J-C:<p>Your story is so sad, and so familiar. Like Boomer, my W and I went through similar problems. My obsession was work. And after a long day at work, I was emotionally drained and had nothing left for my W or C. I think I was pretty lazy too, and I felt I didn't need to make an effort. Almost 13 years later, I had a "wake up call". Nothing dramatic, I just decided to take inventory of my life and realized how much I had isolated the very things most precious to me. For the past 10 months or so I have been working hard at bringing my W back from her emotional withdrawl. I wish I had figured things out way earlier...<p>As for advice, I agree with the others. Come clean with your H. Hopefully, he too will pick up his life and return to his family. In any event, I think you need to take a "stand" for you and your daughters' sake, as hard as it might be. Is there any way that as a family, maybe even with friends, you can do an "intervention" and make your H realize he has an addiction and seek counseling?<p>God, why is it that we let these addictions consume or lives - work, computer games, alcohol, t.v. Why do we keep seeing relationships destroyed over and over again? Argh!!<p>I wish you all the best for your family - its worth the struggle. Keep strong.

I remember an old Barry White song (you can tell how old I am when I remember an old song) in which part of the song said "..it took me the rest of my life to found you and it's going to take me the rest of my life to keep you". <p>How very brutally true those words are when it comes to relationships like marriage, aren't they?<p>Joe.

I've got a solution for you--videotape yourself having sex with another guy and set the timer on the VCR so it runs during his favorite show...

I can identify with a whole lot that you are saying, J-C, except that my husband ended up being the WS instead of me.<p>However, he's the one that was preoccupied with his dumb computer several years ago. It was his life--all it was was chat on the internet and all the cool little tricks he could get his computer to do. This is what he did to relax outside of work. This is ALL he did outside of work, and I was so sick of it.<p>I did all the stuff you did--trying to seduce my husband. All it did was break my heart. We were living in Hawaii at the time. I would say "Hey, let's go whale-watching at Laie this morning." And he would say "Why would I want to do that? Boring." I would say "Let's go to Haliewe Cafe for breakfast." And he would say "That's an old shore shack--they should be shut down for hygiene problems." I would say "I really really want to see this movie, let's go." He would say "I don't trust anybody to babysit, and we can't take a toddler to the movies." And then he would turn back to his computer. I couldn't compete, I couldn't come between him and his precious computer!! I was so danged lonely!!!!!!!<p>Instead of having an affair, however, I left. My husband had turned down a career opportunity of a lifetime,--a commission in the military--came home from OCS, and sat down in front of his computer. He chatted with people day and night. I was angry. We fought. He said "Oh, you are just pissed at me because you wanted to sit home and use me as a mealticket." That was probably the most horrible thing that he had ever said to me--even all the B-words and F-words that he had used on me in our frequent arguements did not hurt as much.<p>So I left. Instead of having an affair (I had learned my lesson from my first marriage) I just left. I re-upped in the army and went to a new duty station. I did this for a multitude of reasons: I wanted to prove to him that I loved him no matter what his job, that I would be the one to work; I wasn't using him as a mealticket. I needed to work because he was so wrapped up in his hobby, someone had to work. But most of all, I left because I wanted to scare him. I wanted to show him that I was serious about not wanting to compete with his stupid little hobby. It really made me mad. I also left because I was so hurt by his cruel words and was blinded to the consequences.<p>I left thinking that as soon as he finished up his tour of duty in Hawaii in a few months, he would catch up to me, lesson learned, and everything would be cool.<p>Know what he did? As soon as I left, he reapplied for his commission, received it, then continued his little hobby of chatting unhindered, without my complaining, because I was in WA state while he was in officer's school. Then he met another woman in a chatroom. He felt it was his right to move on, because I had "abandoned him." He told his girlfriend that I left him because he wasn't the great money-maker that I wanted him to be, so I had just taken the kid and dumped him. According to him, he was the total victim in this.<p>Thus began his affair. It ended only because he didn't want to lose the kid, plus the fact that he is still on the road in the military and had to leave his sweetheart behind. (He begged me to take a chapter from the army, this required that I get out of the army so that I could go with him--a huge sacrifice) It has been four years, and we are still recovering from it. I would say that we are just now getting on the road to recovery, now because in addition to chat, he also got involved in a new preoccupation--internet porn. More and nakeder women for your dime, I guess.<p>Like you, J-C, I feel so cheated. If he had paid me some attention, given me maybe ten minutes of undivided attention a day, shown me a little affection once in a while, had a heart-to-heart talk with me here and there, made love to me when I felt like it, not just when he felt like it. . .well, none of this would have happened.<p>What makes me so angry is the fact that he gave his nasty girlfriend the only thing that I have ever asked of him--his affection. He called her pet names. He made an whole-hearted effort to spend time with her. He took her places. He TALKED to her!!!!<p>Now, my husband is trying to change--but he is not getting it, no matter how much breath I waste trying to tell him. He thinks that getting out his wallet and spending a butt-load of money on things that I don't need will satisfy my "craving for attention." He thinks that taking me out bar-hopping, so that I can sit and watch him smoke and call all his friends on his cell-phone will qualify as "taking me places."<p>I know he is trying. He doesn't chat anymore, but the career that he didn't want in the first place is a huge a priority to him now. He comes home late at night, demands a list of "what did I get done today" and then falls asleep on the couch with a book.<p>The other day, my little son stayed over at a friend's house. I thought "Great! A chance to get romantic!" My husband said "You want to go anywhere?" And I said "No, it's pretty late. We can just hang out here" So, he read a book, glued his eyeballs onto the tv, played a computer game for a little while, then got into bed. He rolled over and faced the wall. I was upset. But I didn't want to start a fight, so I said nothing.<p>The next morning, he returned to his PC game. I came in wearing just my silk kimono and said "Come on, let's get it going." He said "Naw, I'm going to the gym. Thanks for staying up all night cleaning the house. Looks great." (He was being earnest in his praise, but it was a slap in the face--I had nothing better to do all night than scrub the bathrooms!)<p>He says that I started that fight. He's right, I did. I started fussing about his girlfriend, what was so great about her that he piled all this attention onto her. This escalated into a huge shouting match, about how I am fixated on the past and how I am the instigater, and if I am so unhappy, I should just pack my bags and go home to Idaho. Lovely way to spend a day that we had to ourselves--fighting.<p>J-C, this is a common problem, being lonely in your marriage because your husband is "distracted." I don't blame you for having a fling. If I hadn't screwed up my first marriage, I probably would have resorted to this, too. It hurts to be sooooo lonely in your marriage, and you are made to feel like a b**ch for continually addressing the problem to unhearing ears. I know so well.<p>You need to tell your husband the truth--and go to counseling. He should know how lonely you are. Chances are, deep inside, he is wildly in love with you, he just doesn't "know it." You are a comfortable place to him, like a pillow. You are there when he needs you. You are the mother of his kids, the keeper of his house. You fulfill your roll. That's good enough for him. He doesn't feel that he should look any further, because he's happy.<p>You have to show him that you need something from him--talking is what you have done in the past, to no avail. You really need counseling. And you have to be honest with him about your past.<p>Stick with us, please. Your marriage has a chance.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by J-C:
<strong>
new_beginning my point was that a "mistress" can be in any form. Gambling, alcohol, drugs, pornography and yes even a TV. It's all the same in the heart of the person left wanting. I suppose I should have said that I had Richard investigated before meeting him. I was careful and yes we used protection.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I understood your point, believe me. <p>Perhaps I should not be here, because in my mind, there is no "good enough" reason for an affair -- and remember, I HAD ONE... and my ex-H had MANY before me and after mine, so I had a "good reason" too... just not GOOD ENOUGH, because NO REASON is good enough.<p>The fact that you had Richard investigated only adds to my thoughts that you really THOUGHT about what you were doing. I was so out of my mind during my affair that I took very dangerous and stupid chances... <p>This is NOT a flame. I hear that your H is emotionally distant. However, how can he begin to work on something that he doesn't realize is broken? **THAT** was my point.<p>I will back out from this thread now, as I can see that you have built a good support network here... and we all need to be surrounded by people who understand and can offer supportive advice. I feel that you would only see my suggestions as "not understanding"...<p>I wish you peace and healing for your marriage.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I begged him to go away with me, a vacation alone - Mexico, the Bahamas, Jamaica. My mother offered to watch the kids but he said it's not fair to the them. So I spent my vacations in Myrtle Beach, Ocean City, NJ, Ocean City Md. <hr></blockquote><p>Hi JC<p>Let me start off by saying, that I am the WS. Not only once, but several times. Somethings just don't add up. Your paragraph I quoted. How did you manage to take 2 weeks away from your husband and kids? When you have to do all the kid vacations? <p>Anyway, sorry I had to say that. Also, I would have to say that if you think your husband knows, he just isn't saying so, that is fog. There is no way. Maybe I'm just jaded, I don't know, there are a lot of crashers lately, and the writing style, looks like someone from the Gloryb.<p>You see, I could very easily tell myself that my husband had a mistress, however his was the computer and not the tv. But, that would be a lie. When he found out, the computer was the last thing he wanted to look at. <p>I didn't know how to communicate my needs to him, because frankly, he didn't know what they were. I didn't do the things you did, but like JL said, maybe your husband is depressed, I myself can't understand watching tv till 430 in the morning, I can never find anything good on!<p>But, the bottom line is this, that if he doesn't know its broke, he can't fix it. <p>Why now, four years later are you talking about this?<p>Just curious.<p>PJ

PlainJane I'm kind of stumped here.I sense you are calling me a liar and I don't understand why. What is the issue with my taking a vacation alone? It's not like I abandoned my kids and my husband. My mother took care of the kids while H was at work and he took care of them the rest of the time. My H gets 4 weeks vacation and in the summer we almost always do things with the kids on Sunday's.<p>I also don't understand the words you used about fog, gate crashers and the gloryb. Fog, if I understand correctly. is the WS viewing things as though through a fog. But gate crashing? Does that mean I shouldn't have posted here? I thought it was an open forum type of thing. If I crossed a line I did so without knowing, What is the gloryb? I looked at mostly everything on this site and I didn't find this in the acronyms.<p>you said "But, the bottom line is this, that if he doesn't know its broke, he can't fix it" but how could he not know when I've told him over and over and over again?<p>And as to why after 4 years I'm talking about this, that answer is very simple and you can find it in my first post on this thread. I thought I could show others how these things start. I have no hidden agenda. I am just one more lost soul in this game called life. I hope I answered your questions and if this is a private board please just tell me and I'll back out quietly.<p>Peace J

Sorry if I doubted you, you are more than welcome here, just like anyone else. I guess that your post kinda got me upset in the fact that we all here know how affairs start, and the fog in which I speak of is this:<p>When I was first caught in my affair, I tried all the justifying in the world. He doesn't pay any attention to me, if only he would notice me, he doesn't love me, he doesn't talk to me, he is on the computer too much, blah blah blah. The reality was that I didn't love me. I didn't respect me. I was looking for any excuse for my behaviour. <p>So, if I did sound bitter, again, my apologies, and the glorb, is a place that OW and OM post their stories. <p>
PJ

JC-<p>I read your original post shortly after you wrote it, and I wanted terribly to reply right then, but I just couldn't quite put to words what was going on inside my head and my heart. Now, several days later, and after reading most of the replies, the time is right and clarity is coming to me.<p>First, let me give you a little of our background (I'll try to be brief, though it's hard sometimes). Four years ago, I became involved in an EA. It was intense, but lasted only around 3 months or so. I can remember having many of the feelings and discussions about leaving our spouses and being together, and all of that. I had pretty much shut myself off to my wife, and didn't want much to do with her.....but finally, I decided that what I was doing was just plain wrong and I wanted to see if I could make my marriage work. As such, I didn't tell my wife about my affair.<p>To this point, you and I walked the same path. Now, I'm going to flip sides on you.<p>Over the next four years, out of guilt, shame, a feeling that I was protecting my wife (who I now loved again deeply) from harm, I never told her about my affair. This affected me profoundly. I began to shut down lines of communication, if a topic came too close to home, or could possibly lead to a confession, I swore it off the topics list. <p>Eventually (for the last year), I fell into a form of clinical depression (and this part will probably sound familiar to you). I just stopped caring about ANYTHING (that includes recreational activities, friends and family, household duties, SEX, my lovely wife, SEX! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ). I would come home from work, go to the office, and spend about five or six hours in front of the computer (doing bills, playing games, aimlessly surfing the internet). I neglected my wife terribly!<p>Through the last year (and more), she would try to let me know. She'd ask if I was maybe depressed and maybe I should see someone. I would reply that I'm just down and I'll come out of it. She would "nag" me about doing my part of the marital duties, I would get pissed and ignore her. <p>Finally, she got fed up with it and started doing things for HER (and rightfully so). Problem is, she found someone else to meet her needs, and fell in love. Shortly afterwards, I began to find my way out of the pit, but she was no longer there to help. I began to see that something wasn't quite right with "US", and began to ask her if she was happy.... she lied and said yes.<p>Finally, clarity hit me, and I flat out asked her if she was having an affair. She finally admitted it, told me she was done, and wanted a divorce IMMEDIATELY. Well, that issue is still pending and we haven't taken that step yet. <p>But, BOY was that ever the wakeup call that I needed. I began to look at myself, and didn't like who I'd become. I came clean about MY affair, I got help for my depression, I began to engage in the activities that once made me happy....and I now AM happy (well, except for the state of my marriage).<p>
Through all of this introspection, there's one thing that I wish my wife had done/said to help me figure it out. Maybe it's a guy thing and we're just all incredibly dense or something, maybe we just need you gals to be brutally blunt with us once in a while. I want to know if you've done this yet, if not, PLEASE consider it....I truly believe that it would have made a difference with me, and not been as devastating as an affair.<p>I wish my wife would have used the D word with me. I wish she would have sat me down (with the TV off), looked me in the eye, and told me that she was unhappy, that I was causing that unhappiness, and that unless I got help and began to work on the marriage, she was going to DIVORCE me. <p>That ONE WORD ALONE might have made the difference. Maybe not, but now we'll never know.<p>You see, JC, you, your husband, my wife, and I have much in common. We've played a variety of similar roles.<p>Like everyone else here, I STRONGLY urge you to speak to your husband in a language that he can understand (sort of like Coca Cola!). Please tell him that you're unhappy, and have been. Tell him that your unhappiness led you to an affair, and, even though that affair was wrong and has been over for some time, if things don't make a DRASTIC improvement, you're going to file for DIVORCE.<p>Good luck, and God bless,
Kev

Hi- similar story if this will help some. speaking as WW IN A now.
I love my kids, I have great affection for H but I always felt some repulsion on personal/sexual level. We worked on this many years. Why married?
Seemed so good on paper, v nice guy, dependable.
15 years forced myself to have relations, always felt I was violating a part of myself. Pregnant very soon after marriage, couldn't bear to break it for their sake.
Then fell for neighbour over 10 years ago. Didn't let on. Last two years friendly, superficial joking e mail contact- still didn't let on. I thought he'd guessed but he hadn't.
Then his wife kicked him out, totally opposite wavelengths, escalated misunderstandings. (I heard story from both sides)
My e mail friendship deepened, I couldn't stand the emotional strain, and in despair, (sure now that he must have guessed) I mentioned my feelings and said we should drop contact.
Then he became VERY interested in me. He wanted my help and I couldn't bring myself to tell him to shove off. A few weeks we danced around on e mail till he invited me over 'to talk'. I knew something would happen.
This was nearly four months ago, I see him about once a week, sometimes more.
Part of me has wanted to quit, terrified teenagers would discover us, but OM seems to need me and won't let go of me, I'm much more emotionally attached now and my mood plummets whenever I seriously consider backing out. I give him every easy door to let me go, but he doesn't. I need HIM. I don't need sex so much as HIM. He gives me everything my husband can't. I've never adored a man this much, and I've fallen in love before.
Husband is supportive, and we are actually good platonic friends and laugh about the whole thing- he found me this site and has been doing reading, but all the repulsive factors still there.
OM may leave country, it's been a plan for months, always 'immanent'. We always said- soon he'll be gone and I can get start getting over him- we never guessed he'd postpone it so long, he's been making real preparations for that trip. I think after this I'll be celibate for the rest of my life.
I would be with him but I have to stick with my kids and he has legal problems.
It's clear this hurts me MORE than it hurts BH, I'm much more stressed and emotionally variable.
I feel very very vulnerable and trying to 'be there' for everybody.

Birdinacage,
can you tell me ,what there is to laugh about?
I can't seem to find the humor in your post.
Are you for real?

Jc, I AM VERY sorry for your situation... I think your H needs help and is addicted to tv.. he obviously works hard, and just veg's out... I am so sorry... Do you work, maybe there needs to be more balance, is he overloaded.. do you attend church.. lots of people show love in the wrong ways... or not in the way you need.. HE loves you, do not throw this man out.. he obviously showed you love at one time... How old are the kids, that is a big stressor, sounds like he is family man... see if he will go to counseling, if he won't - you go... there is also a good site out there.. restore marriage.com I think.. search on google... I am sorry about your situation.. try GOd.. he may have the answer... Love your husband... you promised to... he will come around.. he may need help.<p>I am sorry, please do not give up. Remember your marriage covenant, your children and this man who loves you. Give and you will recieve. <p>Hugs, HONEY

You can seperate... saw this advice.. that could be the wakeup call.. not antoher affair, or even a divorce.. sometimes seperation can be very good. hugs, honey

I followed your post today to this one and how sad this story is and how strangely it parallels my own life to a degree. My H is also addicted to the TV and I hate it. He can watch anything from sports to cartoons - anything as long as the TV is on. It's been a problem almost since the beginning of our marriage and I hate it.<p>Now the odd part - I wasn't the one who had an affair- it was him. I guess I wasn't meeting his need to be left alone for hours on end to watch his precious TV. <p>I wish you luck J-C. I know there battle you have fought and I can sympathize with you. I'm sorry for your pain and I hope you find some peace in this crazy mixed up world