Good Morning Heartpain and Trs,<P>Well... I'm happy to see that we're all friends...<P>Remember -- I understand hating the OP... and the craziness it causes...<P>Peace to all of us.<P>I'll be gone for a few days and maybe when I return I'll have a NEW HAP-HAP-HAPPY ATTITUDE! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

I feel like I have new friends!!! No heartpain you did not get me honked off-just caught me off guard-noticed your from the big CO state-lived in Grand Jct for 2 yrs.....anyways thanks for the insights!!!NB-you taught me alot. This thread taught me that all people still have feelings no matter what and you never know who is looking in the back door!!! Opinions are good but bitterness is a no-no....Now who would like OW's number??? Okay I 'll give out H's number-BUT he's at OW's house so you will still need her number.....{{{{{{heartpain and NB}}}}}}}}

<P>Ah, alcohol ... nasty stuff when used in the wrong quantities among the wrong crowd. Yes, the girls all get purtier at closin' time! My understanding is that this contributed considerably to the involvement. I still haven't figured out what, besides "the fog", keeps it going.<P>You all probably know that I'm at a very difficult point right now (H is moving to Florida with slug). I hope everyone can take my remarks and posts with that in mind and not be offended.<P>I'm not exactly Twiggy myself (there, did that date me, or what?), and have resented people's attitudes toward me when I have perceived that they are judging me on my appearance. I have had to deal with not being one of the "beautiful people" all my life - people get angry with me when I use that phrase. What I mean by it is that I have never run with the "in" crowd - originally by their choice - now, by my own choice. My weight is something that I'd like to get control of better, for my health and personal well-being. But I have seen people like CB describes... and, if you can be generous enough, they are pretty pathetic. When they get in your face, however, it is difficult to see them as pathetic ... <P>:: I only wish that NONE of us had EVER had to worry about what names we call the OP - I wish that none of us had ever had to experience having an OP in our marriages at all.<P>Thanks for letting me have the soap box a few times...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I have not noticed any correlation between whether the BS insults the OP and recovery rates. It certainly hasn't made any difference in my case. <P>I have never insulted the OW to my H or to herself - I don't know that I have even made any comments about her weight here, and I have never seen her except at a great distance so I can't comment on her beauty or lack thereof. I even managed not to laugh when my preschooler referred to her as "the fat lady at Daddy's house."<P>I agree with Terri. I did not marry the OP. I know my H was severely depressed. Maybe the OP was too, probably she has self-esteem issues - but it is not my job to worry about that. And I know for a fact that she has done just about everything she can to limit my H's contact with his children - and that is cruel. It would be bad enough if she were 19, but she is the mother of three teenagers. I will never understand how a mother could be cruel to anyone's children. <P>I do see my H as weak. He might even agree with that assessment - after all, he told me that his first wife told him she left him for that reason. I know my H should be strong enough to tell the OW to go jump in a lake and then move out if she won't let our kids spend more than a few hours a month in her house, but I also have a certain degree of understanding of his childhood issues that led up to this whole thing. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 01, 2001).]

Hi <B>Trs</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel like I have new friends!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You DO!!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>NB-you taught me alot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good... but remember... this was all based on my opinion only... you are allowed to have an opinion different from mine... that's kinda like what this whole thread is about!! <P>Hugs back atcha!! ((((((Trs)))))<P>Hey <B>terri</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>:: I only wish that NONE of us had EVER had to worry about what names we call the OP - I wish that none of us had ever had to experience having an OP in our marriages<BR>at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Amen, and amen!!!<P>Hello there, <B>Nellie</B>,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Maybe the OP was too, probably she has self-esteem issues - but it is not my job to worry about that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're right, it isn't your problem but BOY, I'D SAY YOU'RE <B>RIGHT</B> about that one!!<P>You're also right about the confusion/questions surrounding parents who virtually disown their children. Very sad.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 05, 2001).]

OK, Everybody!<P>I'm a fat lady, and I once asked CB to tone it down about the fat slut stuff. Anyway, I decided to let it roll over my back 'cuz I may be fat, but I ain't a slut... <P>Now, lemme do a lil' bit of ventin' about MY H's OW...the last one (CW), that is...<P>I noticed the other day that she was wearing a henley t-shirt with the buttons undone. Well, she was sitting at a table and leaned over enough that the top of her boob showed a little. Well, guess what, folks!<P>She may be slim and trim, but she has hit the tanning bed too often and has DRIED-UP, WRINKLED PRUNES (look more like raisins, tee hee!) FOR BOOBS!!<P>So, I may be fat, but I do have some nicely shaped, unwrinkled D's. So there, CW!<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lady Clueless:<BR><B>OK, Everybody!<P>I'm a fat lady, and I once asked CB to tone it down about the fat slut stuff. Anyway, I decided to let it roll over my back 'cuz I may be fat, but I ain't a slut... <P>Now, lemme do a lil' bit of ventin' about MY H's OW...the last one (CW), that is...<P>I noticed the other day that she was wearing a henley t-shirt with the buttons undone. Well, she was sitting at a table and leaned over enough that the top of her boob showed a little. Well, guess what, folks!<P>She may be slim and trim, but she has hit the tanning bed too often and has DRIED-UP, WRINKLED PRUNES (look more like raisins, tee hee!) FOR BOOBS!!<P>So, I may be fat, but I do have some nicely shaped, unwrinkled D's. So there, CW!<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, Lady Clueless, I never want to ignore a post... but boy, I sure don't know what to say about this - LOL!! <P>On one hand, you have just chosen another physical attribute to mock... and on the other... hmmm... no, I guess it's just the one hand... you have only chosen something that you personally don't have a problem with. <P>Sigh.<P>I don't know how many are still checking in on this thread - I would assume only a few, if any... so I will attempt to close with this:<P>PEOPLE COME IN ALL COLORS, SHAPES, AND SIZES (not to mention religious affilitations, sexual preferences, and amount of honor/integrity)... people are people... in life, in church, in work, on this board... how they LOOK has little-to-no bearing on WHO THEY ARE (although if you watch Jerry Springer, you could make a case for trash being trash and you can spot it a mile away). <P>The focus of this thread was to ask that comments like "...caused an earthquake when she walked..." be thought about and "weighed" before being uttered here, where there are people, like me, with weight problems. (Was that a run-on sentence or what? )<P>We all have our biases, and what we think in our head is between us and God (the Universe, Goddess, whatever you believe)... but when it is written here, it may cause hurt feelings. That's all. <BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Oh, I don't think big boobs are necessarily any better looking than small ones; it really depends on one's body type and build in general as to which looks best.<P>I was just mocking the dried and shriveled up, wrinkled aspects of CW's boobs...and CW's done that herself by over-tanning. Bear in mind that this woman has not yet turned 51---only about a year older than I am, but her skin looks at least 65.<P>And, to be honest, if my skin would tan, I would probably do the tanning bed thing, too. I used to try to get tanned, but barely beige w/freckles is as tan as I get. I figured why waste my time in a tanning bed? So, ladies, beware of trying to get too tan!

Dear God, this thread is still going! <P>LC - Hey hon, we rarely "see" you anymore! How are things going?<P>Okay, okay, I am a card-carrying member of the "Fake & Bake" club (come on, I live in Western Washington, where it rains 364 days out of the year!) But jeez, has Cafe Wench never heard of "moisturizer"? I guess she's not the brightest star in the galaxy...And the old look probably has a lot to do with being rode hard and put away wet one too many times!<P>Good to see you back!

Oh for crying out LOUD, you two!! <P>Look, ex-H's OW #2 was a glazed in the sun goddess who's skin looked about two sizes too big for her (okay, it sagged) and yeah, I was a 300 lb. blobby white dough "boy" who couldn't get a tan if I lived on the sun....<P>Now, are you happy, CB? I insulted the OW.<P>Thing is... and I keep coming back to it... making fun of the OW does NOTHING to make me feel ultimately better -- yeah, the immediate gratification is nice, but I still had to live through the affairs of my ex... <P>...and I guess, to get back to the original thing (if I can find it! jeez...) I was once an OW also... a "fat, ugly" one according to the girlfriend of the OM, who sent me scathing emails (deserved or not, they hurt and scared me). Again, I have no desire to revisit that time, which is THANKFULLY over. But my point was... <P>...oh crud... I can't rememeber my point now... I KEEP TRYING to get back to it...<P>Sigh.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

All right...I'm back seeing as how this thing is not DEAD yet!!!!<P>OK, part of the problem in throwing insults to the OP is this stupid thing we BS's get into(and I've certainly done it) where we believe that the only reason our spouse would cheat on us is based on OP having a favorable comparison to us on the looks, build, boob and "dangly thing" aspects. You know, this is rarely true, affairs usually start because of unmet needs that only sometimes include "appearance" needs.<P>But, we BS's have a hard time seeing that the marital problems could be anything except "appearance". We have this ingrained into us by media and, besides, it's tough to admit that our behaviors could have contributed to our problems...<P>Anyway, a quick $0.02 worth...<P>--DeWayne--

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heartpain:<BR><B>OK, part of the problem in throwing insults to the OP is this stupid thing we BS's get into(and I've certainly done it) where we believe that the only reason our spouse would cheat on us is based on OP having a favorable comparison to us on the looks, build, boob and "dangly thing" aspects. You know, this is rarely true, affairs usually start because of unmet needs that only sometimes include "appearance" needs.<P>But, we BS's have a hard time seeing that the marital problems could be anything except "appearance". We have this ingrained into us by media and, besides, it's tough to admit that our behaviors could have contributed to our problems...<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yipes!! It's my fav fella to give great big platonic hugs to!!!<P>Yes, you're right, of course. You found part of my point for me... I think I lost it -- along with my mind, I sometimes must admit! <P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Well, <B>Sheryl</B>, at least I accomplished one thing today. Sure haven't gotten much done at work....<P>Platonic hugs back at 'ya...

Well, I still can't figure out what it is that is keeping my husband with the slug, as she A) is not attractive, B) smokes, C) is a slut from way back, D) is a vicious, violent, selfish creature who has ALWAYS thought first and foremost of herself, E) can't write a complete sentence or spell words of over two syllables, F) is not interested in anything outside of sex, drinking and smoking. The man that I married and knew most of the time we were together appreciated attractiveness (I'm no beauty queen, but I am better and younger looking than she is - which is kind of funny considering I am probably 5 years older than she is), hated smoking, had standards and morals - and didn't like to share his woman, abhorred people who were nasty and violent, appreciated intelligence and loved to talk about all kinds of interesting things.<P>It is NOT unmet needs, at least not anymore. Just what it is, however, he won't tell me, so I guess I'll never ever know. Some days it makes me angry, some days it just makes me sad... but I will always know that she could have stepped out of the picture if she really gave a da*n about him, and instead, she told me that is what I should do if I really loved him - ooh... I better stop now, or I will be saying awful things about her in a minute... like talking about the fat wrinkles she has on her fat wrinkles when she wears shorts in public...<P>Sorry, Sheryl... couldn't help myself.<P>(btw, I probably have some serious fat wrinkles myself - but I don't force other people to look at them.)<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by terri:<BR><B>Well, I still can't figure out what it is that is keeping my husband with the slug, as she A) is not attractive, B) smokes, C) is a slut from way back, D) is a vicious, violent, selfish creature who has ALWAYS thought first and foremost of herself, E) can't write a complete sentence or spell words of over two syllables, F) is not interested in anything outside of sex, drinking and smoking. The man that I married and knew most of the time we were together appreciated attractiveness (I'm no beauty queen, but I am better and younger looking than she is - which is kind of funny considering I am probably 5 years older than she is), hated smoking, had standards and morals - and didn't like to share his woman, abhorred people who were nasty and violent, appreciated intelligence and loved to talk about all kinds of interesting things.<P>It is NOT unmet needs, at least not anymore. Just what it is, however, he won't tell me, so I guess I'll never ever know. Some days it makes me angry, some days it just makes me sad... but I will always know that she could have stepped out of the picture if she really gave a da*n about him, and instead, she told me that is what I should do if I really loved him - ooh... I better stop now, or I will be saying awful things about her in a minute... like talking about the fat wrinkles she has on her fat wrinkles when she wears shorts in public...<P>Sorry, Sheryl... couldn't help myself.<P>(btw, I probably have some serious fat wrinkles myself - but I don't force other people to look at them.)<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi terri,<P>Hey, have you ever considered this? Now let me try to say this right, the way I mean it... <P>Here goes: it's the way she makes HIM feel. It's not about her meeting his needs, per se, but how she makes him feel about himself. Now, she, despite her stinky breath and/or sluggish behavior, suddenly "looks" better because of how she makes him feel. <P>Is this possible?<P>I just know that in my case, in my one-time stint as the OW... here's what happened...<P>...my ex-H was gorgeous, I always said that. The OM was NOT... he was the exact opposite of what I find attractive -- honestly. I won't detail him... let's just say he was the antithesis of everything I find beautiful and sexually attractive... but damn, he made me feel beautiful, desirable, and (blech, this is hard to write) loved. How is it that a virtual stranger (until that time) could reach into my being, find the broken woman, and say all the right things? I was weak, and for whatever reason, he knew what I needed to hear-- probably because EVERY 40 yr. old person (like your H perhaps) needs to hear the same stuff -- LOL, although not so funny, actually. Now, my ex told me I was beautiful too, so he (the OM) wasn't exactly fulfilling a need my then-H was not... <P>...so, in short, I agree with you... it's a mystery.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by terri:<BR><B>... like talking about the fat wrinkles she has on her fat wrinkles when she wears shorts in public...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>***resisting the urge to LMAO*** Oh, hell with it!<P>HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! LOL LOL LOL!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>(btw, I probably have some serious fat wrinkles myself - but I don't force other people to look at them.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's the point that I'm trying to make - and I don't know if it's just a bar thing or what - but the outfit that the "woman" was wearing was just NASTY! I don't even think a skinny person needs to be wearing something like that. <P>Guess that just goes to show you how much these guys drink, to think something like <I>that</I> looks good. <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited April 06, 2001).]

Hi CB,<P>Hey, I'll be the first to agree about the dressing habits of some women... and I know what you mean....<P>When I was very heavy (tipping 300 pounds) I read this book that said that a heavy woman dressed well looks thinner than a smaller woman dressed poorly... and they described just the look you mention.<P>I have lost 100 pounds and the skin hanging from my 40+ yr. old fat-for-10-years upper arms are enough to make me cringe... and you're right... NOBODY sees those puppies... so, yes, I'm with ya there...<P>BUT STILL... ah... when you said "I thought it was another earthquake..." ...<P>...**I** quaked...<P>...and it hurt...<P>ah, well... this has been an enlightening discussion, doncha think???? <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Now, come on Sheryl - this thread is going to reach 100...it's inevitable! <P>That's fine, I totally respect where you're coming from. I came from a generation of "Your Mama" jokes, and I apologize if I upset you. I'll try to cool it down <I>a little bit</I>. At the very least, I'll forewarn in the post.<P>Sheesh! <P>

Oh CB,<P>We already have an understanding, don't we?<P>And **I** {blush, blush} used to tell... get ready, 'cause this is REALLY bad... <P>...Helen Keller and "baby" jokes...<P>See, CB, I'm really old... and long before there was "PC" there was REALLY BAD JOKES ABOUT PEOPLE.<P> <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Yes, Sheryl, I definitely have thought about the way he feels when he is with her... and there is no way I can "compete" with that as long as he IS with her. She makes him feel like the most important thing in her world - but that is only because her world is so small and limited. I cannot make him feel like he is smarter than I am - I consider us equals in that area (him and I). She can always make him feel that way, because he IS smarter than she is... and he has even commented on it. So ... what could I ever do about that? Not a thing. I am who I am - and once upon a time, I was who he loved. And he still loves me - I don't doubt that for a minute.<P>His response when I first asked him over two years ago "why" was "she's fun." I highly doubt that everything is fun anymore - and I highly doubt that he will find it fun living with her in Florida. She could lose 200 pounds and she will still be dumb, lazy and unmotivated to be anything more than what she is...<P>Anyway, I'm rambling once again. But, I have to say this ... CB was right on the money with the Jabba the Hut remark a while ago. And I'm not ashamed of laughing about it at all. For me, right now, it is therapeutic ... and directed ONLY at the slug. Someday I may feel differently - maybe I'll even be glad she took him off my hands, who knows? But I despise her, as I've said before ...<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>