Hi all,<P>I've been contemplating separating with my W. D-day was 4/30 and she has never admitted A (EA, probably PA). I have plan A'd since and she has shown no signs of wanting to work on marriage and contact with OM is continuing, although I don't know to what degree or frequency. She has brought up D several times but has yet to take action (typical fence-sitting). D hasn't been mentioned in about 7 weeks. Lately we are talking alot more and spending more time together, but are nowhere near reconciling. I'm slightly encouraged, but being cautious. <P>I believe a separation is the best thing for both of us, at least for me. The stalemate is getting tiring and I'm considering giving her the following letter:<P>Dear <W>,<P>Several weeks ago you sent me an email saying that our situation is not healthy. I couldn't agree more. We've both made our share of mistakes and they've lead to a lot of pain for both of us. I never want to repeat those mistakes or experience this kind of pain again. I truly believe that with hard work and commitment, we can rebuild our marriage into something better than it ever was. I realize you don't share those beliefs, but I don't think we should throw in the towel without doing everything we can. However, something has to change. I am suggesting a separation, a real separation with written agreements made concerning <daughter>, division of finances and living arrangements. I have some ideas about these issues that we can discuss when necessary.<P>Being away from each other may give us a chance to take a step back from our situation and gain some peace and perspective. It will give both of us and <daughter> a glimpse of what our lives will be like should we divorce. Neither of us knows what it will be like or how it will affect <daughter>, but it's a reality we may have to face eventually anyway. It will gives us a chance to move on with our lives without closing the door on our marriage. We may find in time that we want to give our marriage another chance, but if not at least we'll know what to expect. I can't speak for you, but this is something I feel is necessary for my own emotional well being. <P>Love,<BR><H><P>As I said, things seem to be getting better, but maybe I'm fooling myself. Any opinions?<P>sad dad<BR>

sad - I follow your logic, and your letter is sincere, but I suggest you to make it a real, prospective Plan B letter - this means confronting the affair and describing your pain caused by it.<P>I know you work with Steve, have you discussed this with him?<P>WAT

WAT,<P>This isn't intended to be a plan B letter. Just a letter expressing my unhappiness with this stalemate and the need for something to change. Is there such a thing as a pre-plan B letter? I think you are right that I may need to be more direct in stating what I want and my reasons. I have an appt with Steve on Monday. <P>sad dad <P>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited September 19, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited September 19, 2001).]

So the separation won't be plan b style?<BR>You'll continue the plan a?<P>I think this letter is great. No LB's. Non-threatening.<BR>Heartfelt. <P>Good luck SadDad.<P>

Lexxxy,<P>Thanks for your reply. First of all, I doubt my W will agree to a separation if it means her leaving, but the financial reality is that she cannot afford the mortgage on her own and I can. Besides the fact the she's having/had an A, she wants a D and she hasn't shown any desire to work on the marriage, I'm not going to leave my house, rent an apartment AND help her pay the mortgage.<P>However, if she does agree to separate, I'm not sure going to plan B right away is the best thing. I think plan A'ing<BR>but distancing myself and letting her deal with whatever arises on her own. I don't know, I'll turn to the experts and to Steve for advice if/when this happens. A hardline plan B is difficult with young children and I'm not really sure what the current status of A is. <P>sad dad

<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited September 19, 2001).]

double post<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited September 19, 2001).]

I think its a great letter. I can tell you spent alot of time thinking how to word it in a way that is not criticizing yet spelling out what needs to be done. Good luck! lifeismessy

lim,<P>Thanks! I can always count on you for advice and encouragment. It's greatly appreciated.<P>I'm ready to take this step. I've got to prepare myself mentally and emotionally for life without my W. Hopefully it won't come to that, but the choice is hers and I accept that. I've done all that I can. Any changes that need to happen now are hers. I'm not responsible for her happiness and neither is OM, she's got to be happy being her. <P>I'm letting her go. I never thought I would be saying that.<P>sad dad

What if you just wait a few more days and see what Steve suggests?<P>It seems like you are way too conflicted about the living arrangements, about the finances, about your daughter's well-being and there are too many unanswered questions. It's like you want to put her out, but then again, you don't. Sounds like you are frustrated that things are not moving along within your timeframe.<P>I'm sorry for not paying closer attention, but since you guys have been spending more time together talking, wouldn't it be great if you could bring up this subject in person?<P>What if you discussed with your daughter in detail? Is she old enough to give her opinion. I'm sure it's obvious to her that mom and dad are not getting along great... Just a thought?

BTDT,<P>"What if you just wait a few more days and see what Steve suggests?"<P>I intend to talk to Steve before I do anything.<P>"It seems like you are way too conflicted about the living arrangements, about the finances, about your daughter's well-being and there are too many unanswered questions."<P>I'm not conflicted at all. I've given much thought to each of these issues, I just didn't want to go into detail in a letter. Regarding living arrangements and finances, I can afford the mortgage, utilities, my car payment and half of our common bills on my income, therefore I would stay in the house. It's the only way financially it's feasible. Also, her parents have more than enough room for her and our daughter. <P>As far as our daughter is concerned, it would have to be 50/50 shared custody while we are separated. That's the only way we can both protect ourselves in future custody issues if we divorce. Separating will affect our daughter, as will divorce. I'm suggesting a way to see what that affect will be before we divorce. <BR> <BR>"It's like you want to put her out, but then again, you don't. Sounds like you are frustrated that things are not moving along within your timeframe."<P>I am frustrated. This estrangement between us has been going on since last November. I learned of the A in March. That's a long time without any effort on her part to work on the marriage. I want nothing more than to save our marriage, but it requires both of us to do that.<P>"...but since you guys have been spending more time together talking, wouldn't it be great if you could bring up this subject in person?"<P>I may do that. I just only wrote the letter to get my thoughts together. Sometimes when we've talked about "us", the conversation tends to go in other directions and I don't say what I need to in the way I want to. I may still give her the letter, but have her read it in front of me.<P>"What if you discussed with your daughter in detail? Is she old enough to give her opinion."<P>Our daughter's only 3.<P>I intentionally left details out of that letter because they are things that need to be discussed and negotiated. I didn't want to appear as if I already have a grand plan of how this needs to be done, although I know what is and isn't acceptable to me.<P>This isn't something I'm going to do in the next few days. I'll talk to Steve first and see if things really are getting better. Seems like they are, but I've got to be careful not to fool myself.<P>Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your concern and your reservations, but I've got take control of my life and stop waiting for her to make a decision because she won't. She's doing what's safe, nothing. If you get a chance, maybe you can look over some of my recent threads to get a better idea of the situation.<P>sad dad <p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited September 20, 2001).]

sad - by all means, talk to Steve before doing anything new.<P>I strongly recommend that you NOT move out to implement a separation. If you feel you must, get a legal separation established FIRST to cast in stone the reasons for the separation and the fact that you are not abandoning your family. This process in itself can raise the hair on the back of your wife's neck.<P>Re: Plan B. Have you demonstrated your improvements? I think you have. Is your love bank getting low? Based on the tone of your original post, I'd say "yes." So, there is NO REASON not to go to Plan B if you separate. I wish I had done it much sooner and when I finally did it, it may have been too late.<P>Please discuss this with Steve.<P>WAT<P>

{{{{{HUGS & SUPPORT & HEARTFELT PRAYERS TO YOU SD}}}}}

WAT,<P>I understand your point about plan B. My concern is that if we separate and I immediately go to plan B, it may appear that I only wanted the separation so that I could plan B.<BR>It may make my plan A efforts seem contrived, kind fo like "now that your gone, I want nothing to do with you", do you know what I mean? I know of many people on this board that have gone to plan B, but how many of them have reconciled with their WS? Seems the percentages are low, or maybe those who have reconciled aren't hanging around anymore.<P>I have no intention of moving out. Things are not unbearable at home, we get along surprisingly well. It's just not a marriage. I spoke to a lawyer about a legal separation. He said they're rarely done because the financial issues cannot be addressed until the D process is started. Hopefully, a separation agreement will address all the issues I've mentioned earlier. If my W won't agree to leave, I'll need to consider other options, but my primary concern will be protecting myself legally regarding my home, custody issues, finances, etc. If my only other option is filing for D, than that's what I may need to do.<P>sad dad<p>[This message has been edited by sad dad (edited September 20, 2001).]

just bumping up

Hi Sad,<BR>Very interesting to read your post. I`m almost in the same sitaution as you. My bomb was also dropped on me back in April. I have drafted my letter, but have agreed to meet with W in 12 days to discuss. <BR>I`m new to this board, but have been all over the internet gathered info and discussing with others. Maybe we could share our experiences?<BR>Difficult to give you any advice when my knowledge on your situation is very limited. Being in this mess and working on my different strategies I belive though, that you know when it`s time to change them. Reality is often very powerful. <BR>Take care.<P>Turn

turn,<P>Welcome to MB. I think you'll find this board a great source of encouragement, support and info. Please read as much as you can about MB. I've been here for about 3 months and have met some terrific people will to share their experiences and advice.<P>I'd be happy to share experiences with you. Let me know if there's a better way to contact you. <P>sad dad

sad dad,<P>Sorry to hear things haven't improved. I know the feeling. For us, OM is no longer around but my W feels no love or emotion any more. I would not write your letter in the manner you have because it seems to be forcing your W to take action and that doesn't work too well. I can't give much credible advice though since my situation has not improved. I don't have any success to report.<P>I'd be interested in reading about Steve's comments on your letter. So far, Steve isn't pushing me in this sort of direction. Maybe he is seeing more positive signs in our marriage than I am. Best of luck to you.<BR>SG<BR>

sg,<P>I'm not forcing my W to do anything. I'm simply stating that the current situation is not good for any of us and a change is necessary. She can choose to work with me on a separation agreement, file for D, work on our marriage or do nothing. She has chosen to do nothing for 5 months and to the best of my knowledge, OM is still in the picture. It's time for me to move on with my life, with or without her. It doesn't mean I'm giving up on my marriage, I'm just not going to wait for her to decide which direction my life takes. If she isn't ready to make a decision, that's fine.<BR>I am.<P>sad dad

sad dad,<BR>I think we should share some info and experience. You can contact me at Knutkov@hotmail.com. Look forward to hear from you.<BR>Turn