I should have read your answers to my questions. <P>Although I did not ask them exactly, I would have not LB'ed as badly as I have...<P>We were having a "talk" about things which was not really going very well. She had said earlier that we were going to celebrate my birthday today with our daughter. Well, she napped all day and never went out to get anything for the "celebration." So she was apologizing for that, and asked if we could do it tomorrow. I said fine, and she asked about my plans for the weekend. (My BD is Friday.) I asked if we could do something for my birthday either Friday or over the weekend and she said no. She doesn't want to. She's sorry, but she doesn't want to. I ask if she has plans wtith OM and she says maybe.<P>Well this is going nowhere fast, and after a few minutes the cell phone rings. It's OM. She gets up and starts to go downstairs. I follow after her and ask if it's him. She says yes and I ask her to please hang up. She says no and goes outside to talk.<P>When she comes back upstairs, she can'y understand why I got upset. What's more, SHE's upset that "acted that way." I explain that it is a normal reaction for a husband to act that way, plus I didn't really even do anything. This leads to her revealing that this sort of "smothering" behavior is something she's hated in our marriage for a long time. It is true that since about last September/October, she has caused me to suspect something, and I started expressing my suspicions outwardly, but I have not done anything warranting this kind of attack. She tried to go back to other incidents in the marriage where I did this... She refuses to remember the good times or the real love. She rewrites the history constantly.<P>She's really upset... wants me out (or her out) immediately. Sep date is still June 16.<P>God, y'all! I've completely crushed all of my Plan A work!!!<P>W: "I don't feel any kind of romantic or sexual attraction to you any more."<P>W: "I can't stand to be around you. I've got to get away from you."<P>This is utter misery.

First, zen, I'm sorry for your pain.<P>Listen, yeah, you messed up, but it can be fixed. It's gonna take our old friend (who we HATE) <B>TIME</B>. <P>My advice: <P>YOU DON'T LEAVE. If she insists, let her be the one to leave.<P>Keep your mouth shut about anything that has to do with the affair. I know how hard it is, and I made this mistake more times than I can count. In the end, it all blew up in my face, and it will in yours too, if you continue the behavior.<P>(((((zen))))) ~~because I think you can use a hug right now.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Zen<P>I think that is a typical response from a wayward spouse. It is easier to blame you for the way she is feeling. Helps her to feel justified.<P>I wouldn't leave Zen, if she can't stand to be around you, she should leave. It's her problem.<P>Just because you LB'd doesn't mean that you have blown everything. Heck, we have all done this, MORE than once. Just try to learn from it and not repeat it. It's not easy that's for sure. But, it can be done with patience and practice.<P>Zen, I am also a believer that the more time she gets to spend with OM, the sooner their little bubble will spring a leak. The leak will slowly turn into a flood.<P>Get back on the wagon and stick with Plan A.

Thanks Nyn...<P>It's her house (brought into marriage) and her daughter (my step) lives here. I have to leave. It's been ok'ed by my attorney as long as the sep agreement looks good.<P>Time... (sigh)... I know. Do you know that I'm taking her dinner that I just cooked to her in bed even as I type this?<P>What the hell is wrong with me? This woman has cut me to the core and continues to do so. I am fighting like a dog to salvage this. Why am I doing it?<P>Because I love her, because I take marriage seriously, because I remember the girl I fell in love with. Right.<P>If you want more bg, check my earlier posts, or my even earlier ones done with my old moniker, "fake_name."<P>Thanks sooo much for the hug,<P>zen

And thanks for that Patient1... I hope you're right about the OM, but... <P>zen

Zen,<P>Hang in there. I feel so bad for you. How on earth can she expect that you would not have a normal reaction to her affair. But I don't get the whole WS thing anyway.<P>You dear man need to take care of yourself. Other's here have given you good advice. Her attacking you means that she is emotionally exploding. Keep your cool.<P>Easy for me to say I know.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Zen,<P>I am sorry for your frustration. Your W is out there in the fog even in this heat that fog exists. <P>Now for yourself. Keep respect for yourself. Sometimes what feels like an LB can not be avoided. Sounds like your W was going to be mad anyway. So why blame yourself for everything. Do you think it would be ok for her if the roles were reversed? No. Do you have a right to be upset when your W prefers to OM to her family? Yes. <P>Can LBs be avoided? Not always. Just make sure in the future that the LB's are not completely generated and controlled by you. OK?<P>Now don't beat yourself up and smile <P>L.

I owe all of you... Thanks... I mean it... zor and Orchid, too...<P>BTW, she seems not mad now. We even briefly squeezed hands.<P>plan A, plan A, plan A...<P>And SMILES, thanks to you guys!<P>zen

Hi again,<P>I've read some of what you've written, though I admit to not knowing the "whole story"... what I can say is that you are deeply in love with your W, want her to love you like she used to, and wish she'd dump the OM like yesterday's trash -- is that about right? <P>You remind me a bit of my ex-H, and that's why I'm telling you to be careful. We are divorced, because of all sorts of things (not the least of which was his 5th OW) but like all stories, there was more to it. One of the other reasons, for SURE, was that he would not stop questioning me when I ended the affair I had (lasted three months and I slept with the OM once). I had told him everything, and he still wouldn't stop. He was pathetic, and of COURSE it was understandable, but it spelled "weakness" to me in my foggy brain. You don't want your W to see you as weak. That's a death knell to a recovering marriage.<P>Yes, you love her, and yes, you're miserable... but... if you can, put a SMILE on your face, ignore the OM right now, and don't smother her or ask questions. <P>Don't go moving out in the morning either... wait and see if she cools down a bit, okay?<P>You're a good guy.

Zen,<BR>I can really feel your pain. As I am going through the exact situtation. However, I have learned that no matter what, you must keep yourself a plesant person. It pays off in my case, I hope it will in yours too.

Good thoughts, Nyn and Humper...<P>I know it! Smile, smile, smile! I really don't need to let it get to me... <P>I think i'm OK on the not seeming weak... But July 15 will be my last night here.<P>Thanks so much once again for your support... Humper, if we're in the same boat, let's make sure to compare notes... nyn, thanks for the insider info!<P>(starting to get back my) zen

Zen,<BR>I will put in as much as possible, but I am still new to this, so my input might not apply.<P>What I have learned:<P>As long as I dont mention anything about the A, things are always pleasent. As other might already point out, it too is difficult for the WS to deal with the pain (or the pain they had cause), so they would rather ignore it for the moment(escape if you would).<P>Re-establash friendship with WS, I let her know that I dont expect anything from her at the moment, but at the same time, I make sure I am always there when she needs me.(kinda twisted, but basically what the OM did to pry WS form me). This kinda go like how the bank deal with loan application, the more desperate you seems, the less likely that they will approve it. (add that to the love-bank theory, lol)<P>

Humper:<P>I like the bank loan analogy... In your case, is the A over? My W claimed hers was "practically over" last Sunday night, but I now see that to be untrue.<P>It's tough to act like you don't care when your W says she might be with OM on your birthday.<P>zen

Hi zen - once again I'm late to the scene, but you've gotten good advice.<P>Now some important questions:<P>1. What is the legal status of the home ownership. Are you on the mortgage and/or deed?<P>2. Have you adopted your step daughter?<P>As you can suspect, these questions are related to whether you or she should leave.<P>Finally, she's following the WS script. I heard all the same stuff. I LB'd a lot worse than this - probably most of us have. Put it behind you.<P>WAT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zen:<BR><B>... But July 15 will be my last night here.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Uh, I'm no expert at this FER SURE but if Zen will be moving out on July 15, then he's got 10 days to Plan A his BUNS OFF to leave her with a good memory. Once he moves out, shouldn't he go to Plan B, and let her HAVE her OM? <BR>At that point in time, won't the REAL FUN begin? Hey, I'm beginning to like the way this stuff works!! <BR>Someone, please correct me if this is wrong. I sure wouldn't want to give this sweet man the wrong advice.<BR>Lupo<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lupolady:<BR><B> Uh, I'm no expert at this FER SURE but if Zen will be moving out on July 15, then he's got 10 days to Plan A his BUNS OFF to leave her with a good memory. Once he moves out, shouldn't he go to Plan B, and let her HAVE her OM? <BR>At that point in time, won't the REAL FUN begin? Hey, I'm beginning to like the way this stuff works!! <BR>Someone, please correct me if this is wrong. I sure wouldn't want to give this sweet man the wrong advice.<BR>Lupo</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, Lupo, that is ONE possibility. Another would be to continue his Plan A efforts, even away from the marital home. <P>It's more difficult, of course, but can be done, and with good results.<P>Plan B could work too, and it sometimes causes more QUICK results than Plan A. However, it is to be implimented only after a solid Plan A, and should be seamless... plus, it has it's own "rules" like a Plan B letter. <P>zen, it ain't over 'till it's over!!!<P>

Aw, thanks, Lupo... Only at this point, I feel like this is where being "sweet" has gotten me.<P>WAT, et al: Both of our names ARE on the mortgage, but the house was originally hers (brought into the marriage), so there you have it. I would certainly adopt my step-daughter but you can only do that if a parent has died or waived their parental rights, neither of which is the case. She and I are as close as true father-daughter, though...<P>My wife has proposed a sep agreement. I've proposed changes approved by my lawyer. If she agrees to it, I will not be back to live there after July 15.<P>But my W has made it clear that I am to feel free to come and go at any time to spend time with our little girl. (No mention of spending time with her.)<P>So Lupolady, I will be Plan A'ing until then and afterwards. She doesn't give me too much of a chance to Plan A, really.<P>Thanks so much for your help, y'all... I really appreciate you...<P>zen

OK zen, only you can make the call, obviously, but the way I see it, you are under no obligation to leave YOUR house. It doesn't matter that it was her's before the marriage. It's equally your's now.<P>But since it seems like you will leave, you ARE under obligation to contribute to paying the mortgage - just as your wife would be if she left - unless there are alternate arrangements in the legal separation. I recommend you not pay anything towards the mortgage and have this specified in the separation document - along with all other financial "sharing". Hopefully you've thought all this out. Didn't mean to insult you.<P>WAT

WAT:<P>No insult taken at all, my friend! Sorry if the CAPS threw you off a bit...<P>The sep agreement she drafted was very biased in my favor... Guilt? Probably. But even though it was good, it was not quite good enough. It was also not on my terms, which I feel like is MY prerogative as she is the one who has broken the contract and now wants ME to leave. So I've counter-offered and she's accepted, I believe.<P>You know, I still sometimes think that maybe I should stay in the house just to make her actually GO THROUGH WITH IT. But I've come to the conclusion that that would be a HUGE LB. I would never realistically get the house if it went that far, and if we don't reconcile, I don't want it. Also, the little girl's feelings. It makes the most sense for me to leave, and she is ADAMANT that we separate.<P>I just can't tell if I'm being totally manipulated or actually just Plan A'ing by moving... If a definition of Plan A is "to not LB", then I'm OK... I'm also doing something for myself, so it seems like Plan A...<P>Hmmmm... Good question... Is "not LB'ing" alone enough to be called a Plan A component, or does a Plan A action require, well, and action...?<P>thx<BR>zen

Little bump so that WAT takes a look...<P>-z