David <BR>

Davidb, just read your reply and I am interested in what you feel your issues are regarding being an ACOA. My H is a ACOA. Both his parents are now recovered but he went thru alot when youger. He is youngest. His oldest sibling is 17 years older than he. He is now in counseling for himself and I know he has issues but I am wondering if the issues of being an ACOA are related to himm having an A and his need to have someone always around him "taking care of him"<P>Thanks, Hopelessmom

David,<P>You have posted replies to me before and I think you provide wonderful insight for me, so thank you. I think we are both in very similar situations, so please feel free if you want to bounce off someone to address posts to me...I'd love to return the insight.<P>I am going to write my H a letter tonight and forgive him. It is a very deliberate action, but I am doing it more for myself. I realize that I cannot be a "good" person while harboring this pain all the time. What is done is done and there is nothing I can do about it, and you are right, I have been rejected multiple times...no wonder I am so numb!!<P>I also had a very eye opening experience about how easy it is for people to slip when they are not getting their needs met and have validated the logic I have been using to try to understand my H's weakness that led him to the affair. I think that if I hold on to this understanding and compassion and try to replace my anger and hatred with it that I will heal better.<P>You wrote: "We're starting to make some progress. My W is working very hard on dealing with her issues, and is beginning the process of making ammends for her behavior."<P>What do you think motivated her to want to make ammends and what do you mean when you say she is dealing with her issues? I ask because even though my husband is saying he wants to work on things, I don't feel there is any conviction behind what he says. I still don't feel valued, I don't feel like he has aggressively made it clear that he wants me back in his life. He thinks that I am asking him to grovel and I guess in a way that I might be. He also stated that he wants to be able to tell our children that he tried. I told him that if there is no conviction behind his "trying" that he might as well not try at all. I still get the feeling that I am being set up. What would ammends look like if they were being offered?<P>****hopelessmom<P>You asked davidb about being an ACOA and I think I can offer some insight as I am one who has been going to individual counseling for a year. If your H is willing to explore this, then I would recommend counseling as it has opened my eyes. Here is a summary of what I have learned about myself:<P>1. I do not open myself up to others, allowing myself to be vulnerable and to be loved.<BR>2. My walls are up so high in an effort to protect myself that I don't realize the impact of my actions upon others.<BR>3. Because of the two above statements, if I am protecting myself, noone can see the real me and any efforts they make to love me are not always seen as I am always defensive.<BR>4. Because I do not always see these efforts in my marriage because I have raised my walls so high, often casual friends can get in closer initially than the one I am supposed to be closest to. This does allow for affair vulnerability. I can see how that attention bestowed upon me in that initial romance phase of knowing someone can easily be latched on to...only once the romance is over, the walls go up again for fear of being hurt by one that is so close to you. <P>It is a catch 22 and we ACOA need to be keenly aware of our interactions with people because often we project our past relationships onto the current one simply in an effort to prevent pain. Only, it does not work. We are so caught up with preventing pain that we end up causing it when we do not get our needs met due to those walls!! If your husband will read, there is a chapter in "Co-dependent No More" by Melody Beattie that lists a bazillion traits of things co-dependents do that destroy themselves. I think it is chapter 4. It was very eye opening for myself...painful, but definitely caused me to think about how I interact with my H.<P>Good Luck