As a psychology major myself I really enjoy this site as I feel it is the best on the internet relating to marriage and relationships. I'm 37 years of age and some time ago I had the opportunity to do some 12 step method work with AA and really enjoy working with and helping people. But there is one area that I see not covered much and how to deal with this when it arises, this area pertains to a person with weak characteristics & morals.<BR> Usually like Dr. Harley states; a spouse has an affair with someone who is giving them something that is missing in the relationship/marriage. This is a good concept and tool to use to help get the r/m back on track when trying to find out what is missing in the r/m. But what if there isn't anything missing (Drastic) as we hear about from time to time? You see sometimes we end up in relationships with people lacking good character/morals and in the beginning of the relationship these (I call them PLAYERS) individuals are the greatest acters/actresses you will meet. Eventually the dirty laundry comes out in the wash! Meaning they will eventually get caught as it could be a matter of days, months or years but the truth comes out.<P>So I would like to point out that sometimes it's not that a person is not trying or not giving another person something that they need, it's just simply that the other person lacks good character or morals. Dr. Barbara De Angelis states when a person is lacking these sometimes you just have to "remember them for who they really are". This helps a person to accept the situation and move on. Alot of times we beat ourselves up after our spouse/partner betrays us. To help get through this remember what they actually did and don't keep hanging on to their "POTENTIAL". This obviously would be the last step after Dr. Harley's methods.<BR>Remember: If It Looks Like a Duck, Walks Like a Duck and Sounds Like a Duck. IT'S PROBABLY A DUCK!<p>[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Tomstocks ]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tomstocks:<BR><STRONG>Dr. Barbara De Angelis states when a person is lacking these sometimes you just have to "remember them for who they really are". This helps a person to accept the situation and move on. Alot of times we beat ourselves up after our spouse/partner betrays us. To help get through this remember what they actually did and don't keep hanging on to their "POTENTIAL". This obviously would be the last step after Dr. Hawley's methods.<P>Remember: If It Looks Like a Duck, Walks Like a Duck and Sounds Like a Duck. IT'S PROBABLY A DUCK!</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Tom,<P>I have been trying to accept this in my situation. I have always thought about my H's potential instead of looking at the things he has done or hasn't done. When you care deeply for someone and have been with them for more than half your life, it's so hard to see them as their "deeds" as opposed to their soul or potential. <P>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><STRONG><P>Tom,<P>I have been trying to accept this in my situation. I have always thought about my H's potential instead of looking at the things he has done or hasn't done. When you care deeply for someone and have been with them for more than half your life, it's so hard to see them as their "deeds" as opposed to their soul or potential. <P>Jo</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>JO, <BR> I too am guilty of this as I believe in trying to work things out as I have given my recent relationship 6 or 7 chances. I was involved with someone who is and can be a great person, someone that I would love to spend the rest of my life with. We are unbelievably compatible! But her lifestyle and partying that she continues to do since she was 18 is not what I want or need in my life. I'm 37 she's 33, being the person that I am (very deep & understanding) I tried to work things out with her. I see such a good hearted and careing person with many nice personable qualities. She would be nice to be friends with and have fun but when it comes to marriage and family she cannot get away from her lifestyle and addiction. I thought she would grow up and want to better her life but no. You see I was hanging on to her potential and not reality. She would constantly betray me in many ways as she had no honesty and loyalty. I ended it by just looking at her actions, not her words because she writes letters and poems but as they say talk is cheap and believe me this was extremely hard as I'm still in pain but its for the best. I realized I can't love a person's potential and I really tried to give her a chance but eventually we have to do what is best for our own self being, as one can't beat a dead horse. <P>Good Luck Jo and God Bless!

Wow Tom, I am so sorry.<P>But you need to know something, you are doing what is best for both of you and you are doing it before you have given 1/2 your life up to someone that won't make a good marriage partner or parent for your babies. <P>I know how hard it is, loving someone and letting go of them is like having to cut off your arm, and even then you can still feel them with you in almost everything you do. <P>My H is an artistic man and would always write me poems and love letters, it's gut wrenching to read them now. But those words of his didn't match his actions. His actions were very hurtful and destructive. He wronged me and us in many ways and I kept trying and forgiving .. well some of the things I just couldn't forgive no matter how hard I tried. But regardless, he kept the same destructive path.<P>It sounds like what you are doing is right. You will find someone and fall in love again, Tom. Just give yourself all the time you need. <P>Thank you again for this thread, it's posting is timely for me.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Tom,<P>You hit on an issue that was key in my willingness to stay in my marriage. I found that my H was having an EA with an old girlfriend on the internet. My first reaction was that I did not have any interest in staying with a man of low character who could not [or would not] control himself. I immediately made arrangements to dissolve the marriage, telling him that the marriage was over - period. He begged me let him stay and prove himself so I eventually relented. <P>I have discovered another very important part of character, and that is HOW a person ACTS when faced with their immoral acts. In my situation, my WS was extremely remorseful and ashamed. He had not done anything like this in the past. I am not trying to make excuses for him, but I decided to try and give him a chance. I am glad I did. It has now been a year and he has been an extremely loving, devoted husband and has been scrupulously honest with me. I know that he has not done anything out of line in that year because I have checked up on his computer activity all this time. <P>Now, if my H was not remorseful and committed to change then I would not waste my time. I would know then that he saw nothing wrong with adultery and dishonesty and I would never be safe with such a person. Nor could I LOVE a person with such a low character. I would never be willing to sacrifice my sanity or happiness for such a person. If my H ever did this again, it would be the end of our marriage without question.<P>SO, I do believe that people can change and some people, depending on thier subsequent actions, do deserve a second chance.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MelodyLane:<BR><STRONG>Tom,<P>You hit on an issue that was key in my willingness to stay in my marriage. I found that my H was having an EA with an old girlfriend on the internet. My first reaction was that I did not have any interest in staying with a man of low character who could not [or would not] control himself. I immediately made arrangements to dissolve the marriage, telling him that the marriage was over - period. He begged me let him stay and prove himself so I eventually relented. <P>I have discovered another very important part of character, and that is HOW a person ACTS when faced with their immoral acts. In my situation, my WS was extremely remorseful and ashamed. He had not done anything like this in the past. I am not trying to make excuses for him, but I decided to try and give him a chance. I am glad I did. It has now been a year and he has been an extremely loving, devoted husband and has been scrupulously honest with me. I know that he has not done anything out of line in that year because I have checked up on his computer activity all this time. <P>Now, if my H was not remorseful and committed to change then I would not waste my time. I would know then that he saw nothing wrong with adultery and dishonesty and I would never be safe with such a person. Nor could I LOVE a person with such a low character. I would never be willing to sacrifice my sanity or happiness for such a person. If my H ever did this again, it would be the end of our marriage without question.<P>SO, I do believe that people can change and some people, depending on thier subsequent actions, do deserve a second chance.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am glad to hear this. It's great to see a couple work things out. I agree with you that some people can change but I believe a person has to have it in his/her character in order to make a change. The characteristic one needs for change is personal growth and without it I notice change is impossible. One has to want to change in order to change and yet most people are in denial and dont feel a chnge is necessary.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><STRONG>Wow Tom, I am so sorry.<P>But you need to know something, you are doing what is best for both of you and you are doing it before you have given 1/2 your life up to someone that won't make a good marriage partner or parent for your babies. <P>I know how hard it is, loving someone and letting go of them is like having to cut off your arm, and even then you can still feel them with you in almost everything you do. <P>My H is an artistic man and would always write me poems and love letters, it's gut wrenching to read them now. But those words of his didn't match his actions. His actions were very hurtful and destructive. He wronged me and us in many ways and I kept trying and forgiving .. well some of the things I just couldn't forgive no matter how hard I tried. But regardless, he kept the same destructive path.<P>It sounds like what you are doing is right. You will find someone and fall in love again, Tom. Just give yourself all the time you need. <P>Thank you again for this thread, it's posting is timely for me.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<P>[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Resilient ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Tom,<P>Haven't you ever met someone and instantly felt a connection? I hadn't until over a year ago. I hate to think the relationship with the OP is immoral (sp) it could be I guess. Let me explain.....I worked with a man who had everything, he is very tall, nice looking, a professional and had a great sense of humor. The perfect catch. Right? Wrong! He made many passes at me which I ignored.. I ignored him because he was married. I was very flattered about the attention he was giving me, but I never let him know that. And then before long I got a promotion in my job and left that position. Well in my new position another man comes along and I just can't explain what happened. It was like we were meant to be together. He is very UNhappily married. He is staying that way because of reasons that I understand. Anyway, he told me she was depressed and there was just no relationship between them.I do have access to records that prove she is depressed and also because of the way he relates to me I can tell he has feelings for me. What I am trying to say is...I don't think our being together has anything to do with lack of morals.. Sometimes I just think people are meant to be together. Just like in your case with your xgf. If you two were meant to be together then you wouldn't be able to give her up. You would accept her the way she is. You wouldn't be able to live without her. Please try to understand, I am trying to understand myself. I don't mind if you are blunt. I want to know. Maybe I am a selfish cruel person and am just confused that I can't see the forset for the trees. If marriages are mistakes and the right person comes along, then what is wrong with that?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spiro:<BR><STRONG><P>Tom,<P>Haven't you ever met someone and instantly felt a connection? I hadn't until over a year ago. I hate to think the relationship with the OP is immoral (sp) it could be I guess. Let me explain.....I worked with a man who had everything, he is very tall, nice looking, a professional and had a great sense of humor. The perfect catch. Right? Wrong! He made many passes at me which I ignored.. I ignored him because he was married. I was very flattered about the attention he was giving me, but I never let him know that. And then before long I got a promotion in my job and left that position. Well in my new position another man comes along and I just can't explain what happened. It was like we were meant to be together. He is very UNhappily married. He is staying that way because of reasons that I understand. Anyway, he told me she was depressed and there was just no relationship between them.I do have access to records that prove she is depressed and also because of the way he relates to me I can tell he has feelings for me. What I am trying to say is...I don't think our being together has anything to do with lack of morals.. Sometimes I just think people are meant to be together. Just like in your case with your xgf. If you two were meant to be together then you wouldn't be able to give her up. You would accept her the way she is. You wouldn't be able to live without her. Please try to understand, I am trying to understand myself. I don't mind if you are blunt. I want to know. Maybe I am a selfish cruel person and am just confused that I can't see the forset for the trees. If marriages are mistakes and the right person comes along, then what is wrong with that?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Spiro,<P><BR>Sorry to say but you're headed for a big hurt. I'm sure this man means the world to you but if this man won't leave an unhappy marriage for you then you ain't worth much to him. JMHO. How long before you want more?<BR>That's when the hurt is going to happen. <P>You should of took the first married man, at least he wanted you.<P>who

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whothehellisshe:<BR><STRONG><P>Spiro,<P><BR>Sorry to say but you're headed for a big hurt. I'm sure this man means the world to you but if this man won't leave an unhappy marriage for you then you ain't worth much to him. JMHO. How long before you want more?<BR>That's when the hurt is going to happen. <P>You should of took the first married man, at least he wanted you.<P>who</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Who <P>Thank you! What you said about him not leaving a unhappy marriage, really made a lot of sense. I never thought of it like that. But he really does have very good reasons for staying there for the time being. And another thing, I'm sure he has feelings for me. It has been over a year that we have been together. A person can tell if someone cares for them. But on the other hand as I mentioned before, maybe I am just too mixed up to see straight. Thank you again for your reply. It gave me something to think about. You probably don't believe me when I say this, but after reading about some of these people here and their pain, it mortifies me to think I could cause someone to hurt so much. That is why I am here asking for advice.

Dear Spiro,<P>Please listen to who. Your relationship may seem like ecstasy now, but your choices are setting you up for more emotional pain than you can imagine.<P>____________________________________________<BR>"What I am trying to say is...I don't think our being together has anything to do with lack of morals.. "<BR>____________________________________________<BR>Spiro, this kind of thinking is what we around here call "THE FOG," thinking that, among other things, ignores reality. The dictionary defines "moral" as "relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior."<BR>What is NOT immoral about two married individuals committing adultery.<P>____________________________________________<BR>"If marriages are mistakes and the right person comes along, then what is wrong with that?"<BR>____________________________________________<BR>What is wrong with that is the fact that you have a husband and OM has a wife. All four of you took vows to forsake others. If your marriages are a mistake, end them. Then and only then is a moral person free to develop a new relationship.<P>Adultery always damages everyone involved, the adulterers, the betrayed spouses, the children, the families, and the community.<P>If your marriage is wrong, be honest with your husband. End it. Make choices that show honor and courage.<P>One of my favorite sayings is, "Character is what you are when no one is looking." Who are adulterers when no one is looking? Someone they are proud of or someone who does things they have to hide from everyone?<BR>What logic tells WSs that something they have to hide is moral and good?<P>Please read stories here. Sadly, your story has been repeated over and over. It is nothing new or special except to you. Maybe you can gain the wisdom to do the right thing and avoid hurting many people including yourself.<P>Please be careful. Estes

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Estes49:<BR><STRONG>Dear Spiro,<P>Please listen to who. Your relationship may seem like ecstasy now, but your choices are setting you up for more emotional pain than you can imagine.<P>____________________________________________<BR>"What I am trying to say is...I don't think our being together has anything to do with lack of morals.. "<BR>____________________________________________<BR>Spiro, this kind of thinking is what we around here call "THE FOG," thinking that, among other things, ignores reality. The dictionary defines "moral" as "relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior."<BR>What is NOT immoral about two married individuals committing adultery.<P>____________________________________________<BR>"If marriages are mistakes and the right person comes along, then what is wrong with that?"<BR>____________________________________________<BR>What is wrong with that is the fact that you have a husband and OM has a wife. All four of you took vows to forsake others. If your marriages are a mistake, end them. Then and only then is a moral person free to develop a new relationship.<P>Adultery always damages everyone involved, the adulterers, the betrayed spouses, the children, the families, and the community.<P>If your marriage is wrong, be honest with your husband. End it. Make choices that show honor and courage.<P>One of my favorite sayings is, "Character is what you are when no one is looking." Who are adulterers when no one is looking? Someone they are proud of or someone who does things they have to hide from everyone?<BR>What logic tells WSs that something they have to hide is moral and good?<P>Please read stories here. Sadly, your story has been repeated over and over. It is nothing new or special except to you. Maybe you can gain the wisdom to do the right thing and avoid hurting many people including yourself.<P>Please be careful. Estes</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear Estes.<P> I'm afraid you are right. I guess, I am trying to justify my actions. I never ever dreamed I would be in a situation like this. You got my attention when you mentioned hiding. That really sucks! If it were so right, then there wouldn't be any reason to hide. I can honestly say my marriage is completely over. If it wasn't then, I certainly wouldn't have any interest in this OP. I was not looking for anyone what so ever when he came along. As I mentioned before, I had no interest in that first guy. I wouldn't dream of having anything to do with anyone who was married. Yours and whos letters have really helped me to see things more clearly. I especially liked what who wrote about OP not leaving a bad marriage. Thank you for your reply. I guess, I am confused.

Here's a great link on character! Enjoy [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img].<P> <A HREF="http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/MED/MED-intro+toc.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/MED/MED-intro+toc.htm</A>

ohmy_marie: This link looks interesting. Thanks. Character and ethics are deep interests of mine. We all want things sometime that are not in our best interests.<BR>It takes willpower, commitment, courage, and sacrifice to make the right (ethical, moral) choices and do the right thing. And it's darn hard sometimes!<P>Spiro: I can understand your confusion. I know it's hard. I'm proud of you for thinking your way through this. Continue to try to put reason over emotion. You seem to<BR>be wanting to do what is right. Rather than trying to solve your marital problems by having an affair and trying to justify it (and there is no justification), think really hard about what you want with your marriage. Even though MB is about preserving marriages, they can't all be recovered. If that is truly your situation, take care of your current commitment (M) first, then you can move on with a clear conscience. May I also suggest that you treat your H as respectfully as you can as you decide what to do.<P>Take care. Estes<P>BTW, Spiro, my DIL is a WS who found someone with whom she felt a connection. It was so important that she be with him that without even discussing things with my son who was clueless about the A, she filed for divorce, took their 2 year old with her, and moved to another state to be with the OM. She lied, connived, plotted, and deceived everyone (even her priest) to do this. She is now deeply in debt, clinically depressed, unstable enough to be too stressed to care for the baby, afraid that things will not work out with my son, afraid that things will not work out with the OM and generally a basket case. So much for connections. Please don't go there. There are better choices.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Estes49:<BR><STRONG>Dear Spiro,<P>Please listen to who. Your relationship may seem like ecstasy now, but your choices are setting you up for more emotional pain than you can imagine.<P>____________________________________________<BR>"What I am trying to say is...I don't think our being together has anything to do with lack of morals.. "<BR>____________________________________________<BR>Spiro, this kind of thinking is what we around here call "THE FOG," thinking that, among other things, ignores reality. The dictionary defines "moral" as "relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior."<BR>What is NOT immoral about two married individuals committing adultery.<P>____________________________________________<BR>"If marriages are mistakes and the right person comes along, then what is wrong with that?"<BR>____________________________________________<BR>What is wrong with that is the fact that you have a husband and OM has a wife. All four of you took vows to forsake others. If your marriages are a mistake, end them. Then and only then is a moral person free to develop a new relationship.<P>Adultery always damages everyone involved, the adulterers, the betrayed spouses, the children, the families, and the community.<P>If your marriage is wrong, be honest with your husband. End it. Make choices that show honor and courage.<P>One of my favorite sayings is, "Character is what you are when no one is looking." Who are adulterers when no one is looking? Someone they are proud of or someone who does things they have to hide from everyone?<BR>What logic tells WSs that something they have to hide is moral and good?<P>Please read stories here. Sadly, your story has been repeated over and over. It is nothing new or special except to you. Maybe you can gain the wisdom to do the right thing and avoid hurting many people including yourself.<P>Please be careful. Estes</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear Spiro, <BR>First I would like to thank Estes for an excellent post and very good advice. Kudos! Spiro it is very important to be honest with yourself first and then and only then you can start to evaluate your situation. If your not honest with yourself you will not face reality. Most people that live their life this way live in denial.<BR>God Bless, Tom<p>[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Tomstocks ]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ohmy_marie:<BR><STRONG>Here's a great link on character! Enjoy [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img].<P> <A HREF="http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/MED/MED-intro+toc.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.josephsoninstitute.org/MED/MED-intro+toc.htm</A></STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ohmy marie, <BR>Thank you for the link on character, its great!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tomstocks:<BR><STRONG><P>Ohmy marie, <BR>Thank you for the link on character, its great!</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you all for your replies. I read a lot before I actually posted. I saw a lot of people in pain and realized that I didn't want to be a part of that. My marriage has been over with for years and we both realize that. We just want to part peacefully. As far as the OP. I am just going to tell him, it is over until we are both out of our marriages and if we are meant to be together, then we will later on. You know what is going to be difficult? He is going to call me tomorrow and his name will be on my phone as it is ringing. It is going to be very hard to not pick up the phone. And Marie that is a very good site you sent. I read a lot of it. I will read more at work tomorrow and make a list. That will help me! This might sound crazy to some of you, but I am looking to going back to church and not feeling so ashamed. That sure was a powerful sentence that Who wrote about me not meaning much.... You have all been a big help. Thank you again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spiro:<BR><STRONG><P>Thank you all for your replies. I read a lot before I actually posted. I saw a lot of people in pain and realized that I didn't want to be a part of that. My marriage has been over with for years and we both realize that. We just want to part peacefully. As far as the OP. I am just going to tell him, it is over until we are both out of our marriages and if we are meant to be together, then we will later on. You know what is going to be difficult? He is going to call me tomorrow and his name will be on my phone as it is ringing. It is going to be very hard to not pick up the phone. And Marie that is a very good site you sent. I read a lot of it. I will read more at work tomorrow and make a list. That will help me! This might sound crazy to some of you, but I am looking to going back to church and not feeling so ashamed. That sure was a powerful sentence that Who wrote about me not meaning much.... You have all been a big help. Thank you again.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Spiro,<P>It seems yours eyes have been opened and you are making a wise choice. We know this might not be easy for you and you might waffle a little. I hope if you waffle or have a setback you don't stop coming here. You are a minority on this board and it could be pretty easy to get scared off. I applaud you for being honest with yourself. If you continue to do that you will end up in the right place. <P><BR>who

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spiro:<BR><STRONG><P>Thank you all for your replies. I read a lot before I actually posted. I saw a lot of people in pain and realized that I didn't want to be a part of that. My marriage has been over with for years and we both realize that. We just want to part peacefully. As far as the OP. I am just going to tell him, it is over until we are both out of our marriages and if we are meant to be together, then we will later on. You know what is going to be difficult? He is going to call me tomorrow and his name will be on my phone as it is ringing. It is going to be very hard to not pick up the phone. And Marie that is a very good site you sent. I read a lot of it. I will read more at work tomorrow and make a list. That will help me! This might sound crazy to some of you, but I am looking to going back to church and not feeling so ashamed. That sure was a powerful sentence that Who wrote about me not meaning much.... You have all been a big help. Thank you again.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> Dear Spiro, <BR>I have to agree with whothehellisshe and would like to let you know that we are here for you whenever you need us even if its just to vent. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Tom,<P>I saw your post to me at D/D and decided to pop in.<P>My ex is a man of very little character. And he doesn't have any morals. This is something that is a learned behavior for him as his father is the same way. <P>Oh yeah, he used to write me long letters and write poetry for me (artistic!) but then he would kick my A$$ for waking him up to go to work. I can't say that he doesn't love his children because he was there when they were all 3 born and I saw the look on his face when he held them for the first time. But they are not a priority for him right now. He's too wrapped up in the woman he left to be with and the lifestyle that they have. (He is an alcoholic and drug addict). <P>I don't feel the intense pain that I used to but I still ask all of the "why?" questions. I know that our marriage could have been good if it hadn't been for his anger and his addictions. But that's not how it turned out. <P>Good topic!<P>Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mitzi:<BR><STRONG>Hi Tom,<P>I saw your post to me at D/D and decided to pop in.<P>My ex is a man of very little character. And he doesn't have any morals. This is something that is a learned behavior for him as his father is the same way. <P>Oh yeah, he used to write me long letters and write poetry for me (artistic!) but then he would kick my A$$ for waking him up to go to work. I can't say that he doesn't love his children because he was there when they were all 3 born and I saw the look on his face when he held them for the first time. But they are not a priority for him right now. He's too wrapped up in the woman he left to be with and the lifestyle that they have. (He is an alcoholic and drug addict). <P>I don't feel the intense pain that I used to but I still ask all of the "why?" questions. I know that our marriage could have been good if it hadn't been for his anger and his addictions. But that's not how it turned out. <P>Good topic!<P>Mitzi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Dear Mitzi, <BR>Thank You, Its a topic that is important to me and I think is the starting point in what to look for in someone when wanting a family/relationship. I too am going through the painful process of having to move on even though in my heart I dont want to. I even have to stop myself from calling her & wanting to give it one more try, but I stop and think and evaluate her actions then I get slapped in the face with reality. I realize that time will heal my broken heart but time alone does not make a PLAYER into a family orientated person. <P>Well anyway welcome to our thread and we will look forward to your insight [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ October 19, 2001: Message edited by: Tomstocks ]