Let's stop the FAT (overweight) comments - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Hey, I've been on both sides of infidelity... and I know how it is to hate -- no, HATE -- the OW. But PLEASE, can we stop the comments like "fat [censored]" and how she caused "an earthquake" and comparisons (with a link, no less) to Sumo wrestling?My gosh, have any of you ever had a weight problem? I used to weigh 300 pounds (I've lost over 100) and I HATED myself. I know you'll tell me that your OW doesn't "hate herself" or something similiar -- but do you understand how hurtful it is to read those comments? Would you make a comment about disability or race? No, I don't think you would, because you wouldn't want to hurt anyone on this board who has a disabillity or is of a differing race.It frankly just hurts me to read this stuff, even if your pain is "understandable"... ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

If it bothers you then don't read it! There are many posts I find offensive here for different reasons but I simply don't read them. Stop taking thing so personally geez! People should be free to vent here w/o worrying about who they might offend.

I agree with New-beginning. It's ok to vent but you don't need to be so insensitive to others. Everyone on the board is hurting or has been hurting. Don't add to the hurt.

I apologize if my comments offended you or anybody else here. That certainly wasn't my intention. But I don't apologize for speaking my mind about exactly what I think about the OW looking the way that she did.I'm sorry, but a woman that heavy does NOT have any business being dressed the way that she did - a halter top that ties in the back that barely covered her breasts and a a leather miniskirt that barely covers her butt. Personally, I feel that even if you have a figure like Jennifer Lopez, you don't need to wear clothes like that. By flaunting herself the way that she did that night, I feel that she set herself up for each and every comment that was made toward her. I don't care if you're "secure" with your body or not. And you're right - I never have been extremely overweight. I've certainly never looked like Calista Flockhart, but I've never been extremely heavy. I am about 18 lbs over what I'd like to be right now due to my (now lost) pregnancy and the fact that I haven't worked out in a while, but because I'm tall, it's only noticeable w/o clothes. I'm working out and cutting out the starches and the sugar, so I know that I'll get to where I want to be.I'm not saying that you can't be overweight and a beautiful person, because you can. Holly (the friend mentioned in my previous post) is a model for Lane Bryant, and she is gorgeous! Her hair, nails, clothes and makeup are always perfect - with the way that she takes care of herself and carries herself, all you see is a beautiful woman with a great personality. With the OW, the weight was the first thing that you notice because she actually draws attention to it. She flaunts it in a crude and tactless way. I'm sorry, but if she doesn't want to be the "butt" of anyone's jokes, she should cover it up.A disability can't be helped. Nobody should be ashamed of their race - that doesn't need to be helped! But the OW in my situation is in complete control of her own destiny - she made herself what she is today, and I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. I do sincerely hope that you don't take what I've said personally - it was only directed towards her. I have always been taught to speak my mind, and wouldn't you agree that it's better for me to express my frustrations here and get it out of my system on an anonymous forum (well, for most people it is.) As I said, when one presents themselves in a manner in which she chose to, she is setting herself up.

I agree with you....Hey, how have you been????? What is going on with you?

Hmmm...Obviously, I don't take the comments "personally" since they are not directed TO ME. So, no, I'm not sitting here crying about it or anything. ...and... No, a disability cannot be "helped" but there are some within the "fat community" that feel that fat is a disability -- so -- to some, that cannot be helped either. But you make a somewhat valid point, with regard to the comparison of disability vs. fat. But that is not my point either.So, you might wonder, what is? You know, I had to stop and think about it, seriously. And here's what I came up with:When we begin to use the physical attributes - or lack thereof - as a guage for the value of a person, we ignore the REAL problems. The real problem in the case of most OW is **not** that they're fat, or dress slutty, or have leather skin... it is a lack of integrity and honor... or a mental illness (as some have argued on this very board)... or simply that they are extreemly selfish women.Remember, I had FIVE OW in my life, and I had to look beyond what they looked like and look AT who they were and how they met my then-H's needs. Also, I was an OW (which is what brought me to MB in the first place), and I was heavy at that time. I got the emails from the OM's girlfriend/live-in that called me fat and ugly, and I know how it feels from that side too. Bottom line though, is that I met a need, despite my weight, that his girlfriend did not. **And PLEASE do not misunderstand me ** I was WRONG and SELFISH. So, and I hope I am making SOME KINDA SENSE [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

, but I just feel that it hurts you, not helps you, when you use weight as the issue.Whew! Hope I don't sound preachy. I don't mean to...------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 27, 2001).]

Hi Susan,Long time, no read!!I've been briefly over on the Divorce/Divorcing board... David and I are divorced, and I am with someone else now... and it's quite a long story. If you'd like, you can read about it on this link <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002352.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002352.html</A> I have yet another link on that thread that tells the story right before my divorce became final... I know, I am full of drama!!My email addy is the same, if you still have it... Nice to "see" you, Susan!------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Sheryl, I was one of the people making fat comments, but you're absolutely right. Obviously the OW, who is more than twice my size, and less than 1/2 my age, met needs of my H that I wasn't meeting, and I can't imagine I would have felt any better about her if she was older, thinner, or prettier. I guess it just feels good to attack her for her obvious weaknesses because I still feel so hurt by what happenned between her and my H.

Gads, one of the gals here at work joked that I should change my Username to "Eminem" [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

NB, you are totally entitled to your opinion. But I can't agree with you, and I'm not going to walk on eggshells worrying about whether or not I'm going to offend anybody with something that I say. If I have to censor what might be offensive to one person or another, then hell, I might as well stop posting altogether.When I first came here, there was a gal who made jokes about the flat chest of her H's OW. Now, I always joke that the only subject that I ever made straight "A's" on was my chest, but I never took offense to the flaming that she did. If she would have said "Carolina Belle, with that chest the only thing you'll ever amount to is a surfboard," then I might have taken some offense to it, but it wasn't about me.She certainly isn't a poor, innocent victim of big, bad CB's verbal assault. I'm not saying any of this behind her back - she has heard from me 90% of what I've posted about her. I wouldn't have gone there if she wouldn't have been harrassing me as badly as she was that night. I'll be a "Plan A" Doormat for my H because I love him, but I'll be damned if I'm going to back down from the OW when the only reason she's attacking me is because I'm his wife, and he had the "nerve" to cut off all contact w/her and stick w/me and his son. She had to hide in a group of her barfly friends before she could go off on me, and in the end, I still feel like I came out of that as the better woman.I know that their link was alcohol - nothing more, nothing less. I mean, let's face it - in those dives, it doesn't take a lot to become the "Belle of the Bar" - especially around 2:00 AM! I know damn well I didn't give my marriage a 100% effort, but I do now, and we're doing a lot better than we were. My H only goes to the bar when he's with me now (maybe once a month), and he no longer drinks at home. Problem solved.And I won't even get started on the whole "mental illness" thing. Don't get me wrong - if somebody needs personal counseling, I sincerely hope that they get it. But the majority would be doing themselves and the counselor a favor if they just "get over it." Lick a finger, turn a page, and move on. Do some people genuinely need psychological help - ABSOLUTELY. But I have seen so many people use it as an excuse - my #1 pet peeve is people who justify a wrong by saying, "the devil made me do it," "I'm a sex addict," etc. There are many, many people in the world who have had worse odds that have made something of themselves. I strongly feel that if it's holding you back, do something about it. If one is uncomfortable with their weight, see their doctor about a diet/exercise regimen. If you're uncomfortable with your breast size **raising hand**, get a boob job (which I'll be doing this summer). If you're afraid of being around people because your nails look bad, glue some on. If something is keeping somebody from feeling great about themselves, they need to either do something about it, or live with it. If you're an alcoholic, suck it up and get to AA. But these excuses have got to stop! **deep breath**(see, I told you I shouldn't have gotten on this subject! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)My post was very therapeutic for me. I got what I needed to get off my chest OFF of it, and now I can let it go. NB, I'm sorry that it bothers you, I truly am. But Tina's right - if it bothers you, don't read it. If my headline pertains to an encounter with the OW or a general "vent" post, don't walk - RUN! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I've heard more derragatory remarks made on primetime sitcoms than what I've posted. I'm a direct person - I haven't decided yet whether that's a flaw or an asset. I'm honest about what I feel. I've learned the hard way not to dwell on things or make excuses, and my marriage has become better than it was. I'm still learning, and I love reading other people's opinions...but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with them. Just like you don't have to agree with mine.And no, that wasn't preachy. But have you ever thought about joining a debate team? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

This sums up my view of the OW in a non-offensive way:The Difference Between Winners and Victims:Victims blame everyone for their lack of success. They blame the system, it is just set up for "certain" people. They blame "the breaks" - they just never get any lucky breaks. They blame their "circumstances." In fact, they blame their mother and their first grade teacher.Winners; however, accept responsibility for the fact that they did not achieve their goal because they didn't study the rules, they didn't talk to enough people, they didn't hold enough classes, they watched that television program when they could have been making calls, etc. They are thankful that they took the good and bad from their upbringing and made something positive from all of it.Victims see every obstacle as a huge ugly problem that is just insurmountable. Winners see every obstacle as an opportunity for improvement and growth. It may have cost them a lot this time, but it'll never cost them again. Winners realize that they will see that same obstacle again.Victims do nothing to personally motivate and inspire themselves, they don't like to "sweat", they never give a thought to the choices they make daily. Winners; however, make their own inspiration, perspiration, prayer, and right choices.Victims love the attention of wallowing in self pity - winners love the recognition of accomplishments. Discipline is an ugly word to victims and the daily pursuit of goals for the winner. Adversity breaks victims - Winners use adversity to break records.Which are you? If you recognize symptoms of the victim in you, you can change it - winners have learned to be winners. They weren't born that way.

Well...LetSTry,Hey, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel "bad" for their words... just to temper it a bit and think about what you're writing... that it may hurt someone... but... CB has certainly painted a picture that makes me give this more thought... so, please don't feel bad, okay? CB,Let's take the comment by Tina... which was short, not too sweet, and to the point: I found it a bit rude. Get over it, she says. Totally dismisses my feelings, as far as I can tell.Now here you come, and you (quite eloquently, I might add) give the pros and cons and all that jazz, and frankly, I hear you. In fact, I think I'll just go ahead and agree -- TO A POINT. Will you agree that bad-mouthing the OW re: her shortcomings (besides the moral ones, of course) makes you feel better but doesn't address the REAL ISSUES at hand? Oh, and all you need to do is a search on me and you'll find out how *I* feel about the mental illness defense -- as in, I don't believe it -- at least nine times out of ten. Obviously, it does exist, but that crap about "I couldn't help it I was outta my mind" doesn't wash with me.So, CB, I have respect for your opinion, although I CERTAINLY think that the Sumo link was WAY OVER THE LINE, but hey, if it makes you feel better, then go right ahead with my blessings... and yeah, I'll stay away if I see it's about the OW... But no luring me in by titling your posts with something like What I like about new_beginning, okay? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by new_beginning: Will you agree that bad-mouthing the OW re: her shortcomings (besides the moral ones, of course) makes you feel better but doesn't address the REAL ISSUES at hand? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Grudgingly. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I wish that I could tell you that I didn't derive any satisfaction from my remarks about her...but I'm just not there yet! Hopefully one day soon, I will be. I'm working toward it. I am getting over (most) triggers a lot better than I used to - there was a point where H and I had the same fight every single day. That was too draining, and surprise, surprise, things were better when we just moved on. It's a process. (Keep smiling!) Anyway, I have a fussy two-year-old on my hands, so I'm going to throw in the towel on this one. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I appreciate the perspective, hon, I really do!CB [This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited March 27, 2001).]

Yeah, CB, it was nice sparring with you... and remember, it's not like I don't understand how it is to find the OW repugnant... oh, believe me, I do... Have fun with your two year old... man, they grow up fast!!------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Well, all I have to say is that if you venture to an OW board you will see that they seem to think that ALL wives are fat, lazy and sexless. If it makes people feel better to vent them so be it. I would hate to see this board become one of those PC boards where we have to be "understanding" to the plight of the unrepentant OP. No thanks.

Fairydust and anyone else still reading --Let me give you another example, and maybe this will help to explain where I'm coming from:My ex's OW#2 was a born-again Christian. Her choice. Not anything she was born into... ...that said...+++++++++++I went to meet her at a park near our home...and she brought her great big Bible. She was dressed like one of those Christian mommies you see... sundress, tennies and bobby sox... all sweet, doncha know.She used her bestiest and sweetiest "Christianity voice" and told me that Jesus loved me AND her, and my then-H loved me, but he loved her too. She cried something that resembled real tears. She then began to "witness" to me, as if she had the right to talk about our Lord and my then-H in the same sentence, let alone the same lifetime. ++++++++++++Now, I could go on and talk about how sickening I find Christians, because of that meeting. I could go into the verses she used, and how she held my hands, hugged me... all of it in Christ's name. Personally, I could've blasted her butt from that park straight to hell, but hey, who am I to judge her motives? Would I offend Christian's on this board if I really went off on her. You bet!! Why? Because I would be mocking their religion, and assuming something that may or may not be true. Would I feel better? Yep, because I'm human, and to make someone else look worse than me (esp. since my spouse chose her over me) makes me feel better.But what does it solve? Or rather, maybe I should ask... what DID it solve? It solved nothing... By the way, I am a struggling Christian... and no, she didn't sour me from Christ forever... I just don't see that making someone else look bad so I look better helps anything.------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 28, 2001).]

Throwing caution to the winds....my H's former OW was too dang gangly and skinny and blonde. Ok, MB skinny blondes let me have it...(oh, I'm blonde now...and losing weight...geez I can't win, I hate my own type, thank goodness, I'm not gangly [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)Sheryl, I totally understand what you are saying...and some things are more hurtful than others. In a perfect world our appearance would be accepted no matter what. My H said he fell out of love with me because I was overweight and "not desirable". My weight was within normal limits on the charts. True, the top end of the chart, but normal."Fat" is used as a slam as well as a description. Like, blonde. I doubt this will disappear with a little sensitivty training, but you have full reason to express how you feel about it.Love ya, Sheryl. ------------------ Lor "Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

New Beginning,This whole post reminds me of why I missed you so much!!I agree with you, but let me state why in a little different way. Venting is one thing, but cruelty is another. The fact that you have been mistreated by a spouse does not "entitle" you to be unkind or uncaring. Spewing out a lot of hurtful stereotypical comments and then saying "I didn't mean to offend anyone" is like firing a gun randomly and saying "I didn't intend to shoot anyone". You might not have meant to do it, but you sure didn't care enough not to do it.We have all discussed weight here enough to know that in many cases the OP IS younger, thinner, firmer, etc., etc. That's why comments about being fat, unattractive, old, etc., are so damaging. Our self-esteem has already been pretty well trashed by the fact that our husbands CHOSE to have an affair with another woman, so we are really sensitive to anything that makes us feel worse about ourselves.Another thing that I often wonder about..... How does it help to point out how horrible and trashy the OP is? Doesn't that say something pretty unflattering about your spouse and the choice that they made, even temporarily? It is difficult for me to understand how a BS can go on and on about how horrible the OP is, all the while ignoring or excusing the fact that their SPOUSE is the one who betrayed them. At least I haven't READ of any cases of forced adultery at gunpoint.....Peppermint

Howdy Hey Lor!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Well, since David's OW were of all shapes and sizes, religious affiliations, and temperments... hmmm... I guess I could put them all together and make one big OW that fit it all... and she would look like me, or you, or anyone... because... as crappy as all this is, these OW (as well as our spouses, and US, for crying-out-loud) have made some HORRIBLE mistakes and are (dare I say it?) HUMAN. Icky humans, but human, nonetheless... and I include myself in that group... I have been icky.Ah, dear [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

sweet

Peppermint, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by peppermint: Venting is one thing, but cruelty is another. The fact that you have been mistreated by a spouse does not "entitle" you to be unkind or uncaring. Spewing out a lot of hurtful stereotypical comments and then saying "I didn't mean to offend anyone" is like firing a gun randomly and saying "I didn't intend to shoot anyone".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Man, this is better than my little OW example!! I love it!! Thank you!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Friends,I am here, just hanging out, trying to learn some stuff, go forward in my life without hurting anyone, and dig deep into my soul for answers to life's questions -- mostly, truth be told, they are **MY** questions. I am not one to judge anyone... I have been on every single side of infidelity, and some would say that I am there now, as I write this. It's a long, long story and the link is on Susan's reply on this thread if you're interested. All I know for sure is this: I am so very tired of hurting, and of hurting others. My marriage made me happy, sad, livid, sick... and everything in between... we all just need some peace... there is one person who ends her posts with something like, "I just want to sit in the garden in peace"... that's how I feel too. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Peppermint...you said what I was thinking and afraid to post.

Bonnie,Why were you afraid to post? One thing around here... you really **are** safe.Lord knows I've said some things that are pretty shocking, and people still seem to like me okay -- well, most of 'em, anyhow [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Now, I could go on and talk about how sickening I find Christians, because of that meeting. >>>I consider myself a Christian (though I'm definitely not a zealot) and I wouldn't be offended in the least by bashing the OW for her supposed Christian behavior. But it wouldn't make sense to bash all Christians for that. I don't think anyone here was bashing all fat people, just their particular OW.

New Beginning..it's just that I'd read those comments about the OW and to be honest....I thought "oh my gosh! She sounds awful!" and then I'd think "what kind of a man are they married to that would even take a second look at the OW, or...do they look just as awful?" I was afraid to post that because it's putting some of the blame back on the OM also.

Peppermint,I'd like to take you back about six months to a post that I did (shortly after D-Day 2) - tell me if these words ring a bell: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> After all the time you have spent on this site, I'm sure nobody has to tell you about lovebusters. And girl, these are definitely LOVEBUSTERS!HOWEVER, I have to agree with Dylan. They are prize-winning lovebusters!! I thought that I had been somewhat harsh until I read your comebacks. You are hilarious!!I understand your point. You want to make some sense of the choice he made. You know logically that you are superior to the other woman in nearly every way, but your husband still chose to be with her. I felt the same confusion for a long time.Belle, sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and not say those things to your husband. But feel free to tell them to us, we LOVE hearing this kind of thing about the other woman!!!Peppermint <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was a far more angry in that post from last year than I was in this one from this week, yet then I was "hilarious," and now I'm "cruel, unkind, and uncaring". That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.Yes, it does take two to tango. But like I said earlier, I took a vow before God to love, honor, and keep my husband, until death do us part. I made no such promises to the OW. You'd better believe that my husband heard about what I thought about his cheating - I ended up leaving him when I found out what had happened. But he wanted to make the marriage work - he stopped going out to the bars, he cut off all contact with the OW, he even cut off all contact with his former best friend (another alcoholic) who introduced him to the OW so that he wouldn't have to be put into the situation again. Sure, I know he betrayed me, but I took a vow, and he took the steps to ensure that I wouldn't have to worry about him and the OW again.On the other hand, this "woman" would call my house to harrass my family after H kicked her to the curb, called my two-year-old son a "[censored] who would end up a loser just like his parents," and after eight months, still feels that she has to give my family hell. If you ask me, she got off pretty damn easy Saturday night. But hey, as long as I don't have to deal with her again, I've said my peace...I can turn a page and move on. Peppermint, I am sorry about all of the hurt that you've had to endure. Remember, that is a common bond that all of us have. But the endless skepticism over one's motives is really unnecessary here, of all places. I was genuine in my apology to NB. I truly did not think that they would bother her, or you, or anybody else because they were not directed at any of you. I expected my remarks to be taken with a grain of salt. I forgot how insecure BS's can get over certain things (present company included). I did not intend to offend any of you. I absolutely, 100% hoped to offend her. I'm not making excuses for it - I'm petty where she is concerned. And before anybody else jumps in here and gets long-winded about how it's not going to change anything to "trash" her, I know that, already. It's not going to do any good - nothing anybody says will change my opinion of the OW. Look at it like this:I'm a smoker. I know that it's bad for my health, but I enjoy it. You can show me all of the Surgeon General warnings you want, you can show me pictures of dead smoker's clogged lungs - I'm still not going to quit. I'm not going to change who I am. I'm not going to try and develop a more "conventional" sense of humor. You're welcome to give me your opinion - I can certainly appreciate that. But just because I see things differently does not give anybody the right to talk down to me.[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited March 28, 2001).]

<<<Another thing that I often wonder about..... How does it help to point out how horrible and trashy the OP is? Doesn't that say something pretty unflattering about your spouse and the choice that they made, even temporarily?>>>H's OW was a slutty, white trash piece of garbage who went out of her way to try and ruyin my life when he kicked her a-- to the curb. Nothing about my H's behavior during the time of the A was flattering. Let's see - binge drinking, drugs, bar hopping, ADULTERY, the list goes on and on. He even said to me "I am disgusted at myself for what I have done. I acted like a total scumbag." Yep, right on the money.<< It is difficult for me to understand how a BS can go on and on about how horrible the OP is, all the while ignoring or excusing the fact that their SPOUSE is the one who betrayed them.>>>Who ignores or excuses it? Certainly not me. He WAS being a horrible person, he did HORRIBLE things and he admits that. He betrayed our vows and our marriage and he is guilty of that. She is guilty of being a rotten person who doesn't care about anyone but herself. He has shown remorse and has gone out of his way to make up for his wrongdoings. If she would have just crawled back under the rock she came out of when the A was over I would have just let it be. Of course she couldn't do that. The only thing she is sorry for is that she got dumped. She tried to make my life a living hell and wouldn't leave us alone. She said horrible things to me and I never did a thing to her. Just like she felt she owed me no kindness I owe her none either.

fairydust, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by fairydust: I consider myself a Christian (though I'm definitely not a zealot) and I wouldn't be offended in the least by bashing the OW for her supposed Christian behavior. But it wouldn't make sense to bash all Christians for that. I don't think anyone here was bashing all fat people, just their particular OW.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But... it isn't the **behavior** being bashed... it's the details. In my original post, I spoke of specific remarks - "I thought there was an earthquake" and the like... if someone said, "the OW was very overweight and I can't stand that my H finds her attractive"... that's a far cry from... "The OW is a fat pig with brown lipstick, or was that gravy, blah, blah, blah". It's the name-calling, cruel remarks, and judgements about something that so many of us struggle with on a daily basis. Bonnie,Well... don't ever worry. I've gotten to the point where unless it's gonna hurt someone, my feelings are valid... and if I want to write them, I will. I'm sorry, by the way, for your continued pain. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Hi again, CB,Hey, as I told you yesterday... or was it this morning (I'm over 40, what can I say?)...Just as you stand by your feelings, I do the same with mine...You know for a fact that if someone said, as fairydust mentioned on this thread already, that the wife of the OM was a fat lazy cow, we'd all hear about how cruel that was.Look, my point in the beginning of this thread was to discuss how name-calling **might** hurt some of us. I have been overweight most of my life, and I get riled up when I see those thoughless remarks that some would find funny. As I said, those remarks were not about me personally... just as the remarks made about fat wives isn't about any wives in particular here... but dammit, I **was** a fat wife during my H's three early affairs, and I hated myself enough... I don't need to be reading that kind of stuff.So, if I know ahead of time that it will be a thread full of name-calling and venting... hey, I'll stay away. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

This is interesting.I am 5'7" and weigh 235. I have a womanly shape. Yeah, to some I am fat. So what? I see women/wives here share their sizes, and often it's around 5'4" at 110 pounds, and those kinds of numbers. It's always when describing how fat the OW is. "What did he see in her, I'm healthy and look good, I'm 5'4" and wiegh 110." If it makes Carolina Belle feel better to make fun of the OW's body, so what. I read that thread, and there were many there who did the same. Just know that when you do that, you might offend some. It's the chance you take. You know that. Oh well. Plus, in the world of karma, you might just gain a bunch of weight yourself. Then you'll understand.Oh, and I guess I am the one with the sig line you liked, new_beginning. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ I just want to sit in the garden in peace~~*Statue*[This message has been edited by Statue (edited March 28, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Statue: Plus, in the world of karma, you might just gain a bunch of weight yourself. Then you'll understand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah yes, blessed Karma! I've actually talked about this before. I had a friend who cheated with a married man. She was divorced at the time, they became "friends" and she swore, SWORE I tell ya, that it would go no further. She ended up marrying (and later divorcing) him. I chuckled to myself... that's what she got, I reasoned. How soon afterward did I have an affair? About a year... and yes, I did go back to her and apologize for my actions. I didn't treat her with kindness, because my then-H had had several affairs by that time and I had NO TIME for OW. Had I treated her with love instead of judgement... who knows what might have happened...Just a thought...------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

I'll certainly support the right of anyone who wants to use ugly words to vent. I usually skip those posts though.Personally, I try not to describe others harshly. Not sure I can explain why or how, but somehow it damages my heart and soul to demean others. Maybe others do not find that true, but I do.Guess that sounds sappy, huh?Kathi

Fairydust - I am exactly where you are. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the explanation - I'm in the exact same boat. If she would let it be, so would I. NB - Hey, I'm 21 and I'm having the same problem (Harrison Ford said it perfectly - "it isn't the age, it's the mileage). It's fine, really. Like I always say, if two people agree on everything, then one of them isn't necessary. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I can respect other opinions, I just don't like it when people try to cram it down my throat and say "this way is the only right way!" I will stand up for my point of view 100%, but I'm not so closed-minded that I can't at least listen to others (I think that you're probably the same way). As the only democrat amongst a group of engineers here at work, I've learned how to make my voice heard. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Bonnie - The main attraction between H and OW was alcohol, but we were having a lot of problems at that point in the marriage as well (check out my summer posts). That certainly doesn't justify it, but I understand where he was coming from. Eventually he felt so "trapped" that he resented everything about me. I'm extremely high-maintenance - I get the nails done every 2 weeks, foil highlights, makeup, waxing, tanning, etc. I admit that I am very superficial as far as my appearance is concerned. I guess a part of him wanted to knock me off of my high horse, so to speak. I guess it did a little bit, but I think it made him look a hell of a lot worse than me. I don't know, it's in the past, so his motives don't matter to me anymore.

Hi Kathi, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by kam6318: I'll certainly support the right of anyone who wants to use ugly words to vent. I usually skip those posts though.Personally, I try not to describe others harshly. Not sure I can explain why or how, but somehow it damages my heart and soul to demean others. Maybe others do not find that true, but I do.Guess that sounds sappy, huh?Kathi<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh yeah... and I LIKE sappy...And maybe that's what I was clumsily trying to say in the first place...Thank you for saying it so eloquently (sp?) [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Hi again CB, We were writing at the same time! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Yes, we both can agree to disagree on this one!! You're only 21... sigh... oh, to be 21 again... but I digress... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 28, 2001).]

I think the reason why we BS's attack the OW with the over weight issue is because we know it hurts in some sick way. We all know that being betrayed hurts tons......how can we get back at the OP??? We can vent and call them names. Personnally I haven't seen OW but once-back when it all started and I wolk her up....she has hidden all other times....WS's are called all kinds of names because they have HELPED wreck our marriages. OP's are not selected for sexual reasons most of the time but because the WS is starving in some way-Think about you are on a desert island and someone gives you moldy cheese-you will eat anything and all of it no matter how much mold is on it-I think an affair occurs this way. WS's are so busy eating the moldy cheese they don't see the shipped that is behind them and is willing to take them to land where they can eat whatever (was food the right thing to talk about???) ANyways I hope all get my point.....part of the whole learning process is learning to express your point of view or to step on toes...or just hang out in the middle....

It seems that the real question here is about the practice of insulting OPs. Like Sheryl I classify myself as a struggling Christian. Is there any other kind? There is, after all, a reason He had to die for us.If we were perfect, we'd never put anyone down to make ourselves feel better. Even so, I've done some of the OP bashing myself. It seems to me that if it helps people get things out of their system by venting at the OP rather than their spouse the practice may be more helpful than harmful. However, at some point, if it is continued, venting like that will keep a person angry and bitter. In CB's case it looks like she is in the category of venting to get it out of her system, so that she can move on. I don't think that is such a bad thing.As for Sheryl's reaction, I understand why some say "don't be so sensitive". However, it's clear that for some the fat comments are a trigger almost as painful as the triggers relating to our spouse's infidelity are for others of us. The truth is there will be many here who can apply any insult directed at an OP to themselves. There is no characteristic we can make fun of that won't be true of many of us.Given that fact, the only way to avoid offending some would seem to be a moratorium on insulting OPs. I don't think that is going to happen. I see value both in having a safe place to vent and in keeping this place one where those who come for help won't feel insulted or uncomfortable. Unfortunately, I don't have any great solutions. The best suggestion I can come up with is to give a little warning, either in the title or in a preface to a post, so that those likely to be offended can avoid it.I suppose the best outcome would be for all of us to become more sensitive to the effects on others of what we say, yet without starting to feel like we have to walk on eggshells. A difficult balancing act, but one worth attempting.Steve

I decided long ago to agree to disagree!Carolina Belle,I didn't know you were the person who wrote the comments NB was referring to. I long ago decided it best for me to skip your posts. When you first came here, I thought your posts WERE funny, and I read them and tried to offer you support. Maybe I have evolved since then, but after hearing about the OW's weight for the hundredth time, it wore thin. fairydust,And your point is? Perhaps that I don't have the right to express that I don't understand something, or to offer an opinion that is different from yours. But then, we've had this discussion before, haven't we? I don't find it necessary to go over that again.Yeah, we're ALL in pain and we all have infidelity in common. We all have different ways to deal with it. If it helps ANYONE feel better to be offensive, have at it. Just don't be surprised when some people are offended, and don't be surprised that some people SAY they are offended. And most of all, don't try to justify bad personal behaviors by saying that it "makes me feel better". That sounds like the same lame excuse I heard from my husband, and I didn't buy it then either.Peppermint

Boy, my head is hurting from all this reading today!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Trs, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think the reason why we BS's attack the OW with the over weight issue is because we know it hurts in some sick way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, but who? If you want to call the OW a fat cow to her face, then it's your beeswax... and yes, I guarantee, it **will** hurt. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>OP's are not selected for sexual reasons most of the time but because the WS is starving in some way-Think about you are on a desert island and someone gives you moldy cheese-you will eat anything and all of it no matter how much mold is on it-I think an affair occurs this way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh boy, I can sink my teeth into this one! Pun intended!! Trs,I had an affair, and wrong as it was (and it WAS, make no mistake!!) the man I had an affair with was NOT some moldy substitute for my then-H. I keep going back to this... affairs happen because a NEED is NOT BEING MET by the spouse. That includes the FIVE affairs my ex-H had. I have to look at ME, at what **I** did or did not do to meet his needs. The women he chose were not pigs... not even ONE of them... they were HURTING AND MORALLY BANKRUPT, as I was when I had an affair. Hey, StillHers, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Like Sheryl I classify myself as a struggling Christian. Is there any other kind? There is, after all, a reason He had to die for us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You know what Steve? I've met a few who really don't seem to struggle with their faith and their daily choices. Have you ever met one or two of those? I find it frustrating and scary that I can't seem to grasp anything but the hem of His robe lately... and I know that's "enough" but it sure doesn't feel like it! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If we were perfect, we'd never put anyone down to make ourselves feel better. Even so, I've done some of the OP bashing myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, {hangin head} me too! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

And I was WRONG. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>However, it's clear that for some the fat comments are a trigger almost as painful as the triggers relating to our spouse's infidelity are for others of us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>YES, YES, YES!!!!!!! I could tell a story here, but I won't (thankful applause from the masses). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The best suggestion I can come up with is to give a little warning, either in the title or in a preface to a post, so that those likely to be offended can avoid it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, good idea!Gosh, peppermint,I have ALWAYS appreciated your comments so much!! You've been around with me from the beginning... and you've always been wonderfully kind... I just wanted to tell you that!! You will always be, sweet Peppermint to me! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

NB,Thank you. You are the second person on the boards today to refer to me as "sweet". I don't know that I agree with that assessment, but I do try [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

!I'll continue to check this post, hoping that the story you COULD tell will find its way in this thread. I've got to agree that we have been here for seemingly a long time, but I still like it here most of the time, and it still helps to visit once in a while.I also have to say that getting to "know" people on this board who have been WS's has made me think of the OW in our case much differently. I never think of you and many others as wayward, only as cyber friends. The OW in our marriage has done some really bad things to me and my family, and certainly I have made comments about her bad bleach job (it's true), her anorexia (also true), and her repeated affairs (ditto). So I could have offended someone who has those same problems.Anyway, thanks for the nice thoughts. YOU ARE A JEWEL. One that I have missed for many months.Peppermint

OK, can't let Sheryl go it alone....I have indeed carried rage and ill feeling about OM, I just rarely express it. The reason?? It doesn't do anything to help him realize what a low-life he is, it didn't stop him from pursuing my W and it didn't change my W's behavior.Long ago on these forums, I noticed a peculiar phenomenon. BS's came on her bashed the living dickens out of the OP while portraying the WS's as weak, easily influenced people who were obviously seduced by the OP or zapped with some mind-numbing ray gun. This is quite simply, rationalization on the part of the BS. I will always see it this way. There are indeed some WS's who due to extreme stress or mental illness were indeed influenced by persuasive OP. But this sure isn't the majority of cases.The bottom line to this is that the WS makes a clear, obvious choice to have an affair. No one puts a gun to their heads. They are the ones betraying the marriage, NOT the OP. The OP didn't vow to you NOT to have sex with your spouse. The OP didn't promise fidelity, exclusivity or not to hurt your feelings. The WS did all of those things and then chose to ignore their promises.That is not meaning to say the the OPs are all a terrific class of people. Some are scumbags, but some are just as good as your WS, just as confused and just as much in the fog.A once-in-a-while bashing of the OP is great stress relief. But the posters who do this continually are either attempting to rationalize the WS's behavior to something less extreme than it really was, or trying to exorcise their own demons of insecurity and feelings of inferiority.Someone here already made a great point. If you completely degrade and demean the OP to extreme levels, what does that say about your WS's tastes? How does that reflect on their original choice of the BS as a marriage partner? Sorry, you can't go on and on about how fat, ugly, stupid, mean, insensitive and so on, the OP is and reflecting on your WS's choice of that person without creating some question as to whether the BS does indeed fit some of those same characteristics. After all, many unhappy people keep choosing the same mate types over and over again.All I am saying is be very careful about what you say about the OP over the long haul. It does truly reflect on you. Venting is OK, a mantra kinda oversteps the bounds. Keep the focus on you and your spouse to maximize the chances of recovery. Anything less makes success less likely. Keep the OP out as much as possible.my 1-1/4 cents...(after inflation)--DeWayne--

Oh Peppermint, it's so true, and you're welcome! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

By the by, I'm telling the story below...Lookie everyone, it's DeWayne [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Thanks for your after-inflation views, my dear man! You know what this reminds me of? Remember that post I wrote right after David's last boink with the church lady? It was called, "Not all OP are pieces of trash"... I *think* it's among the Notable Posts... under Miscellaneous (my dyslexia is showing, good grief!!).~~~~~~~~~~~~~Anyhow, the story about fat vs. infidelity pain...I hesitate only because if, by some freaky chance, the man or woman posted here, it would be completely obvious who I am... oh, well... I am 4000 miles away from them now... so, for the die-hard listener, I submit the following:David and I had been married 14 years and had just moved 100 miles away from his two (at that time) other women. I had no car, three kids, and lived pretty much by myself during the week so that he could keep his job. I worried day and night that he was still with one particular OW, but my fears were put on hold when yet ANOTHER OW came into the picture. David had just had a vasectomy... and I somehow became pregnant anyway *found out it isn't that abnormal, sorry to share that one*. So, I was pregnant, with three kids, alone and getting fatter by the minute. I met a really nice (NOT, but didn't know it then) couple next door. Long story short, I latched on to her for my emotional needs, and her H somewhat too. Turns out he was beating her, and I took her to the hospital. As often happens, she went back to him and then they both hated me. I lost the baby... partly due to stress, partly to the pain I still suffered from the infidelity, partly because I was not healthy, and possibly the baby wasn't either. One night as I was taking out the trash I overheard the neighbors H call me "a fat pig without a brain in my head"... she was silent... and then she said, "I know"...and it LITERALLY brought me to the ground in tears. I'd lost everything, and was a fat loser. It took me months, no YEARS to get beyond that pain. It happened 7 yrs. ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.Pain is pain is pain, folks. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott PeckBY THE WAY -- SINCE I OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO OUTSIDE LIFE AT THIS MOMENT, I WENT AHEAD AND FOUND THE NOTABLE POSTS PAGE, AND YES, THE "OP" POST IS ON IT, TOWARD THE BOTTOM. HERE'S THE LINK. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000554.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000554.html</A> [This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 28, 2001).]

Carolina Belle? It's more like Carolina *****. But then everybody knows how fake southern women are.You are so phony. You're as fake as Pamela Anderson, so the fake boobs are a nice touch. If you strip away all of the attitude and makeup, all you have is a $8/hour receptionist with a Wonderbra.Tom is even more of a loser. You two primadonnas deserve each other. The only intelligence that man has ever shown is when he cheated on you. You're probably too worried that you'll break a nail to be good in bed. Who can blame him for wanting a break from you and that bratty son of yours?You constantly have to be the center of attention. You cry to all of these people about how Tom cheated on you, but then you flirt with everybody at work. The only person that you care about is yourself. I hope that your marriage continues it's decline. No one deserves it more than you. Maybe I'll even get a piece of Tom if he's into big women like you say he is.

Oh Flygirl,This is your first post... so you came here just for this?I am assuming that you have invaded Carolina Belle's **safe place** for one reason only. I hope and PRAY that she doesn't check in on here... this is the most horrible thing I have EVER read on MarriageBuilders.You have also invaded MY safe place... my solice... where *I* go to find a kind shoulder...If you need to talk about YOUR marriage, you've come to the right place. We will be there for you, and we will help you. But this is just mean!!I am sorry for your obvious pain, Flygirl. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

I assume that you were looking for anonymity, Twyla. I know that you wouldn't have the guff to come say this to my face, but next time, don't practically advertise that it's YOU by telling me which dept. you work in here. Plus, you're the only person here who hasn't figured out that my husband goes by "Thomas" - NEVER Tom.It's pretty pathetic that you have so little of a life that you have to obsess yourself with mine. Read a book. Join a club. But stay out of my business. And do NOT say another bad word about my kid. If you have a problem with me, you talk to me - you don't take this gutless approach.BTW, I just printed off your eloquent post to me along with your profile and put it on Cathy's desk. It's just too bad that you forgot that this "$8/hr receptionist" typed up the Employee Handbook. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

And NB - no, she's not married, she's just trying to cause trouble. THAT was why I changed my Username for a while, before I stopped caring.

Well, I just sent this to our moderators... and I'm not happy about it. I was having a very lively debate about something near and dear to MY heart, and now it has been tarnished with this garbage.I suppose this thread will now be locked, or deleted... and I think it had some merit on its own... before this.CB, I'm sorry you had to see this. I meant it when I said I wish you didn't have to... I would die inside, no matter who it came from... but as you know, that's just me.------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

flygirl:from your post, it seems that you know CB, her H and her son. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels that perhaps you should shut your mouth if you have nothing nice to say. This board is for people who are looking for comfort, not for cruel and hateful words like the ones you aimed at CB.If the only reason why you joined here was to hurt her, then I think you might want to re-consider coming by because I don't think you'll find many people who will want you here.

Flygirl,How dare you come on this board & attack someone like you did. We may not all agree on things but we all care about one another & know the pain that has brought each & every one of us here. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

CB -- I'm so sorry this happened...What is this world coming to? I have a lot of respect for your "restrained" reply. It demonstrated the exact opposite of how you were portrayed above...You had every excuse to come "unglued". I am soooooo impressed!!!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Yu stronga woman!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FlyGirl: [B]But then everybody knows how fake southern women are.B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>CB,We all know that southern woman are Steel Magnolias, & us transplants are among the hardiest around. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

:Liked the email on the boss's desk. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

:

Everyone,I think we can all agree that CB handled herself beautifully. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I suppose this thread can now be layed to rest... although I am sad... as I said, this subject is near and dear to my heart. I was just getting into the meat of it.But, I think we'll find other venues to discuss our thoughts [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

After all, that's what this place is about, eh?------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

I rarely post directly toward an individual on a controversial post, however, I do believe it is important that I do so in this case.Flygirl, this is a place for people to come to work on marriages. If you have a marriage issue of your own, we will be glad to hear your story and offer our assistance. However, we do NOT tolerate posts which are direct personal attacks against members. I will not lock this thread, as it is a shame to stop what is a very productive, if controversial topic. But if there is another post of the sort you made on this thread, I will request the Forum Administrator step in and take care of the situation. Thank you in advance for abiding by the rules and etiquette of these forums in the future.------------------ Tempest, Moderator Marriage Builders Infidelity Forums: General Questions II, Just Found Out..., Plan A/Plan B, In Recovery and Read-Only Posts

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by new_beginning: [BI met a really nice (NOT, but didn't know it then) couple next door. Long story short, I latched on to her for my emotional needs, and her H somewhat too. Turns out he was beating her, and I took her to the hospital. As often happens, she went back to him and then they both hated me. One night as I was taking out the trash I overheard the neighbors H call me "a fat pig without a brain in my head"... she was silent... and then she said, "I know"...and it LITERALLY brought me to the ground in tears. I'd lost everything, and was a fat loser. It took me months, no YEARS to get beyond that pain. It happened 7 yrs. ago and I remember it like it was yesterday.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Maybe I don't know the whole story, and maybe I'm off base saying this but...You lived through years of pain over THIS?! Because a loser who beat his wife called you a "fat pig" and his loser wife agreed (probably out of fear)? Why should you care what they think of you? I mean, consider the source!

NB,I didn't mean for my post to be taken the wrong way-I have spoken to OW but I have never been cruel or mean or called her names to her face. I was just trying to explain why BS's may attack OP's with insults-Yes, I know where I was lacking in my marriage and why my H turned to OW. I know if I attacked OW in hurtful ways it would just draw the two of them closer together. I choose to sit back and work on myself. In some cases OP's are better than the BS as far as the way they treat each other. I.E...OW's H was cruel to her and I'm sure my H treats her as well or even better than he treated me. He was a good husband. (notice the was) No matter if Op's are better or not it does not justify an affair. Personal attacks on the boards against OP's help BS's deal with anger-this is good as long as it does not carry on for too long. Name calling always hurts. Everyone is human and everyone has feelings. BS's, WS's and OP's......We will all have to answer to this someday....Fly Girl-Fly away....

Someone here already made a great point. If you completely degrade and demean the OP to extreme levels, what does that say about your WS's tastes? How does that reflect on their original choice of the BS as a marriage partner? Sorry, you can't go on and on about how fat, ugly, stupid, mean, insensitive and so on, the OP is and reflecting on your WS's choice of that person without creating some question as to whether the BS does indeed fit some of those same characteristics. >>>>I totally disagree with this statement. I myself have made some really poor choices in my past life when choosing boyfriends. None of the people I'm thinking about were anything alike and they are all completely different from my H. To tme the only thing that says about a person is that you made some stupid choices in life, I'll admit I have. We all make mistakes. The important thing is that we learn from them. Now it's different if someone keep making the same choice over and over again, such as the person who is always involved with a different alcoholic. Besides ine my H's case my issues arent' about the OW's looks. They are about the fact that she is a horrible person. Of course when she met my H she was all sweetness and light. He wouldnt' have had an affair with her if she'd said "I may act sweet and like I worship you. But as soon as thinkgs don't go my way I am going to turn into a psychopathic b---h, I will try to make your life a living hell and if you choose your W over me I will do anything in my power to torture her." People like that tend to keep that part of their personality hidden, otherwise not too many people would date them.

Oh cjack,You did get the whole story... you didn't consider the details surrounding this (the infidelity, the loss of a baby, my emotional state).... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Why should you care what they think of you? I mean, consider the source! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gee, it all sounds so simple. Just consider the source, right? That might be what *you* would do, but during this horrible time, it isn't what I did. And here, cjack, is where the rubber meets the road regarding this entire subject. I was offended by the original remarks that prompted this thread...others were not. Therein lies the *problem*Trs, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Personal attacks on the boards against OP's help BS's deal with anger-this is good as long as it does not carry on for too long. Name calling always hurts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, if the OP were of a differing race or gay -- and I don't want to hear with "unchosen" differences vs. "chosen" (like fat, in some people's minds) -- you would not attack them, call them names, ect. People would be up in arms!! fairydust, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Besides ine my H's case my issues arent' about the OW's looks. They are about the fact that she is a horrible person.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Once again...not to "stick up" for OP but the fact that your OP is a b*tch and/or a psychopath does not mean you get to make fun of her body size, race, religion, or any other "difference".------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

[QUOTE]Originally posted by new_beginning: Once again...not to "stick up" for OP but the fact that your OP is a b*tch and/or a psychopath does not mean you get to make fun of her body size, race, religion, or any other "difference".>>>>I'm not trying to start a fight but who made these rules? I haven't attacked our OW's looks but I have called her white trash and I stand by it. Why do I owe her anything? The way I look at it I get to say whatever I want about her. She certainly did about me. After the A was over she set out to try and destroy me and my marriage. She told me she hoped every day that I would miscarry my baby. I just can't see how, if I want to insult her in ANY way, how I "don't have that right." No one honored my rights. I owe her no kindnesses of any sort. I understand your sensitivity about the weight issue, but no one was attacking you. It was directed at their particular OP. My whole take on this issue is that I would just hate to see people have to start censoring ther feelings and thoughts. Most of us have been there and needed to vent. I know the last thing on my mind when I was still actively dealing with the OW was worrying about being PC when discussing her.I guess as far as I am concerned the gloves are off when it comes to the person who had an affair with your spouse. She felt she owed me nothing and I feel the same towards her. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff I would attack her for that I would NEVER attack anyone else for in a million years. It's just basic human nature. We can't all always take the high road, as much as we would like to. Sometimes throwing around an insult or 2 just makes the BS feel better. No, it may not be logical or "right" but it just does.[This message has been edited by fairydust (edited March 29, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by fairydust:I have called her white trash ...I understand your sensitivity about the weight issue, but no one was attacking you. It was directed at their particular OP. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If you said this particular person was black ghetto, would that offend someone, even if you directed it to HER ALONE? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I guess as far as I am concerned the gloves are off when it comes to the person who had an affair with your spouse. She felt she owed me nothing and I feel the same towards her. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff I would attack her for that I would NEVER attack anyone else for in a million years. It's just basic human nature. We can't all always take the high road, as much as we would like to. Sometimes throwing around an insult or 2 just makes the BS feel better. No, it may not be logical or "right" but it just does.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Okay, if it makes you feel better. Honest to God... but don't be surprised when someone's hurt by it! ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

For once in my life, I'm at a loss for words (Who woulda thunk it? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)"Flygirl" is a co-worker of mine here. I don't know why she has such a problem with me. This is the first real showing of it that I've seen. I don't think I'm a primadonna - yes, I am guilty of liking to be the center of attention (duh, I'm a professional wrestler. Hel-LO!) - I'm NOT a flirt - And was I supposed to be insulted by the Pamela Anderson likeness? I'll go off on somebody who has caused me and my family pain in a heartbeat. But just because a few jealous, insecure people feel that they need to put me, my H, and my son down to lift themselves up - I could do no more to make her look bad than what she's done to herself. She had left work by the time I caught that post, but her boss and my boss have both been made aware, so we'll see what happens when I get to work this morning. I'm not worried about it, though - she's nothing to me or my family. If I got upset every time somebody had a problem with me, hell, I'd probably be in a clinic by now. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Let's drop that aspect of it now - that's not what this post is about, and we were having a pretty healthy discussion before all this! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Peppermint - I think that you and I are kinda like Bush and Gore as far as our views are concerned, and that's fine. We can certainly co-exist on this board just fine. I appreciate the help that you did give me before, and as a matter of fact, one thing that has made a tremendous difference as far as communication between my H and I was "setting the boundaries" in advance, like what you said you did with FS (eg - if you do "A, B, and C", my reaction will be _____________). Having it spelled out like that has eliminated a lot of gray areas for us, and I do appreciate that.As far as the weight issues is concerned, my point of view has been thoroughly covered between myself and Fairydust. I know that I'm not going to change anybody's mind, but I at least hope that there is a small empathy for where I was coming from. I also hope that everyone understands that it was not my intention to create such a trigger for everyone. I'll try to do a couple Tae-Bo sessions before I "vent" again about the OW. But the thing is...I'm over it now. I seethed over it for like, 3 days, and now it's out of my system. Not one word was said to my H about it, and there was no fighting. It's odd - I looked through all of my past posts (jeez, less than a year and I'm pushing 500 posts. And I say my H has an addictive personality!), and I have had 4 where I have gone off on the OW like this. All have been either after D-Day or immediately following a phone call from her to my house. I know now how to avoid her altogether, so I plan on doing just that. Sat. was the first time that H had seen her since Aug. So it's over, it's done, the lady has sung on that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>So it's over, it's done, the lady has sung on that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh honey, you didn't think I'd let this go, did you?? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

The saying goes, as if you didn't know, ... THE FAT LADY HAS SUNG.Bad, bad CB!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

CB--I'm just wondering where to buy a Wonderbra so good that my co-workers complain! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

So I guess the rule here is that we are to say kind words about the OP or say nothing at all...... I'm behind Fairydust on this one. Venting is a healing process so is expressing your point of view. This is not the 1960's so we can leave racial comments to the wayside. Whats really the issue here? Is the MB handbook be rewrote by NB? Does Steve know this? People have called me names-you don't see me posting saying I can't handle being called immature. Go ahead sink you teeth into the comment but remember it was the OW who called me up and said this after I confronted my H in our home about the affair. Its a free country and I served my time fighting for that freedom while folks slepted peacefully back here in the states-I am going to use this right....If I use it wrongly God will be the one who will pass the judgement...He's the umpire of this baseball game and will make the calls.....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trs: So I guess the rule here is that we are to say kind words about the OP or say nothing at all......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Where did I say to say "kind" words? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm behind Fairydust on this one. Venting is a healing process so is expressing your point of view. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with fairydust (and YOU) on this point too! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Is the MB handbook be rewrote by NB? Does Steve know this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well... uh... no, the MB handbook, if there is one, will not be rewritten by me... I never asked it to be, did I? I doubt Steve knows about this, or cares, to be honest. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>People have called me names-you don't see me posting saying I can't handle being called immature. Go ahead sink you teeth into the comment <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't need to sink my teeth into it... obviously, you have thicker skin than I do. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...but remember it was the OW who called me up and said this after I confronted my H in our home about the affair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Um... my ex-H had five affairs... and I confronted one, and was confronted by another one's H (we worked together to end the affair between his wife and my then-H), as well as some other confrontations with "problem" women... ...and since I was also an OW who spoke to the live-in girlfriend of the man (nicely, I might add -- I apologized and was very remorseful)... ...I think I might have an understanding of what you're saying. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Its a free country and I served my time fighting for that freedom while folks slepted peacefully back here in the states<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you for that... and for giving us freedom. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If I use it wrongly God will be the one who will pass the judgement...He's the umpire of this baseball game and will make the calls..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, God will make the calls. You are right about that! ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck [This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

trs -So, it's either your way or the highway??? On the subject of "re-writing" the MB handbook, please point out to me the chapter where it says that it is helpful and constructive to continually bad-mouth the OP. I must get a different web page than you do when I type in the URL into my browser.The "MB Handbook" relates only to interactions between the BS and the WS. OP are involved only in the tenet of "no contact". Period.Venting is very good as you say. However, "venting" is not best illustrated by post after post by the same individual ranting and raving about the OP, calling them names, either justified or not. This is never going to restore a marriage.Fairydust had a post last year that discussed OW being "whores". Oh yeah, that's really going to get a H back. If the OW is a "whore", doesn't that make the WS a "john". In the normal world, "johns" are looked down on almost as much as the "whores". My point earlier was that the posters here who have the most vitriol, hatred and name-calling of the OP seem to be the ones to give the WS a free ride and not force them to take responsibility for what they have done.No one as told you or anyone else that you are forbidden to call OP anything. You were just asked to realize that your comments might offend others that you might not have thought about. In other words, you have to be careful about being "selfish" about your own needs here.So, you served your time fighting for our freedoms. I respect you and am thankful to you for that. What you are doing now is defending "collateral casualties" from "friendly fire". No one should be caught dead trying to justify that.I respect NB's feelings on this. I do not believe that we should censor any name calling. At least NB didn't get the moderators to shut this thread off like the poster "from texas" did on the D/D board a while back simply because he was offended by the discussion there.Say anything you need to say to get past the pain and we will listen and emphathize, but why cause pain for innocent others. Does it make you feel better? Does it help your marriage? Does it have any impact at all on the OP? I would think that the answers to all three of these questions is: "NO".--DeWayne--P.S. lor - when you find that store, could you check and see if they carry "Wonderjockstraps"????[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited March 29, 2001).]

Nb your a strong woman who has been thru alot with your H... I wish I gave us freedom-I didn't....I have alot of close friends who have been in your shoes and are the most strongest beautiful women in the world...you sing-not because your not a perfect weight but because you have beauty inside and you need to let it out....You posted a very good thread...I don't have thick skin, I wouldn't bawl everynight if I did...your H never deserved you..you have given this immature little spoiled brat some words of wisdom-can you call OW for me and give her an earful? I defend fairydust not only because I agree with her but because she has always helped me out....Heartpain-please go back to my posts on this subject regarding that it is not good to continully vent on the op. We all got the welcome thread and I think I am using it correctly-please look at all my posts they will speak for me...I was not in the army so please do not accuse me of holding a weapon and participating in "friendly fire"I see I have hit a nerve with you and did not mean to, I think we are aloud to vent in different ways about the OP-I have tried to do my own by writing it on paper instead of posting it but I think there are times when we need to vent and the support system here helps some of us get thru the venting, I don't want anyone to lsoe that priviledge-I hope I have compassion enought to listen to their vent and find out the real reason behind the name calling, people WS's, BS's and OP's all need to feel welcomed ... I think we all need to sit around a cheesecake and just jabber!!!!I'm done.....I like wine with my cheesecake....[This message has been edited by Trs (edited March 29, 2001).]

Oh Lor, CB, and DeWayne!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

My gosh, the Wonderjock... tee hee... and then find me a Wondersaddlebags for these thighs of mine! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I'll let Trs write back to your post DeWayne, if she chooses...But thanks for your support. Platonic hugs to you, my man!!My goodness Trs, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Trs: Nb your a strong woman who has been thru alot with your H... I wish I gave us freedom-I didn't....I have alot of close friends who have been in your shoes and are the most strongest beautiful women in the world...you sing-not because your not a perfect weight but because you have beauty inside and you need to let it out....You posted a very good thread...I don't have thick skin, I wouldn't bawl everynight if I did...your H never deserved you..you have given this immature little spoiled brat some words of wisdom-can you call OW for me and give her an earful? I defend fairydust not only because I agree with her but because she has always helped me out....I think we all need to sit around a cheesecake and just jabber!!!!I'm done.....I like wine with my cheesecake....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I went through alot, but no more than many here... plus, I added to the pain and ultimately the end of my marriage by having an affair myself -- BIG MISTAKE -- so don't look to me for the handbook on what to do! I agree about the cheesecake... but maybe it should be carrots and celery -- I'm on a diet! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

NB-I edited my message the same time you were writing a response-I really don;t know which service did the friendly fire though......SORRY!!! Who came up with friendly fire??? Anyways good thread-I need to get back to work!!!!

OH MY GOD!!!!!I'm sorry, I'm going to take you off this subject just a little bit. Another friend of mine saw this war going on in here and sent me this via e-mail. Kay, you are the queen, honey! The Joys of WomanhoodOne of life's mysteries is how a 2 pound box of candy can make a woman gain 5 lbs.My mind not only wanders, it sometime leaves completely.The best way to forget all your troubles is to wear tight shoes.The nice part about living in a small town is that when you don't know what you're doing, someone else does.The older you get, the tougher it is to lose weight because by then, your body and your fat are really good friends.Just when I was getting used to yesterday, along came today.Sometimes I think I understand everything, then I regain consciousness.I gave up jogging for my health when my thighs kept rubbing together and setting my pantyhose on fire.Amazing! You hang something in your closet for awhile and it shrinks two sizes!Skinny people irritate me! Especially when they say things like, "You know, sometimes I just forget to eat." Now I've forgotten my address, my mother's maiden name, and my keys. But I've never forgotten to eat. You have to be a special kind of stupid to forget to eat.A friend of mine confused her valium with her birth control pills. She had 14 kids, but she doesn't really care. The trouble with some women is that they get all excited about nothing and then they marry him.I read this article that said the typical symptoms of stress are: eating too much, impulse buying, and driving too fast. Are they kidding? That is my idea of a perfect day.I know what Victoria's Secret is. The secret is that nobody older than 30 can fit into their stuff.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Carolina Belle: The trouble with some women is that they get all excited about nothing and then they marry him.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>We need a new thread for THIS one! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

And so, dear friends, comes the end (I think, unless someone else chimes in with something--which is fine, mind you) of one heck of a thread!Thank you everyone!!------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

Dear New Be I work with some very heavy women and I think that I am very accepting and tolerant. But I work with young people and it is painful to see an increasing percentage (every year) that are clearly obese. Of course, ridicule is a terrible way to deal with it. My W is 5' 7" and used to weigh in at 130--well, it saddens me that she has begun to put on a fair amount of weight. She rarely walks with me anymore and will never ride bicycle. She complains about the seat, but won't let me experiment with adjustments or different seats. Remember that our society makes it easier for MANY people to gain weight and that many people who might ridicule heavy folks are expressing anger that they aren't as slim as they would like to be. Though I don't know you, I would want to accept you--but certainly would support any effort that you might make to move toward a healthier weight. R

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by roger: I work with some very heavy women and I think that I am very accepting and tolerant. But I work with young people and it is painful to see an increasing percentage (every year) that are clearly obese.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh yes, I agree about the increasing number of overweight people. We're (American's that is) a GREEDY nation and eat WAY MORE than we need -- me included. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My W is 5' 7" and used to weigh in at 130--well, it saddens me that she has begun to put on a fair amount of weight. She rarely walks with me anymore and will never ride bicycle. She complains about the seat, but won't let me experiment with adjustments or different seats.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well... was it baby weight, or depression weight, or ?? What do you think the problem might be? For me, it was a bunch of stuff, that really hasn't been addressed in this thread (I was sticking purely to the vocalizing of *rude* remarks). I was sexually abused, and I have come to believe that I gained weight to protect myself -- but that's a whole other matter which would take a WHOLE other thread! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Though I don't know you, I would want to accept you--but certainly would support any effort that you might make to move toward a healthier weight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you. Actually, my ex-H was very understanding about my weight. He had his problems, obviously, but he always told me I was beautiful, no matter what my size -- and I fluctuated between 135 and 300 pounds. I am **somewhere [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

** in between at this moment.I am in another relationship right now, and all I will say about that is that he thinks I look great also... so, although this is a "heavy" subject for me, I am working to a healthier relationship with my body. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck [This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 29, 2001).]

<<<Fairydust had a post last year that discussed OW being "whores". Oh yeah, that's really going to get a H back.>>>Okay I had to respond to this. My H knows exactly what I think of OW, could care less, thinks I have every right to my opinion and we have been in SUCCESSFUL recovery for 2 years now. As a matter of fact since she chose to harass us continually for months and try to make our lives a living hell his opinion of her isn't exactly too high either.<<If the OW is a "whore", doesn't that make the WS a "john". In the normal world, "johns" are looked down on almost as much as the "whores".>>>When my H was having his A he was just as low a life form, if not even lower than the OW. He is the first to admit this. The difference of course is that he is sorry for his actions.>>My point earlier was that the posters here who have the most vitriol, hatred and name-calling of the OP seem to be the ones to give the WS a free ride and not force them to take responsibility for what they have done.>>>ROFL. There is no way in hell that my H got off easy or was released from his responsibility in ANY way. He accepts full responsibility for his actions and believe me, he has been made accountable. That subject just doesn't seem to come up as often. He was nowhere close to getting a "free ride". I have every right to hate the OW just for the things she did to me AFTER the A was over. She said horrible, evil things to me, harassed me for months, etc. If she would have just left me alone I probably wouldn't feel this way.

Fairydust OK - I'm sufficiently chastised now...You may be an exception, but it really seems to be a familiar mantra by many, many people here..."Oh, my poor, poor spouse, seduced by the evil OP". I've seen this more times than I care to count. People in their misery forget that adultery is a choice. They want to let their spouse off the hook and heap most of the blame on the OP. This is a fog just as bad as the one a WS is in. I believe that after discovery, BS's are often deep in their own fog and that is definitely a barrier to recovery.I'm so very glad that you are in a SUCCESSFUL RECOVERY. And I'm also glad that your husband is accepting of your opinions of the OW. That is really healthy. However, there are a lot of BSs on this board who can create lots and lots of problems for potential recovery by going off on OP alone. As long as they are aware of the roadblocks they might erect, then go for it...I didn't mean to single you out on this, it's just that your thread was a good example of the "name-calling".Continued good luck to you and your H....

Ok, I don't have any comments about this thread! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Just wanted to say "HEY!" to DeWayne and Sheryl! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Mitzi

I have some final thoughts: There are a few of us who will ALWAYS be offended by remarks that specifically target areas of weakness in US. In my life, wieght has been an issue. Possibly it's because I was sexually abused at 9 yrs. old. I was the typical abused personality, sleeping around as an older teen, getting fat, then thin, fat, then thin... I got married, and continued the body-dysmorphia throughout my marriage -- always, I believe, in an attempt to protect myself. Unless you have been in my shoes, you WILL NOT understand.I have had OW in my life. I hate them all. I never said that you shouldn't hate them, loathe them, find them repugnant. But HOW THEY LOOK has no bearing WHATSOEVER on who they are. I was an OW. As I mentioned above somewhere, the girlfriend of the OM wrote me emails and called me fat and ugly -- I was fat, I don't think I'm ugly, but hey, I understood where she was coming from. But it hurt, nonetheless.When she confronted me (over IM) I was apologetic, said I'd never go near her H (she called him that, it was common-law, and I respected her feelings) and told her a little of what I was going through myself (cancer scare, OW in my marriage). Did she understand? She "seemed" to. Did she care? Probably not. Does it matter if she's out there saying her H boinked a fat ugly pig? No, I guess not. But my body size had nothing to do with why this OM chose to have an affair with me, just as how he looked had nothing to do with my affair with him. WE MET A NEED in each other. IT WAS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, which is why I ended it after one hop in the sack and confessed to my then-H that night.Ladies and Gentlemen, life can suck a big one. Infidelity is a ride I wouldn't wish on anyone -- and I am as sorry as ANY ONE OF YOU HERE for the way it insidiously entered MY LIFE. I sincerely wish each and every one of you peace and healed marriages! ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Yikes, what a thread!!!!!!! I am just going to stand by the sofa, toast y'all and smile! Aloha, cl

Well, I guess I just can't let a good thread die ...I have to address an issue here that bothers me very much. I have reason to be very angry with what my husband did/is doing, yes. BUT I do NOT have to think of him in the same way as I think of slug. I didn't MARRY slug. I didn't promise her anything. I never invited her into my life. She barged into mine, has a reputation for doing so with more than one married man in the past. She is a low life sleazebag who attempted to physically attack me, who I suspect of letting air out of one of my tires, who sent me vicious emails, who called my home and hung up when my husband spent time with me. She is a "pig" in the words of others besides myself. She is also overweight, smokes like a chimney, has a voice like fingernails on a blackboard, is NOT in the least bit attractive and is dumb as a rock. I will call her whatever I like, and, although it isn't a very nice (nor probably emotionally healthy) thing, I will despise her for a very long time.I did, however, marry my husband, promise to love and cherish him for the rest of my life. I chose for him to be in my life and to be in his. While he has done a very cruel thing by having this affair and not attempting reconciliation, he has not been abusive in any other way. Yes, it is disrespectful - but I have forgiven HIM because he is my husband and I love him. I believe that an affair is a choice in some ways, but, having talked with a number of people who have 'walked out of the fog', it really is an addiction in others.Heartpain, have you never been compulsive about anything? Never been obsessive? Ever been depressed? I ask because I HAVE been all of those things - and it is difficult for a strong person to break that kind of cycle. Many of our WS's are weak or down when their affairs begin - sometimes even due to our own behavior - and we all know that an affair does NOT strengthen a person. I have recently posted that I have been exposed to the temptation myself - we are all, regardless of what we might ever think, capable of making that terrible choice - that step toward infidelity. Particularly when we are lonely, feeling badly about ourselves, needy, neglected. It is awfully self-righteous of us to sit here at our computers and say "Well, I'd NEVER have an affair!" We might be able to say "I haven't ever resorted to having an affair to meet my emotional needs" but any one of us here could get sucked into something and be in over our heads before we know it. I have known some very strong-willed people who fell head over heels for someone who was married and were able to justify why it was okay for them to be involved with a married person. Perfectly sane, reputable people, suddenly sucked into the murky quagmire of infidelity and INCAPABLE of seeing that what they are doing is just plain WRONG.So, I have seen both sides of the story. So far, I've managed to stay MOSTLY on the "right" side of it - but I am never so foolish as to believe that I am immune, or that I am too "good" to get sucked into that place where my husband is. And if I ever did what slug has done to me, I would deserve being called the most vicious names one could ever think of.Again, I am MARRIED to the WS, not the OP. I love the WS, and didn't even KNOW the OP until she thrust herself into my life uninvited. I never have to like her, and I never have to say nice things about her, and after what she has done to ME, "slug" is a very polite thing for me to call her.I could keep going, but I would only be saying the same things over and over again (even more than I have already). I don't mean to offend anyone here, but I feel very strongly about this.------------------ terri CourageWhatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong.There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right.To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.Ralph Waldo Emerson

Bravo Terri, that was very well put. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

OK terri, congratulations on a point well made. BUT, didn't you notice that I made every effort NOT to generalize. There are exceptions to everything, and I fully acknowledge that. BTW, I have always gotten a kick out of your calling OW "slug". But you have to admit that it isn't something that some other innocent might find "offensive"... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Heartpain, have you never been compulsive about anything? Never been obsessive? Ever been depressed?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, on the above, you've been here longer than I. Don't you remember my months of "Plan A -- Plan obsessive -- Plan Stupid" sequences? Yup, I've been everything you mentioned and demonstrated it quite spectacularly on this board. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>but any one of us here could get sucked into something and be in over our heads before we know it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Again, yup...had the right person come along at exactly the right moment during the worst of this and I would have been lucky not to have succumbed. BUT, don't you think there are some OPs(not slug) that this could also apply to??? And if that's true, wouldn't there be times when the BS would not recognize that and resort to nasty name-calling and generalizations??Your H has put you thru he!! and back several times. My comments really were directed toward those who haven't put in the time, who haven't really done any of the right things to try to repair the marriage, those who sit on their butts, bemoan their fate, do nothing constructive and just gripe about the OP. And there are posters here who fit this description to a tee... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"slug" is a very polite thing for me to call her<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Understatement of the decade!!!!hugs, terri....--DeWayne--

Heartpain, According to your last thread you attacked people who you believe did not Plan A and said they sit on their butt??????? I'm curious as to why you attacked my thread?

trs -OK, maybe my rambling is getting me into trouble here, but you've got to look at the whole point...Plan A, Plan B, whatever, it doesn't matter. If someone puts all of their emotion and effort into bashing the OP rather than diverting as much of that as possible into behaviors that are intended to save the marriage, basically get what they pay for. I've already agreed above that the occasional rant is good for the soul and psyche. Can we at least agree on that??Continual forays into negative comments, negative emotions, etc. create negative karma. Zukov, McGraw and others all say the same thing. "What you fear, you create". Many times, vicious attacks on the OP, without channeling a lot of positive effort into the marriage are the result of fear. Fear that the WS won't ever come back. Fear that the WS will stay forever with the OP. You cannot repair a marriage without tons of positive karma.How can anyone have the energy to do the good things when they wear themselves out beating up the OP?I mean you guys are attacking me like I've said it's a federal crime NOT to forgive, not to kiss and make up with the OP. For Pete's sake, my therapist even referred to my W's OM once as a "scumbag". I pretty much agree with her, but look at my posting history. I haven't made a career out of using every nasty name I can think of and even inventing new ones. Certainly, I have done it on occasion.One of the dangers here is thinking that in every case it's OK to have these vents about OP to the WS. Some WS's are not as deep in the fog as others and won't react by pulling away(example, fairydust...Her H understands or at least doesn't make it an issue). Other WSs will react to these attacks on OPs by pulling away, building a negative picture of the WS, etc.At this point, I have to admit a little confusion on my part. By "attacked my thread", are you referring to my 12:26 reply to your 12:05 post? If so, what offended me was the references to Sheryl "re-writing" the MB handbook. And haven't I agreed with the point that venting occasionally can be a very good thing? Have I ever said that you cannot say bad things about the OP? Did I point you out as one of those who "sits on their butts"? For those keeping score, the correct answers are yes, no and no, respectively.Please re-read my posts if you don't see this. Take my entire message or even my history of postings here to form your opinion about me, not just a phrase or two.I mean, go back and read your reply on this thread at 7:40am on 3/29. Isn't that pretty much what I have been saying? I think so. Different words, maybe stronger words, maybe too strong(and if so, I apologize).I have a suspicion(and I could be dead wrong), but I have a feeling that the BSs here who didn't spend most of their time here bad-mouthing the OP and had the least offensive names were the ones with the best recovery rates. By least offensive, I mean funny, or something related to the affair, but not hurtful, specific attack slurs. I don't know if this is true...Guess I need to spend a weekend checking this one out.trs, I'm sorry I offended you. We have expressed some very similar ideas....

Terri, Trs, and Heartpain,Ya'll been busy while I've been away!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

First, Terri, your post is VERY well written, and it is VERY understandable that you would hate your OP (because of what she's done to you personally -- aside from the obvious affair with your H, of course)... however, I will not deviate from my original mission with this thread-- to make everyone think twice before allowing how the OP is shaped to determine their worth - or lack thereof. Throughout this thread I've had to listen (see! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

) remarks about it being "okay" to say something about weight because "they can't help it" like race or disability. This WAS MY FOCUS of this thread. If you want to call your OW a slug, I honest to God don't care. Heartpain is a good, good man with a heart of gold. He has a VERY valid point also... and it was NOT where I planned to go with my thread, but he makes such a good point also -- and I think it's important. Why did your spouse pick the OP they did (barring alcohol -- in which case it's a whole other ballgame)? What does that say about them and about you? Does it matter at all? It's **so easy** to believe that the OP was a scummy piece of crap who lured your spouse into her (or his, depending) bed. Unless alcohol is involved and your spouse is hanging out at bars (where the girls all get prettier at closin' time), chances are the OP is a *regular* person who, for whatever reason, lost her/his moral compass and did the unthinkable. But that isn't even my point, now is it? No, my point is, and has been throughout this thread, that by making rude remarks about the bodies of OW you are making it sound like fat = scummy, morally bankrupt, dirty, whorish OW. Because I've had a weight problem my entire life, and also I've been an OW, maybe I'm overly senstive. I also want to remember what Statue said a few pages back -- karma has a way of coming back on you (and by that I mean ALL of us, not you personally). Trs,You seem to go back and forth a bit... I know you're torn between hating your OW and "wanting" to go off on her and also not wanting to hurt people like me when you do... you do what you think is best... We really are all friends here, and you are intitled to your opinion... By the by........ it's late and I'm really tired.... plus tomorrow is moving day... so I'm whipped... if this doesn't make sense forgive me!!------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited March 30, 2001).]

Heartpain and NB,Just wanted to make sure that I did not offend anyone-I struggle with thinking OW is somehow better than me-my ego has been killed and I know what EN's I was not meeting with H - I do have my nickname for OW but that is all-I don't like to attack people-went thru physical and emotional abuse all of my childhood and still struggle with both parents on this because I do not want to hurt people the way I have been hurted-Thanks for your honest answers....I don't think anyone is a bad person here just voicing their opinion.....Thanks!!!

trs -thanks so much for responding..I thought I had terminally pi$$ed you off...I still have those same feelings of inferiority when comparing myself with OM...I guess that it's because W still hasn't come clean about most of what happened.{{{{{{{{{{trs}}}}}}}}}}

Good Morning Heartpain and Trs,Well... I'm happy to see that we're all friends...Remember -- I understand hating the OP... and the craziness it causes...Peace to all of us.I'll be gone for a few days and maybe when I return I'll have a NEW HAP-HAP-HAPPY ATTITUDE! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

I feel like I have new friends!!! No heartpain you did not get me honked off-just caught me off guard-noticed your from the big CO state-lived in Grand Jct for 2 yrs.....anyways thanks for the insights!!!NB-you taught me alot. This thread taught me that all people still have feelings no matter what and you never know who is looking in the back door!!! Opinions are good but bitterness is a no-no....Now who would like OW's number??? Okay I 'll give out H's number-BUT he's at OW's house so you will still need her number.....{{{{{{heartpain and NB}}}}}}}}

Ah, alcohol ... nasty stuff when used in the wrong quantities among the wrong crowd. Yes, the girls all get purtier at closin' time! My understanding is that this contributed considerably to the involvement. I still haven't figured out what, besides "the fog", keeps it going.You all probably know that I'm at a very difficult point right now (H is moving to Florida with slug). I hope everyone can take my remarks and posts with that in mind and not be offended.I'm not exactly Twiggy myself (there, did that date me, or what?), and have resented people's attitudes toward me when I have perceived that they are judging me on my appearance. I have had to deal with not being one of the "beautiful people" all my life - people get angry with me when I use that phrase. What I mean by it is that I have never run with the "in" crowd - originally by their choice - now, by my own choice. My weight is something that I'd like to get control of better, for my health and personal well-being. But I have seen people like CB describes... and, if you can be generous enough, they are pretty pathetic. When they get in your face, however, it is difficult to see them as pathetic ... :

: I only wish that NONE of us had EVER had to worry about what names we call the OP - I wish that none of us had ever had to experience having an OP in our marriages at all.Thanks for letting me have the soap box a few times...------------------ terri CourageWhatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong.There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right.To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.Ralph Waldo Emerson

I have not noticed any correlation between whether the BS insults the OP and recovery rates. It certainly hasn't made any difference in my case. I have never insulted the OW to my H or to herself - I don't know that I have even made any comments about her weight here, and I have never seen her except at a great distance so I can't comment on her beauty or lack thereof. I even managed not to laugh when my preschooler referred to her as "the fat lady at Daddy's house."I agree with Terri. I did not marry the OP. I know my H was severely depressed. Maybe the OP was too, probably she has self-esteem issues - but it is not my job to worry about that. And I know for a fact that she has done just about everything she can to limit my H's contact with his children - and that is cruel. It would be bad enough if she were 19, but she is the mother of three teenagers. I will never understand how a mother could be cruel to anyone's children. I do see my H as weak. He might even agree with that assessment - after all, he told me that his first wife told him she left him for that reason. I know my H should be strong enough to tell the OW to go jump in a lake and then move out if she won't let our kids spend more than a few hours a month in her house, but I also have a certain degree of understanding of his childhood issues that led up to this whole thing. [This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 01, 2001).]

Hi Trs, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I feel like I have new friends!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You DO!!!! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>NB-you taught me alot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good... but remember... this was all based on my opinion only... you are allowed to have an opinion different from mine... that's kinda like what this whole thread is about!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Hugs back atcha!! ((((((Trs)))))Hey terri, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>:

: I only wish that NONE of us had EVER had to worry about what names we call the OP - I wish that none of us had ever had to experience having an OP in our marriages at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Amen, and amen!!!Hello there, Nellie, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Maybe the OP was too, probably she has self-esteem issues - but it is not my job to worry about that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're right, it isn't your problem but BOY, I'D SAY YOU'RE RIGHT about that one!!You're also right about the confusion/questions surrounding parents who virtually disown their children. Very sad.------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 05, 2001).]

OK, Everybody!I'm a fat lady, and I once asked CB to tone it down about the fat slut stuff. Anyway, I decided to let it roll over my back 'cuz I may be fat, but I ain't a slut... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lady Clueless: OK, Everybody!I'm a fat lady, and I once asked CB to tone it down about the fat slut stuff. Anyway, I decided to let it roll over my back 'cuz I may be fat, but I ain't a slut... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Now, lemme do a lil' bit of ventin' about MY H's OW...the last one (CW), that is...I noticed the other day that she was wearing a henley t-shirt with the buttons undone. Well, she was sitting at a table and leaned over enough that the top of her boob showed a little. Well, guess what, folks!She may be slim and trim, but she has hit the tanning bed too often and has DRIED-UP, WRINKLED PRUNES (look more like raisins, tee hee!) FOR BOOBS!!So, I may be fat, but I do have some nicely shaped, unwrinkled D's. So there, CW! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, Lady Clueless, I never want to ignore a post... but boy, I sure don't know what to say about this - LOL!! On one hand, you have just chosen another physical attribute to mock... and on the other... hmmm... no, I guess it's just the one hand... you have only chosen something that you personally don't have a problem with. Sigh.I don't know how many are still checking in on this thread - I would assume only a few, if any... so I will attempt to close with this:PEOPLE COME IN ALL COLORS, SHAPES, AND SIZES (not to mention religious affilitations, sexual preferences, and amount of honor/integrity)... people are people... in life, in church, in work, on this board... how they LOOK has little-to-no bearing on WHO THEY ARE (although if you watch Jerry Springer, you could make a case for trash being trash and you can spot it a mile away). The focus of this thread was to ask that comments like "...caused an earthquake when she walked..." be thought about and "weighed" before being uttered here, where there are people, like me, with weight problems. (Was that a run-on sentence or what? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)We all have our biases, and what we think in our head is between us and God (the Universe, Goddess, whatever you believe)... but when it is written here, it may cause hurt feelings. That's all. ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Oh, I don't think big boobs are necessarily any better looking than small ones; it really depends on one's body type and build in general as to which looks best.I was just mocking the dried and shriveled up, wrinkled aspects of CW's boobs...and CW's done that herself by over-tanning. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Bear in mind that this woman has not yet turned 51---only about a year older than I am, but her skin looks at least 65.And, to be honest, if my skin would tan, I would probably do the tanning bed thing, too. I used to try to get tanned, but barely beige w/freckles is as tan as I get. I figured why waste my time in a tanning bed? So, ladies, beware of trying to get too tan!

Dear God, this thread is still going! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

LC - Hey hon, we rarely "see" you anymore! How are things going?Okay, okay, I am a card-carrying member of the "Fake & Bake" club (come on, I live in Western Washington, where it rains 364 days out of the year!) But jeez, has Cafe Wench never heard of "moisturizer"? I guess she's not the brightest star in the galaxy...And the old look probably has a lot to do with being rode hard and put away wet one too many times!Good to see you back!

Oh for crying out LOUD, you two!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Look, ex-H's OW #2 was a glazed in the sun goddess who's skin looked about two sizes too big for her (okay, it sagged) and yeah, I was a 300 lb. blobby white dough "boy" who couldn't get a tan if I lived on the sun....Now, are you happy, CB? I insulted the OW.Thing is... and I keep coming back to it... making fun of the OW does NOTHING to make me feel ultimately better -- yeah, the immediate gratification is nice, but I still had to live through the affairs of my ex... ...and I guess, to get back to the original thing (if I can find it! jeez...) I was once an OW also... a "fat, ugly" one according to the girlfriend of the OM, who sent me scathing emails (deserved or not, they hurt and scared me). Again, I have no desire to revisit that time, which is THANKFULLY over. But my point was... ...oh crud... I can't rememeber my point now... I KEEP TRYING to get back to it...Sigh.------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

All right...I'm back seeing as how this thing is not DEAD yet!!!!OK, part of the problem in throwing insults to the OP is this stupid thing we BS's get into(and I've certainly done it) where we believe that the only reason our spouse would cheat on us is based on OP having a favorable comparison to us on the looks, build, boob and "dangly thing" aspects. You know, this is rarely true, affairs usually start because of unmet needs that only sometimes include "appearance" needs.But, we BS's have a hard time seeing that the marital problems could be anything except "appearance". We have this ingrained into us by media and, besides, it's tough to admit that our behaviors could have contributed to our problems...Anyway, a quick $0.02 worth...--DeWayne--

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Heartpain: OK, part of the problem in throwing insults to the OP is this stupid thing we BS's get into(and I've certainly done it) where we believe that the only reason our spouse would cheat on us is based on OP having a favorable comparison to us on the looks, build, boob and "dangly thing" aspects. You know, this is rarely true, affairs usually start because of unmet needs that only sometimes include "appearance" needs.But, we BS's have a hard time seeing that the marital problems could be anything except "appearance". We have this ingrained into us by media and, besides, it's tough to admit that our behaviors could have contributed to our problems... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yipes!! It's my fav fella to give great big platonic hugs to!!!Yes, you're right, of course. You found part of my point for me... I think I lost it -- along with my mind, I sometimes must admit! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Well, Sheryl, at least I accomplished one thing today. Sure haven't gotten much done at work....Platonic hugs back at 'ya...

Well, I still can't figure out what it is that is keeping my husband with the slug, as she A) is not attractive, B) smokes, C) is a slut from way back, D) is a vicious, violent, selfish creature who has ALWAYS thought first and foremost of herself, E) can't write a complete sentence or spell words of over two syllables, F) is not interested in anything outside of sex, drinking and smoking. The man that I married and knew most of the time we were together appreciated attractiveness (I'm no beauty queen, but I am better and younger looking than she is - which is kind of funny considering I am probably 5 years older than she is), hated smoking, had standards and morals - and didn't like to share his woman, abhorred people who were nasty and violent, appreciated intelligence and loved to talk about all kinds of interesting things.It is NOT unmet needs, at least not anymore. Just what it is, however, he won't tell me, so I guess I'll never ever know. Some days it makes me angry, some days it just makes me sad... but I will always know that she could have stepped out of the picture if she really gave a da*n about him, and instead, she told me that is what I should do if I really loved him - ooh... I better stop now, or I will be saying awful things about her in a minute... like talking about the fat wrinkles she has on her fat wrinkles when she wears shorts in public...Sorry, Sheryl... couldn't help myself.(btw, I probably have some serious fat wrinkles myself - but I don't force other people to look at them.)------------------ terri CourageWhatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong.There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right.To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.Ralph Waldo Emerson

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by terri: Well, I still can't figure out what it is that is keeping my husband with the slug, as she A) is not attractive, B) smokes, C) is a slut from way back, D) is a vicious, violent, selfish creature who has ALWAYS thought first and foremost of herself, E) can't write a complete sentence or spell words of over two syllables, F) is not interested in anything outside of sex, drinking and smoking. The man that I married and knew most of the time we were together appreciated attractiveness (I'm no beauty queen, but I am better and younger looking than she is - which is kind of funny considering I am probably 5 years older than she is), hated smoking, had standards and morals - and didn't like to share his woman, abhorred people who were nasty and violent, appreciated intelligence and loved to talk about all kinds of interesting things.It is NOT unmet needs, at least not anymore. Just what it is, however, he won't tell me, so I guess I'll never ever know. Some days it makes me angry, some days it just makes me sad... but I will always know that she could have stepped out of the picture if she really gave a da*n about him, and instead, she told me that is what I should do if I really loved him - ooh... I better stop now, or I will be saying awful things about her in a minute... like talking about the fat wrinkles she has on her fat wrinkles when she wears shorts in public...Sorry, Sheryl... couldn't help myself.(btw, I probably have some serious fat wrinkles myself - but I don't force other people to look at them.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi terri,Hey, have you ever considered this? Now let me try to say this right, the way I mean it... Here goes: it's the way she makes HIM feel. It's not about her meeting his needs, per se, but how she makes him feel about himself. Now, she, despite her stinky breath and/or sluggish behavior, suddenly "looks" better because of how she makes him feel. Is this possible?I just know that in my case, in my one-time stint as the OW... here's what happened......my ex-H was gorgeous, I always said that. The OM was NOT... he was the exact opposite of what I find attractive -- honestly. I won't detail him... let's just say he was the antithesis of everything I find beautiful and sexually attractive... but damn, he made me feel beautiful, desirable, and (blech, this is hard to write) loved. How is it that a virtual stranger (until that time) could reach into my being, find the broken woman, and say all the right things? I was weak, and for whatever reason, he knew what I needed to hear-- probably because EVERY 40 yr. old person (like your H perhaps) needs to hear the same stuff -- LOL, although not so funny, actually. Now, my ex told me I was beautiful too, so he (the OM) wasn't exactly fulfilling a need my then-H was not... ...so, in short, I agree with you... it's a mystery.------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by terri: ... like talking about the fat wrinkles she has on her fat wrinkles when she wears shorts in public...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>***resisting the urge to LMAO*** Oh, hell with it!HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! LOL LOL LOL! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>(btw, I probably have some serious fat wrinkles myself - but I don't force other people to look at them.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's the point that I'm trying to make - and I don't know if it's just a bar thing or what - but the outfit that the "woman" was wearing was just NASTY! I don't even think a skinny person needs to be wearing something like that. Guess that just goes to show you how much these guys drink, to think something like that looks good. [This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited April 06, 2001).]

Hi CB,Hey, I'll be the first to agree about the dressing habits of some women... and I know what you mean....When I was very heavy (tipping 300 pounds) I read this book that said that a heavy woman dressed well looks thinner than a smaller woman dressed poorly... and they described just the look you mention.I have lost 100 pounds and the skin hanging from my 40+ yr. old fat-for-10-years upper arms are enough to make me cringe... and you're right... NOBODY sees those puppies... so, yes, I'm with ya there...BUT STILL... ah... when you said "I thought it was another earthquake..." ......**I** quaked......and it hurt...ah, well... this has been an enlightening discussion, doncha think???? ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Now, come on Sheryl - this thread is going to reach 100...it's inevitable! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

That's fine, I totally respect where you're coming from. I came from a generation of "Your Mama" jokes, and I apologize if I upset you. I'll try to cool it down a little bit. At the very least, I'll forewarn in the post.Sheesh! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Oh CB,We already have an understanding, don't we?And **I** {blush, blush} used to tell... get ready, 'cause this is REALLY bad... ...Helen Keller and "baby" jokes...See, CB, I'm really old... and long before there was "PC" there was REALLY BAD JOKES ABOUT PEOPLE. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Yes, Sheryl, I definitely have thought about the way he feels when he is with her... and there is no way I can "compete" with that as long as he IS with her. She makes him feel like the most important thing in her world - but that is only because her world is so small and limited. I cannot make him feel like he is smarter than I am - I consider us equals in that area (him and I). She can always make him feel that way, because he IS smarter than she is... and he has even commented on it. So ... what could I ever do about that? Not a thing. I am who I am - and once upon a time, I was who he loved. And he still loves me - I don't doubt that for a minute.His response when I first asked him over two years ago "why" was "she's fun." I highly doubt that everything is fun anymore - and I highly doubt that he will find it fun living with her in Florida. She could lose 200 pounds and she will still be dumb, lazy and unmotivated to be anything more than what she is...Anyway, I'm rambling once again. But, I have to say this ... CB was right on the money with the Jabba the Hut remark a while ago. And I'm not ashamed of laughing about it at all. For me, right now, it is therapeutic ... and directed ONLY at the slug. Someday I may feel differently - maybe I'll even be glad she took him off my hands, who knows? But I despise her, as I've said before ... ------------------ terri CourageWhatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong.There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right.To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.Ralph Waldo Emerson

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by terri: Someday I may feel differently - maybe I'll even be glad she took him off my hands, who knows? But I despise her, as I've said before ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, I don't think you'll ever be happy to have him "taken off your hands"... and that's just my opinion.As far as your despising her...My god, OF COURSE I despise all of my ex-H's OW(s)... that was never in question... NEVER... Our (his and my) choices RUINED OUR MARRIAGE... and those women (and the man I had an affair with) are at the bottom of my pile of favorite people... Maybe now this can be put to rest... remains to be seen, I guess...------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Hey NB, Still sitting in the corner reading....but had to be #101. Just a thought......I also have a weight problem, but the opposite of yours. I get very thin when stressed. I am 5'6 and can get down to a size 3/4 which is way to thin for my frame-look sick. (am not now thank goodness!) The basis of too heavy vs too thin is the same. But people have no issue walking up to me and saying things like 'my, you are so thin', or 'have you lost weight?'. Now one would hardly walk up to a heavy person and say 'my you are so fat'! Gads, they would get decked and deservedly so! Have read comments on here abt the skinny/boney wench as well as the fat sloth! Guess we all crawl in the gutter and name call on occassion? Send me your new email. aloha

**Some**one just HAD to be number 101, I guess! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Hey Cl, Send something to the nbeginning addy and I'll send you the new one, okay?? I can still get mail there, but don't check it unless I'm looking for something... I'd love to get your daily stuffies!!! (Although I think it became weekly the last I looked!).I know what you mean about the thin thing too... when I lost weight so fast people had no prob mentioning THAT either... and when I was pregnant with number 3, perfect strangers came up and told me how I was adding to the population explosion, blah, blah, blah... you're right... as Gilda Radner said, "It's always SOMEthing"...Hugs, ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Boy, has this come back to bite me in the butt! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I went to see a wrestling promoter for the NWA, and he's interested, but I have to drop 25 pounds or there's no deal. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

It was kind of a shock to have him tell me that he wants me to lose that much. I'm 5'9" flat-foot, and I'm around 155 lbs right now (I gained 15 during my now lost pregnancy.) But they're apparently negotiating a television deal, so they want me around 130. They put me on a six-day a week intense workout regimen (not even counting my ring time), I'm allowed no sugar or starches, and I have to force myself to drink two protein shakes a day (I'm telling you, the secret ingredient in those things is nothing but good, old-fashioned CHALK!) BLECCCCCH!!!!So if I seem moody, it's because I'm sore, I'm going through sugar withdrawal, and because I have to drink those horrible chalk shakes!!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Well CB,All I can say is that if I weighed 155, and, *think, think*, I believe the last time was sometime in the early 80's, then I would be JUMPING FOR JOY... and I'm 2" shorter than you are!!!!!!!!Sorry that you have to lose, but it seems stupid to me... you sound perfect! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Good luck... dieting is SOOOOOO icky!!! ------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

Okay Carolina Belle, I'm gonna show my true colors here, but is that the "jim Crockett" NWA of old, now that vinnie has scooped up what used to be WCW, or is it a different organization??? I heard Ric Flair was working on starting one up...is that the one??? I have been a major "mark" for Flair for the past 25 years....Anyway, just wondering. I've always followed your posts, with a slightly greater than interest due to my "love" for anything having to do with the squared circle.... P.S. I definitely agree with you on the protein shake. I did those for a low-carb diet that I was on. You forgot to mention the other "secret" ingredient, they taste like their fortified with dry-wall....

NB - Thanks [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

It's unfortunate that my livelihood requires me to wear tights! LOL! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by boomer: Okay Carolina Belle, I'm gonna show my true colors here, but is that the "jim Crockett" NWA of old, now that vinnie has scooped up what used to be WCW, or is it a different organization??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes and no. From what I understand, the NWA is an alliance of different Indy organizations. I'm referring to the NWA - Pacific Northwest/ECCW (Extreme Canadian Championship Wrestling). It's the same NWA that Dan Severn has ruled on and off for the past 5 years. It's a good indy promotion.I know, I'm a card-carrying Flair Mark [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

He's the reason I got into the business - that man can work a crowd like nobody else! I'm kind of disappointed that the WWF bought out WCW, but it's WCW's own fault...they had the resources, they had the talent, they just didn't have the marketing skills that Vince has. But I digress. I hadn't heard anything about Flair starting up an indy organization. I've heard Jerry Lawler may start something up to try and compete with Vince, so who knows.

NB - This will be the last wrestling-related writing that I will tarnish your thread with! ROFL!I'm tickled - I found my old web page! And I'm talking OLD!!! Anyway, here's a link to one of the pics...this was 3 1/2 years ago, before CB discovered tanning beds and foils (jeez, I'd forgotten what my natural haircolor was! LOL) But at least when I go to a bar, I can find worthwhile company! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/6846/ljericho.jpg" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/6846/ljericho.jpg</A>

Color me nosey, I checked it out... but guess what?... it came up with this message:"We're sorry, but this page is currently unavailable for viewing."Just thought you'd like to know. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

NB - Don't you just love computers? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

It works if you actually type that URL in, but not as a link. Go fig!

Hey CB,Yeah, you're a pretty YOUNG thing!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

And you don't look like you need to lose weight either!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Love having a face to go with the words!! Take care,------------------ ~Sheryl (a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)Life is difficult. The Road Less Traveled ~M. Scott Peck

awww ... she's just a baby ... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

It IS nice to put a face to the handle. Maybe someday I'll feel comfortable enough to do that, too.------------------ terri CourageWhatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong.There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right.To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.Ralph Waldo Emerson