Good Morning!<P>Came into work and low and behold I have an email from H. I don't know if I should respond or not. A while back (pre-D) my H emailed me and said because I see one of the OC's frequently that we would always be in contact. H's excuse to hear from me or know how I was, I guess. But I stayed pretty much strict Plan B up until yesterday.<P>In the email below Steve mentions "Wonderboy", that's my step-son. My H does not have custody of SS, so I do not have to answer to H regarding visitation. (Helga = SS's Grandmother)<P>I read your responses on my last thread from yesterday's drama filled day, and I see WAT says I should be in STRICT Plan B. I'm not sure what I should do .. respond or don't respond? Plus, what is your take regarding his comments about me/us.<P>*****************************<BR>H's email to me:<P>Dear Joanne,<P>I really appreciated that you talked to me yesterday. It was good to talk to you again. Although this has been rough for you, you sounded good and you sounded strong.<P>Wonder boy say's he is going with you this weekend. He really likes spending time with you. I asked him if he still thinks Gig Harbor stinks, but he said "I never said that!"<P>He has become quite a skater at the skate parks. I warn you, he might hit you up for some new skates (K2's $250). I have told him I will only buy him news skates if he follows through with his skating, does a bit better in school and show a sportsman attitude. He might try a short cut to the new skates by asking you because you are very generous. I guess it's a "Dad" thing. Also, he might try and skate with no helmet because the other skaters do. If you want to take him to the skate park I will leave his skates with<BR>Helga.<P>I think of you often. As time goes on the bad memories fade and the good ones stay. <P>Please be well,<BR>Steve<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

Jo - you know what I'm gonna say. Don't respond.<P>Regarding his comments about you/him - who knows what he's thinking? Could be anything - it would be a guess for anyone.<P>But, you're scaring me a little. Please don't place too much credibility on my opinions. Remember, I'm much closer to being served papers than I am to retaking vows with my wife.<P>WAT

I vote don't answer...he's fishing...<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR><I>Live Impeccably In Your Word.<BR>Don't Take Anything Personally.<BR>Make No Assumptions.<BR>Do Your Best Always. </I>

I vote don't answer. And the statement about "memories" could just be him sharing a passing thought - not to be taken to seriously. He SHOULD feel that way. But it's not enough for you to make any judgments about his commitment.

Jo, <P>I agree with Dave. NO response. You have Wonderboy this weekend! That is all that he needs to know. I would not respond. As far as what he is thinking? IMHO, as a recovering WS, it is his feable attempt at being your *friend*, and again making himself feel better about what he has done to you, and is still doing. If he gets a friendly response from you, he feels alright with everything and he is doing the right thing. If he gets an angry response, he chalks it up to you havent gotten past it yet, and it allows him to be angry with you still. No response means just that....you have no response to him. You dont owe him anything after what he has done. If it makes him feel better to be nice, after being an A$$, so be it. <P>Dont respond!!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*<P>Trueheart

Jo,<P>My vote would be to not respond.

I have a different opinion. Plan a and b are guidelines and I agree with them in general, but life is messy and one has to be flexible. As the ws I can tell you we do think about stuff, and watch what you do, he understands full well (I would guess) what plan b is about and what it means. This "felt" like to me an honest (not manipulative) attempt at connecting, do with it as you will, but IMO sincere attempts need to be at least recognized, otherwise why bother? At some point a miscommunication can occur where the plan b feels manipulative and the ws says the hel* with it. Nothing fancy, just thanks for your thoughts, have a nice day.

Jo,<P>I will be the odd man out on this issue. You know me. I recommend you ask Steve. This is a big issue for you or you would not be out here asking our advice. <P>You are a woman and have feelings. Being strong and tuff right now is extremely difficult. Easy to say, but hard to do. I know. <P>Jo, he is saying some nice things and my personal gut is that he is scared. He may want to say more. Can't really tell. Sounds like it but hey I am a romantic person at heart. (even tax people have a heart you know!!!). <P>Yet his thoughts are not clear and no real commitment is being extended on his part. This in itself is making us wonder of his sincerity. However, the fog may be lifting. I'll bet that you are wondering about his last sentence: <P>"I think of you often. As time goes on the bad memories fade and the good ones stay."<P>Is that the one bugging you and you want to know more? Hm.... you are normal lady. You want to have hope. There is nothing wrong with that. <P>Ok. we recognize that. We don't want your hopes and dreams stomped on again by anyone. You are too precious to us and it will hurt us also to see anyone do that to you. <P>So, talk to Steve. Let us know (if you want to). <P>L.<BR>

Jo,<P>We all make mistakes don't we? 30 years ago, all the counselors told their clients to divorce, and look what has happened. If you've done any research beyond MB, the human is a very complex thing. There are other great resources out there other than the "relationship isle at Barnes and Noble". There is the dewey 248., 155., 306. Dr. Dobson was one of the first to start working with his clients to stay together - novel idea.<P>Sounds like your in the NW? You have one of the leading authorities up there at the UDub - Dr. Gottman - The Gottman Institute. Please tell ME, that you've heard of him. I wanted to go to his seminar - but, I have to raise about $2,000 to go. Extra counseling, hotels, meals, and gasoline. I am not any closer today, than I was in Jan when I was trying to figure a way to go.<P>And, like I mentioned last night, sounds like you never discussed the divorce papers, and the delivery, and you just assumed. Don't get mad at me for saying it like this, you jumped to a conclusion, you did not know the facts, you just thought . . . <P>I am more in agreement with Orchid - maybe he realizes (or is just beginning to realize that he made a big mistake). You have a heart, and soul, and you know how you feel about him. In your lifetime, you will never feel that way about anyone else. And, Plan A, and Plan B, are guidelines. But Plan B did not work the way it was suppose to - because he is suppose to decide and act. And now, you still have contact because of OC.<P>Jo, you can listen to all of us here, make judgments about "what he is doing", but they really don't know. You have got to analyze SAA, and make your decisions based on your most educated opinion. You can listen to your heart, or just listen to your brain. What is a chance? How much hurt is involved? Where are you going with all of this? Maybe, xH is trying to tell you something else. You will never know unless you modify your actions to find out. I definately would not let him sit on any fence - its either you or her - but if you decide to close yourself off, you will never know. It's your decision. (I won't tell you exactly what action I would do, unless you ask me directly). hugs, aftershock<BR>

After Shock,<P>I did blow it by making assumptions. Plan B didn't allow me to discuss it with my H, so I was quite hurt for a term. <P>I don't believe my H thinks he made a mistake. I'm pretty sure he thinks he needed the D to make a new start FOR HIMSELF. It doesn't make sense to me, but that's what he has said. In all of this, yesterday is the first time my H has asked me "HOW ARE YOU?", even when I was sick he didn't ask me that. <P>Yes, After Shock, I have heard of Gottman, I'm very interested in attending one of his seminars/workshops, but my work takes so much of my time. Hopefully someday soon.<P>So okay, AS, I'm asking you exactly what action you would take if you were me. I'm very interested in hearing it, altho you might want to catch up on my story before offering it. There are a lot of variables at work here.<P>I just received another phone call from H. We discussed OC for a min or two.<P>I almost threw up before I asked him this, but I wanted to know .... I asked him if he and OW had plans of marrying, his answer ... no, we don't, not in their future plans. He said it was not a consideration because he feels he has failed at marriage and also because of her large family (4 children) and the nuances tied to that legally and financially.<P>I told him once again how much it hurts to talk to him when I know he is with someone else, how it "reignites" (thanks WAT) my feelings for him. He said that we needed to talk because of OC. Then he said that he would let me call him, and he would not contact me, if that was my wish. He was really fighting me on this.<P>Jo<P><BR>

Jo,<P>You kind of already did what "I" would do - he called, and you two talked.<P>Yes, I would like to know the entire story, I guess before I start giving advice about what I would do. Tell me what board you posted on most, and I'll go back and research, or . . . you can give me a long one here.<P>It just does not make sense - why? It really is a very simple matter, he has needs, you have needs, you don't meet each other's needs, so someone goes out somewhere and has an A. Then all the emotional stuff starts happening - the hurt, betrayal, anguish, rage, hate, love. Nothing makes sense.<P>In your case, you just found out answers that were much different than you thought - it was coincidental - and now he is showing concern for you. You just asked him if he was planning to get married to her, you are still interested. What I would do (and it is completely different from other advice) is talk to him, honestly and openly. You are going have to heal this stuff anyway - but you must know you will be openning yourself up for more hurt, and we know that - but, I would ask him for a talk, extended, make sure he will allow enough time (not just an hour), to explain. You are going to continue to wonder what is going on. He is using SS as an excuse to see you to talk to you - he's asked you that much - but he won't come get his stuff. Forget the stuff for a while, if he really cared about it he would come and get it - but he wants to get together to talk about SS - isn't that telling you something?<P>I hope I'm not wrong here - but people make mistakes - there are only two things final in this world (you've heard) taxes and death. Everything can be adjusted, everything is subjective (except killing someone).<P>Follow the MB principles - no angry outbursts... etc. you know them - and listen to what he has to say - he must have something to say - ask him honestly to tell you - you need to know.<P>Listen girl, I've been in my own hell for 17 months now, and actually alot longer it goes back 5-6 years. I call it marriage neglect. So, I'm getting a chance to fix it. So, if you want to know, I get beaten down everyday, because I want to know if my H's feelings have changed, does he feel differently????? How long have you been at it now? We are 14 1/2 years together. And it hurts everyday. Tell me, okay? <P>(((((((((((((((((((((((((((( hugs ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))<P>aftershock<P>Sorrow looks down<BR>Fear looks around<BR>Faith looks UP<P>p.s. you didn't answer one of my questions - but I'll do some research and let you know later what you didn't answer - ha, ha, ha<P>Thanks for being the bright spot in my day today. C

Jo, I wish I could say that there is anything new in this...but I don't...in fact I agree with Trueheart that this probably is just his attempt to keep in touch with you to ease his own guilt.<P>This man knows you well...he has used that against you so many times...the fact that you love him so much...it's no wonder he wants to keep you in his life...but he also wants his other selfish life...a life he can't have with you (or he thinks so).<P>He knows the words you need to hear...and until you hear those words I don't really think you need to be breaking your plan B to talk to him....remember you're no one's back up plan...either he wants you or he doesn't...but you need to take yourself out of the competition while he gets to decide...taking into account that you could move on at any time now that you're divorced.<P>Sometimes hope is our greatest enemy...it stands in the way of doing what is necessary. You've done all the things you need to do...it's his turn now...wait on him if you want but don't make things easier for him and hard on you...do what is best for you.<P>Faye <P>