SmallCap - thank you for sharing your point of view. Hopefully you realize that your view will be branded as abhorrent to most BSs, myself included, not for the description of your reaction, but for your reasoning behind it. So be it. We need to see it and attempt to understand. I will not argue with you or flame you because this would diminish our chances of learning more.

I ask others to take this same approach for the greater good. If you want to argue or flame SmallCap, take it to another thread.

<small>[ November 08, 2002, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT -- Wow, thank you for being so gracious.

I posted the other day, also, for the very first time on MB... & was more-than-a-little apprehensive... but that post was treated very graciously, too. I suppose I was hopeful because we do have such good dialogue with more than a few wives on TOW, including some I've seen around here.

I am not the type of person who gets too bothered either way over what other people think of me, so I thought explaining my own experiences might help posteres here take a peek inside their own spouse's brain... I am a big believer that you can *never* overestimate the importance of doing that in a long-term relationship.

Anyway. I read your other post, too, similar to this one but specifically about telling your spouse's family... I do feel so strongly about this issue because of my own experience with that... I did not have a terrific relationship with my family prior to the disclosure of the affair, & pretty much all my ex-husband accomplished was to make it that much more unlikely that I will, ever. It didn't save our marriage, it didn't help him much, I don't think, it didn't end the affair, it just drove a wedge further between myself & certain people in my life. And I know that most of you would define any & all affairs as wrong, but even then, I'm not sure that two wrongs (in my view) make a right, y'know?

You asked in your other post what factors determine whether or not this is a good decision. These are my thoughts:

Even more important than *your* relationship with your spouse's family, I think, is *their own* relationship with their family. Because if there is not a strong, healthy relationship there in the first place, I think it's likely that involving them can backfire.

Another factor, I think, is the personality of the spouse -- I am a person who tends to dislike authority of most kinds, & in fact, reacts to peer pressure in quite an opposite way. (According to my father, the best tool for raising me as a child was reverse psychology!) So. I'd bet it's the same rules as those about intervention -- because that's basically what this is, in my opinion -- certain people respond well to that technique & others don't, & that's often a function of their social style.

The other factor (at least in my case) is the degree of privacy the spouse usually wants -- & I'm talking in *everything*, not just about the affair. I know you see it differently, but as I said, what I considered to be an invasion of my privacy in this case would have driven me away from a partner in almost any situation. Everyone has a list of those "deal-breaker" items that they cannot get past in a relationship, & that happens to be one of mine.

So those are my thoughts, which I really do intend to be helpful. I am not sure that what you're asking is right in all cases or wrong in all cases, but those are some of the things I would take into consideration.

SmallCap

Just about a year ago I told my xMM's W. The EMA was over and she had known about us for a long time. I'm sure that she didn't know all of the details but there's no question that she had a strong inclination.

With encouragement from another BS I sent her a letter and laid it all out. Then later when he contacted me I called her directly.

This much time later I wish that I hadn't. It was a selfish thing to do and their marriage was/is none of my business.

I was emotionally addicted to my MM and needed for his to stay away. Neither one of us could accomplish that on our own. Involving his BS got the job done, but at what cost. Looking back I think it was cruel and unnecessary to contact her at all. What happened between us was between us. I would think that just suspecting was painful enough. Giving her fact and details was an uncaring thing to do on my part.

At the time I took the action I did believe that it was what was best. She did deserve to know, but I don't think it was my job to tell her. PLUS telling her didn't keep him away from me for that long. Sure it pissed him off. Sure it caused him trouble at home. It didn't make him hate me the way i'd hoped it would.

I feel like she has been treated unkindly by him and then also by me.

As a living ammends to this woman I maintain strict NC with the 2 of them. So far so good.

There was no way-ethically-morally-humanly-if I could find the OW H (which I did find him quite simply)that I couldn't tell him that his W was having an A with my H. My ONLY reason was someone else should NEVER have to live a lie like I had been. When I told my grown son, what was going on- he figured it out immediately and told me where they lived-I walked right up to him-we were complete strangers at that point-assured him I was not a psycho- but a strong Christian woman and that I had a sad thing to tell him- I had no real idea if he knew already but I doubted it. He was shocked- sad-sadder- and MAD as a hornet. but never mad at me. now later in this chat I found out he had just returned from his fathers funeral- bad day x2. Since I didn't know him- I sure didn't know that fact until I asked why he was home and so dressed up in the middle of the day. ((I met him at his childs bus stop-literally on my own street)) MY H had a COMPLETE fit that I had told his OW mate...((I told my H immediately that I had been to see the OW h))....ONLY then did other ramifications of my telling start to sink in. I would not change what I did. Now we all know what we are dealing with- and now I find that the OW is really suffering........well there is a bonus I hadn't thought of. I pray for them- they are NOT where we are-putting it back together-but maybe one of them will cave in and GET REAL...hes mad/shes arrogant...meanwhile.....I have many counselors-and they ALL agree-even the ministers! that I did the right thing by OUTING the A.

This topic is applicable to me today because I need to inform the OW's H. Three weeks ago (10/28), my WH ended all contact w/the OW and was very confident in his decision to do so. I called the OW (left a vm for her at work) confirming that my H had shared w/me their conversation in detail, that we were committed to MC and working on our R and I expected her to respect that. I told her I was giving her a gift by not telling her H - but the 1st time I discovered any contact, I would not wait 5 seconds before contacting him.

Well, yesterday I discovered her # as an incoming call on my H's cell phone. I confronted him immediately (he had promised to tell me if she contacted him) and he said she had called to see "how I was doing, if I was still working on my M, and if I would agree to see her". He promised me he told her no and that he was definately still working on his M. She (supposedly) is also in MC. I have been monitoring my H pretty closely since the N/C agreement so, since I have not seen or felt they have had contact, I chose to believe him. Of course, this means that I have to follow through and share info with the OW's H. Since I am a kind person, though she deserves everything she gets, the prospect of shattering the world of someone I don't even know...is very difficult. Especially with the upcoming holidays (they have 2 small children).

She needs to be focused inward on her M in order to stay out of mine. Also, It is more difficult to monitor my H's actions while no one is monitoring hers. Wish me luck!

This thread is very very long and I read the first page and the last page as it was started when I was still blissfully (?) unawares of my problems. So I don't know if this was dealt with on pages 2-4 so here goes...
What if there is no OP spouse? I believe my WH told me she is dating her XH again. I don't know this person at all but I wonder if he should be told. If he is really thinking about getting back together with her, he should know that she was emotionally and physically involved with OMM during their dates. OOPS, I think I'm getting po'd here......
Anyway, I think I'll just deal with my own problems and let him find out himself...
I think I had another point to make but I am just so scatterbrained lately....
It should be Dizzy Blonde.
DB

2Success:

Don't know if you have talked to the other BS yet...But I made the same ultimatum in May. It was broken by FOW several times. But I didn't call. In fact I ended up telling her I wouldn't.

But let me say this that this topic was just discussed bw FWH and myself last night. I would have wanted to be told by anybody and not live a lie. In fact FOW H intercepted an email from my H at the beginning of the A and was going to call me...but OW was able to excuse it. Anyway I am sure he has had suspicions all along. And it didn't stop the EA becoming a PA several months later.

But this is what I decided many months ago..the woman will always live in the prison her decite has made. She doesn't have the courage to lay it all out like my H did (he confessed; she got pissed) and by my telling her H I let her out; I am doing her a favour. The best revenge is that she will never NEVER know the beauty of true and lasting love, she will never now the joys (despite all the pain of the last month/year) that I see in my M. I will not give her that gift by outing her former A with my H.

I hope that you know that you don't have to tell the other BS. That she will be living the fear of that for the rest of her life. Our FOW doesn't know if she wants to go to the Xmas party because she fears running into me and her H running into us. Imagine 'living' like that!!

Just something to think about.

A_Grace- Thanks for your thoughts. I will certainly consider them. Just knowing that she will wonder when/if I will tell her H would be a bonus. Sharing this information with the OW's H is not exactly something that I would relish doing....

A_Grace - you provided an interesting angle for others to consider. By NOT telling the OP's spouse, but showing the willingness to do so, could represent a continuous, nagging worry if not a time bomb. You would have quite a bit of power in your hip pocket. (I wonder what you'd have to do to be guilty of extortion?)

A while back there was a poster here who had video tapes of his W and a married OM having sex that he was holding in reserve. Can you imagine that weapon? I remember telling him he was the most powerful man on the planet. Don't know what happened to him or if he ever "used" the tapes.

WAT

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

WAT;

As you said I have got the power (here that 80s song in my head) I took it back for me. But I did tell her that I wouldn't tell him (back in July). And therefore she felt safe in asking my H how we were doing. The last time I spoke with her she had asked my H out to breakfast!!! She was made bc he did not respond. I lost it then (before I had been calmer than calm when talking with her). Told her that she needed more therapy, and that No Contact meant just that. FWH sent a formal letter several weeks later. Anyway the point is she just will never know if I will go off the deep end and contact her H. And it is for her to worry about.

In truth I do not hate her. I pity her. And she is no longer a factor in my healing.

A_Grace - Thanks alot! Now I'VE got that annoying song in my head!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not necessarily a bad thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

FIRST...I did NOT read all the replies, as I just don't have the time today...and there are a bunch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's strange, because I firmly believe that the spouse has a right to know...yet, I did NOT tell my H's xOW's spouse. I had several, what I considered, "good" reasons for not doing so at the time.

1. I knew him and their family, I couldn't imagine doing to him and their kids what had been done to me.

2. I wasn't for sure what his reaction might have been, as I feared it might be violent, not only to his W, but to my H.

3. I believed that when we cut off all communication with them, if he didn't figure it out...he didn't want to know. (We spent a LOT of time as a foursome right before I confronted H.)

4. I was emotionally incapable of dealing with anything but holding myself together.

5. I told my H and her that I wouldn't tell. (Part fear of her H, part fear for myself if she became available, part agreeing before I had time to really think about it.)

Now part of my agreeing to not tell her H was that she abide by my H's request of NC. Of course, both of them broke it over the next couple of weeks with phone contact. Later, after my H found closure for himself...she still tried to contact him...it became almost a game as to what lengths my H had to go to avoid her. But, I never seriously thought about going back on my word to not tell her H.

Maybe I was wrong...ok, likely I was wrong. But, in my situation...I feel that I did what was best for me, not what was best for her H.

From another perspective, I would have given a king's ransom had somebody, anybody told me. Yes, I'm a BS. But it also made me an OP's spouse.

I now know that others were aware of WW's infidelity. They were willing to talk behind my back, but nobody came forward with the info. How I wish they had.

So, from the spouse of the OP, YES, TELL EVERYTHING.

LesTIWas:

Who did end up telling you? Was it your S?

just like dazedblonde I have another scenario:

What if the OM's W is separated from him? He filed for divorce in March of 2001 to withdraw it April 2001, but re-filed in December 2001. She apparently abused their two kids and has had several evaluations and treatments (I don't know for what, but I believe it must be psychological). Their financial hearing is in January, 2003, so their divorce may not be final for a while.

Any thoughts?

i have been considering getting everything out in the open with everybody and just read the whole thread (ok i didn't read every single word but almost time to get kids up). H and I are/were friends with OW and her bf. she doesn't know that i know and her h doesn't know, but i'm fairly certain he suspects. i really really really don't want to tell him but to make a long story short we are still around them some and every time i see him all i can think about is that everybody knows what's going on except him. i think what i am probably going to do is talk to her and let her know that my H told me everything (probably an LB bc he told her he wouldn't tell anybody but at this point i'm not really all that concerned about that) and that she needs to tell her bf. i thought about telling her that if she doesn't tell him then i will but not sure i want to say that bc then i would have to follow through with it. so far, she thinks i am totally in the dark about everything (didn't know i was such a good actress).

On telling the OP's spouse. it is not BS or to get even.It is gaining a weapon to end the A! when it's out in the open to both BS's, it makes it harder for the WS's to continue, doesn't it? It sure helped end my H's A. The minute I told her H and sent him proof, she wrote the final ending note to my H. No more contact. Go for it and ignore the BS theory. Is it getting even for hurt? In a way, but the real issue is gaining more of a weapon to end this A. The more who know, the harder it makes it for them to continue their little deceits. LouLou

So WAT what do think about this one?

I’ve contemplated a little discussion on this issue. Hanging out in Recovery I missed this the first time around but it caught my eye today.

For those who don’t know me I’m 2.5 years into recovery and my M is back on track and doing very well. But this topic does still plagues me from time to time. Way back when I did not tell xOM’s, then faience. They married 2 months after my D-day. (Aren’t these things always so complicated)?

In the beginning I wanted to talk but did not tell because it was leverage. I told my W if there were anymore contact, OMWtoB would be my first call. I’m sure a little bird passed this on to him because there were zero attempts at contact by him.

My desire to tell evolved into different forms along the way. At first I felt she had a right to know, and it was the right thing to do. Still my W didn’t want me to and I followed Hurting Deeply’s advice even then. I followed the POJA and since I didn’t have my W’s enthusiastic agreement I again abstained from telling. Eventually it turned to anger and I wanted to tell out of revenge. I wanted his life as torn as mine. I wrote letters that were never sent. Tracked down her phone number but never dialed it. Something inside me couldn’t do it out of anger.

Today it is the one thing I wish I could go back and do-over. With a do-over I would have told day 1. Not for anger, not because it is the right thing to do, but simply because I was given a choice she never had. I chose my W and to work on the M. She was left in the dark and I am the one who left there. Well, me and the OM.

Here it is 2.5 years later and I feel so guilty and embarrassed over this. Yet I’ve decided I’ll never tell her. I mean what do I do, call her and tell her I let her marry a guy that I knew was a creep. Tell her I’m sorry I let him get away with this secret for 2.5 years. Tell her my life is great and hers can be too, Do I risk drudging all the hurt in my life back up. My answer is no.

But for the record, I’m an advocate of telling. Even though I’m a coward….

Oz

Wow, Oz, that really hit home about her not having a choice that you had. Profound.
DB