I assume that you were looking for anonymity, Twyla. I know that you wouldn't have the guff to come say this to my face, but next time, don't practically advertise that it's <B>YOU</B> by telling me which dept. you work in here. Plus, you're the only person here who hasn't figured out that my husband goes by "Thomas" - <B>NEVER</B> Tom.<P>It's pretty pathetic that you have so little of a life that you have to obsess yourself with mine. Read a book. Join a club. But stay out of my business. And do <B>NOT</B> say another bad word about my kid. If you have a problem with me, you talk to me - you don't take this gutless approach.<P>BTW, I just printed off your eloquent post to me along with your profile and put it on Cathy's desk. It's just too bad that you forgot that this "$8/hr receptionist" typed up the Employee Handbook. <P>And NB - no, she's not married, she's just trying to cause trouble. THAT was why I changed my Username for a while, before I stopped caring.

Well, I just sent this to our moderators... and I'm not happy about it. I was having a very lively debate about something near and dear to MY heart, and now it has been tarnished with this garbage.<P>I suppose this thread will now be locked, or deleted... and I think it had some merit on its own... before this.<P>CB, I'm sorry you had to see this. I meant it when I said I wish you didn't have to... I would die inside, no matter who it came from... but as you know, that's just me.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

flygirl:<P>from your post, it seems that you know CB, her H and her son. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that perhaps you should shut your mouth if you have nothing nice to say. This board is for people who are looking for comfort, not for cruel and hateful words like the ones you aimed at CB.<P>If the only reason why you joined here was to hurt her, then I think you might want to re-consider coming by because I don't think you'll find many people who will want you here.<P>

Flygirl,<P>How dare you come on this board & attack someone like you did. We may not all agree on things but we all care about one another & know the pain that has brought each & every one of us here. <P>

CB -- I'm so sorry this happened...What is this world coming to? I have a lot of respect for your "restrained" reply. It demonstrated the exact opposite of how you were portrayed above...You had every excuse to come "unglued". I am soooooo impressed!!!! Yu stronga woman!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FlyGirl:<BR>[B]But then everybody knows how fake southern women are.B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>CB,<P>We all know that southern woman are Steel Magnolias, & us transplants are among the hardiest around. :<P>Liked the email on the boss's desk. : :<BR>

Everyone,<P>I think we can all agree that CB handled herself beautifully. <P>I suppose this thread can now be layed to rest... although I am sad... as I said, this subject is near and dear to my heart. I was just getting into the meat of it.<P>But, I think we'll find other venues to discuss our thoughts After all, that's what this place is about, eh?<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

I rarely post directly toward an individual on a controversial post, however, I do believe it is important that I do so in this case.<P>Flygirl, this is a place for people to come to work on marriages. If you have a marriage issue of your own, we will be glad to hear your story and offer our assistance. However, we do NOT tolerate posts which are direct personal attacks against members. I will not lock this thread, as it is a shame to stop what is a very productive, if controversial topic. But if there is another post of the sort you made on this thread, I will request the Forum Administrator step in and take care of the situation. <P>Thank you in advance for abiding by the rules and etiquette of these forums in the future.<P>------------------<BR><B>Tempest</B>, Moderator<BR>Marriage Builders Infidelity Forums:<BR><I>General Questions II, Just Found Out...,<BR>Plan A/Plan B, In Recovery</I> <BR>and <I>Read-Only Posts</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR>[BI met a really nice (NOT, but didn't know it then) couple next door. Long story short, I latched on to her for my emotional needs, and her H somewhat too. Turns out he was beating her, and I took her to the hospital. As often happens, she went back to him and then they both hated me. <P>One night as I was taking out the trash I overheard the neighbors H call me "a fat pig without a brain in my head"... she was silent... and then she said, "I know"...and it LITERALLY brought me to the ground in tears. I'd lost everything, and was a fat loser. It took me months, no YEARS to get beyond that pain. <P>It happened 7 yrs. ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.<P>[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Maybe I don't know the whole story, and maybe I'm off base saying this but...<P>You lived through years of pain over THIS?! Because a loser who beat his wife called you a "fat pig" and his loser wife agreed (probably out of fear)? <P>Why should you care what they think of you? I mean, consider the source! <BR>

NB,<P>I didn't mean for my post to be taken the wrong way-I have spoken to OW but I have never been cruel or mean or called her names to her face. I was just trying to explain why BS's may attack OP's with insults-Yes, I know where I was lacking in my marriage and why my H turned to OW. I know if I attacked OW in hurtful ways it would just draw the two of them closer together. I choose to sit back and work on myself. In some cases OP's are better than the BS as far as the way they treat each other. I.E...OW's H was cruel to her and I'm sure my H treats her as well or even better than he treated me. He was a good husband. (notice the was) No matter if Op's are better or not it does not justify an affair. Personal attacks on the boards against OP's help BS's deal with anger-this is good as long as it does not carry on for too long. Name calling always hurts. Everyone is human and everyone has feelings. BS's, WS's and OP's......We will all have to answer to this someday....<P>Fly Girl-Fly away....

<P>Someone here already made a great point. If you completely degrade and demean the OP to extreme levels, what does that say about your WS's tastes? How does that reflect on their original choice of the BS as a marriage partner? Sorry, you can't go on and on about how fat, ugly, stupid, mean, insensitive and so on, the OP is and reflecting on your WS's choice of that person without creating some question as to whether the BS does indeed fit some of those same characteristics. >>>><P>I totally disagree with this statement. I myself have made some really poor choices in my past life when choosing boyfriends. None of the people I'm thinking about were anything alike and they are all completely different from my H. To tme the only thing that says about a person is that you made some stupid choices in life, I'll admit I have. We all make mistakes. The important thing is that we learn from them. Now it's different if someone keep making the same choice over and over again, such as the person who is always involved with a different alcoholic. Besides ine my H's case my issues arent' about the OW's looks. They are about the fact that she is a horrible person. Of course when she met my H she was all sweetness and light. He wouldnt' have had an affair with her if she'd said "I may act sweet and like I worship you. But as soon as thinkgs don't go my way I am going to turn into a psychopathic b---h, I will try to make your life a living hell and if you choose your W over me I will do anything in my power to torture her." People like that tend to keep that part of their personality hidden, otherwise not too many people would date them.

Oh <B>cjack</B>,<P>You did get the whole story... you didn't consider the details surrounding this (the infidelity, the loss of a baby, my emotional state)....<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why should you care what they think of you? I mean, consider the source! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gee, it all sounds so simple. Just consider the source, right? That might be what *you* would do, but during this horrible time, it isn't what I did. <P>And here, cjack, is where the rubber meets the road regarding this entire subject. I was offended by the original remarks that prompted this thread...others were not. Therein lies the *problem*<P><B>Trs</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Personal attacks on the boards against OP's help BS's deal with anger-this is good as long as it does not carry on for too long. Name calling always hurts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Again, if the OP were of a differing race or gay -- and I don't want to hear with "unchosen" differences vs. "chosen" (like fat, in some people's minds) -- you would not attack them, call them names, ect. People would be up in arms!! <P><B>fairydust</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Besides ine my H's case my issues arent' about the OW's looks. They are about the fact that she is a horrible person.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Once again...not to "stick up" for OP but the fact that your OP is a b*tch and/or a psychopath does not mean you get to make fun of her body size, race, religion, or any other "difference".<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

[QUOTE]Originally posted by new_beginning:<P> Once again...not to "stick up" for OP but the fact that your OP is a b*tch and/or a psychopath does not mean you get to make fun of her body size, race, religion, or any other "difference".>>>><P>I'm not trying to start a fight but who made these rules? I haven't attacked our OW's looks but I have called her white trash and I stand by it. Why do I owe her anything? The way I look at it I get to say whatever I want about her. She certainly did about me. After the A was over she set out to try and destroy me and my marriage. She told me she hoped every day that I would miscarry my baby. I just can't see how, if I want to insult her in ANY way, how I "don't have that right." No one honored my rights. I owe her no kindnesses of any sort. I understand your sensitivity about the weight issue, but no one was attacking you. It was directed at their particular OP. My whole take on this issue is that I would just hate to see people have to start censoring ther feelings and thoughts. Most of us have been there and needed to vent. I know the last thing on my mind when I was still actively dealing with the OW was worrying about being PC when discussing her.<P>I guess as far as I am concerned the gloves are off when it comes to the person who had an affair with your spouse. She felt she owed me nothing and I feel the same towards her. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff I would attack her for that I would NEVER attack anyone else for in a million years. It's just basic human nature. We can't all always take the high road, as much as we would like to. Sometimes throwing around an insult or 2 just makes the BS feel better. No, it may not be logical or "right" but it just does.<p>[This message has been edited by fairydust (edited March 29, 2001).]

<B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fairydust:<P>I have called her white trash ...I understand your sensitivity about the weight issue, but no one was attacking you. It was directed at their particular OP. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you said this particular person was black ghetto, would that offend someone, even if you directed it to HER ALONE? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I guess as far as I am concerned the gloves are off when it comes to the person who had an affair with your spouse. She felt she owed me nothing and I feel the same towards her. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff I would attack her for that I would NEVER attack anyone else for in a million years. It's just basic human nature. We can't all always take the high road, as much as we would like to. Sometimes throwing around an insult or 2 just makes the BS feel better. No, it may not be logical or "right" but it just does.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, if it makes you feel better. Honest to God... but don't be surprised when someone's hurt by it!<P><BR>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

For once in my life, I'm at a loss for words (Who woulda thunk it? )<P>"Flygirl" is a co-worker of mine here. I don't know why she has such a problem with me. This is the first real showing of it that I've seen. I don't think I'm a primadonna - yes, I am guilty of liking to be the center of attention (duh, I'm a professional wrestler. Hel-LO!) - I'm <I>NOT</I> a flirt - And was I <I>supposed</I> to be insulted by the Pamela Anderson likeness? <P>I'll go off on somebody who has caused me and my family pain in a heartbeat. But just because a few jealous, insecure people feel that they need to put me, my H, and my son down to lift <I>themselves</I> up - I could do no more to make her look bad than what she's done to herself. She had left work by the time I caught that post, but her boss and my boss have both been made aware, so we'll see what happens when I get to work this morning. I'm not worried about it, though - she's nothing to me or my family. If I got upset every time somebody had a problem with me, hell, I'd probably be in a clinic by now. <P>Let's drop that aspect of it now - that's not what this post is about, and we were having a pretty healthy discussion before all this! <P>Peppermint - I think that you and I are kinda like Bush and Gore as far as our views are concerned, and that's fine. We can certainly co-exist on this board just fine. I appreciate the help that you did give me before, and as a matter of fact, one thing that has made a tremendous difference as far as communication between my H and I was "setting the boundaries" in advance, like what you said you did with FS (eg - if you do "A, B, and C", my reaction will be _____________). Having it spelled out like that has eliminated a lot of gray areas for us, and I do appreciate that.<P>As far as the weight issues is concerned, my point of view has been thoroughly covered between myself and Fairydust. I know that I'm not going to change anybody's mind, but I at least hope that there is a small empathy for where I was coming from. I also hope that everyone understands that it was not my intention to create such a trigger for everyone.<BR> I'll try to do a couple Tae-Bo sessions before I "vent" again about the OW. But the thing is...I'm over it now. I seethed over it for like, 3 days, and now it's out of my system. Not one word was said to my H about it, and there was no fighting. <P>It's odd - I looked through all of my past posts (jeez, less than a year and I'm pushing 500 posts. And I say my H has an addictive personality!), and I have had 4 where I have gone off on the OW like this. All have been either after D-Day or immediately following a phone call from her to my house. I know now how to avoid her altogether, so I plan on doing just that. Sat. was the first time that H had seen her since Aug. So it's over, it's done, the lady has sung on that.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So it's over, it's done, the lady has sung on that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh honey, you didn't think I'd let this go, did you?? <P>The saying goes, as if you didn't know, ... <P>THE <B>FAT</B> LADY HAS SUNG.<P>Bad, bad CB!!

CB--I'm just wondering where to buy a Wonderbra so good that my co-workers complain!

So I guess the rule here is that we are to say kind words about the OP or say nothing at all......<BR>I'm behind Fairydust on this one. Venting is a healing process so is expressing your point of view. This is not the 1960's so we can leave racial comments to the wayside. Whats really the issue here? Is the MB handbook be rewrote by NB? Does Steve know this? People have called me names-you don't see me posting saying I can't handle being called immature. Go ahead sink you teeth into the comment but remember it was the OW who called me up and said this after I confronted my H in our home about the affair. Its a free country and I served my time fighting for that freedom while folks slepted peacefully back here in the states-I am going to use this right....If I use it wrongly God will be the one who will pass the judgement...He's the umpire of this baseball game and will make the calls.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trs:<BR><B>So I guess the rule here is that we are to say kind words about the OP or say nothing at all......</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Where did I say to say "kind" words? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I'm behind Fairydust on this one. Venting is a healing process so is expressing your point of view.</B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with fairydust (and YOU) on this point too!<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is the MB handbook be rewrote by NB? Does Steve know this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Well... uh... no, the MB handbook, if there is one, will not be rewritten by me... I never asked it to be, did I? I doubt Steve knows about this, or cares, to be honest. <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>People have called me names-you don't see me posting saying I can't handle being called immature. Go ahead sink you teeth into the comment <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>I don't need to sink my teeth into it... obviously, you have thicker skin than I do.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...but remember it was the OW who called me up and said this after I confronted my H in our home about the affair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Um... my ex-H had five affairs... and I confronted one, and was confronted by another one's H (we worked together to end the affair between his wife and my then-H), as well as some other confrontations with "problem" women... <P>...and since I was also an OW who spoke to the live-in girlfriend of the man (nicely, I might add -- I apologized and was very remorseful)... <P>...I think I might have an understanding of what you're saying.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Its a free country and I served my time fighting for that freedom while folks slepted peacefully back here in the states<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Thank you for that... and for giving us freedom.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If I use it wrongly God will be the one who will pass the judgement...He's the umpire of this baseball game and will make the calls..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Yes, God will make the calls. You are right about that! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

<B>trs -</B>So, it's either your way or the highway??? On the subject of "re-writing" the MB handbook, please point out to me the chapter where it says that it is helpful and constructive to <I>continually</I> bad-mouth the OP. I must get a different web page than you do when I type in the URL into my browser.<P>The "MB Handbook" relates <B>only</B> to interactions between the BS and the WS. OP are involved only in the tenet of "no contact". Period.<P>Venting is very good as you say. However, "venting" is not best illustrated by post after post by the same individual ranting and raving about the OP, calling them names, either justified or not. This is <B>never</B> going to restore a marriage.<P>Fairydust had a post last year that discussed OW being "whores". Oh yeah, that's really going to get a H back. If the OW is a "whore", doesn't that make the WS a "john". In the normal world, "johns" are looked down on almost as much as the "whores". My point earlier was that the posters here who have the most vitriol, hatred and name-calling of the OP seem to be the ones to give the WS a free ride and not force them to take responsibility for what they have done.<P>No one as told you or anyone else that you are forbidden to call OP anything. You were just asked to realize that your comments might offend others that you might not have thought about. In other words, you have to be careful about being "selfish" about your own needs here.<P>So, you served your time fighting for our freedoms. I respect you and am thankful to you for that. What you are doing now is defending "collateral casualties" from "friendly fire". No one should be caught dead trying to justify that.<P>I respect NB's feelings on this. I do not believe that we should censor any name calling. At least NB didn't get the moderators to shut this thread off like the poster "from texas" did on the D/D board a while back simply because he was offended by the discussion there.<P>Say anything you need to say to get past the pain and we will listen and emphathize, but why cause pain for innocent others. Does it make you feel better? Does it help your marriage? Does it have any impact at all on the OP? I would think that the answers to all three of these questions is: "NO".<P>--DeWayne--<P>P.S. <B>lor</B> - when you find that store, could you check and see if they carry "Wonderjockstraps"????<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited March 29, 2001).]