<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

I don't know of a Plan C.<P>But just this morning I talked with Steve about doing Plan B after the affair has ended - which I suspect is the case for me - but WS shows no interest in reconciling. This is an easy adaptation according to Steve. However, this doesn't cover being under the same roof.<P>I don't know what you do, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't include YOU moving out - unless you take your kids with you. There has to be a better way.<P>Ask Steve what to do. As much time as you have in this already, its worth a session with him.<P>WAT

010101 (binary ons and offs):<P>I agree wholehearted with WAT, you have a lot invested in this: it is worth the call to Steve.<P>After Plan B it is either Plan R (recovery) or Plan D (divorce). So before looking into plans beyond A and B, find out your options via Steve (nothing like getting it straight from the horse's mouth).<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

OOOO:<P>I, too, would recommend a call to Steve. But you're basically ready for Plan B. What you would do is to discuss this with her---if she's unwilling to move out, then you should do so. You may need to set up documentation and involve a lawyer to try to protect your legal rights, but a separation may be the best plan to save your marriage. It's a risk, certainly---but you're running out of options.<P>If you choose to separate, I would encourage you to "split" the costs (if you both work). You could discuss moving out with the kids, but most mother's won't hear of such an arrangement. Make sure whatever the arrangements, that you have regular and frequent contact with the kids.<P>During my wife's affair, I went to plan B. I left her and our children and stayed at an "extended stay" motel for a couple months. It was expensive, but that was my short-term plan. If Plan B had gone past three months, I would have taken a lease on an apartment. I visited the kids regulary---and they handled the separation reasonably well. They put plenty of pressure on Mom, which was an anticipated side-effect of Plan B. <P>Talk to Steve: he can help you get your ducks in a row.

sorry - double post<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited July 02, 2001).]

K - doesn't OOOO moving out put him in a vulnerable position with regard to divorce negotiations should Plan B not work? I.E., he becomes the "deserter"?<P>I understand there may be no other choice if Plan B is the only option. Perhaps the answer lies in having a separation agreement already written stipulating the conditions as not desertion.<P>Is there any such thing as compulsive counseling for parents without needing physical child abuse to take place first?<P>WAT

OnOff,<P> I agree with WAT on the legal ramifications with moving out. Your WS could go to court and say that you deserted them. The children are another matter. I would strongly suggest you consult with a lawyer in your area. They can give you the pros and cons of you moving out. The stuff that I have read says that the BS should not move out. If the partner wants out they need to be the one that moves. But, if you do seperate have an agreement on the expenses drawn up and leave them for her to sign. <P>Indy

WAT:<P>Yes, leaving on a separation could be considered "desertion". However, some of that has to do with finances (pulling out financial support).<P>The bottom line is that OOOO should talk to a good, solid, pro-marriage family lawyer (who is experienced with divorce cases). It's great if the WS is the one who will leave. It gives the BS a better situation during the separation, and it provides a more solid foundation for establishing custody should the separation proceed to divorce. But it's not always possible.<P>In my case, I talked with my lawyer. His advice was that in all likelihood my wife would gain physical custody of my children because:<P>1. She wanted it<BR>2. She wasn't leaving the kids on a separation<BR>3. There were no other mitigating factors (drug abuse, child abuse).<P>Given that, he counseled that a separation was fine. Because I was willing to continue to support my family while I was gone (my wife is a SAHM), he suggested at first that I just "leave" with filing legal separation papers. It was certainly a chance---but remember, my main goal was to reconcile my marriage. This was the least "hostile" way of extending my marriage and preserving my feelings of love for my wife. There was no plan that I could have tried to get custody of my children without completely alienating my wife (and destroying the marriage). And if the marriage went down the tubes, I knew that I wouldn't have physical custody of the kids (another disaster). So---I took Steve's advice, and went into the "Plan B" separation.<P>And it worked, for me. <P>If it hadn't, I really don't think it would have done much damage, overall. My wife would have divorced me, moved with the kids, and received child support. I would probably have gained standard visitation. Plan B (for me) didn't really jepordize that outcome.

K - I follow your logic and of course, I'm glad your risk worked. But what a risk! Why was it a foregone conclusion that your wife would get custody?<P>WAT

Hi Guys,<P>WAT in most states the W gets the children, if she wants them barring something like alcohol or drug use. The odds are high that OOOO would lose the custody of the children whether he stays or goes. In fact, it seems to me he is not taking much of a risk. If he stays, the odds are high that he will end up divorcing his W as his love dwindles.<P>She did propose that they just stay married for 8? more years so that the children would be raised and then move on. She has made no attempt to reconcile the marriage.<P>Risks are in the eye of the beholder. If he is going to lose the love that sustains him in this mess and end up in divorce, then it is like that he will lose custody of the children. Where is the risk of Plan B, which preserves the love and alerts the WS that there may be something to be gained by at least attempting to rebuild the marriage?<P>I believe you are all right though. He needs to talk to Steve H and a good lawyer to make sure he does have all of the facts and ramifications down. My guess that when he gets it all, he will see that the risk is minimal at this point. There is really no OM to deal with here, just a general level of complete neglect.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

0110:<P>Have you shared Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs with your wife?<P>Through this, you can tell her that you are wanting her to heal and that the books show how it can be approached. To allow this "healing" to take place in her own haphazard and confused way, you lessen the odds of progress (as is evident in your case) ... tell her that the books prescribe a roadmap to recovery. Hopefully, she will read them.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>