Just wondering why I should even bother trying anymore, I honestly don't think there is anything left for me to work on. Plan A seems futile anymore since we are living apart and any contact we have is very limited. I posted earlier that W had a big melt-down this last weekend about OM not leaving his W and family for her, but its clear that W doesn't want me to help her, shes going to figure this out on her own.<p>I'm so tired of hearing W tell me how hard she has it. Hearing about how hard it is to raise 4 kids alone, having to live on food stamps and medicaid, having no time for herself, being tired all the time from all the work she has to do. Its at the point where I don't even answer the phone anymore for fear that it is W calling me again to complain about how hard she has it.<p>I have been doing my best to avoid any LB's when she calls, but it is at the point where I need to tell her to quit telling me about her problems. W is living the life she wants, why else would she have pushed for the separation papers and gotten a restraining order filed against me? Did she think things would have gotten easier? After all, we spent 13 years building a life and family TOGETHER. And now she wants to go at it alone, hello?, didn't she think about the consequences of this?<p>I'm supposed to go over for dinner this weekend but am wondering why I should. I think I will just to see if there are any feelings left, but to be honest, I don't think there are anymore. W has made it very clear that she doesn't want to be married anymore, but doesn't want to get divorced because then she will loose her insurance benefits I am providing and then will have to go out and get a job. W is also talking about me living in the basement this summer so that I can help out around the house. For me, that's just aint going to happen because it seems like she would be using me. If W would make some kind of commitment to the M, then it would be different.<p>Its been 5 months now and nothing has changed in our relationship, W has everything she needs. I meet her financial needs and BF's and her continued contact with OM are meeting her EN's. Since I take the kids as much as I can, I am also meeting her domestic needs. W keeps telling me she wants to remain 'friends', but even in friendships, there is a certain amount of trust, honesty and respect that is definetly missing in our relationship. I would just as soon end this relationship and remain 'business partners'.<p>I'm at the point where I just want to be done with W so that I can go on with my life and not have to worry about her anymore. Maybe it really is time to move to Plan B so that I can file for D as soon as possible and be done with this living in limbo land. I'm fighting this, thinking that there is some hope left, but knowing that there really isn't. I go to bed everynight hating W for what she has done and wake up every morning wondering why I should even try anymore. No, this is not what I want, but it is getting to the point where it is something I need.<p>Anyway, this is more of a vent, but if someone can tell me why I should, or shouldn't move on, it would be appreciated.

I don't know how much help I can be to you, but I am willing to try. Here it goes...I read from your post is that you do not really want to give up on the marriage, but that you are tired of not being treated with kindness and respect. If that is the case, Plan B might help you. Going to Plan B do you can file for D is only recommended if you are ready to face the possibility that it may happen and your marriage would be over. If you still have hope for your marriage after the A has dies a natural death then I would not suggest filing.<p>In Plan B you can protect yourself from any further pain that your WW has been causing you and allow the A to die a natural death. You should stop meeting all ENs of your WS unless it compromises the kids well being (ex. food for them, clothes for them etc.). It gives you distance from what is happening and allows you to heal without any unnecessay pain being inflicted from the OP, the WS or the A. It is almost like you put up a protective wall around yourself. It also lets her see what a D would be like. You are meeting ENs besides money and domestic support or she would not call you and tell you how tough things are for her. Do you have someone that can act as a middle person for you? Someone that you can meet to pick up and drop off the kids, someone that can relay messages to and from your WW when needed? When you move to Plan B I think that it is very important to have these things set up before you send the letter so that there is no unwanted contact due to lack of preparation.<p>Before you give up think about what you really want. There were times when I would think why am I doing this. Then I would remember why I married him in the first place and the person he is capable of being and I was ready to give it more time. <p>Do you still love her? If the answer is yes, please don't give up yet.

I suppose that I am meeting her EN's by listening to her complaining. I know that when she called me last weekend during her melt-down, I definetly was meeting her EN's by listening to her and trying to help her out. Besides a few distant cousins and uncles, I am the only real family she will talk to anymore. The rest have told her that they don't want to hear about her problems anymore, that she should be comitting herself to saving her marriage and family instead of doing what she is doing.<p>But how do I tell her that I don't want to hear about how bad her life is without it being a huge LB? After all, I wasn't the one who decided to move-out, W made that decision for me. How do I tell her that we are separated now, living separate lives and whatever problems we have are our own, that we don't need to be complaining to each other about how hard we have it. My life sucks right now too, but I am not constantly calling her and complaining about how bad I have it. I'm just dealing with it and trying to move on. That's a big part of my Plan A.<p>Do I love her, YES! Do I want the M to work out, YES! But that doesn't seem to be enough anymore for me. That love needs to be reciprocated in order for it to survive in a relationship. She tells me she loves me, but those are only words to me, I see no actions verifying it. There has been so much blatant lying, deceiving, disrepect, I don't know what to believe from her. W does not meet any of my needs anymore, not a single one that I can think of. Its at the point where I am actually embarrassed to consider her my wife because of what has happened.<p>I think that the only reason why I havent gone to Plan B is because of the kids. We have a very liberal visitation schedule and have to talk to her in order to figure out when I will be taking them, but that is about the only reason I will even talk to her.<p>I'm tired of this crap. I want a life back. I want to be respected, appreciated and loved by someone, preferably by the one I devoted my life too. I don't care about the SF, heck, for a few bucks I could get that need met anywhere. If this is the path W chooses to take, I just need to let her go.

Your current situation can't be better for your kids than a happy marriage. Plan B MAY help you regain that. If you think you are having a hard time with this, imagine what your kids are going through.<p>Doing plan A for too long can make you lose all of your love for your spouse. Each time you meet their need and they don't meet yours, withdrawals are taken from your love bank. Plan B helps preserve those withdrawals.<p>Since going on plan B, I have been nicer to my wife and she has been nicer to me. It may not be the same for you but if you honestly can't do plan a any more (I couldn't), plan b may be your next step.<p>If you both are not in counseling, I recommend you both do so as soon as possible.

Would you consider going to Plan B without filing for D? It may be tough considering the visitation situation, but I really think it could do wonders for your outlook. Her actions towards you are killing you love bank and if you don't go to Plan B or even a modified version of Plan B soon, you may not want her back when she does come around. <p>As for not listening to her complain being a LB, well that could be taken care of with the Plan B letter. You just simply state that other the conversations regarding visitations that it has just become to painful for you to have contact with her including phone contact. I'm sure that there are others here that have gone to Plan B but have had to remain in some contact with the WS to take care of kid related issues. <p>I know how painful this is, but only give up when you are satisifed that 10 years down the road when you look back on your decision you can look in the mirror and say I did everything I could. If you are already there, you will know and then you can move on and be happy with the decision in the future. <p>I will say a little prayer for you.

No, this situation is not easy on the kids at all. I can feel the anger coming on everytime I go to the house to pick them up, that place is such a huge trigger for me. Then I am in a bad mood for a long time afterwards which is not fair for the kids at all.<p>I really think Plan B is for me now, I have been going back and forth with this, but the time has come. I'm tired of W feeding off of me, using me like she has. As far as the D, it has already been set in motion. Our state is a 'no-fault' state and the separation is basically a divorce anyway. 6 mos after filing the separation papers we have to decide what to do, leave the separation intact, or make it an official D. Personally, if things don't change in the next 6 mos, I would rather go to the D anyway. W keeps telling me that wont be fair on the kids, that she would have to get a job then, well to bad for her. I'll take the kids after school so that she can support herself. Having their Dad forceably removed from the home wasn't fair to them either, but that didn't stop W from doing it.<p>I know I have done all I can. I have done my best Plan A I can, but W is so wrapped up in her own problems that she cant see the changes I have made. I am going to start writing my Plan B letter and get it ready to send. I know she will not take it well, but I will have to be prepared for that. 4 mos of the A and 5 mos since DDay without any changes, its been long enough. W really has had everything she wants this whole time, now its time I remove myself from her mess. What really hurts is the way she pretends like everything is fine, that a separation isnt such a big deal, and the kids will be better because of it since our M was basically a loveless M anyway.<p>I have been thinking about what has happened the last few years (W has done a lot of cosmetic surgery stuff, been to a bunch of motivational and self-improvement seminars, been living the 'singles' life) and I really am beginning to wonder if W has been planning this the whole time. Sometimes I feel like such an idiot for being taken advantage of like this. I honestly don't think that there is anything left I can do, nor want to do.

You may want to consider posting you Plan B letter here so you can get some input. Others have done this and they have gotten some really good feedback. I am glad that you are a point where you know that you have done a good Plan A. With that done your Plan B should be more effective. The key is to stick to it. I was a mess when I started Plan B because I did not really do a Plan A. WH's actions were too destructive to me and Steve Harley did not think it was safe for me emotionally to do Plan A. Plan B gave me time to get through the emotions, deal with what was happening and allowed me to step back and decide if I still wanted to save my marriage. Plan B did wonders for me. Luckily WH started coming around to see if all the changes he was hearing about (mostly physical) were real. He got interested. We are dating now and things look better every day. <p>One thing to keep in mind is that you may have times when you feel like you need to talk to her. Don't give in. Post here, talk to friends, go for a walk. But do not contact her. <p>Hang in there. You are becoming such a strong person and you will be OK no matter what the outcome. Part of the healing is learning to love yourself and that is hard to do when someone is constantly making you feel that you are not worth their love. In a way they are right, you are worth more!!!

Hey bud,<p>
I've been really busy lately but haven't forgot about you. Don't forget about that big heart of yours. I'm not telling you to hang in the M nor am I telling you to bail. You've done a TON lhs, be proud of that. You will decide when you've had enough and even if you decide to get out it takes time. Don't take that blame with you. You might feel like a fool and it's easy to blame your W for that but it really doesn't do YOU any good.<p>who<p>BTW, she should get her money back for the shelf-help seminars [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Hopefully I will have some time in the next week to put some serious thought into my Plan B letter. When I have it ready, I will post it here for some constructive criticism. Its so hard to tell the woman you love with all your heart and soul that you no longer want anything to do with her because of what she has/is doing. Love must be tough, I guess.<p>In the meantime I am going to try and stop all contact with her except for our visitation schedules. Besides that, there is really no reason to talk to her anyway. The separation agreement has been finalized so the financial end of it is taken care of. I'll have to figure out a nice way to tell her to piss-off and leave me alone. After support payments and my rent, I have about $75/mo to live on, what a crappy life I have been given.<p>Im just tired of this whole thing. I've realized now that my Plan A changes have never really been acknowledged by W. Last night we went to a back-to-school night for the kids and W wouldn't even stay in the same room as I was in, sure the kids noticed that. I made sure that I did nothing to make her uncomfortable. Then when we went home, she immediately went upstairs and got on the phone. As I was leaving, I could see her peeking out the blinds and looking up the street at OM's house. Then she opened up the blinds, pretty sure that is a signal they have been using to let OM know it is safe to call. <p>As long as they are still 'together', there is absolutely no reason to continue this relationship. I hope someday that W realizes what she has given up in order to have her happy life. Yes, its time for me to move on and have the life I deserve. After seeing this side of her, I don't even know if I want to get her back.<p>WHO- I should ask W to get that refund, she could use it to pay for all the counselling that our kids are going to need in order to deal with her 'self-improvements'.

Hi Love her still just felt the need to reply to your post, i know just how you are feeling.
I have just gone to plan B this week, i felt i could take no more of the pain h is so willing to give.<p>We have been seperated since sept, but have been out for drinks, meals etc and H has stayed one or two nights a week lately.<p>Maybe that sounds good and for a while i thought it was, but he is giving nothing no love no kisses no romance, SF was good but oh so hollow when you know he dosent feel love for you because he was probably with OW the night before and probably will be the next night.<p>So im at the same stage as you its just taken a long long time to get there.
I can no longer see the point in trying to save something only i want.<p>I asked how why he came around, why he had SF, his reply because you want to!!!
About sums it up really dosent it.
This is hurting so much but i can see no other way to go.<p>And if this is how you feel then i think plan B will be good for you.
I dont think living as we have is doing us to good.
Im going to stick to plan B as best i can i hope you manage to as well<p>We all deserve more than we are getting maybe this will make them realise but im not holding my breath.
Good luck and take care.
Liz