One of the 'problems' I have had with my H over the years is his 'sleeping' in our bed. For years I would get VERY upset and LB a lot...I would get distraught, yell, cry, etc.<P>EVERYONE in our family who has visited noticed this...my sisters both commented on it upon finding out about the A.<P>So, sometime ago...I quit yelling, crying, etc. in fact, I just let it go...would just say things in the a.m. like...my body missed you last night...I missed you...I don't sleep well w/ out you...<P>Then came his midnight forays on the computer...now I know to her...<P>It's like when he thought I didn't care...<P>So since d-day I have been 'following' him around the house at night...on the couch, on the floor, in the living room....some nights he eventually says that we should go upstairs to bed.<P>I AM TIRED. I HAVEN'T SLEPT SINCE D-DAY an entire night...I don't want him to think I don't care.<P>I have tried to negotiate that some nights we are upstairs...and he has sorta responded...<P>I have NOT LB'D ABOUT IT AT ALL. But wonder if my following him around is an LB...I know he doesn't 'like' me laying on him all the time...but it is such a trigger...I feel like when I QUIT bugging him about it about a year ago...it set into motion his A and gave him time and opportunity on the computer...<P>Any ideas?<P>Cali

Yup, up late on the computer...and very big warning sign I also "missed" and when I expressed my concern,was lied to. And my H also doesn't like me "laying" on him...and also felt like I didn't care.<P>Well, I did care but I stupidly beleived his lies. About 6 months after dday, I went to bed before him for the first time and he took it as a gift.Like a trusted him.He met his OW playing games online late at night.<P>But in my Hs defense, HE stopped the late nights games,he doesn't go where she may be.And we go to bed together at his instigation. I worried that he was getting up after I went to sleep.But I can check the PC and he hasn't.<BR>Maybe his body clock needs to change to accomodate yours.My H knows now, truthfully knew then too but didn't care, that alone time on the PC is dangerous for him,especially late at night.<BR>Does your H fully understand your position?

Hi Cali,<BR>I read this and then took a break because initially, I thought if YOU don't know, gosh, how can anyone else help you figure it out? But here's my shot:<P>Could it be that you snore really loudly and he's afraid to tell you? Do you snuggle too much and maybe he feels suffocated? Do you think he's turned off by your physical appearance or natural scent? Have you gained a significant amount of weight since you met? Do you guys have a small bed? Do you like a lot of covers and he doesn't? Do you perspire at night?<P>I have no idea? Not unless you really think he is still looking for opportunities to be on the computer late at night? Why would your being on the computer be a lovebuster? Could it be because HE wants to be on the computer?<P>Maybe it is a very simple reason but he is not telling you because he is afraid to hurt your feelings. OR perhaps he has told you in the past and you have ignored his reason or reworded it in your mind... Do you think you could have possibly just dismissed his reason altogether? Think back to the time when you would get angry and remember what he would offer you as his explanation. That's probably still his reason today???<P>Were his sleeping patterns this way back before your marriage? Or was there a sudden change?<P>Oh well, just trying to come up with every question that crossed my mind to help you try to figure this out.<p>[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]

Hi Cali,<P>As this is an issue, you need to discuss it with your H in honesty and come to a POJA...a reasonable bedtime for BOTH of you together...and it can all be done lovingly...I feel....when you want to stay up. Can we work this out?" <P>Hey he did the deed, he has to live with the fallout.<P>Love and light,<P>Jacky

wow - did you bring back some memories for me with this one.....<P>I always wanted my H to go to bed with me at the same time. I tried to POJA (before I ever knew these principals!) I did the same thing you did -- followed him around. Usually ended up falling asleep on the couch. Never felt like I got a good nights rest. (this was the first few years of our marriage)<P>I started becoming very resentful and disappointed about this. So I just went to bed alone when it suited me. Pretty soon we had divergent schedules. He just never realized the importance of this to me. (this was the middle years of our marriage)<P>Then -- we got the computer. I started staying up all night playing. Flirting, socializing, having fun. <P>Now H would wander past me at midnight and ask when I was coming to bed. What a switch.<BR>(this was the last 3 years of our marriage)<P>I met OM online. It went from flirting to phone calls in the middle of the night. It got to the point that I would play and chat with him until I was sure H was sleeping, then we'd get on the phone and talk for hours every night. We'd talk during the day too. That went on for months -- until we decided to meet.<P>If H and I had been able to work out an arrangement for going to bed together, I would never have had an affair.

Is he still on the computer at night? Do you honestly feel like he is working on the marriage or is he just throwing you crumbs here and there to satisfy you. Like he is doing what it takes to keep you dangeling wihtout totally committing to working on the marriage? <P>I would like to recommend 2 books: 1) boundaries in marriage by Henry Claude and John Townsend 2) Love must be Tough by James Dobson. <P>It sounds like before you were trying to get a reaction from him the wrong way (LB, yelling, crying, etc). Now it sounds as if you have tried a new way of trying to get a reaction from him (not LB, not yelling, saying sweet things). And thats not working either. Sometimes there is NO way to get a reaction. Maybe it is not about you doing it a certain way but rather about him and his issues. <P>I am sorry sometimes life is too complicated. I know, I hate it too. Just do what you can to take care of you. Sleep is VERY important, without it you can't think clearly. If necessary take a sleeping pill to get some rest. <P>Yes, I think following him around could be a LB. You want him to want to be around you not to be around you cause there is nowhere else in the house to go. I know I felt like a prisoner in my own home for awhile. I am BS. I never wanted my WS to go out without me so I wouldn't go out without him. That is no way to live.<P>Your doing great. Keep posting. keep trying new things. I'm sorry your here.

I haven't yet read the replies, but I wanted to let you know what I did.<P>I posted...waited a bit...no one seemed to be around so I went up to bed....and I prayed and asked God what I should do...<P>I fell asleep praying and sometime during the night H came to our bed...<P>Cali

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy:<BR><STRONG>If H and I had been able to work out an arrangement for going to bed together, I would never have had an affair.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do you <I>honestly</I> feel like this is true, Lexy?? Because that is how I feel about my wife and I. Ours is the same story as the one you guys have posted. She stayed up late, chatting, I had to get up early to work. She didn't work. She created a sense of honesty and openness with other men online and soon found that she couldn't even be honest and open with me. About anything. Eventually she met the OM online. They would chat until I fell asleep. Then talk on the phone. I would sense her return to the bed at 3am-4am. One night I picked up the phone, while she was in the other room and heard them talking. That was D-Day. It's been almost 4 months since then and she still maintains contact with him and cannot recreate the honesty and openness we once had.<P>My opinion on your question, Cali, about "following" him? I have mixed feelings. Part of me wants to say that you're right, and that your "following" him around is a display of concern and longing for companionship. But that is Betrayed Spouse-fog talk. (yep, we have a sort of fog, too)<BR>The truth is, that after D-Day, your spouse knows that you don't trust them. They know they don't deserve to be trusted. They also know that when you follow them around, and fall asleep near them when they are staying up late (wanting privacy) that you are keeping an eye on them. I know, I know, that's not REALLY what we're doing. I do it because I just want to be near her. I have a hard time falling asleep without her in bed with me. But it's also because I wasn't there when she fell in love with another man on our computer, at night, and that, darnit, I wasn't gonna make that mistake again. <P>You have to let go, and let them come to you. Prayer helps. It obviously did last night =) He came to bed. Even if it doesn't work and he never comes back - your constant following is going to make him feel smothered and might push him further away, rather than make him feel loved and appreciated, the way you think it should make him feel.<P>I know that this will lead us BSes to think that we are "enabling" them to do what they want, and continue the affair. Don't look at it that way. Even if you could stop the affair today (murder the OP??) would you? It would mean that your spouse never actually got to make the decision to come back to you. (SNL will love that) I don't know about you, but that would just not be good enough for me.<P>I'm going to start a new thread, though, specifically talking about why our spouses find it necessary to seek out the honesty and openness of online relationships in place of honest conversation with us.

GOdlyMan --<BR>I do believe that. Completely.<BR>Online was the only way I was susceptable to an affair.<P>Never in all my interactions with men (in "real" life) -- clients, co-workers, friends -- did I ever conduct myself in a fashion that would've made an affair possible. <P>I would never have gotten as close or intimate (verbally) with a man I knew in "real" life. H was always too close for that to happen. But somehow online, it did.<BR>I got very very close to him. We bonded and that relationship became more important to me than anything.<P>There are many times that I could've stopped it. But I felt justified -- because H didn't do so and so. I thought initially that my flirtations were harmless. It was just something that made me feel good. Then it became something that fed my self-esteem. It felt so great -- and powerful -- to have someone feel that way about me. The more involved I got with him, the more I fed my justifications -- started really focusing on all the things that had bothered me about my marriage. I had pounded my head against a wall for so long trying to get my needs met. For the first time it occured to me that I didn't have to. Here was OM, ready to do anything for me.<P>I don't want to hijack Cali's thread -- but I think going to bed at the same time is critical to a marriage. And no secret computer lives.

JPCallie,<BR> Can you clarify me on this? You WANT your H to be in your bed, or you dont'?<BR> 2 years ago I got my own bed. I was tired of going from bed to bed in the middle of the night because of [1} H's snoring (unbelievable--he is scheduled for a apnea sleep study tomorrow) [2] The babies disturbing his sleep [3] My insomnia disturbing his sleep.<BR> I was extremely tired from not getting any rest. BIG mistake!!! Now we've had numerous discussions on it and he said he was really hurt by it. Not that he could help the snoring. Now he sleeps with me in my/our bed. I use silicone earplugs which help tremendously. <BR> (funny story: we went to a wedding last Nov in Chgo and his snoring was so loud-I didn't have earplugs, I took the blanket and went into the bathroom to sleep in the tub!!! He couldnt' believe I did that, it was either that or check out and get my own room.....we are talking high decibles here and even the kids will say " I"m outta here".<BR> Turns out that really hurts his feelings, and he felt abandoned.<BR> I also wanted him to get checked out for the sleep apnea because I believe he does stop breathing at night. He also has leg spasms and gastric reflux which is all inclusive of sleep apnea symptoms.<BR> He didn't say anything at the time because he realized I needed to get some sleep. It drove us apart. <BR> I also noticed (in retrospect, of course) when he didn't want to discuss us or was avoiding me, he would watch the tv till late or stay on the computer till way late on ICQ or something. He knows I HATE the tv on at night. So, I think he would deliberatley put it on to drive me out. I don't like to go to sleep to it and I think it is inconsiderate. There is no tv in the bedroom we now use. I wont have it. I told him it upsets me because he spends more time watching the tv than he does talking to me. It is a big LB to me. So now, I ask him to come to bed and if he wants to finish a show he will (finish) but usually agrees to come to bed. We have agreed to have a time to talk when in bed and go through the day. ITs a great opportunity to communicate.<BR> The other day I was in a panic and found him not there at 5am....I had had a bad dream and just "knew" he was on the computer downstairs, so I went rushing down there, but I was wrong and he was in the bathroom just showering.<BR> My H also WANTS me to hang on him. I don't understand this part either. he likes attention but I always thought that was being too "needy". I have never wanted to appear "needy". guess we didn't communicate on a lot of areas. I'm real confused by this at times because I know he doesnt' like the way I look and then he says something like that he confuses me? Why? so he can ridicule me? So he can point out my defects? He has done an excellent job at that. Now when he encourages me and gives me a compliment of sorts, I take it with a grain of salt and have a tendency to not believe him. He has been so hurtful in the past. I would not have said to my worst enemy some of the things he has said to me.<P>Like you, my H thought I didn't care. I was only trying to get some much needed rest so I could deal with the rest of my life.<BR> So, why is he doing it to avoid you? Ask him to negotiate. Maybe agree to shut computer down by such and such a time or the TV, or whatever it is that is keeping him away and find the reason for the avoidance and deal with that.<BR>Mikkey

Cali,<BR>Not sure if I totally "get" what you are saying here, but I will tell my story anyways.<P>My H is a BIG guy....really big. He's almost 300 lbs. (he carries it well, REALLY! No one ever thinks he's over 225). So when we are in bed together, HIS side dips down really low. That creates a "tilt" in the bed, and makes my (bad) back ache. I've tried to explain it to him, that that's why I sleep waaaay over to the other side of the bed, but he always took it as total rejection. He always wanted to hold me close, but I couldn't get any sleep that way. I always felt like I was sleeping on a slide, or a rocking boat, or something, and couldn't rest completely.<P>That's all I wanted to say. Maybe there's a "physical" thing going on in your bed? <B>Do </B> you snore? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Or could there be something else? Do you thrash around and smack him, or kick him in your sleep or something? Just my thots....<P>Lupo

Okay--H says it started as a control thing...I don't remember when it really started...in my head it was after we got married...<P>in his head it was right away when we were living together...<P>I remember sleeping wrapped up in each other's arms...don't remember when that stopped...but I think it was when he started working a job kinda far away and he didn't always come home...I got used to sleeping alone again and we didn't have air conditioning and I don't like getting hot...<P>He likes watching TV and it putting him asleep...I HATE SLEEPING WITH THE TV ON...whatever's on TV incorporates into my dreams (and I've had some wild ones [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img])...<P>He can snore like a chain saw...which sometimes gets on my nerves if I'm having an insomniac moment...he says that I have a little cute snore...but sometimes do talk in my sleep...<P>Yeah...I have gained weight since we got married...about 60 lbs...I have 20 1bs. to go and I will weight what I weighed when we got married....<P>The last time we talked about it he said that he was an adult and he would go to bed when he wanted...<P>Look...he's tired all the time...he can't get up in the morning...he's a procrastinator...I just thing better sleeping habits would help...and it would help our kids who are starting to develop his 'night owl' tendancies...<P>Cali

Hey Cali,<BR>I can see where all of those answers you provided could be huge factors.<P>With us, I'm more of a night owl and my H is not a late bird. Different circadian rhythms, plus I'm a night shift person, so I know I'm living in a different world altogether...<P>It gets back to the good old POJA. If he knows and you know what each other's buttons are, you go out of your way not to push them.<P>I think that is soooo blessed about your prayer and how God came through for you. That is awesome. I think that God does not want us to be miserable, He just wants to be first in our lives. HE wants all of our trust. All of it. When we take care of that vertical relationship, He smooths out the horizontal ones. It's really true... THANKS for your insights! I'm praying for you. STAY STRONG GIRL! & congrats on the weight loss! Wow!