Hello, <BR>I found this board few months ago, during my H's full blown EA/PA and have to admit it helped me a lot to read posts. I never posted myself, just reading, learning, thinking a lot. <P>I will not now speak of H's affairs (there were two of them, last one PA, too), but about my A. There are so many things that confuse me. Although I never posted before, I feel among friends here, free to speak. Please, don't nail me for what I'm going to say. <P>My A grew from a 6 year long friendship. We're both 36, both married with 2 kids (all daughters), used to work together till few months ago - he was executive director of a company where I was head of division. Old story, I guess, but there is a lot of similarities between us: we're both engineers (me electrical, him civil), both with MBA and PhD, both business executives. <BR>Let me tell this straight: it is still ongoing affair, after 2 years of what I believe was EA, 6 months ago it became PA. We're in contact daily, but intimacy happened only 2 times, far away from our town, on business trips out of country (we still have two joint projects).<P>I read here a lot of WS being in fog, confused, "in love with OP", wanting to leave their families to be with OP. I know that, been there with my H (2 As EA/PA), but I don't feel that way. And I (still) don't feel guilt that rips me inside. Maybe because one is clear for both of us, and we firmly stand to that position - we both love our spouses, no single idea of leaving families, we're not "deepely in love" with each other. But, yes, I do care for him very much, and he cares for me. <P>I can't explain that feeling. I am in recovery from my H's last affair, but not receiving what I want - mostly because he didn't stop being in contact with her, and refuses to. So I withdrew. But that's not reason for my A. It started not when I was needy, but when regained self esteem and was fully aware what I was about to do. And it was mutual. None of us could ever take advantage of each other's bad moments. <P>I know very well how it started, what triggered my attraction to him, what I found in him and not in my H. I also know what attracted him to me, but what I don't understand, he also says is confused about that is that he never had problems in his marriage. <P>We still do a lot of those friend things - celebrated my PhD degree and mourned his sister's death together. Share job experiences and help each out if needed to finalise projects. He is always here for me, and I am for him. But, I want nothing from him - I'm not jealous on his W, nor is he on my H, I could honestly say we talk about both our spouses with love, also about children. He helps me understand my H's actions, gives me advices, and many times when I was at the end of a rope for my H's affair (he moved out for 9 months)OM was calming me down and telling me to endure a bit more. He was encouraging me not to let go my PhD when I was out of my mind, helped me to finish my thesis, reading and commenting my papers. <P>I would and I do the same thing for him - talk with him when he's down and jumpy because of failed project, I told him many times not to go home so jumpy and withdraw from kids because he needs peace. I share his joy for his W's new job, and new car they bought, I'm happy for his climbing career and enjoy seeing him happy for gold medal his D won on swimming competition. <P>I never call him at home or at cell phone while he's at home (weekends, afternoons...), nor he does call me, we don't email each other at free time, we don't contact each other during vacation time. We live our normal family lives, both can survive being apart and nothing happens, although there is not a single day we don't think of each other, maybe just for a moment. <P>I know this is all weird, and it confuses me a great deal - I can honestly tell I love my H, and even when I'm truly unhappy, have triggers, think about OW ... I never lost my love for him. But yes, after 2 affairs, I don't love him the way I used to. I gave, and I'm still giving a lot into my marriage, I want to work it out, but I'm receiving too less to compensate losses in my Love Bank, no matter how hard I try to show him, explain him what I need and why I feel the way I feel. <P>From that point, it might be I found my ENs fulfilled with OM, but what about OM? Why is he here? He said I don't know, I never had any problem in my marriage, I enjoyed every moment, I still do, and that's why this between us confuses me. But, I like spending time with you, I honour you and care for you. And I trust you. I'm happy to see you better, satisfied, optimistic. I knew there must be something more under that cold blooded business woman mask - now I know there is much, much, more. Why the h*ll that H of yours doesn't see it? <P>I feel the same way about him. I was absolutely fascinated with him at work - his competences, way he managed stressy situations, many other things, but most of all I wanted to see what's behind - the human him. Now I know, and I'm still fascinated, maybe even more. <P>I know this is wrong to his W, my H, our kids. I know, if this ever jeopardise his marriage I would run away as fast as I can - not because I don't want to take my part of guilt, but because I care for him enough that I don't want anything to ruin his life. I know he feels the same about me. <P>Then why are we doing all this? Can someone please tell me what is this? Why I don't feel I'm doing something wrong, althoug I know this is wrong, why we don't want to stop it? <BR>How can I spend few hours with OM, chatting everything and nothing, then come home and feel perfectly OK, even happy that I'm home and enjoy time with my H? <P>I'm all confused. <P>Please, is there anyone out there with such experience? <P>Thank you for reading this. <P>Anne<P><BR> <P>

Anne:<P>There are lots of people with these experiences. You and your OM are meeting each other's emotional needs---it's pretty simple. It doesn't mean that you have to hate his wife, be jealous of his time with her, or anything else. But you are having an affair to have your needs met.<P>Why don't you want to stop it? Because it feels good. It's become a pattern---an addiction. Harley likens affairs to addictions, and you would be a classic case. You're highly educated, smart, empathetic---and you're doing something incredibly selfish, cruel, and stupid (I have been known to be blunt... )<P>So, it's very common. Nothing unique or special. And your ending is unlikely to be unique or special either---you're heading for disaster.<P>Do you want help?

Dear Snowflake,<P>Hello and Welcome to Marriage Builders!<P>First, I would like to share two links with you. Just click on the underlined links here, and read –><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi10_tour.html" TARGET=_blank>Tour of Marriage Builders</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome</A>. <P>Please read everything you can on this site, post and read often!! <P>I have been betrayed and betrayer, so I have the dubious honor of knowing what infidelity does from BOTH SIDES of the situation. **Just like you** I came here at the betrayer, and got help for me first, and then began to discuss my then-H's infidelity. You've come to the right place!!<P>I believe in the concepts espoused here, if applied properly.<P>Use what you learn here to make your marriage a safe place where you do your best to meet the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> of your spouse,and avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A> whenever possible. . When a decision must be made, use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>POJA</A> to determine the final outcome that you can both agree upon.<P>Again, welcome to our community, and feel free to write often and ask lots of questions!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

As a WS myself I've been where you are. I think deep down you know that you'll eventually get caught. If that doesn't happen for awhile, believe me, you'll fall in love with this man. I started out just like you as far as working together, friends, sharing info about our families. We never bad mouthed our spouses either and I wasn't jealous of his wife. It can't and won't stay that way. When you spend that much time meeting each others needs you can't help but fall in love with each other and then what? Now comes the time where your affair is discovered by one of your spouses. Many things can happen at this point. Both of your spouses could be forgiving and the two of you would end your affair, forget about ea. other and live happy ever after in your marriages. Being where you are myself, I find that highly unlikely to happen. What if he stays with his wife and your husband tosses you out? How would you feel loosing both your lover and your husband, maybe even your children? Or, his wife tosses him out, you stay in your marriage and watch him loose his entire family. Could you live with that guilt? I don't think your being honest with yourself either. I think you already love this man but will not admit it because you fear his love that he has for his wife is stronger. If he's still with her.....it is. I know ending it is easy for people to tell you compared to actually being able to do it. Remember, I've been there. But, if you are being completely honest and you still love your husband you really have to stop this affair. It will eventually bleed your marriage and your life dry. Believe it or not, it is affecting your marriage right now. Can you honestly say that you can have a wonderful day with this man and feel good about making love to your husband at night? Can you work on meeting your husbands needs when your thinking about this other man? Has your husband turned into more of a parenting partner, brotherly type instead of a best friend/lover? I would bet he has. Breaking it off now will be extremely painful but letting the love get deeper and then having it end will almost kill you. Read these boards, get help and decide what your going to do.

Thank you all for welcome and your words. <P>I'll try to answer as honest as I can. <P>Yes, I am well aware this A is all about unmet EN, mostly for me, probably for OM, although I haven't figured yet what is he missing in his life. For me, EA with OM was a kind of life saver - helped me to pick up peaces of my life, regain strenght to carry on and realise that I'm going to be OK, regardless of what happens. And most of all, I learned to do things only for me, for once my world was not turning around my H. <P>Of course it feels good when someone cares enough to ask how are you, every day, never miss to notice your new hairstyle, or just a slight change, encourages you to put yourself together and don't let your life going out of your control. After long time someone cared for me, someone bothered to search deeper in me and discover real me. <P>Odd enough, but when I turned back to gym again, I enjoyed thinking about OM's reaction, he always complimented my looking, but deep in my heart I wanted my H to finally notice I lost 40 pounds, I fit into 8 now, and look better then ever. When I bought new lingerie, clearly with OM in my mind, I wanted my H to notice. I wanted him once to say something more than just - it's OK... What hurts the most is that all those things he never bothered to notice at me he felt irresistable with OW. <P>I was putting all me in front of my H's nose, I was open to talk, invited him to participate in every single segment of my life, I was always there for him, enjoyed sharing everything with him. But, while he mostly was not interested to particiapte in my activites, while he was not willing to share with me if felt somethin's wrong, he was looking for the very same things at OW's and comlained to her he was not getting it at home! After two A, after few years of constant trying to meet all his needs and getting less and less I just got tired. <P>BonnieSept, <BR>do I already love OM? I guess I do, but definitely not the way one loves a person that wants to share life with. I'm not afraid to admit to my feelings for him because I fear he loves his W more. I never wanted his heart, it should belong to his W and children. For me, he is just a dear creature, who makes me smile, who thought me to think positive about myself, who gave me a little peace of himself which I treasure. If I gave him the same, I'm happy. <P>Well, why it turned to PA then? Tension was so high, that I knew it was going to happen sooner or later. Terribly wrong, I know, we both could resist, and have been resisting for years, and then in cold heads decided we both want it. It was fascination with each other, curiosity, passion, attraction. But why it happened once again, neither of us is able to answer. I think it just felt good at the moment. <P>Can I honestly say I can feel good making love to my H after a day spent with OM? Actually I can. But only if my H is really into it. If I feel loved, wanted, not just being object, than talk with OM actually helps me to open a bit more to my H and show him I still want us to work. It's all common story, but with knowing H still has OW in the wings and is not willing to give her up, with all pictures of them in fully blown PA I have in my head, I desperately need him to show me he is with me with all his heart and mind. Then I have no problem making love to him. <P>I am trying, I am giving, I'm willing not to ask and judge, but now I need to know there is no one else that is more important to him but me. And I'm still not getting it. <P>Not looking for excuses, but I believe A will die natural death once/if I get more commitment from my H. But, it is only me to blame fo what I've done. It was my conscious decision. Terribly wrong, but mine. <P>And yes, I am looking for help. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. <P>Anne

Hi Snowflake:<P>One part of your post struck me so close to home.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B>Yes, I am well aware this A is all about unmet EN, mostly for me, probably for OM, although I haven't figured yet what is he missing in his life. For me, EA with OM was a kind of life saver - helped me to pick up peaces of my life, regain strenght to carry on and realise that I'm going to be OK, regardless of what happens. And most of all, I learned to do things only for me, for once my world was not turning around my H. <P>Of course it feels good when someone cares enough to ask how are you, every day, never miss to notice your new hairstyle, or just a slight change, encourages you to put yourself together and don't let your life going out of your control. After long time someone cared for me, someone bothered to search deeper in me and discover real me. <P>Odd enough, but when I turned back to gym again, I enjoyed thinking about OM's reaction, he always complimented my looking, but deep in my heart I wanted my H to finally notice I lost 40 pounds, I fit into 8 now, and look better then ever. When I bought new lingerie, clearly with OM in my mind, I wanted my H to notice. I wanted him once to say something more than just - it's OK... What hurts the most is that all those things he never bothered to notice at me he felt irresistable with OW. <P>I was putting all me in front of my H's nose, I was open to talk, invited him to participate in every single segment of my life, I was always there for him, enjoyed sharing everything with him. But, while he mostly was not interested to particiapte in my activites, while he was not willing to share with me if felt somethin's wrong, he was looking for the very same things at OW's and comlained to her he was not getting it at home! After two A, after few years of constant trying to meet all his needs and getting less and less I just got tired. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> </B><P>Oh, yes I understand it well...you love your husband but you grew tired of being second in his life...so you found someone who makes you feel first-rate again...gives you what your H is not..attention...conversation...everything you would like to get from your H...but can't. How natural to turn to someone who is a good friend for help...it's just got carried too far. You don't love this person...you love your H but that love is not being returned...and you are coping by filling in the gaps with your "good" friend.<P>Unfortunately you are overlooking the fact that you are taking something from this man as well...the time and attention he is showing to you is probably being stolen from his wife [just as the OW robs you of your H's time and attention] ...although he professes not to be unhappy...and doesn't know why he is doing this...he knows.<BR>And the wife probably feels the loss but doesn't understand what's wrong. We always think what we are doing is different but it isn't...An affair is an affair and someone always gets hurt in the end.<P>I understand because I'm living your life too. No, there's no OP but there could be if I let it happen...but the WH has been involved with same OW on and off for 5 years...and she pops in and out of our lives whenever...and each time it's like I don't exist for a while in the light of her presence...all activities evolve around what's happening to her...I'm just kinda there until she rolls away again...oh, she's not the love of his life...I know that...it's not about love... I am the one he always will come home to...eventually...but she's the love of his life for the five minutes she's here. Can you imagine what a longing that sets up in someone to once again be the center of someone's life. Now after being separated for almost a year, WH is beginning to come out of the fog and realize how close he is to losing everything..and suddenly OW doesn't seem near as important. But I can certainly imagine how at any time you could have given in and succombed to the temptation to feel special again.<P>Advise, I don't have any...except to say that no woman who has been through this would ever want another woman to have to experience it. Enough said.<P>Faye<P><BR> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited May 19, 2001).]