I've read the most recent posts and what Sad Heart had to say. I'm truly sorry that you are in the process of giving up on your marriage rather than rebuilding it. I'm not sure I have anything helpful to say to you, but I will try. It may not all be easy to hear, but I promise you that I am saying these things out of compassion and honesty. It isn't my job to save your marriage...that is up to you and your husband. What I hope to do is offer you some valid reasons to rethink your plan to leave your marriage.<P>I'll answer the question you thought I might not be able to answer first. Where do I think my marriage would be if I didn't have God in my life. I don't think my marriage would be anywhere near what it is today without God in it and in my life. God is the reason we have what we have....our faith and trust in Him has brought us through. Do I think a marriage can be rebuilt without God? My intent here is not to hurt, but I have to be honest....I don't think anything is possible without God. Many people believe they are happy and have everything they could ever need, but if they don't have God they have nothing worthwhile. <P>You say that this board isn't realistic because most people here have it too easy. Whether you realize it or not, you have it much easier than many, if not most, of the people here. You have a husband who realizes the stupidity of his actions, realizes what he almost destroyed and is remorseful. This is a gift! There are hundreds of women reading here who would give their right arm to have what you have....and you want to throw it away because of this wall of unforgiveness and protection you have built around yourself. In reality that is what I feel sorry for you for more than anything....not the affair, but the wall that is causing you to live in this state of unforgiveness and grief.<P>In some ways I am a little offended that you think most of us here can't understand your pain...that we have it so much easier than you do. What I experienced in those early months was absolute hell and I don't ever want to go there again. I cried every day for months. My emotions were raw and a rollercoaster....from anger to anguish to passion in minutes. I was making myself crazy. I didn't eat for the first 2 days after the revelation of the affair and couldn't eat a full meal for weeks after that. I couldn't sleep through the night and woke up crying many mornings. I couldn't concentrate on work...mental images of my husband and the ow or the words he had written to her in emails dominated my thoughts. I was angry...extremely angry...and extremely afraid and distrustful. I badgered my husband with questions day and night.....I'm sure he began to dread riding the car with me because that was the time I had him captive and would always bring up the affair. I'm grateful that my children were teenagers....they were pretty much on their own for a while. I couldn't manage a job, housework, and laundry for a long time....they were real troopers. And yes they know about the affair and have forgiven their dad and have a wonderful relationship with him.<P>The woman my husband had an affair with was supposedly a friend of mine....someone we went to church with. There were people in the church who were very suspicious and even fairly certain of what was going on and none of them ever said a word to me. I was angry with them all and felt abandoned by the very people who were supposed to love and support me. In a way this was a favor because it allowed my husband and me to hear God very clearly...there weren't a lot of other voices to confuse us. The day I got an email from someone who I thought was a friend and supporter telling me the affair was my fault and other very hurtful things, I wanted to die. My husband refused to leave me alone for several weeks after that, even though I assured him I wasn't suicidal. There were many times when I thought healing was just too hard and that I couldn't do it any more. But divorce wasn't something I wanted either....the only option I had was to stay the course and work through it all.<P>You ask how you can believe your husband can really love you now if he said he loved you but still had an affair. I thought that too....and I realized that he did love me during the affair, but he loved himself more for a little while. You believe the sun will come up tomorrow don't you...you don't have any promise of that other than the fact that it has come up every other day of your life. Then apply that faith to your husband. Believe that he can love you and not hurt you again.<P>You have the choice to heal with your husband or without him. Divorcing him won't fix this. What is going on in your heart is deeper than that. There is a shell that you've built and a divorce won't break it. You will carry the baggage from this situation into any other relationship you have and there are no guarantees that you won't be betrayed again. Your chances at happiness are much greater with your husband than without him in my opinion.<P>Please understand....I truly am sorry that this has happened in your life. It is unfair and it is awful and it is every other negative adjective you can think of. Your husband was stupid and selfish and thoughtless. But if he is remorseful and if he is doing all the right things now, then he is worth keeping. We can choose to live in the past or we can choose to live in the present....we can choose to heal and be happy or to stay in the pain and not be happy. <P>God isn't a magician, waving some special magic wand and fixing some people and not others. God is a loving, caring, Father who wants His children to trust Him and follow Him. He will show you the path to healing if you ask Him to. He won't just drop a miracle in your lap while you sit and everything will be okay, though. You have to take what He offers and do some work. You have to realize that your husband did something terrible, but you also have to take a long look at yourself and see some things you may need to change as well. You aren't responsible for his choice to have an affair, but my guess is that you've done things in your marriage that you need forgiveness for as well. <P>How would you want to be treated if the tables were turned? And don't give me that "I would NEVER be unfaithful" line. The bottom line is that nobody on this board knows exactly what they would do under the wrong circumstances. I don't think I would ever be unfaithful, but since I haven't faced that opportunity I don't know for sure. Really stop and put yourself in his shoes....think about how you would want to be treated.<P>I don't believe you really want to stay in this state....even though I don't know you, I believe the fact that you have come here shows that you want healing. Yes, I know you are afraid...but that fear won't go away unless you face it and take steps to conquer it. Yes, I know you've been hurt and can't trust. Trust doesn't return all at once...it is rebuilt one step at a time and the first steps belong to your husband. Yes, I know he could be unfaithful again. But that risk is very small if you are both working together and are vigilant over your marriage. You have a history with this man....probably children too. You say you've overlooked things in him through the years....I'm sure he has returned the favor. <P>Some suggestions...I know I've gotten very long here..I have a tendency to do that when I get on this soapbox. I believe marriages are worth saving and restoring....I know it is worth the effort. Read Torn Asunder by Dave Carder...an awesome book on restoration. Turn to God and ask Him to help you....let Him lead you to happiness. Get Experiencing God Day by Day by Henry Blackaby....the best devotion book I've ever read...I actually went through it twice! <P>I will pray for you tonight......<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

Summertime, i am NOT a religous person either and NO I don't feel that a marriage or life will never be good because of it of my non-belief! I respect everyone's view point on religion and ask that they respect mine as well. You sound a lot like me when I first came here almost 3 years ago. Hubby and I are still together and doing quite well (at least it feels that way, I never use the 100% anymore). I really couldn't understand how everyone here was so easy to forgive and be what i thought was a doormat for a cheating spouse to continue lie and deceive. But I read, listened and even took some advice. I am a VERY STUBBORN woman and just didn't want to give up my pride to try to make things right when i felt like HE WAS THE ONE THAT SHOULD BE KISSING MY A$% trying to make things right. But even when i had that, things weren't getting better for ME emotionally. I was also VIOLENT with husband, whenever we would argue i would STRIKE PHYSICALLY. I didn't realize that it wasn't normal until to act in such a way until i started coming here. A woman hitting her husband/boyfriend was all that I saw in my circle of friends so it was my outlet. I now know differently. I never want to be one of those bitter older woman who have hate in there hearts for ALL MEN, I always thought that was a waste of time and of life. So i changed MYSELF. I started being nice, basically a Plan A, my reasoning. Hell, i've been doing the same things and I'm not feeling any better about us or myself. I looked at it as a test. A test to see if i could really put on the charm while still very angry and while my heart was still hurting. I do the self-pity/hate thing TOO WELL. And i said to myself, if I change and he follows then good, if I make changes and things stay the same then I will at least be able to say that I left knowing that I WAS THE BIGGER PERSON WHO TRIED AND GAVE MY ALL TO MAKE IT BETTER. I didn't try to save the old relationship, but i am making a BETTER ONE! And it has been better. My friends are even amazed at my niceness (when anyone would ask who is your most cold-hearted friend, MY NAME was always the answer)! I put my pride aside, realized that I did say through good times and bad and then I changed MYSELF, became the nice, fun-loving person that i used to be b4 all the BS came into my heart from his past mistakes. Was tired of being COLD HEART and it was making me AGE faster than ever too. So to though's that feel that I will never be happy because i don't believe what you believe in, fine, that is your opinion. I am happy with ME and WHO I HAVE BECOME THANKS TO THIS BOARD. And I am grateful to you for showing me that ANGER and VIOLENCE isn't always the way. Maybe just open up your heart 1 more time, what have u got to lose, NOTHING. If hubby follows, u could take your marriage to a place that you always wanted it to be. And if he doesn't well then you will know that you tried and I think that you owe it to yourself to see if you could be happy again. It does sound like you want to. Sorry so long

HG, thank you for taking the time for that lengthy answer. I agree with many things you say. <P>What I meant when I said others seem to have it easier is what goes on within themselves. As for not understanding my pain, I get the feeling on this board that once the WS wants to come home, the BS takes them back with open arms, and the pain lessens because their husbands want to stay with them. If I stay in this marriage than I am one of those statistics of women who live with abusive men. And I consider cheating to be abusive, albeit emotional not physical, it is abusive. I just don't understand how one can be so forgiving and go on. <P>Perhaps the shell around me is too strong. I also agree that divorce is not going to help me that much, except for the fact that I will be doing something for myself rather than sitting back and being done to (forgive my grammer), bu you know what I mean! <P>And I can tell you I would NEVER have an affair. I work very hard at NEVER intentionally hurting anyone. Of course I've hurt people, but never have I done someting that I KNEW could hurt. And I will NEVER believe adulterers don't know that adultery can hurt, maybe not to the extent it does, but anything we do in shame is because we know it is wrong. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. I'm not particularly bright and I know that.<P><BR>As I wrote, I believe the marriage is over and need to recover on my own. <P>Again, thank you for your generosity. S.<BR>

summertime<BR>I'm sorry you are in this place in your life. I will pray for you no matter what your decision is. It wasn't easy to stay in my marriage....it was a choice I made because I love my husband. I hope that some day you will be able to see beyond your pain and that you will find the healing you seek.<P>And to clarify for trying2_4give....I don't have religion, I have a relationship...there is a huge difference.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Summertime:<P><BR>And I can tell you I would NEVER have an affair. I work very hard at NEVER intentionally hurting anyone. Of course I've hurt people, but never have I done someting that I KNEW could hurt. And I will NEVER believe adulterers don't know that adultery can hurt, maybe not to the extent it does, but anything we do in shame is because we know it is wrong. <P>Hi Summertime, I know I've posted to you months ago, and I am sorry you are still in the same place. You say you work very hard at never intentionally hurting someone. Not intentionally trying to hurt someone implies that you are not aware that your actions might hurt that person, therefore you do not "know" that what you are choosing to do at the moment will cause pain in the future. An example might be that you gossip with a friend about another friend,you don't intend to hurt the person you're gossiping about but when that person "finds out" about the things you have said they are hurt none the less. Same thing with your H,and probably most of our WS's who are truly repentent.They never intended to hurt us,and never intended for us to find out,therefore how could there have been a conscious processing that their actions would end up causing us to hurt? No, they didn't "absolutely" know that their actions would cause us this incredible pain because they never intended for us to find out.I don't think anyone has an affair with the intention of confessing. Confession is something that results after the incredible guilt of the wrongness sets in. That alone tells you something of the persons true moral character.Your H says he was going to confess,unfortunately you found out before hand.<P>You said,<BR>"anything we do in shame is because we know it is wrong"<P>All human beings do things we are ashamed of,we all fail to do what is right 100% of the time.I only hope, for your sake, that you never make an unintentional terrible mistake against someone you love very dearly, and have that person who was offended by that mistake choose to define your entire being by that mistake.What a tragedy to be unable to see the humaness in another, and to be unable to see humaness with no compassion. Like HGB, I think there are some people out there who lack any integrity or morals and live completely selfish lives and cheat on their spouses. Then there are those that are merely human like all of us and due to some struggle within themself, make some very wrong choices never intending to hurt anyone.<P>I honestly intend no disrespect here, but I believe your hardened heart has little to do with you being logical and sensible, but more to do with an unconscious desire to punish your H and make sure he feels the same hurt that he caused you.Unforgiveness and throwing away many years of an otherwise good marriage is sure to do that.If that is what you end up doing in the long run(throwing away your long term marriage),can you then hang onto the image of yourself NEVER intentionally hurting someone? You know, as well as anyone else on this forum, that to throw away a marriage when someone is repentent and doing everything they can possibly do to make amends, would be inflicting incredible pain. I'd only ask,what do you gain by making sure that he hurts? <P>

Hello <B>HGBrawner, trying2_4give, Summertime and Mthrrhbard</B><P>Sorry for jumping in here, but I have just replied on the thread by <B>JCook</B> and it was directed mostly at <B>Summertime</B><P>Forgive me again and I am going to copy and paste it here. I should have thought as clearly as <B>GHBrawner</B> did and started a thread directed to you. <P>So, here goes...<P><B>jcook</B><P>We have been married for 17 years and almost 4 months. We have been together going on 19 years. Our marriage has survived 2 years and a tad over one month since discovery. We have been in true recovery for 16 months. I can't tell you how long we were married when the affair started, because he doesn't really know any dates. So I would only know the answers to that if I ever got the opportunity to talk to her directly and the courage to ask. The affair last between two and five years. Secret friendship to start with and eventually became physical, then a total love affair. That time was probably between a year and two years.<P>I could have written much that <B>HGBrawner</B> said in her second to last post here. Except our marriage had gotten very bad. We both treated each other horribly and let life get in our way. There are many extenuating circumstances in our lives. I won't go into them here. I also was not sure if I loved my husband anymore and that was depressing me further. Midlife crisis had something to do with all of this as well as many other things. He turned to other woman; I turned farther into my own depression.<P>We have a better marriage now, and it isn't because of the affair either. Like <B>Nerlycrzy</B> said it was in spite of the affair. The affair and the fact that he was totally in love with her and did not believe he loved me any more at all was a huge wake up call for me. Upon discovery I immediately knew I did indeed love him.<P>We also have recovered because of what <B>HGBrawner</B> said, our commitment to each other and God. Our children, our history and tons of very hard work and pain. The benefits of going through all this though out way all of the pain. They honestly do. We would not have made it if it were not for God's blessings and grace.<P>The first eight months after discovery were incased with him still being in the fog. Those months though allowed us the time to build a bit and prepare for recovery.<P>We are in love now and it gets stronger everyday...easier and more relaxed. It is exciting and wonderful. Not without times of pain and triggers, but it is a remarkable metamorphous. We enjoy each other’s company and look at life very differently. He and I both want this marriage to work and look forward to whatever years the Lord blesses us with here on this earth together. There is "No out Clause" for us, just as God intended there not to be. We promised each other that 17 plus years ago, we promised God that and all the wonderful family and friends that witnessed our marriage and celebrated it with us. We are not going to break that promise again.<P>I understand much of what you are saying <B>Summertime</B>. I really didn't know my husband any longer, the one that was having the affair. Now I get to look forward to learning and knowing the man he is now and is becoming. It is a wonderful blessed experience. I too would have nearly bet my life on my husband never having an affair. I thought I knew him that well. I was totally blindsided by the discovery of it, even though I had suspected and questioned him about the possibility of his having one. Naturally he denied it. The man I knew and married wouldn't have had one. The man he had become because of life's trial and tribulations did. That doesn't negate the man he was, or is now. It only proves he is human and vulnerable to mistakes and bad judgments. It also doesn't negate who he was while he was having the affair. That man is a man he is ashamed of and says he will take the guilt from it all to his grave. He is no longer that man though, he has grown from his journey, just as I have grown and learned from mine.<P>Now, <B>Summertime</B> you ask <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Someone posted about their child asking how a dad could murder a mom and kids. I know this sounds melodramatic but I can't say my husband wouldn't do that either. He made me feel like I was his life so if he could destroy me by having an affair, who knows what else he could do? I never see this subject addressed. I wonder why? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can say that without a doubt my husband would not do that because even the horrible, hurtful and cruel man he had become during his affair (not to mention incredibly selfish, but none the less a lost man) would not have been capable of doing this. He isn't or wasn't capable of murdering anyone. Murder goes beyond the ability to have an affair or hurt someone emotionally. It is completely a different animal. I know that the pain from adultery feels so close to death and destruction as we could imagine murder would feel. I know I felt like I was dying or wished that death would come and allow me to escape from it. The point I am trying to make is, even though I believe part of my husband did have an affair to hurt me, mostly he had an affair because he went with the emotions that sprung forth from someone making him feel wonderful again. It was about him and how he was feeling and the "fix" that was presented to him at the time. It had very little to do with hurting me. <P>You also post <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>hurts2much, thank you so much for sharing with me. I am so desperate to find a forum that is more in touch with reality than this forum seems. The people here who are recovering seem to do so very easily. And there are so many aspects of an affair that are not easy for me to digest.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First of all big <B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Summertime}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>This forum really is based in so much reality that it is scary. I have found very few situations on this forum where anyone is recovering very easily. Those are the rare and few exceptions. I also second your statement that there are many aspects of an affair you don't easily digest. I am not very sure that some of them I will ever digest. Nope, cause those aspects just plain stink!<P>My husband had gotten to the point of <B>Nellie's</B> husband and not cared. Still he never planned to be caught and went to great extremes not to be caught. He led a double life and that was killing his spirit and soul. Upon my anonymous phone call alerting me to the affair, he said his first reaction was relief! Relief that he no longer had to be that deceitful ugly man he had become. He felt like a huge weight had been lifted from his shoulders. He, the real and true basis of what he is, was not that man, and although he may never admit it, was not the man he was when he was with her. That was all based on fantasy, no real life problems or daily living. They never in all that time had an argument, saw the distasteful things spouses do when they live together and truly get to know one another nor were they able to ever move around freely with out hiding to some degree or another. That man wasn't him, but instead was someone he was creating much like an actor creates a character in a play or movie. <P><B>Summertime</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also what does it say about our husbands that they couldn't come to us if they were unhappy with themselves, which I think is the same case with my husband. I asked before but never got a response, why should we want to stay with weak men?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Your husband isn't a weak man; he was only a weak man when he was with her. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We've been together since we are 15 and 16 so the fact that I NEVER knew him has been devastating. Not only did he do what he did, but I didn't know the man I counted on. Shame on me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not shame on you. You did know the man he was before he had the affair and you have the opprotuntity to get to know the man he will become after the affair. The choice however is ulitimately yours. The man that was having the affair and the man that he was while he was with her, well that is the man you didn't know.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And the last question, which I understand you may not be able to answer is "What if God wasn't in your life?" Where would your marriage be now? Thanks, I hope I'm not prying too much. S.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I know I am answering questions, in fact most of them that are not directed at me but <B>HGBrawner</B> and I am sure her responses will be much better than mine, but...<P>If God were not in my life and in my husband's life, we would not have made it. The commitment and vows meant very much to both of us. Our daughter in common did too. God blessing us with the chance at recovery and his gracious gifts during this struggle is what is getting us through. He truly is an awesome God! <P>The choice is yours <B>Summertime</B> and only yours. I know for a fact this is doable. Back when this all became painfully apparent to me, I would have never bet that we would be here, but we are. I know I for one am not going to throw away the happiness God has provided for me, or the love my husband has for me. I love this man with all of my heart and my soul is promised to God.<P>I have learned one thing from all of this, and that's that no human, man or woman, should ever have the kind of trust we had for our spouses. Simply because they are human and can fall into temptation, doing things that can hurt us. The only being that we can trust to continually love us regardless of who we are, or what we are doing is God! At least for me I think that was my hugest error...allowing my husband to become what only God should have been.<P><B>Now this has turned into one of my painfully long posts. I never intended to say more than my stats here until I read the whole thread. Then I just couldn't keep my fingers from typing. Please forgive me all?</B><P>I would like to thank <B>jcook</B> for starting this thread, as it has some great thoughts, ideas and advise. Everyone here has said some very profound statements and shared their deepest thoughts with us all. To all of you I thank you.<P>Just before I end this I have to say...<P><B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Nellie}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>I am so sorry for your immense pain. Please know my thoughts and prayers are with you. I pray that you will be healed from your pain and that you will find true happiness and light in your life.<P>Okay now I am going to say goodnight. <P>Mega hugs to all of you. Wishing you all the best weekend you can have. <BR> <BR>............................................................<P><B>HGBrawner, trying2_4give and mthrrhbard</B><P>You all have given such wonderful advise and shared such wise words to <B>Summertime</B>! I have a couple of responses to this thread and will do it in another post. I have already experienced trying to publish too long of a post and had to do it in parts. I think I will take the easier path this time around. <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 23, 2001).]

<B>Summertime</B><P>First I have to say that all of the posting here and on the other thread are because people genuinely want you to feel better and be whole again. It is out of a real love for you even though we actually don't know you. Couple that with all of us having a shared experience with this dreadful disease.<P>I have to say again, like an echo that I could have written much of <B>HGBrawner's</B> post. I am not as offended by your thinking that others here recovery so easily as I remember thinking when I was only here for a short time that people seemed to take it so well. As I read more and finally actually delved into this site I saw many in pain. My initial reaction of thinking it was so unreal, for me at least was because being so wrapped up in my own pain and anguish, that it seemed unreal to me that others could come off so calmly and be doing so well. Let me tell you though, it was the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my life. I have been around the block more times than I would care to admit. I have weathered more pain in my life than some other people have and not as much as some others. This was devastating and I didn't think I would survive it or be able to go on another moment, let alone another day. If I went into all the details of the apparently insane things I did upon my reaction to all of this, well...I think some of the wonderful people I have come to know here, would be calling for the people in the white coats to take me away. <P>Please listen to <B>HGBrawner</B> as she is wise beyond her years and blessed by God with an incredible ability to express herself so eloquently with typed words. She and her husband have a healing ministry aimed at this very thing, called adultery. She only posts here to live up to the challenges God has presented before her, that ministry and to share with you what she has learned. She is giving back just as she received. <P><B>trying2_4give</B> has also given you some mighty powerful words from her heart and mind. She too doesn't have to take the time to post to you...she does it out of human kindness, love and the desire to help others. She too is giving back things that have been given or earned (that's for you trying2_4give .) She has worked very hard to get to the point she is at. Making complete changes, turning her life upside down to preserve a marriage made on the promises she obviously feels were worth working hard for.<P><B>mthrrhbard's</B> post is but another wealth of wisdom and she is also graciously trying to help you. She too is giving back what she has been given. Her words are logical, concise and worth reading over and over again.<P>See <B>Summertime</B> we are all here posting because we care, we have been in the exact spot you are in right now. We have been stuck just like you. I am sure each and every one of us considered divorce or some unmentionable way out of all this pain. I know I did. There is an huge array of reasons to recover, just as there are numerous aspects of an affair you can't digest. They are equal. Not to mention the vast amount of reasons why our spouses had an affair. Nothing is ever as simple as black and white. Nothing!<P>The other reason we are posting here to you is that this can work out. This site is so real, that it is hard for others and myself to read and stay here at times. Everyone one of us that post here or lurk, whether we are BS's or WS's have endured an enormous amount of pain, shame and guilt in mistakes we have made that led up to our spouses having an affair or having an affair on our spouses.<P>Not many people here are going to tell you to go with your gut feelings right now, your totally reactionary feelings I might add and go for a divorce. The reason for that is as basic as the name of the site...<B>MARRIAGE BUILDERS!</B> That is why this site was created and why Harley wrote the book and his children have continued his work and counsel couples and people who have been hit by this.<P>That is why you are here too, because you want to heal your marriage and yourself. You are just afraid to take that leap because frankly it is darn scary. I was petrified. It truly would have been much easier to walk away. <P>In making the effort to repair our marriages we become so vulnerable. We face the very real possibility that we may fail. We also have to look deep within ourselves and grow, to change! Now we as humans don't like change. I know also that people don't grow or change usually unless there is something uncomfortable, and usually painful going on in their lives. Why else would they? Who in their right minds would change something if all in their lives were going along well? Only when something is broken or not working quite right will we address the issues and do the tough thing and grow. For people who have just been sucker punched in the diaphragm and had the wind knock out of them, well our natural reaction is to double up, and stay that way. Then our abdomen is not exposed to further assault. The problem with staying in that position is you don't get to do much living with any quality.<P>Affairs are emotional abuse, but they are not as intentional as spurting out words in a heated moment or of purposely doing things to hurt another. They are not well thought out things at all. They actually do usually evolve and move slowly without the WS thinking about what they are doing as far as the consequences go. I don't believe that any spouse has an affair and knows how much pain it is going to cause. They know if the spouse finds out it will hurt, but they have no idea of the ramifications or the degree of pain. Not to mention the amount of people it hurts. If they did, they'd never do it. They couldn't possibly know unless they have been a victum to an unfaithful spouse. They get wrapped up in the moment, the feelings and the quick fix to what they are lacking inside. Again like <B>HGBrawner</B> said, it is a thoughtless act, which is incredibly selfish.<P>An affair by nature is secret and very deceitful. WS do not go to that degree to hurt us. They go to that degree to avoid hurting us and to satisfy their fix. Now, I am not talking about a Cake Man or a philanderer. That is another animal again. I am talking about a spouse whom upon discovery wants to at the very least stick around and make a stab at their marriage.<P>You are very fortunate indeed that your spouse is remorseful. I could fill up pages and pages here of people who aren't that fortunate. I could also write until the dawns light at how horribly my husband was when this first came to my attention. He blamed me for his choice...does still to a certain extent. Now that is something for him to work out and part of his journey. I can't change that (although I would love to) I can only accept that.<P>As far as knowing you will never have an affair, I too felt like you. I haven't had one yet, and was in a pretty rotten marriage and had plenty of opportunity to have one. I chose not to go there. Now though, I have to honestly admit I have thought about it, not for revenge (I hope) but because I would love to feel that amazing burst of wonderful one gets from a new love, falling in love! I am even a tad bit jealous that my husband has had that, while I am still trying to cling to the memory of the last time I fell in love; that being 19 years ago with him. Now, I know I have to be doubly cautious of falling into the trap of getting into an affair.<P>I am vulnerable, I am wounded, and a new love would sure as heck give me a quick fix and something new and exciting to look forward to. Because my husband had an affair, I believe I am more vulnerable. To combat that, I share my feelings with my husband, and when I come across a man I even remotely think about it that way, I share it with him. If I keep it in the light of day then I believe it won't materialize. So far any of those attractions have gone away rather quickly just like the fog of morning when the sun hits it. Communication and commitment is the key. Making the choice to take the higher ground, to make the right and correct choice. I know for me that choice is the only morally, legal and the Godly thing to do. So I won't say I will could never have an affair, because I know if I am not cautious I could fall prey to the very same kind of thing that nearly destroyed me, our marriage and my family. I will say by the grace of God and by following his laws and rules I will never have an affair.<P>(Shoot this is going to take another post as well, forgive me to those of you I have bored to tears.)<p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 24, 2001).]

the continuation of the previous post...<P>Just like you <B>Summertime</B> I work very hard at never hurting anyone intentionally. Affairs are not intentional, they happen when someone chooses to ignore their inner voice that says don't do that because they want and crave that quick fix. They make that choice because they don't usually know how to achieve the long lasting fix.<P><B>mthrrhbard</B> (your user name is so hard for me to get correct! ) said...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All human beings do things we are ashamed of,we all fail to do what is right 100% of the time.I only hope, for your sake, that you never make an unintentional terrible mistake against someone you love very dearly, and have that person who was offended by that mistake choose to define your entire being by that mistake.What a tragedy to be unable to see the humaness in another, and to be unable to see humaness with no compassion. Like HGB, I think there are some people out there who lack any integrity or morals and live completely selfish lives and cheat on their spouses. Then there are those that are merely human like all of us and due to some struggle within themself, make some very wrong choices never intending to hurt anyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Read that again and again. It is so profoundly on target for your current situation and feelings. Full of wisdom and she didn't mean to offend you by it, but help you. All of us hurt people whether it is intentional or not. The reason why we love people or like them in this world is that we love them in spite of their flaws. If we didn't do that we would not love or like anyone, because everyone has flaws, makes mistakes and hurts others. It is what the word "human being" means. We fall short, but we can live and learn. In that process we can become fulfilled and happy. It is really up to only us, ourselves.<P>Finally I am ready to put my weary fingers, mind and body to rest. I have one more thing to say and it is to...<P><B>trying2_4give</B><P><B>HGBrawner</B> is dead on when she says, and I will quote...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And to clarify for trying2_4give.... I don't have religion, I have a relationship...there is a huge difference.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Being a Christian means many things to each and every one of us. I realize fully that to many on this board we come off like Bible Bangers. I know for me, a huge part of why I mention God so much is because I wouldn't be here, possess this much love; or be in the recovered marriage I now have, if it weren't for Him. I have to give God the glory. There is a part of me that also is a bit fearful that if I don't do that it may all blow up in my face again. The other reason I and I feel the rest of us share it here is that because of God being in our lives and us having a personal relationship with Jesus we have been so very blessed. We care about you all here and we only want to share with you the most marvelous gift we have here on this earth.<P>So, <B>tryin2_4give</B> I am so glad that you and your marriage are doing so well in spite of you not being very religious. I truly am happy for you. Will you also please continue with that user name of yours and forgive me for being so terribly Christian. I can't help put pray that the most gracious Heavenly Father capture you heart and give you a hunger and thirst for Him that only he can quench. I just want you to have the very same gift that I have. Which translates into much love for you. I sure hope you understand?<P><BR><B>Summertime</B> that goes for you too! <P>Now I am going to take a cue from <B>HGBrawner</B> and get off my soap box! <P>Much love to all and to all a goodnight.<P>Big hugs,<P><BR>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B>

You are all so kind and generous. But I just don't belong on this board. I realize I don't want to live with the man who destroyed so much. <P>I wish I knew how to paste and cut. I wrote under the jcook posting where I am heading. <P>Thank you again and good luck to all of you. I hope there will be joy in your lives with the decisions you have made. S.

<B>Summertime</B><P>I am going there to read now. I am sorry you don't feel that you belong on this board. There is the plan A & B forum for people and the Divorcing/Divorced forum here. Possibly people over there could be of more assitance to you. The emotional needs forum is another.<P>Since you have a user name and password, maybe you could occassionally come back here and just post a word or so to let us know you are okay? We really do care and it would be helpful to us to know that you are alive and trying to heal.<P>I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 24, 2001).]

Hello Summertime,<P> I am the one that usually agrees with you, but my H was going to leave me for the OW. She turned him down!!! I feel like leftovers. I know and we all do that it is a real marriage destroyer, especialy when done intentenionaly like my H. He thought she was going to run off into the sunset with him. The very next day after he told me IT IS TO LATE. He was back!!!! That was May5th 2000. Of course they spent the summer seceretly comunicating and seeing each other, and she lives at least 800 miles from here!! He only gave up on her lasr OCT because I again caught them and called her up. It was a business relationship to boot so he has so many excuses for his behaviour. I would much rather be in your shoes. Your H seems much more remorseful than mine. <P> i know you did not want to have your life destroyed. None of us did. It is not fair. I do believe in God, or I would be dead right now. I did not eat much for weeks, and did not sleep for 5 days straight, cried all the time, and it did not even bother my H. He just looked at me and turned away. He did not even care if I died at the time. He asked me to move away and find someone else!!!! And this was a total shock to me. I never ever expected him to do that, but he did. Hard to digest someone you have been married to for 19 years to not even care if you died.<P>------------------<BR>Deb

<B>bnbsdbG</B><P>I am sorry that you are feeling this way right now. My husband was planning on leaving me too for OW. For most of their affair he told her that he wouldn't leave until he raised our daughter, which was his job. He was however coming to the end of his rope with our marriage and dangerously close to leaving. They discussed marriage and what it would be like for them and were making plans as much as the situation allowed. So really honey I do understand.<P>No, she didn't tell him no or blow him off. It had never gotten to that point. Way too long of a post could come from my hyper fingers on this. I haven't much time now as I have to get ready to go out with my husband and daughter tonight.<P>Their affair was at the height of wonderful when I got the phone call alerting me and that put a quick stop to the physical intimacy and contact outside of their work place. I thank God and believe that person who called me although possibly trying to cause trouble and turmoil, was used by God as a tool to stop it all before it got to the point of no return. Maybe you could view your husband's OW in much the same manner, God using her words to put a stop to it all and give the two of you a chance to heal?<P>My husband only stayed here because of our daughter. Truly. I didn't feel like second hand goods, I felt like the booby prize. I verbalized this to him many times since D-day. It is truly how I felt. He never once stayed here because of his love for me. If you ask him ever now why he stayed, his love for me will not come out of his mouth. <P>My husband didn't care whether I lived or died either with the exception of being a fellow human being and the mother of his child. He wavered between leaving anyway for about four months. He told me in no uncertain terms that if his love for me did not return he would not live a life of misery no matter what God's rules said. He would just take the penalty for trying to have a happy life. This is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life. I can either let it beat me and destroy my marriage or accept it and shove it as far from my conscious as possible. That way it won't haunt me daily.<P>He has never to this day cried a tear for me. He has cried for how he has felt, for his loss of OW and for how he hurt her and all of us. The tears only sprung usually when he thought about her and how she was hurting. (Okay, now I am in tears and this is just way too hard for me to continue to talk about at the moment. Over two years post D-day and this is still so real and painful. I am sorry...possibly another day?)<P>My point to going there was to show you that I do indeed know how you feel. Naturally not exactly because we are all unique and individual. So are our situations and our personal reactions to them. Still I feel I know pretty well how you feel.<P>The other point of it was to show that recovery is possible...very hard but possible.<P>When I said that the betrayed spouse didn't have an affair or get into an affair to hurt us, I meant that it was not the motivation. Their spouses and what that spouse would or did feel had very little to do with it. Actually we were dismissed from their minds. I have said that in a small way I believe it was a part of my husband's motivation, although a very small part. It was the attitude F--- her, I am going to make myself feel good at whatever the cost to her.<P>Okay, I have to go and get ready. I also have to compose myself. This was really hard to type. I try not to go to the bad parts that still hurt to the core for me too much. For one it's self preservation and two I believe it does little to encourage or help the newer people in all of this and those starting recovery.<P><B>bnbsdbG</B><P>I hope this has helped you some, clarified to you in some way how it was, and that you can indeed overcome this and have a wonderful, although no perfect marriage. Nothing after all is perfect, only Christ.<P>Love you lady. I'll see you soon. <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 24, 2001).]

Samantha,<P> Thank you for that. I was posting for Summertime. I was trying to make her feel more fortunate, not make you feel badly. Not that anyone can feel fortunate in any of this. It does hurt and they are so cruel. Our children are grown, our "baby" is 19, even though she is at home. I am thankful for many many things. I do feel blessed, when I remember to. I at one time felt blessed to have my H. For 19 years I felt blessed to have him. Now what?? Now you need a hug<P> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SAMANTHA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P> Lots of Prayers and Hugs Samantha and everyone!!<P>------------------<BR>Deb

<B>bnbsdbG</B><P>While I was editing my post you were posting. Perhaps you could go back and read my last post again? I think perhaps you can see where my suggestion might help you in your journey and feelings in this.<P>As far as Summertime being fortunate, well she is. She doesn't feel that way right now, and we all know why. This whole blasted thing can knock us down so low we can't see any light.<P>Thanks for the hugs...because I need them.<P>Again, much love; <P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't lose! What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 24, 2001).]

Samantha,<P> Thank you again. My H is an a#%&*&^. His 1st wife got the same treatment. He left her for OW. They were together for <BR>app:13 years about 11 married. They had 2 children. I was treated the same way as her when he was leaving me for OW. He knew exactly what he was doing. It was very intentional once he discovered he was soooo happy with his new found love. The man is 53 years old!!!!! What did he learn the first time he destroyed his first marriage for OW. Not much apparantly. Do I want to be a sitting duck at the age of almost 49??? Sometimes I think I would be better off alone. <P> Prayers and Hugs.....Blessed Samantha<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Samantha, how could I be upset at you for speaking about what you love in your heart and soul. As I said I respect everyone's right to believe and love what/who they chose, but I also expect the same respect for my beliefs and have no words for those who JUDGE or BELITTLE me because I don't believe in everything that they chose to. Thank you for your kind words.