W called and told me she was coming by to walk the dog. Her friend the one she is getting the apt. with was also going to meet her here as well but not until 6:30 or 7:00pm. She said that she was going to come on over and got here around 5:30pm. Of course the conversation eventually lead to us and what are we going to do. I hope the things I said are not LB's please let me know. She said that she felt like she didn't know the person that she fell in love with and that both of us have changed. She went on to say that she felt like I lost my 'zest' for life and wondered what would I do if things didn't work out. I told her that it was hard right now b/c of the things between us but I would be fine either way. I went on to say that this whole thing has made me realize that I can be a better husband and if she chooses not to want me as her husband that I would make somebody happy and be a good father as well. <BR>Is this an LB?<BR>We also talked about how her getting an apt. would only make it easier for her to seperate and I was concerned about that. I told her that in relationships and marriage people always change and after awile the 'inlove' feeling wears off and that is when the work begins in the marriage. She said that if she chooses not to go to counseling under my timeline that I was judgeing her. This really confused me. She said that she needed to fix her first and I needed to fix me before we could fix the marriage or the marriage would never work. I agreed with her but reiterated that it was important that we seek counseling to get to the bottom of the issues. She said nothing. I told her that the easy way out was not working it out and the hard way was trying to work it out. She disagreed with me saying that she thought it was equally as hard either way. She also said that it would be easy to come back because everything she has is here but she could not compromise and she felt like this was just a house and not a home anymore. <BR>What does this mean? Is it equally as hard for the WS to come back vs. leaving the marriage????<P>Anyway, the night ended with her going on her walk and I made dinner and she left and that was it. Another night of the coaster. I don't know if she is coming over to b/c she wants to see me or the dog? Any ideas??<P>One last very important thing, she made the mistake of checking her cell phone VM from our home phone and I hit redail, now I have her password to check her cell VM. Should I do this at this point in time or just forget about it?<P>Thanks,<P>GC

<B>I went on to say that this whole thing has made me realize that I can be a better husband and if she chooses not to want me as her husband that I would make somebody happy and be a good father as well. <BR>Is this an LB?</B><P>No. This is good. Now the tone of voice (judgmental or angry) could make it LB, but not if you said it matter of factly.<P>you and your W are reading from the same script my H and I did. You are having the same conversation we did - at least once - maybe more.<P><B>What does this mean? Is it equally as hard for the WS to come back vs. leaving the marriage????</B><P>I think so. They have a lot of guilt for the A, and they are truly confused about how they love the BS, and often feel hopeless at all for success in the marriage. They often feel like it is easier to D, and they'll often threaten it if you push them to fast. If you don't push them, they usually have a conscience, they see the good things in you as you do a good Plan A, and are not sure they really want to D. This is waffling.<P>DOn't have a clue if she wants to see you or the dog.. perhaps both, honestly - it's probably both. Put on your best Plan A!<P>hmmmm voice mail.. . I have a tough time with this one.. help someone else??? I had a tendency to snoop a little too long. You have to decide when it's time to stop snooping. I wanted to know what I was dealing with - OW or not? I would recommend NOT doing it. What will you find? OM? Will it hurt you to hear it? Will it affect your Plan A at all? In effect, will it really make a difference what you hear? <P>Just my thoughts.... you'll get some more feedback, I hope.<P>Hang in there. I think you are doing fine.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith1<P>"Then Jesus answered, 'Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.'"<BR>Matt 15:28

Thanks for your reply Faith1, you truly make me feel better about things. I will wait on the snooping, I guess although it wil lkill me not to find out anything on her. She is house sitting this weekend for another Dr. and that makes me want to kow if the OM is coing over or not. Again, do I snoop or not. remember last time, I got caught.<P>GC

GDC,<P>I once asked Steve H. a similar question in a counseling session. It went something like this.<P>SH - If you already know about the OM and she is not at home, What do you have to gain by snooping?<P>ME - I like to know if I'm being lied to or not.<P>SH - You've already proven to yourself that she will not tell the truth about any aspect of the affair, so is it reasonable to just assume for now that most of the things she tells you are not real?<P>ME - Of course damn near every thing she says is complete BS<P>SH - So what do you have to gain by snooping any further? Will it make you feel better to see/hear/know for sure again? Will it help you in your Plan A efforts? What effect will it have on her if she finds out? <P>ME - …….duh……notin but bad<P>So my friend there is really no upside to snooping right now. <BR>

H.I.<BR>I see your point. It's just so hard to resist the temptation to not snoop. Especially if you are not sure whether the A is still ongoing or not. I mentioned her house sitting this weekend, and the house is within a couple of miles from OM, I just wonder what is going on. I mean I am the victim here and she makes me out the badguy. Evevrything is so backwards from normal. She should be begging to come back to me. Maybe I should just start pulling away some more as so many have said in here. The line is so fine between Dobson's Tough Love and MB's Plan A, how does one find that happy median?<P>GC

GDC,<P><BR>You're only a victim if you choose to view it that way. Just assume that she is with the OM until you see signs of her turning her thoughts towards your. I think the fine line you're talking about is the one between Plan A/Plan B.<BR>

NO matter what she has and is doing, You need to treat her with the same respect you yourself want to be treated with. I know that is seems unfair, but that is really the only way. If you treat her with that respect she will have NOTHING to came back at you with, such as " you snooped in my stuff, or a million other things that will make it easier to go to the OP. I do not mean be a doormat, but a little respect goes a long way. <BR> In the first few months of recovery for us, I would snoop, check email accts, voicemail, call his work, EVERYTHING. My H was getting tired of it, in his eyes I was smothering him, in my eyes I was dealing with a hurt., Both of us were wrong. We decided that we had to respect one another. When we did that, He began calling in the day out of the blue, He started to share his email when he realized I was not snooping, and I felt better for it too. It is so hard to respect anyone when they have done you wrong. Read give and take, it will amaze you how easy it is to respect again. <BR> Now if she is still in the affair, why have you not gone to plan B?? You will never be able to heal with contact still there.

H.I.<P>What do you mean the fine line between Plan A /B? I'm only one month after d-day and about two weeks into Plan A, I'm assuming I should continue with Plan A for now. She is at least calling, emailing and coming by the house more all within the last two weeks. Not sure if these are good signs are not, but your right I do have to assume the A is still ongoing. She sure is nice to me now, but she also keeps a certain distance as well. Like she always says she is not sure what is going to happen. In other words, she is nice, but she wants to make sure I have doubt about the marriage. If she wanted to work it out in her mind, would she be saying these things???<P>GC

GDC,<P> I agree that Plan A is the way to go, but I've read on these boards that Dr. D's Tough love is similar to Plan B. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hi Infidelity (edited July 31, 2001).]

To me, it is sort of like letting go of a child. What is to determine when you trust your child at home alone, with the car...and what if they make a mistake...do we take everything in their life away, or do we teach and learn and move on. I know there are those out there that say it is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. We are adults, he/she had an A, they broke my trust, they destroyed my faith...right? But if you truly look at a fogged in WS, is there that much difference?Their path has been fogged over, they made bad choices (albeit very painful ones), they got mixed up with the wrong crowd, they are selfish, they think only of themselves...sounds like every teenager I have ever taught!! And yes, there are those teens that need tough love, change the locks, go to the shelter, get emergency family counselling (starting to see the parallels?). <P>As parents that have snooped will tell you, they often found (just like BS), that their fears were recognized. OMG!!...my child (WS) lied to me, they cheated, they stole, they drank, they did drugs, they stayed out all nite, they had sex...<P>So the challenge on whether to snoop, whether to let them find their way(with your gently guiding in Plan A or more sternly with Plan B), or give up on them, depends on each BS and their tolerance level. Would you give up on your own child? Why? How much would you put up with from them? What lengths would you go to in order to help your own child?<P>As HI said, you are only a victim if you see yourself that way. Maybe, you are the hero and dont know it yet. Maybe what you are doing isnt working so you need to fine tune the program. One thing I will tell you gdc, if you snoop, no matter what...you will find something! Its a self fulfilling prophecy...what you find may not be what you looked for, but you will find something!<P>*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you imagine.*<P>Trueheart

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hi Infidelity:<BR><B>GDC,<P><BR>You're only a victim if you choose to view it that way. Just assume that she is with the OM until you see signs of her turning her thoughts towards you. I think the fine line you're talking about is the one between Plan A/Plan B.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Thanks so much for the words HI & TH, I've never really thought about it but your right Trueheart, "If I snoop, I will find something, good or bad." I guess we as BS's always have that glimmer of hope that what we find is no more A and that is why we struggle with to snoop or not to snoop. I snoop last time she house sat and found nothing, but she found something....me snooping and that was a huge LB. My mother said something to me last night and I wanted to share it. She said GC, "I know there are things in my life that I don't want to ever know." She advised me to not snoop way before I did the videotape, but I did anyway and there is a part of me now that wishes I would have never had done it. My wife would still be in the house, maybe I would have found out some other way, but at least, I could have done Plan A with her here instead of some apt. with a divorced lady. I guess the only thing I have going for me is that I have the Ace in the hole (if I need it) Also, the divorced lady is divorced b/c her H had an A on her. Maybe she could be on my side, yea right. Anyway, thanks again HI and TH!<P>GC