HumbleFish- Ya know, It's getting to be a tough thing to come and support you here. As you can see, you are getting under a lot of people's skin. I truly feel for you. For whatever reason, <B>I sympathize with you totally</B>, though I do not support your <B>choices</B> necessarily. I have been in your shoes, and I have to admit that had my OW and I lived closer to one another, your story would be mine. If what you desire is to end your relationship with this man, for whatever reason...it is <B>YOU</B> who must act. <B>YOU</B> are the one who will be responsible for your fate on this one darlin'. We do not always make the choices that we wish we would have, and some of our choices we will regret for eternity, but choices are just that, choices. If yours is to stop this relationship, than <B>YOU</B> must do it. If your choice is to continue this relationship, than <B>YOU</B> must come to the understanding that broadcasting that choice in this forum is just like a cruel kind of torture to the posters here. Most everyone here has at least some understanding of your present state of mind, from one side or another. Please, decide where <B>YOU</B> want to be, and make that decision stick, and deal with the consequences. Good or bad, it's up to <B>YOU</B>. <B>YOU! <BR>Support always, Arik</B><P><B>NOW, to the rest of the posters here.</B> Guys, frankly I am kind of saddened to see your responses to this post. I understand fully, your feelings, and your reactions to the harsh memories that this must bring up. Yes, you have all for the most part been big supporters of HF, to the "enth" degree, but you all know, as well as I do, that had this been me, or Firestorm, or Deut, or Seenthelight, or [H], or anyone of the other very long term posters here, you would have shared your displeasure, told us how pi$$ed you were at our falling, then you would have told us to go on, that tomorrow would be a new day, and that you are here to support us. I love you guys for that, you all must know this by now. Because she is not married, because she is an OW, does not make HumbleFish an alien to us. How is it that because of some pain that is brought up, we turn and say "go away, it's just too much to take"? Yes, we want to build marriages, yes we want this MM in her life to be able to fix his...but does that give us the free reign to "stone" this friend? Nope, don't think so. C'mon guys, on this one I am ready to go to battle. We are not people that turn on one another...don't start with this one. <P><B>Being a Dissappointed Arik</B> <P><BR> <p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited June 29, 2001).]

HumbleFish -<BR>I have never written to you before - but I hope you read my 2 cents.<P>You said "I feel like crap", and yes you should. Because you know it is wrong, and you know you should not be doing it. Yes, I am a BW, just like the one you are hurting.<P>Find your own man who will love you for your self. How is the euphoria worth all that you are doing to yourself - you are tearing yourself down. You need to "no contact", and get away from him. Go through your withdrawal, depression, with a therapist.<P>And yes, I agree with everyone else. Leave us be to suffer in our created worlds. If you want help from us, stay away from wrong.<P>Sorry to be so harsh - some would not say it - but you make me mad.

HF:<P>Well, flamed again, huh...are you are a glutton for punishment or is this just a game to you?... <P>I understand this from your point of view...I really think you picture yourself in love with this man...my question is how reciprocal that love is on MM's side...you have told him that you want to end it...why can't he respect that decision...Is it because he is so madly in love with you?...well, I'll bet even you don't really believe that...I think you know where this man is coming from and you are trying to fool yourself into believing that there is some possibility that in the end this will work out...so you give in and let him in again. <P>I think it is human nature to think that we are that special person that everyone would give up his life for...but it usually doesn't happen...and he's proven to you that he is not willing to do that...all he is willing to do is be there when he has needs. <P>Aren't you worth more then this? Where is your self-respect? Don't let this man continue to use you...because in the end he will discard you and move on...if he needs to. Don't wait until he makes the decision...you have the power to end this now...there's no future in this...tell yourself that and do what has to be done.<P>Forget about MB, WS, BS...we all have our crosses to carry...and pain to bare...but we will come out of this with our self-respect intact....WIll YOU?????<P>Faye

Being a better Arik,<P>I agree with you totally. However I guess I am just having trouble with something here. Many of us have spent a lot of time and energy supporting HumbleFish. We have certainly caught some flack from people here for doing so but I believe it is important to support all parties in this terrible triangle. I have learned a lot from HumbleFish’s challenges. They have made me think deeply. She does seem to have a habit of flaming everyone and biting the hand of her support. The problem I have now is that her post was not really remorse full, it seems to be an in your face, “look what I did”, type of post. I guess I do not buy the sprinkling of remorse I see there. Actually I see no remorse only some expression of pain. And I do not believe that the pain expressed is based in guilt or remorse. <P>Over time, I am coming to the conclusion that this site is an entertainment for HumbleFish. That she is playing us to her amusement. I could be wrong. <P>I honestly believe that all of my efforts and those of the other supporters here have done little good. Have you ever dealt with a person with a drug problem? It feels that same way. It feels like enabling. I for one cannot go down that road. It is too painful for me. It’s a bottomless bit that I personally cannot deal with.<P>I am sure that each of the people here who have said that they cannot be supportive of her have a personal pain that made them arrive at that decision. Perhaps there are others on this board, like yourself who feel strong enough to help HumbleFish. But I do not. I am dealing with too much in my life between recovering from my husband’s affairs, raising children whose lives have been torn apart by their parents’ affairs. (SeenTheLights’ XW left him and his children for her OM. My XH left me so he can have his women.) I only have so much to give.<P>Perhaps my reaction to this HumbleFish’s post is a little strong but it is my honest reaction to the tone and content of her post. <P>So I will leave support of HumbleFish to those who have the energy to offer it.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Humble fish,<BR>If you want sympathy it's in the dictionare between sh*t and syffalous (sp?)...get off the pity-pot and start taking responsibility for your own actions and not blaming other people for you being a WEAK person. <BR>And if you have a drinking problem look in your local phone book under AA...right in the front pages.<BR>Bye.<BR>W.I.T.W.

HF, I don’t want to be hurtful here but I’m confused. You say that you have the real thing with your MM. But from reading all your posts tonight, it looks like the pattern is that he drops by unannounced, has sex with you and leaves. To me it looks like he’s using you for sex. How often does he take you out and treat you like a proper lady? That’s not love honey. He primed you at the beginning of your affair and now that he’s paid his dues he feels he has the right to your body any time he wants it. He is using you and you are having trouble admitting it to yourself. Find your self-respect and pride and dump the guy.<P>[This message has been edited by MyLife (edited June 30, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by MyLife (edited June 30, 2001).]

Some may call it being flamed, I call it hearing the truth. Isn't that what she is coming here for?? Don't some of you WS wish someone had slapped some sense into you before the damage you were doing escalated? I don't see how hearing the truth can be getting flamed. Would you lie to your best friend and tell her everything is going to be OK. So you continue to make the same mistake over and over and over but sweetie it is all OK. Tomorrow is a new day and the past is behind you. The problem is that the past will always be there. The past can drag you down into the gutter or you can take the past and learn and grow and BE. Be a beautiful person from the inside out. HF you have been given tremendous support here, and that support is available to you by wonderful giving people. What do you think is an important aspect in communicating with others? I believe the key element to communication is the ability to view the situation from the perspective of the other person. As you read each of these posts try to keep in mind the perspective of the person who wrote it.<P>HF - It is a brand new day. The first day of the rest of your life. Make the most of it. I have a feeling you may end up depressed after having sex with your MM. If you are depressed, then that is really a good thing. Believe it or not, you are supposed to feel bad after having sex with a MM. Maybe you crave intimacy with another person. We all do. That is human nature and we must embrace that need. I urge you to find another way to achieve that sense of intimacy. It is a terrible feeling to be alone. Go outside today and take a long walk, look out at God's creation and allow yourself to feel the security in that. We can support you, but only you have what it takes to do the right thing. Instead of asking why would a MM keep calling ask why am I answering. What am I getting out of this? How is this benefiting me? What can I do to fulfill this need that I am seeking in a way that won't hurt others? <BR>Everyone on this board knows that it is not good for you to be in this relationship. So if we have been harsh please realize that our objective is YOU. We all have seen the bitter reality of life and I believe almost all of us want the best for people in life whoever they are. When you have been to the bottom and clawed your way back to the top, you start to get grey hair! With every grey hair comes wisdom. <BR>So HF, what are you going to do with all the 'wisdom' you've received from this board? <BR>Imagine yourself as a little old lady sitting on your porch rocking the day away. How will you remember this affair? what would you want to be the defining moments of your life? What do you want your children and your grandchildren to know about you? Start building a new you NOW. It is never too late.

BrokenDreamsX:<P>What do you think she uses the alcohol for?<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

Humblefish,<P>Aren't you getting tired of being used for sex? ...because that's all it is.<P>Have more respect for yourself and do the right thing!

HF,<BR>I am glad you post here, because it helps me to try to understand how A's affect all parties. I can see it hurts all who are involved.<P>I have to put in 2 cents... Please end it. MM doesn't have the guts to get off the fence. Do the right thing and push him to the right side. He needs to wake up and go home to his loyal W. Help him wake up.<P>My question to you is how can you keep doing this to a sister? There's a wife that has put in years to her marriage, and wants to make it work. Ifeel like you must think something is wrong with her to have caused her H to seek an A. Of course, she's not perfect, but neither would you be as a W. When you get married, come back and see us in a few years and tell us how easy/hard it is to keep things "wonderful" for your H. I pray that your H will be faithful to you, and that you will never feel the pain as a BS.<P>Thank you for letting me vent a little.

Hi<P>Dare I show myself in here? - I went out of town for a couple of days (guess I was trying to hide from reality). I just read all your answers to my post and all I can say right now Is that I will not post the way I have anymore. If I do I will try and say something that could ”belong” to the MB site and not about my pain. You are right - I am an OW and I’m not even a WS - so this is not really my place. Had I been the MM you have talked to me differently I believe.<P>I realize that there are so many BS here and perhaps I went too far with my own pain - Yes I know there is a ”gloryweb” - I just never felt at home there. By the way It’s a silly name there is nothing ”glory” about this.<P>Anyway I’ll keep myself in a ”lurking-mood” and try not to inflict more pain then I have. I hope that one day I can say - ”I did it” or I ”got out” or anything similar. It’s harder then you think though.<P><BR>Take care<BR>HF<P>Ps - Zorweb - I have a lot of respect for you but I have to say that your remark about:<P>”The problem I have now is that her post was not really remorse full, it seems to be an in your<BR>face, “look what I did”, type of post. I guess I do not buy the sprinkling of remorse I see there. Actually I see no<BR>remorse only some expression of pain. And I do not believe that the pain expressed is based in guilt or remorse. <P>Over time, I am coming to the conclusion that this site is an entertainment for HumbleFish. That she is playing us to her amusement. I could be wrong.”<P>Was WAY out of line!!!!!!!<P>Are you crazy woman??????? - do you really think that I come here for my own made up amusement??????<BR>I’m not here for my entertainment or to play some silly game!!!!! - that remark really hurt!<P>And about ”remorse” - One day I feel it the next day I ignore it simply because it’s to hurtful. I’m not the best person in this world but I do try. You have no idea what it’s like - and if you do - then I appologize but still perhaps we are too different and you are a stronger person then I am. Anyway, hope there are no hard feelings.<P>Ps II - Arik - Thanks!!!!<P>Well I have to add this even thought you will throw bricks at me - It's not all about SEX!!!!! - Geez do you really think that???? - Wake up!!!!!!!!!! - If you are Marriage building then you have to fight this and fight it all the way. If you beleive that It's only about sex then you will have a longer way to go. I'm not saying tha it's the same for everyone but there is a LOT more to an affair then just sex.<P>OK I'll climbe under my stown now.<P>Sorry If I have upset someone again! - It's not my intention!!!!!!

Dear Fish: <P>At first I was appalled by your original post. I thought, "how dare you!" <P>Then I had to ask myself, "Who am I to decide what can, and what cannot be posted?"<P>However, I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who said your post is/was an intentional attempt to bring pain to betrayed spouses and/or amuse yourself.<P>Even the topic "screams" out, "look what WE DID AGAIN!!!!!"<P>If you really wanted help, I believe you would have chosen something more appropriate, such as, "I made a mistake again,"... or "help me, I was weak".<P>Now, granted, I've been wrong before, so if you are serious about your attempt to break contact with MM, I respectfully request that you "tone down" your posts in the future...and consider the emotional state of all parties involved before posting on this forum.<P>Peace, ~Marie<BR>--------------------<P>P.S. So sorry for my previously immature, big-mouthed, b!tchy response. I was feeling a bit on edge last night . It's amazing what PMS can do to a normally intelligent, free-spirited woman like myself. <P>P.P.S. Thanks, K <P><p>[This message has been edited by ohmy_marie (edited July 05, 2001).]

My sentiments exactly Marie...<BR>Thank you for posting!

{{{Fish}}}:<P>I understand the pain you're in. I understand how hard it is to break an addiction. But you have to break the addiction to this married man.<P>I know it's a great high to be with someone who makes you feel special, but moment passes and you end up feeling worse about yourself.<P>Remember how badly this married man is treating you. You talk of "everything between heaven and earth"...and then he leaves. Is that fair to you?<P>Fish, you've gotten a lot of abuse here on this Marriage Builders site. (Yes, abuse, fellow old-timers. I know you're hurting. I know I hurt. I know the pain I feel when I think of my husband lying with someone like Fish. But ripping Fish's face off isn't going to make my situation any better. Some of you [I'd prefer not to make lists] have given stern, yet thoughtful advice. Others have done nothing but vent at Fish. Enabling isn't the same thing as kindness. I keep hearing how "Christian" this site is, but aren't we supposed to "know you are Christians by your love", to paraphrase a song? <end rant> ) But in addition to the abuse you have also gotten some good advice. You need to move on with your life <B>for you</B> and for yourself alone. <P>Know that out there somewhere is a great man for <B>you</B>. He isn't in another relationship; he doesn't leave your bed for any other person. He isn't going to try to hide the fact that he knows you. That's the person you need to go looking for. Don't settle for Mr. When-It's-Convenient. <P>It's going to be hard because what you have experienced with him has been very special, very unique. But it isn't everything love can be.<P>You deserve to know all that love can be, Fish.<P>You deserve to be loved.<P>You can break this addiction. <P>Brightest blessings to you.<BR>I care.<BR>--HBC

Isn't there a way they can "ban" her from posting? SHE DOES NOT BELONG HERE. Please, lets NOT acknowlege her disgusting selfish posts. I am sick of her and I would burst her bubble so quick if I knew her.<P>And Marie I agree with everything you said, and I am THE SERVIOUS WS working my A** off to rebuild my marriage. GET HER HUMBLEFISH OUT OF HERE!

<B>struggling27 - </B> I guess my question to you is, "Who died and left you in charge?"...Ignore humblefish's posts if they offend you. If you continue to read them, you are to blame for how they make you feel, not her.

Nice Heartpin. Appreciate that. The point of this is that the site IS called marriage builders, there ARE other sites for that. <P>Someone else back me up here????????????

struggling27:<P>Sorry, no calvary here. In general, although humblefish's posts are "hurtful" to some, you can choose to ignore them. This is a marriagebuilder's site---and one thing we can do to help this marriage is to try to respectfully persuade humblefish to end the affair.<P>Respectful persuasion is a much more reasonable way to go. Besides, you can't whack someone upside the head with a 4x4 over the 'net... <P>Seriously---if she's upsetting you, don't read the posts.

Struggling<P>If you will read throught this thread and the others started based on this one, you will see that your point of view has a lot of support.<P>I for one am torn. If there were any way to convince HF to give up this affair I'd be in here in a minute. But I don't think she's going to do that for a long time. She seems to want to more used and abused some more. She has told us a little about her home life and she herself seems to be an alcoholic. So her threshold for such things is very high. Being needed by anyone sees to have more control over her then it should. <P>HumbleFish, I really wish you would take the advice you have gotten here on how to end your affair and then seek professional help. You need help over and above anything anyone on this site can give you. You are a hurting soul, love yourself first and formost.<P><BR>MyLife

Good Point K and I appreciate your delivery. I guess I just read all of the responses and was frustrated, and a lot of other people said hurtful things, but then I get the nasty post from someone else.<P>Guess I will just keep to lurking since I respond and don't get acknowledged, maybe I am feeling a little insecure. <P>This site has helped me a lot, but I will stop posting so as not to offend.