I'm in a bit of a mood tonight (again! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ), so I'll pull a Scarlett O'Hara and deal with it tomorrow ( [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ). Here's my question:<p>If your WS were to have another A, and knowing what you now know, would you still aim for recovery?<p>I don't think I would. I've been put through so much already, numerous times with my H, that I just wouldn't have the drive to do it all again. Thanks to MB, I now KNOW how strong I am, and that I would do just fine on my own.<p>Karen

I have two words for that...<p>Tough Love.<p>Plan B.<p>Hasta buddy.<p>Bye Bye.<p>See Ya.<p>Hugs,
Cali

Hmmm, I don't think so...not so much from what I learned..but from what he did. If infidelity is still an option...he didn't learn much.
t

Hi Topie,<p>You encouraged me a bit last year when I was going thru stuff - I'm now posting in another name as my WH found out who I was. So thanx.
i just realised you got married 2 weeks after me and separated from your WH a month before me - yet you seem so much more in the know about giving advice than I do - I'm still asking the questions!<p>Anyhow, your question...<p>As much as this sounds crazy, yes, I'd still pray for his return - not that I'd tell him that. At the moment (I say at the moment as I know my opinions may change on this) I believe I made a lifetime committment, no matter what H's actions are - but definately plan B with it. But I completely understand your feelings on it.<p>I have friends who are working thru this right now and are doing really well - its been 10 months. He had an affair years ago, was found out, they dealt with it, moved on together...then last year she found out he'd done it again. She is coping really well with it.<p>AH

Hmmm....probably wouldn't give him another chance.<p>I can't say definitely, because geez...I used to say what I absolutely WOULD do if faced with alot of situations...only to have it bite me in the behind repeatedly.<p>BUT - We've been through MB now, and learned soooooo much about marriage, and about affairs, and all this stuff....<p>So if he did it again...he'd be doing it with full knowledge of exactly what kind of hurt he'd be causing me. It would also indicate to me, after all this work on rebuilding trust, that there was no way to trust him.<p>I'd be inclined to say that I'd be right to Plan B/D. Frankly, I'd rather be alone that live through the pain of an affair, AND the pain of recovery. (Yep for those of you not in recovery yet....you thought the affair was bad...recovery is worse).

Goodness... If I could accept my husband as a husband NOW and he did it again, after all we've been through... There has to be a harsher word for that than "doormat". <p>Snow

Cali: I love seeing how strong you've become in the last couple of months. Hats off to you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Twyla: Ain't that the truth! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>AH: You're welcome, I'm glad I could help you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] If you were married 2 weeks before me, then you have the same wedding day as my penpal of 19 yrs in England. Cool!!<p>BR: Recovery sure is harder than plan A/B time, that's for sure! For me, the hardest part was the actual true realization that the A was not the issue to be dealt with, but everything else was! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Snowwhite: hehehe. I thought you might come up with something witty like that. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>he'd be doing it with full knowledge of exactly what kind of hurt he'd be causing me. It would also indicate to me, after all this work on rebuilding trust, that there was no way to trust him.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>This is why I'm having such a hard time. My H didn't just stumble into unfamiliar territory with ignorance of the consequences. He LIVED being a BS himself before meeting and marrying me, PLUS he knows everything I went through as a BS in my previous M, too.<p>Since my H is not fully cooperative, I don't even consider myself in recovery this time yet, but I think the "next time" for me wouldn't have to be another A. If this refusal to deal with the current situation appropriately continues, I will eventually give up.<p>And if there ever comes a time when any of the previous A symptoms exhibit themselves, I won't even wait for proof. Just the smell or suggestion of it will be enough for me. It almost was this time around.<p>When he left in Sept., I still didn't have proof, but I knew that he was either having an A or trying to make me think he was having an A, so either way, cruelty beyond belief considering the BS history we both have, so it was enough for me to go to the attorney immediately. If he hadn't contacted me 6 days later with a confession and request to move back in along with his infamous promise to do "anything" to rebuild the M, we would be receiving the final D decree shortly.<p>The only reason I gave him a chance was because he confessed and apologized and seemed genuinely remorseful at that time. My ex-H to this day hasn't acknowledged his A despite all the evidence and witnesses, much less apologized for ANYTHING he ever did to me.<p>I won't do CPR next time, I'll just pronounce the M dead and pull the plug.

Hi there all,<p>At 1.5 years from d-day #1 (almost to the day) and more than 17 months of recovery, there are days when I am still not sure I am now aiming for recovery. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If my H were to have another A, I would most definitely NOT aim for recovery. I would ask him to leave immediately; and if he did not, I would get movers in to pack his stuff, get a locksmith to change the locks on the doors, get a divorce petition drafted and filed, and send it all to him wherever he might be, along with a separation agreement with a 'sign here' flag.<p>But, hey, that's just me.

br...So if he did it again...he'd be doing it with full knowledge of exactly what kind of hurt he'd be causing me. It would also indicate to me, after all this work on rebuilding trust, that there was no way to trust him.<p>snl...Not to downplay any hurt hurts, but that is not really the point IMO, and affairs aren't about the bs (or their hurt) anyways usually. It is the trust issue that is key IMO... the successful intimate human relationship we call marriage has a foundation built on trust, without it love cannot exist, and without love, intimacy does not exist....only accomodation/settleing are possible.<p>Because human relationships are poorly understood by most of us when we marry, it is safe to say we are all pretty vulnerable to an affair if a marriage is not working (and studies seem to support that)...but once a part of an affair (ws or bs) and become educated (although many don't and sweep it under the rug, go into denial, insuring the marriage will never work, know people who have lived decades being faithful but marriage remains dead) anyways if one does the work to understand what happened, and a ws wanders again, there is no point in remaining married, or trying anything....they have revealed (for both of you) the marriage is never going to work, (that applies to both kinds, denial recoveries, where no work was ever done.... and ecducated recoveries, where all the marital issues were supposedly resolved)...and also revealed they can never be trusted (for whatever reason), and if can never be trusted, no reason to be married.... unless you just fear being alone and will settle for what you got as better than nothing.<p>Those who struggle with the committment for life thing are essentially co-dependents, it is an illogical position, one cannot make a committment to something that does not exist. A multiple wanderer ends the marriage, it does not exist except on paper, and has nothing to do with marital love, is essentially a skewed pride.... the psychology of intimacy is permanently destroyed, and God Himself says it is over....you can re-commit (to ws) after each time, and remarry starting a new committment, but why would one do so? We should probably amend the laws such that infidelity means automatic divorce, and people have to remarry to start the marriage again, after a waiting period of 1 year. That would go a long ways towards breaking up all these co-dependentcies.<p>Obviously I am not the bs, but because of how I do things, I try to consider all the positions, and have talked with bs about this (usually after she talks about doing the same thing, wandering). When she asks how I would feel, I tell her I may or may not be angry or hurt, but that I wouldn't try, I would just divorce immediately...IMO any marriage that sustains 2 or more affairs, is done, finished, there is absolutely no reason to restore it.... and those who do will come to regret it eventually, and/or have very shallow marriages.....why? Cause there can never be any trust.....you only get one shot at tbis in a marriage, and can recover trust...only one.<p>As for ons type affair, sex only, I doubt I'd try to restore after even one, why? The spouse has not only trust issues, but is revealed as a sexual predator as well (that is what meaningless sex is about, preying on someone). I would have no interest in their personal healing, or being married to them, no matter how much I liked em otherwise, once that mask has been lifted, there is no going back...and since personality disorders are pretty much permanent, is unlikely they will ever really be marriage material anyways.<p>What I see driving many bs to accept 2 and more affairs is fear of starting over, so they play all sorts of mindgames (denial, committment, take fault, etc.) with themselves to avoid the fundamental truth, their spouse will never be trustworthy, and the marriage will never be a safe/nurturing place....only a quid pro quo (at best, and more often than not is an emotionally neglectful or abusive place as well). Many of these bs are trapped by circumstances, or their own dependentcies, we need to provide resources to help such folks leave these dysfunctional, unhealthy relationships.

Easy answer...nope.

If your WS were to have another A, and knowing what you now know, would you still aim for recovery?<p>Depends on the circumstances. If it was a ONS that could be attributed to alcohol, I would still aim for recovery. If it was the same OM or a new OM and it took the same route that the first A did, not likely. I would definately move to a full on plan b just to give me the time to know for sure that I wanted a divorce then I would likely go that direction.<p>Fool me once,..... fool me twice.....

(Yep for those of you not in recovery yet....you thought the affair was bad...recovery is worse).<p>
Hehehehe, where were you when I began my recovery to tell me this! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] The first few weeks of my recovery have definately been more painful.

Hmmm, two years ago, before I knew about OM1 I would have said, "NO WAY."<p>Now that I am living it, I am still working toward rebuilding our marriage. I'm really trying to keep the family together for the kids. However, what I've learned over the last couple of months about OM2 and OM3 has made my desire to move forward with our relationship a daily struggle. Other lies about time and money are also becoming issues that go beyond just affecting me but now really impacting the family.<p>It may sound screwed up but my W doesn't think I know about OM2 yet. She's only recently reveal information about OM3 to me (WW: "I had a crush. We shared only a kiss.") She claims that there is nothing between her and OM3 now (except he is her boss), she continues the secret relationship with OM2. I think that recovery will be easier if my W admits to what is going to rather than forcing it out of her with the evidence that I have. She didn't with OM1 until confronted with 'the letter'. Now it appears that she found comfort in OM2 just months after OM1 left the country. Even more screwed up is that my W maintained some phone contact with OM1 for quite a while, even during the time now with OM2.<p>I feel like counseling and my faith are still giving me hope (and people on this forum). But look at the alternative. If I don't give all I can to rebuild this marriage, this family, what message does that send to our children? I want to be able to look back in 10 years and have no regrets about my effort. I'm not at a point yet where I feel that I've done all I can. But, this can't go on forever....I'm just using a calendar to measure time rather than an egg timer.<p>HoFS<p>[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</p>

Once, and you can accept that your WS is human and made a huge mistake,especially if they are repentant. Twice and it's a pattern that indicates there's a lot more than a simple mistake there that needs remediating. Me, no way, I will not go there again in this lifetime.

I don't think so, <p>its a shame cause I already have a plan<p>in the passed I have always screamed "Affair, Affair" and told friends and family. I put him out immediately. He looks like the bad guy and trys desparately to restore our marriage (which will restore his image)<p>IF there is a next time, I would take the rap. I wouldn't tell anyone "why" were separating. Tell him I know, work with him to move out in his time. The bottom line is I would just want out so bad I would do just about anything. I would even air my dirty laundry and blame it on me being molested as a child - I could no longer perform for my H - pretty sick hugh. I would just be willing to do anything to get him out of my life. My goal would not be to get remarried ever so I would be in no hurry to put him out or file for divorce. Sometimes, I think of it as freedom from the fear of betrayal again. <p>Here is what I wrote on the EN board the other day which sums up where I am:<p>I am a success story.<p>What I have come out of rock bottom knowing is that it was all worth it for the person I am now. With or without my H I am totally complete and satisfied. That healthy mindset empowers me to set appropriate boundaries in my marriage and not settle for less than what I am worth.<p>Even if we divorce 10 years from now I will not look back and say I wasted my life. Because I like who I have become. The icing on the cake is that my marriage is becoming better but it does not determine my success in life.

H & I agreed this is the last chance. I will put forth all my effort for a successful marriage, but I don't have a Plan A left in me.

NO.

Well it looks like most of the responses here are no, and I can't say I blame anyone for that.<p>As someone who has been betrayed twice, I can say that the first time it happened 11 years ago I said exactly the same thing. However, when it happened again 9 years later, I found myself still wanting to recover.<p>I guess you never really know what you are going to do until you are actually put in that situation.<p>-HD

I also have to say NO! If my husband has not learned from this experience, he has no second chance!! If there is a second time, there would also be a third!!<p>Le