How do you keep your spirit up when your in Plan A and your WS tells her best friend that she thinks she wants to re commit to the marriage, but is still unsure if she even wants to be married. How can I maintain Plan A when I sometimes feel like I am wasting my time. How can someone you thought loved you more than anyone in the world in the blink of an eye change your life like this. Am I alone in feeling like I am alone. Since November(DDay). I feel I have no home, no family, and I have been living a lie. I thought our life together was happy, and now I find out that not only was she not happy, but she found someone else who she though would make her happy. How can I deal with someone who would rather run away than try to fix the problem. She tells me she loves me, but some days it seems like she's so unhappy. I don't want to be the cause of anyone's unhappiness, let alone the person I love the most in this world. I know I am rambling, but that's what happens when you deal with someone who won't make up her mind and seems to want to avoid talking about "us". Why am I afraid to bring it up. What's the worst that could happen, that she'll leave. Sometimes it seems she already gone, and just going through the motions. Anyone have any answers or words of encouragement.

Mark,<P>Your situation is like my own, and I have been seperated from my wife since Novemeber. I have been doing Plan A now for around 3 weeks, before that it was more Plan D, angry outbursts and resentment!<P>I know it's tough, but there are people here that will help you through it. Just remember your wife chose to marry YOU out of thousands of other possible candidates. Even though she went to someone else to meet a certain EN when times were tough, she still married YOU and not anyone else.<P>If you can determine her most important EN that the OM is meeting, you could really work on that hard. You may think you are doing an excellent Plan A, but that's in your eyes. You might be totally failing to meet that EN now.<P>Have you spoken to Steve Harley yet? If not I really recommend you do. He understands the whole MB philosophy and I think he also probably knows certain character triats that are present in certain characters. Just talking about your life in general and the type of person you are, might highlight a certain trait that makes you neglect a certain EN. Give it a go, whats $100 for the most important person to ever step into your life?<P>Have a look at my post. I thought I was doing a good Plan A, keeping things tidy, not getting annoyed. etc. etc. But as you can see I missed meeting and important EN for my wife:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011530.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/011530.html</A> <P>I'll pray for you, and if you need to chat my email is:<P>plecostomous@hotmail.com<P>Take care,<P>Plec.

I don't know if this will help, but here goes... Have you examined the ways in which you talk about 'us'? My husband keeps saying he wants to 'be us' again. He doesn't seem to realize that I was miserable/lonely/feeling abandoned and neglected/etc during the time period he keeps referring to. I don't *want* to go back to 'being us'. Frankly it sucked as far as I was concerned. Maybe we can go forward, and learn to be a new type of us. But back/backward? No. So maybe the *way* that you're trying to talk to her is part of the problem. Is she very literal minded? Or more creative in the way she hears what you say? Will she ask you what you mean or will she just shut you out? Hope this at least gives you something to try... <P>------------------<BR>When we walk to the edge of all the light we have, and take that step into the darkness of the unknown, we must believe that one of two things will happen - there will be something there for us to stand on, or God will teach us how to fly.

Thanks for the advise, Plec, My nature is to "fix" too , so That is something I have not thought about. I will take that into consideration. The only EN she has mentioned is sexual, and she thinks she lost her attraction for me when I originally got sick, ( about a year prior to our wedding) She said she doesn't know how to get it back, that she went into a caretakers role for that period. I do believe I may have created an aversion when I did get well. I do think this is a major problem. I was stupid and made her feel that she was disappointing me when she was not "in the mood". I didn't do this intentionally and I certainly didn't mean to, but I think I did. I also think that I did not meet the Empathy EN. She was floundering in her career and I was trying to help her fix it instead of listening. I have apologized for those things and I did see a shrink myself. She turned out to be useless. Marissa, Thank You too, I sometimes think she does take things literally and I do not want to return to the way we were. I want to move forward and explained that in my letter. How do I approach this without making her want to run ?

Mark:<P>You aren't alone in feeling alone. I even told my W (WS) that I felt alone even when she was with me. <P>We are now trying to move forward after months of some of what you are going thru...not as long, though D-Day was in March.<P>I know this sounds hollow, but about all you can do is take it a day at a time. I know...hard to do when you want your world to make sense and you want your relationship to be better and DAMN IT--you want it now!<P>The best advice I got and that i can give is to be patient, continue trying to help your W thru her problems. I know it isn't fair and it is difficult when your pain is strong. But if it is your choice to continue with your relationhip then you have to be patient and give her time to get to where she can help herself, then you. <P>I read somewhere on this site taht withdrawal and recommitment takes much longer than the BS ever expected and many times much longer than they think they can endure and I know that is true. <P>All we can do is the best that we can...a day at a time.<P>But you are not alone and your feelings are normal...just not very pleasant. <P>Good luck <P>E <P>------------------<BR>Lord give me patience, and give it to me NOW!

Just by virtue of you being the BS, this may be difficult, but you may need to give her a little bit more space than you are comfortable with. Obviously you are entitled to your feelings of distrust/concern/anxiety but directing these feelings at her may be scaring her off a bit. My husband is trying to get closer to me and open the lines of communication more, but some days I just feel stifled, like he's smothering me. Rather than leaving, I chose to stay and try. My fog/confusion isn't even related to the OM anymore. It's all about trying to figure out whether to stay or go for my *own* best interests. I hated my marriage. Is it worth all the effort to try to fix it? Especially since the affair showed me that there are possibly other people who might be a better match for me. Dealing with my own guilt over my actions. Am I worth his effort? Why is he even bothering? There's a lot going on in my head, and sometimes I just need to be left alone to try to let some of the dust settle. Leaving me alone is hard for my H though because my being alone is what started the trouble in the first place, and he feels that I'm pulling away again. I hope this helps...

Marissa, Thank You. It does help to know that. I think my W is feeling the same things and I have tried not to come on too strong. I have not brought anything up since our April discussion and I think she is trying to sort through this. I just need to vent my frustrations at times and keep my ego in check. I think you H is probably feeling a bit like me. We sometimes feel like we are fools for what we went through. But if he is like me that feeling comes and goes. Hang in there and try your best. I think we may not be perfect, but we can learn from our mistakes.

Mark, I am a male ws, and just stopped in to validate what marissa has said. There are ws here who are fully recommitted, but there are ws who are trying to do the "right" thing as far as being fair, but we are very confused and unsure about what we think the future holds. However, we are absolutely determined not to go back to the old marriage, it is gone, we don't want it, and anything that "feels" like that is where we are being pulled back into makes us uncomfortable, if not downright irritable, even crazy. I think there is a category of ws who are highly ethical, committed type people, who tried really hard in their marriages and finally gave up (for whatever reason). This psychological mindset made us (in hindsight) vulnerable to the attentions of op, and if the op was not a loser, but a decent individual themselves (all op are not defective, but can be someone just like us, in similar circumstances), then we "realize" (or at least think we do) how marriage can be....... and mostly it is about being safe. Too many bs focus on thinking it is about lust, self-esteem, etc. etc..... it isn't always. My w is very unhappy over the pa part of my a....... and can't understand how I could do such a thing (married 23 years), she talks in terms of lust. I have tried to explain to her had nothing to do with sex, was all about intimacy, and simply the physical manifestation of a deep emotional bond that formed first with ow. <P>The A is now over, but the feelings live on in the hearts of myself and ow, as we (she is going to try to do the right thing too) try to make ourselves available to the reconcilliation process. But in some sense it feels we are in the wrong place, no longer belong with you. It is confusing and difficult for us, and will take time to understand who we are and what we want. We are torn between what our minds tell us (we too were indoctrinated with the ideas of vows, and forever, and duty and we feel guilt and remorse over your pain, we are not bad people), and what our hearts tell us. Some people can/will do duty (sacrificial) marriage, they will stay together just because the cultural pressure not to is so high, because they cannot find any "reason" to divorce, and feel being fulfilled is a selfish act. Others will find they must follow their heart, and if they are not passionate about spouse, then it must end, people should not live in an intimate relationship that is not passionate, why do it? This is the dilemma for people like marissa, myself, maybe your wife, and other ws who are ethical people, but find that passion is needed as much as the air we breathe.<P>There are many arguments here about the need for passion, or even what that means (not talking about lust). I think it is a realization that someone else completes you, BUT not only completes you, they feel you complete them, must work both ways or is no good. You cannot imagine life, a day, even a minute, without them in your life....not for what they do for you, but because you want to do for them. It is sort of like imagining life with half your body gone, 1 arm, 1 leg, 1 side of brain. This is hard to put into words, or hard to explain to someone who has never experienced it (and those people usually say it doesn't exist), but it is very real, and very powerful. <P>My w wants that with her, and it is only fair we give this a chance, but if we don't find this I don't know what to do, don't know if I can live the rest of my life in a comfortable, tolerable marriage, one that is supportive, even fun on occassion, but passionateless (sort of like being married to a beloved sister), or just admit this is not a marriage, just a comfortable lifestyle, and that I should just live alone..... maybe finding the passion with another, or risking being alone rest of my life. These may be some of the emotions you are feeling from your w, maybe not.

Mark H - I am wife of Sad_n_lonely. I feel like you do, this is so hard to deal with. Yes, I am lonely, H continues to talk about the OW all the time. All that he gave to her, the connection they had, the one-flesh, I found papers that he wrote and said they were one-flesh, they were spiritually married, and I a paper wife. How he loves her, never loved me from day 1, how he will never love me, and she is the only one he will love. Yes, I feel I don't have a home, just a place to live, a place to interact with our kids (age 15-22), (4 in all), a place to see the interaction of kids, animals, and keep things running and try to organize while H is still thinking what he wants to do. This is no fun, it is h*ll. <P>I found out for sure about the affair in Feb. 2001. H said it was only EA. But a week ago I found out it was a PA too. He feels to remorse no guilt no nothing. I actually feel that there is no feelings about the hurt it has caused me. He states that he is sorry he hurt me and I didn't deserve it. I didn't make him get in bed with her, I didn't make him take her clothes off, I didn't make him have sex with her. I didn't make him have intimacy towards her, or feelings towards her. Yes it hurts big time!<P>I am in Plan A. It is hard to do. Sometimes I feel like running away. But I am committed to Plan A. The problem I have is having anyone to talk to about the PA. This hurt so bad! I am one to converse with people about problems. H doesn't want anyone to know it was a PA. I can't talk to my best friends about it. I am talking to Orchid on the phone. She has some good info to contemplate. But I would like one to cry to about this, to put my head on their shoulders and cry my heart out. I am done crying about it to my H, doesn't do any good. Just makes him crazy and pulled away, can see what it does to him. So I sit and go crazy inside. <P>Yes the BS is the one who gets hurt the worst. H got the book after the affair, and states in book the BS feel the pain the worst. Yes, WS, they still have the memories in their head of all they had with the OP. They tell how happy they were with OP. I don't want my H unhappy, I would actually like him to say if he really feels this way, that I don't think I will ever be happy with you and divorce. This is difficult to visiualize, but I would rather have him out of my life then to be unhappy with me. The WS holds all the cards, the BS sits and wait. Seems to be so unfair, this is what drives the BS to have an affair, to see what they feel, to feel love and all. Then the WS would see the balistic actions we have had to endure during the affair. <P>All I can say is to counsel with the Harleys. I look forward to my talk with Jennifer. This week got really screwed up on time, so was unable to talk, feel lost, feel hopeless and feel so unloved. Jennifer really has helped me get through some really bad times. She told my H and I on the phone, that she would of left my H a long time ago. He has been so thoughtless and uncaring towards me. Still is a bit. H is getting better. H still talks disrespectfully towards me, am bringing it up at the time to make him aware of his actions. Sometimes, he gets a little out of sorts, and sometimes he is OK. <P>They have wide mood swings. Would like H to get on anti-depressants. Have told him, about mood swings, and body language. He hits things more now, hits the top of the vehicles, hits the walls, not really hard, but just like he's trying to get anger out of him. He runs his hand through his hair, in an aggressive motion, there are things I have noticed that make me aware of his aggrevation. So yes, I am on eggshells sometimes. Only protecting myself, and kids. H wouldn't hurt anyone, just trying to prevent him from venting in an unloving way towards us. <P>One thing you have is your W tells you that she loves you. My H doesn't tell me that. He can't tell me that, cause he doesn't love me, only as a mother to his kids and for taking care of things around here. So you have a far better prognosis than most, I don't have those words to hear, enjoy them and look forward to hearing those words. This is a real good sign that she is willing to stay in your marriage and committed to you. Like H says, he doesn't want to get close to me, is afraid and feels unsafe. Enjoy what you get, sometimes the BS spouse feels like a dog, get any treat you can while it is here, one day the owner will leave and you will have to survive on your own, fetch your own garbage food, and find anyone to give you a pat on the head, and maybe find a good home to live in, or end up in a cement cell and euthanasia will be a gentle death.<P>Trying to be uplifting to you, but I think I might be depressing to you. Will leave, going for my long walk with the dog. Remember, your wife says she loves you, enjoy it and I think you have a good chance at a loving marriage.