A brief history:<BR>I am a BS, W's the WS. Definately an EA, probably a PA at some point (don't know and I don't care). Four months past d-day. W has never admitted the A. I've heard the usual from the WS script, "I'm not in love with you", "OM is just a friend", blah, blah, blah... W has talked about D ever since d-day, but hasn't taken any action. I don't want a D and won't help her with it. I have been plan A'ing since November. Contact with OM contiues, but I don't know to what degree or how often (I suspect daily since they work together, but who knows). I have worked very hard on me and have made significant changes in my behavior, no more angry outbursts, very few disrespectful judgements. Still working on "control" issues.<P>The bottom line is I have no options. W and I are still living together. Neither of us will leave because of possible divorce/custody repurcussions. I can't plan B or file for legal separation because we are living together. My only option is to continue to plan A. My fear is that I will plan A until there is no love left for my W. Every week I feel my love for her diminishing a little more. However, even as I feel my love diminishing, I don't feel a greater urge to LB, in fact quite the opposite. Maybe I just don't care enough anymore or am just too worn out to LB. Or maybe I've just gotten really good at avoiding them. I guess I'm in the same boat as many of you. Not much of a post, I know. It's late so I'm going to bed. Good night to all.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 30, 2001).]

((((sad dad))))<P>we're all here for you to vent or lean on. It is a hard road indeed. You are doing fine. Hold on to your love. Remember all the reasons you fell in love, and find the littlest things now that you are thankful for in her. Try to fill some EN's best you can. Find some little, teeny, tiny ways to fill her needs - conversation, admiration, etc. <P>I'm thinkin about ya and praying....

Faith1,<P>Good to hear from you! Thanks for the encouragement. W and I are actually doing some things together this weekend. Saturday her cousin is getting married and Sunday her uncle is having a family BBQ. Should be uncomfortable, but may be good for us to spend some time together doing something other than watching TV. There is a Labor Day festival in the area and I asked W if she wanted to take our daughter there tonight so she could go to the carnival. She didn't give me an answer, but I threw it out there for her. If she doesn't want to go, I'll take my daughter anyway.<P>Something funny. Last night my W was trying some new clothes on our daughter. I decided to go to the grocery store and run a few errands. My daughter wanted to come with me. I told her no, just stay with Mommy and try on your clothes. She started screaming "Daddy don't go, I don't want to stay with Mommy, I want to go with you."<BR>This went on for a few minutes. As I was walking out the door my W said "what, do you brainwash her when I'm not around"...I think she was joking, but I didn't respond. As bad as this may sound, it felt good.<P>sad dad

sad dad:<P>I've been following your posts and it seems that our timelines, if not our stories, are somewhat similar. I guess a lot of these stories are similar. It's been 5 months since d-day now and I've been following Plan A or something similar at least 4 months. The first few weeks were incredibly tough. The counselor that I started going to immediately was of no use. My wife and I did not get anywhere, in fact our relationship may have regressed if that is possible.<P>We've been counseling with Steve Harley for a while now. If nothing else, Steve's approach has helped communication between my wife and I. The EN and LB questionnaires were important mostly because I felt my wife had to talk with me and tell me about how she was not being satisfied in the marriage. At the 5 month point there is no intimacy and she continues to tell me that she doesn't love me like she loved OM, but at least there is less stress in the household and among our children and I have some idea of how she needs to be satisfied (when she actually tells me).<P>Unfortunately this doesn't mean that it will work out. My wife is very guarded right now and scared. She is more focused on the bad that could happen rather than the incredibly good things that could happen. I see success depending a lot on the effort that I put into things and how much patience I have. And I do mean a lot of patience. If you can afford it, I would recommend that you give counseling with Steve or Jennifer a try. At least in this way you will feel that you have tried all possibilities and feel like you've done all you can to explore and learn about yourself as well as your W.<P>I think my kids recognize the efforts that I'm putting into the family and marriage and I think that in itself will be a good lesson for them down the road. <P>Maybe, someday, you and I will receive these b-day and anniversary gifts from our WS that people are describing in other threads and we will know that they were given as a sign of admiration, respect, and love. I miss the woman I married.<P>Now let's all join hands around the campfire and sing Kumbya. After that...open the windows and crank the stereo. It's the weekend!!!!!!! And three days at that!!! Let's celebrate by not laboring!!! <BR>SG

sad dad- I dont know if this will help you but I know that after H moved back home and refused to work on our marriage for the same reasons ( custody) over time I gradually began to emotionally detach from him and consequently the way he was treating me and what he said hurt me less and less as time went on.This will probably happen to you if nothing else changes about your situation. Its sad to say the least- but emotionally necessary I believe to you. Why not plan A YOURSELF for awhile? Thats what I learned to do- I started doing daily things that I ENJOYED regardless of what was going on in my marital nightmare. I quit worrying about him him him! That was healthy in my opinion. Take care- lifeismessy

sprayerguy,<P>I started counseling with Steve Harley myself a couple of months ago. I've had 3 sessions with him and will be making an appointment for the week afer next. Things at home aren't really stressful. We get along fine, but are at a stalemate. I wish my W would just admit the A so we could stop tip-toeing around the subject. An analogy my sister made was that there's an elephant in the room but no one is talking about. I don't bring it up because I don't want to LB, and she doesn't bring it up, well.... for obvious reasons. <P>By the way, what does "sprayerguy" mean?<P><BR>lim,<P>My W isn't treating me badly, just not like a W. I am detaching emotionally, maybe that's good. I haven't cried about this in over a month. I try to keep busy, spend ALOT of time with our daughter. I try to give her space without ignoring her. Some nights we'll watch TV together and talk a little, general stuff. Other nights, I'll watch TV by myself, go for a drive, go to the store, whatever just to get out of the house.<P>sad dad <P>

sad dad:<P>I understand your concern about the under enthusiastic movements from your W. My W did admit to the affair (after I found a letter). She said she was sorry for what she did but that she doens't regret it. She refuses to show any affection or admiration to this day and during our 'homework' EN feedback sessions, she entirely skips how she will plan to meet my no. 1 need (yes, it turned out to be SF). Steve has told me to back off this issue and not even bring it up (you know, there are lots of opportunities for puns here )<P>By the way, my handle or name comes from my job and research program related to horticultural crop pest management and production. This is a fancy way of saying that I work a lot with chemical spray equipment.<BR>SG

sg,<P>At least your W is showing some interest in rebuilding the marriage, although it may be half-hearted and insincere. My W has said nothing about working on the marriage. Every few weeks we have another "divorce" talk, but nothing ever happens. I wish she would sh*t or get off the pot. They say action (or in this case, inaction) speaks louder than words, and she hasn't filed or left yet. Steve seems to think that may indicate my plan A is having some affect. His advice was to continue what I'm doing and shower my daughter with love and attention. My W will notice the bond we have. I guess her comment yesterday is an indication she has.<P>sad dad <BR><p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited August 31, 2001).]

Sad Dad and Sprayerguy<P>I like to read your topics because it seems that we are in the same boat. My W is in EA and maybe more. She works with OM. She said they are just friends. Someone to talk to. <P>You wrote someting that I agree with. My d-day was April 6th. As time goes by(weeks) it seems that I lose a little bit more (love) about my W. I take a lot of crap that my W gives out. I don't know if that's good or bad, but I don't hurt as much. I guess when you take all of the fog abuse that the WS gives, you get use to it.<P>I don't LB as much because either I don't care, I can't stop it or I'm just too damm tired of all the crap. Maybe a little of all of the above. <P>Take care and have a good weekend.<P><BR>

Dino09,<P>Noticed your from Lincolnwood. I live in near Schaumburg. Maybe we'll have to get together for a beer and exchange war stories.<P>sad dad

Ive been thru what yall are going thru with my W/S. I finally got to the point I couldnt take it any more or I couldnt take it any more. I will tell you your heart has a door to it and there comes a point where that door finally closes. Its not that you dont care nor that not heartbroken. It just gets to the point where you say I cant take it anymore. I deserve better than this. The hardest decision Ive ever made was the decision to file for divorce. I recommend each of you take whatever steps you need to discover what the truth is. Sometimes we think its only an EA because that is what we want to believe. I hired a PI caught them together; I rationalized its only an EA because thats what I wanted to believe. Got the cell phonebills 67 calls in one month-still wouldnt believe any more than EA. I have lots of other circumstantial evidence. She still denied anything-just friends. I finally tapped my own phone in the house and got irrefutable proof. Did it hurt-hell yes. But at the same time it set me free to make a decission. Seek the truth and the truth shall set you free. BS's cant think like the W/S's. I tried but couldnt. If any of you want ideas on catching the W/s email me I will tell you all the tricks you need to know. A word of caution, if what you suspect is true your search for the truth can result in one hell of a heartbreak. Donot feel guilty. as I did, in snooping and gathering information. You are not the one in the wrong. The W/s didnt have to do what they did. Whatever was missing in your marriage doesnt justify what they did. You have a right to know the truth. Your w/s will deny everything until you get concrete evidence. Truth is information; information is knowledge: knowledge is power. Take control of yourself. You need to look out for yourself and kids if you have them. An emotional affair is still an affair. Did your W/S divorce you emotionally a long time ago?

Austin,<P>I am well aware that my W's EA probably became a PA at some point, but I don't dwell on it because I don't know it for a fact. Besides, in my opinion an EA is much more damaging and harder to escape from than a PA.<P>Yes, my W did divorce me emotionally a long time ago.<P>Last night, my W asked me if I knew where her stock certificates were, she looked for them but couldn't find them. I don't know where they are. I think she's planning to cash some in for a retainer. Just speculation on my part, but the only reason I can see that she would be looking for them. I didn't ask her why she was looking for them. Maybe I was afraid of the answer or didn't think she would tell me the truth anyway. <P>sad dad<BR>